Secrets revealed! A Marth Pivoting tutorial.

[AustinRC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuCCmymFpMU&feature=youtu.be

Here it is guys. Hope you enjoy it! If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

 

[PCwizCube]

This tutorial is awesome, thanks a lot!

 

[BTmoney]

If those kill percents are inescapable holy **** I'm playing Marth again

Edit: lmao should watched the whole thing, I got too excited. But can this be mixed up with b/dthrow? Because it becomes a true 50/50 assuming they react and pick a DI

 

[AustinRC]

It's actually more than just a 50/50 Ado. DI'ing diagonally down and away as puff can get away from all pivot fsmash's. HOWEVER Marth actually has two different punish's he can do when she is doing that. One is to be revealed soon by Kadano and the other you can actually back throw her into full hop uair. Which kills at really high percents.

 

[darkatma]

Good stuff Austin, nice to see you still active

 

[AustinRC]

Been doing nothing but improving since Apex my man. Texas is going to turn some heads again here soon.

 

[Kadano]

Dang. Now you got this up I really have to finish those DI punish illustrations. I guess I’ll have it done during the course of the day.

Turned out really great! Those uairs to pivot tipper look so slick.

 

[BTmoney]

Lol imagine if all those times your opponent lived to 200% never happened again and Marth had Fox like kill power and set ups

 

[-Ran]

I love you.

 

[Xyzz]

I think I will join the above poster in declaring my love for you... that shield pivoting thing is way too good, and I never knew about it (I begin to doubt there will ever be a day, when I know everything I'd like to know about this game :D).

 

[strawhats]

this is just too pure for words. THANK YOU ARC!

 

[Bones0]

I hate to be the negative Nancy, but there were a few things wrong.

"Roll Dodge: Held the direction stick too long."

This isn't true. You can hold the stick left or right as long as you want after shield stopping. If you roll, it means you pressed shield BEFORE you input left or right on the stick.

Shield stop grabs are no better at grabbing Puff's aerials than simple JC grabs.


Good vid overall though. I haven't tried pivoting for platform tippers, and empty pivots look sexy too. I'll have to mess around with that.

 

[AustinRC]

Hm.... You positive about that? I'm fairly certain either would cause a roll dodge. Also I recommend people use shield stop grabs because it is easier overall to do at least in my opinion. Thanks for the feed back, it's always appreciated.

 

[SUNG666]

I hate to be the negative Nancy, but there were a few things wrong.

"Roll Dodge: Held the direction stick too long."

This isn't true. You can hold the stick left or right as long as you want after shield stopping. If you roll, it means you pressed shield BEFORE you input left or right on the stick.
.

You will roll if you press shield IMMEDIATELY after inputting dash left/right

 

[Xyzz]

Also I recommend people use shield stop grabs because it is easier overall to do at least in my opinion.

Which is precisely why I was so happy that you introduced this to me... So easy that it's really doable to be super consistent with it (which is a must have for any technique that I'll use in serious matches... I really hate losses to technical flubs :D).
It is fast enough to get that early 20s of Marth's chaingrab on spacies done, right? (Since you mention the "true"/"classical" pivot being the fastest way... ).

 

[Beat!]

Eh, I'd advice against using it for chaingrabs. The timing's pretty damn tight already if the spacie knows what they're doing. I don't think you can afford to waste even a couple of extra frames (would certainly welcome frame data that proves me wrong, though).

Aside from that, shield pivoting is great. I use it a decent amount for both grabs and aerials.


This is a great guide. I especially like the part about dash pivot fsmash on Puff, because I've been advocating that for so long now, but this seems to have caught peoples' attention way better than I ever did.

 

[kd-]

I think I remember seeing you post in the Marth Ask thread saying you were thinking of making a pivot tutorial but weren't sure if it was worth it. We all said it was a good idea and asked you to go through with it.

This video is amazing, well worth the time you put into it. Great job dude

 

[Bones0]

Hm.... You positive about that? I'm fairly certain either would cause a roll dodge. Also I recommend people use shield stop grabs because it is easier overall to do at least in my opinion. Thanks for the feed back, it's always appreciated.

Yeah, I'm sure. I dash into shield stops and keep it tilted in the same direction all the time when I want to shield drop. I definitely agree with you that shield pivoting grabs can mostly replace actual pivots to good effect, and maybe that small amount of momentum cancelling really does help to grab people out of attacks better. It just seemed a bit misleading to me when I watched the video. Maybe other people inferred what you actually meant. Like I said, still a great video either way. The main thing is to inspire people to actually use it. Most people won't try to learn anything that top players aren't using, so a video like this that shows the techniques' capabilities really helps to promote that metagame development.

Random question: Have you noticed any situations where pivot dsmash could be of some use? Perhaps as a dthrow followup? It'd be pretty sick. lol

You will roll if you press shield IMMEDIATELY after inputting dash left/right

Define "immediately". If you press them on the same frame, I'm sure you roll, and I wouldn't be surprised if the control stick had some sort of 3-frame buffer for rolls just like fsmashes that lets you roll even if you press the trigger a few frames after dashing. Either way, the duration of your control stick press is irrelevant. It's all in the timing.

I decided to actually test this (without AR or Dolphin, mind you). If I'm not mistaken, I was right about there being a buffer. If you press the trigger on the same frame as the dash or the two frames after, you will roll EVEN if you let go of the stick.

 

[Kadano]

I decided to actually test this (without AR or Dolphin, mind you). If I'm not mistaken, I was right about there being a buffer. If you press the trigger on the same frame as the dash or the two frames after, you will roll EVEN if you let go of the stick.

