SD Remix - 3.3 Full with Slippi Rollback Released!

[Quillion]

Back from Xanadu!
Had a little sign up that gave basic info as to what it is.

Unfortunately, since the people managing the tournament didn't see my post in the Facebook group, I couldn't get any better placement for the setup than in the back corner of the room.

Regardless, some groups of people tried it and I could tell they were having fun with it. It was used for nearly the whole time I was there.

Did they have any desire to put it on their Wiis, too? That's the important part.

 

[chetchaka]

If I use a 1.02 Melee ISO and patch that with SD Remix, does it effectively become a v1.00 ISO? Or does it stay at v1.02? I'd like to know for the purpose of using cheats.

 

[CeLL]

This isn't really SDR related, but where is the documentation for the frame speed modifier or whatever it's called that speeds up or slows down animations? (I'm pretty sure that's what I mean)

 

[Ripple]

http://smashboards.com/threads/how-...iers-via-asm-coding-courtesy-of-magus.334480/

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Hey! The SD Remix site is nearly finished. I need a little bit of help with the design though, especially the background image. Send me a pm if you think you can help.

 

[_glook]

So Dolphin recently put in an improvement to matchmaking for netplay: https://dolphin-emu.org/blog/2015/03/01/dolphin-progress-report-february-2015/

It's in the section labelled "4.0-5681 - Implement UDP Traversal Server for Netplay by Ziek". The short of it is, they seem to have implemented a matchmaking service for Dolphin in the latest development build. My question is, does the fact that SD Remix shares the same game ID with Melee 1.0 mess this up in any way? Should the ones who want to play online choose another game ID to use? If the latter, we'd have to all use the same game ID, won't we?

 

[SinsOfApathy]

So Dolphin recently put in an improvement to matchmaking for netplay: https://dolphin-emu.org/blog/2015/03/01/dolphin-progress-report-february-2015/

It's in the section labelled "4.0-5681 - Implement UDP Traversal Server for Netplay by Ziek". The short of it is, they seem to have implemented a matchmaking service for Dolphin in the latest development build. My question is, does the fact that SD Remix shares the same game ID with Melee 1.0 mess this up in any way? Should the ones who want to play online choose another game ID to use? If the latter, we'd have to all use the same game ID, won't we?

You'll desync if the other person isn't aware of the version you're using or cheats you have enabled. It's non-issue if you've made the other person aware of the version you're using, which is why Dolphin netplay lobbies and Anther's Ladder have a chatroom in the first place.

I honestly don't remember if Netplay just uses the GameID when initializing the game on the other person's end. It probably does. If that's the case, you may init their vanilla game instead of their SDR version if the other one is visible in Dolphin, which will cause desync.

 

[_glook]

You'll desync if the other person isn't aware of the version you're using or cheats you have enabled. It's non-issue if you've made the other person aware of the version you're using, which is why Dolphin netplay lobbies and Anther's Ladder have a chatroom in the first place.

I honestly don't remember if Netplay just uses the GameID when initializing the game on the other person's end. It probably does. If that's the case, you may init their vanilla game instead of their SDR version if the other one is visible in Dolphin, which will cause desync.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Maybe it would be good for people who play SD Remix to adopt a unique game ID (unused by other games)? Maybe something like GALE99? I'd love to be able to go to Dolphin or Anther (if they ever get SD Remix in the mix) online with folks, and I think it would help increase the popularity and the size of the community to the point where there may be enough people interested where physical events are more viable. Right now, it's tough for people to play others because (a) hacking of Wiis and (b) getting people interested in a non-standard Melee to play at events. Having a ready service to allow people to play each other without much work could keep people's interest and allow a place online for interested people for a playing community to develop.

Plus, I'm itching to play people, even if it's with netlag.

 

[sdremix_troubleshooter]

If you have the technical know-how to change the title ID (it's extremely easy!), I recommend changing it to MSDR01.

If there is significant interest, this title ID change will be included in SDR "3.1.1" which is just minor feature adjustments + migrating the game to Melee 1.02.

 

[_Snover_]

Did they have any desire to put it on their Wiis, too? That's the important part.

To be honest, not really. But I could be wrong. I didn't ask them about that in particular, but they did say they were interested.

 

[_glook]

If you have the technical know-how to change the title ID (it's extremely easy!), I recommend changing it to MSDR01.

If there is significant interest, this title ID change will be included in SDR "3.1.1" which is just minor feature adjustments + migrating the game to Melee 1.02.

I would love that; having the official iso have the code will go a long way to make the game more netplay freindly. I'll go ahead and do that on my own at some point and post the Start.dol here to get us started. I'll also try it out on DIOS MIOS to see if there's any issues with that (like the title being all weird).

To be honest, not really. But I could be wrong. I didn't ask them about that in particular, but they did say they were interested.

I was thinking for myself at all future SD Remix tournaments that I host, at the "SD Remix learning center" also have a place where people can get their Wii's hacked or at least walked through getting their Wii's hacked, with all the tools ready. May work, may not, but it's a thought.