It’s actually only a 2 frame window, not 3. If you press L/R on (after) frame 3 of your dash, your shield will be delayed for one frame and you won’t roll unless you re-press the direction. (It will be just as if you had pressed L/R on frame 4)

 

[Bones0]

It’s actually only a 2 frame window, not 3. If you press L/R on (after) frame 3 of your dash, your shield will be delayed for one frame and you won’t roll unless you re-press the direction. (It will be just as if you had pressed L/R on frame 4)

That's what I said though. Shielding on frames 1 and 2 of your dash result in a roll in addition to shielding on the same frame as the dash input (frame 0). That's a 3-frame window, isn't it? Actually, I guess it just depends on whether you consider that a buffer or not, which I guess it isn't so nvm. Semantics anyway. Important thing is that holding the stick isn't the problem, and you have to be careful about shielding too early after initiating a dash or you will roll.

 

[Kadano]

That's a 3-frame window, isn't it?

I’m not sure, haha. If you press left/right and L/R at the same frame, your shield will come out, but you won’t roll. You can roll out of a dash and you can roll out of a shield, but you can’t roll directly from neutral stand. That’s very different from fsmashing where ←→ and A at the same frame will trigger.

 

[Bones0]

I’m not sure, haha. If you press left/right and L/R at the same frame, your shield will come out, but you won’t roll. You can roll out of a dash and you can roll out of a shield, but you can’t roll directly from neutral stand. That’s very different from fsmashing where ←→ and A at the same frame will trigger.

I pressed start, held R and right on the control stick, unpaused, and I rolled. I didn't bother going into Slo-mo Melee, but it certainly seemed like I was rolling directly from neutral without any shield frames.

 

[AustinRC]

@Bones0 - down throw to turn around dsmash works till 30 percent if they DI down and away.

 

[Bones0]

@Bones0 - down throw to turn around dsmash works till 30 percent if they DI down and away.

On who? Just random people? I'm guessing they have to not tech or be off stage? I think the next time I catch a Peach doing an awful dash attack, I'm going to punish with pivot dsmash. lol I can actually do it pretty consistently. I had no idea pivot fsmashes out of DDing was 1 frame. I thought it was still 3.

 

[AustinRC]

Sorry works on puff. She can't tech it either it's an actual combo

 

[Bones0]

This is on Shoryuken's home page.

 

[Beat!]

Holy crap, it really is.

 

[AppleAppleAZ]

Can pivoting be used to get guaranteed kills on Nana?

 

[AustinRC]

You don't really need it because nana doesn't DI. But yes fthrow pivot fsmash works on ice climbers really well.

 

[Tarv]

This was extremely helpful. Thank you for making this.

 

[Nimbus]

This has been the bane of my gameplay for a loooonnnnngggggg time. Thanks for this!

 

[BTmoney]

You don't really need it because nana doesn't DI. But yes fthrow pivot fsmash works on ice climbers really well.

Can we talk about why I can't do this more than like 25% of the time? If there is a 3 frame window I don't understand why I can't do this lol

 

[SUNG666]

It's a 1 frame window

It's only a 3 frame window from standing position into dash f smash

 

[Bones0]

I'm sure it's been clarified before, but does it matter at all if you use the A button vs. the C-stick? It just seems so easy to do dash back pivot fsmashes with A that I have a hard time believing that is 1 frame the same as other pivot smashes.

 

[4 Aces]

Nice video.

So to clarify, the pivot shield stop turn-around grab thing is cool because it's easier than classic pivot grab? And it stops momentum better slightly?

 

[Bones0]

Nice video.

So to clarify, the pivot shield stop turn-around grab thing is cool because it's easier than classic pivot grab? And it stops momentum better slightly?

Shield stopping is a few frames slower than pivot grabbing since you can't shield on the first 3 frames you input the dash to turnaround (or else you'll roll), but it completely stops your momentum like a pivot without having to grab exactly on the turnaround frame. It also allows you to dash back in slightly before stopping your momentum and grabbing whereas pivot grabs can only be done at the pivot area of your dash dance (obviously lol).

 

[atangerine]

Can someone tell me the pivot's uses? I don't see its usefulness when compared with wavedashing.

 

[Xyzz]

Pivoting is probably the fastest way to move to a spot within the distance before your dash turns into a run (once you want to go that far, you can can crouch to cancel the run, or wavedash if that's the better option for your character / the situation), and immediately attack from there.

E.g. Marth f throws a Jigglypuff, and it ends up a bit outside of his f smash range, so he can't just throw that move out. Walking might be too slow, and wave-dashing would take to long (jumpstart, airdodge ending lag, these things add up ), but by dashing forward and then pivoting a fsmash he can get get the follow up. Fun times! (:

 

[atangerine]

Pivoting is probably the fastest way to move to a spot within the distance before your dash turns into a run (once you want to go that far, you can can crouch to cancel the run, or wavedash if that's the better option for your character / the situation), and immediately attack from there.

E.g. Marth f throws a Jigglypuff, and it ends up a bit outside of his f smash range, so he can't just throw that move out. Walking might be too slow, and wave-dashing would take to long (jumpstart, airdodge ending lag, these things add up ), but by dashing forward and then pivoting a fsmash he can get get the follow up. Fun times! (:

Thanks!

 

[Praxis]

Woah. This is what my new Melee Marth was missing. I was wondering why I felt like I couldn't move like the Marth's in videos. Thanks!