 

[SinsOfApathy]

Changing the ID is literally a matter of adjusting the first few bytes of ASCII in the ISO/DOL with a hex editor. The problem is, that the other party has to have that as well, and without an official release doing it, you're working with a round-a-bout method that may as well be only pointing Dolphin to the SDR directory.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

The official SD Remix site has been launched:

http://sdremix.com/

If you wish to help collaborate or design the site, please pm me here on Smashboards

-Novi

 

[Quillion]

The official SD Remix site has been launched:

http://sdremix.com/

If you wish to help collaborate or design the site, please pm me here on Smashboards

-Novi

I see you just copypasta'd Vietgeek's blog to the character section.

How about you actually add the character change videos that glook has made so far?

 

[_glook]

I see you just copypasta'd Vietgeek's blog to the character section.

How about you actually add the character change videos that glook has made so far?

There's a link on the site to my videos in the "Links" section. I'm pretty sure Vietgeek has had a hand in the site's creation, because I found out about it from the SD Remix facebook page. They also link to my changelist on each of the character pages, which have a link to the character specific video, so it's all there.

The official SD Remix site has been launched:

http://sdremix.com/

If you wish to help collaborate or design the site, please pm me here on Smashboards

-Novi

This looks really nice! It's nice and organized.

 

[Quillion]

There's a link on the site to my videos in the "Links" section. I'm pretty sure Vietgeek has had a hand in the site's creation, because I found out about it from the SD Remix facebook page. They also link to my changelist on each of the character pages, which have a link to the character specific video, so it's all there.

It just doesn't feel like it's complete when it's just linking to other sites and copy-pasting things from other sites.

 

[sdremix_troubleshooter]

The website is very much still in its infancy, so please do make suggestions.

The development blog will cease to exist within the next few days. Any new entries will be posted on the official website. Older posts have already been mirrored so that is not a concern.

 

[_Snover_]

Noticed something on the site: The Roy link on the "Characters" page links to the wrong page.

It links to http://sdremix.com/characters/roy-2/ which is a 404 error instead of the intended page: http://sdremix.com/characters/roy/

I really like the site though! Great job with it!

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

It just doesn't feel like it's complete when it's just linking to other sites and copy-pasting things from other sites.

I understand and agree. I tried various solutions but I was unable to re-create the tables on Glook's page and taking a screenshot of them did not work, so I was left with this solution. Perhaps in due time I will find a more elegant solution to implement everything on the same site, as that would be the best option. I am working with Felipe (The Original Designer of the SD Remix logo) and the site's design may change in the future still. Thank you for your comments, and as Vietgeek said, please continue giving suggestions as the site is brand new and was indeed quite rushed.

 

[_glook]

I understand and agree. I tried various solutions but I was unable to re-create the tables on Glook's page and taking a screenshot of them did not work, so I was left with this solution. Perhaps in due time I will find a more elegant solution to implement everything on the same site, as that would be the best option. I am working with Felipe (The Original Designer of the SD Remix logo) and the site's design may change in the future still. Thank you for your comments, and as Vietgeek said, please continue giving suggestions as the site is brand new and was indeed quite rushed.

If you need some help with it, let me know. I have some experience with front end work, so I might be able to help.

 

[john!]

this looks amazing.

minor complaint: it appears that the PS transformations were intentionally left in... why is that?

 

[MudkipUniverse]

really i don't think that PS transformations are too bad, except for maybe the rock transformation

 

[_glook]

really i don't think that PS transformations are too bad, except for maybe the rock transformation

I agree, though I'm not overly fond of the tree transformation either (though it's the rock one that's the worst).

 

[sdremix_troubleshooter]

If I use a 1.02 Melee ISO and patch that with SD Remix, does it effectively become a v1.00 ISO? Or does it stay at v1.02? I'd like to know for the purpose of using cheats.

It effectively becomes a 1.00 ISO for now.

 

[_glook]

Link Overview:

There were a ton of inaccuracies in my changelist, so I'm not going to list them here, as that would take too long, and also I've forgotten most of them.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

Great video! Really demonstrates the changes clearly, I enjoyed watching it.

Minor nitpick, at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtarQ8KYonI&t=695

It seems that the images are reversed. Does not matter though

E:

Man I have to say I really love SD Remix Link. I think I am going to main him

E2:

Posted on the Blog

http://sdremix.com/2015/03/15/video-link-overview-sd-remix-3-1/

 

[_glook]

Great video! Really demonstrates the changes clearly, I enjoyed watching it.

Minor nitpick, at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtarQ8KYonI&t=695

It seems that the images are reversed. Does not matter though

E:

Man I have to say I really love SD Remix Link. I think I am going to main him

E2:

Posted on the Blog

http://sdremix.com/2015/03/15/video-link-overview-sd-remix-3-1/

Thanks for the catch. That's very strange, I think there's another one that's swapped too.

Edit: Nope, despite it being in the same reel as two others, that's the only one with the swapped image. I tested to make sure SD Remix actually had increased damage and it turns out it does, so I dunno how that happened.

 

[john!]

it seems like changing the wavedash timing (among other things) would throw off current link players. IMO you should try to keep the same "feel" of the character from vanilla melee, including muscle memory.

 

[_glook]

it seems like changing the wavedash timing (among other things) would throw off current link players. IMO you should try to keep the same "feel" of the character from vanilla melee, including muscle memory.

I actually didn't notice a timing difference at all. I can pretty much switch from Melee to SD Remix without it messing up my wavedash.

However, I HAVE attempted in Melee to grab a Fox off the right side of Yoshi's Story as he was recovering in tournament. The other guy was just like, "[lol] Uh... what?" And internally I was thinking, "God damnit, this isn't SD Remix."

(Edit: It might also help that I've gotten used to various wavedash timings over the years by playing other characters.)

 

[_Snover_]

@ _glook same thing happens to me. I've tried to PK Flash edgeguard people before I remembered that it moves at the speed of molasses in vMelee. Same thing with Ness's dair and PK Fire.

 

[_glook]

@ _glook same thing happens to me. I've tried to PK Flash edgeguard people before I remembered that it moves at the speed of molasses in vMelee. Same thing with Ness's dair and PK Fire.

Yeah! Something that I've also done in tournament is use Link's upsmash and bow. Granted, sometimes it does work, but that just exacerbates the issue. It's pretty funny, actually, because all I can think is, "Man, that would've worked in SD Remix".

On regard to it being difficult to switch from Melee and SD Remix, something Brandandorf told me is that if you regularly play both, it eventually doesn't become an issue. He plays Melee and PM and playing one doesn't negatively effect either, even with the muscle memory stuff, because eventually you just put BOTH into your muscle memory and you can switch between Melee and SD Remix modes. I actually did ask him if the jump and landing lag changes to GDorf has messed up his wavedash timing and he just told me "No. It just feels better."

My two cents, playing SD Remix was like taking a weight off and being able to play freely. Playing like that made me more creative when going back to vMelee, so it's actually helped me, not hurt, for the most part. Even if the muscle memory difference did mess up my wavedash, I would prefer having the reduced frame for juming because it makes Link's wavedash so much better in SD Remix and it also makes his aerial game better too.

 

[Quillion]

So, I'd like to take up a Devil's Advocate position for the moment (as we're in Stage 1 of Fandom Life Cycle).

Why do all of you even play SD Remix? What's the point of it all? Melee's roster is actually very balanced, and we have more than half the roster being represented in top-level play, with even bottom-tier characters having dedicated players trying to find new ways to play with them. SD Remix actually devalues competitive play in this way, since there's no more excitement in seeing low-tier characters beat the best players with top-tier characters (see aMSa with Yoshi).

And @ Ripple and @ sdremix_troubleshooter , what's the point of you continuing to develop this game? The way running it works, there's no way to have the Wii patch it and you have to go through all of the trouble of setting up the Homebrew Channel, IOS236, and Dios Mios, and at all steps, it is very easy to accidentally brick your Wii and have to buy a new one.

Project M has taken what made Melee great and made it even better by adding things from Brawl, and because of the greater flexibility of Brawl's coding, it will be even greater than anything any team of Melee hackers can hope to achieve.

All in all, it just seems like all of you here just need to give up and accept both vMelee and PM.

[/devilsadvocate]

 

[Ripple]

what's the point of you continuing to develop this game?

because I feel like it

 

[_glook]

I think the answers to those questions are pretty ingrained into this thread. Just a couple of nitpicks, though, When you say it devalues competitive play, I think you mean that it deflates hype, which is a very different concept because competitive play is about the integrity of the meta-game, not excitement about specific matches.

Also, the last sentence seems more setting up of a strawman than a counter-argument. In fact, the whole tone seems to have that feel to it.

I think there are some counter points with varying degrees of validity that people make in general and that is:

- It's too hard to set up.
- There's not enough people who play it.
- Don't mess with Melee, I like it how it is. [This isn't a very strong argument, but it comes up often enough I feel I need to list it]
- Melee's too strong, people aren't going to want to play a mod because the focus is too strong on Melee. [Again, not particularly strong, but is another sentiment that comes up]
- There are 8 valid characters in the metagame and that's more than enough to make a game competitively viable [which is true]. If you add more to it, it just increases what people need to know. The current metagame is really deeply refined and engaging. This level of smash is possible because there's a focus on the top 8 [true only pretty recently] that allows people to progress much faster than they could if they had to deal with a lot more characters. If you increase the viable pool, that'll result in poorer play and less hype due to less focus. [The hype argument is tenuous, especially if you remember the smash scene for longer than 3 years ago]
- SDR and PM have similarities, and it's redundant to make another mod. [Again, not particularly strong, but it's another common sentiment]

Feel free to add any more, but those are the main ones I see.

 

[Quillion]

@ _glook : Hype is a form of value, isn't it?

 

[sdremix_troubleshooter]

The year is 19XX, Ness reigns supreme in the twilight zone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsvMHkcrqvU

 

[Stride]

The way running it works, there's no way to have the Wii patch it and you have to go through all of the trouble of setting up the Homebrew Channel, IOS236, and Dios Mios, and at all steps, it is very easy to accidentally brick your Wii and have to buy a new one.

In the UK many people already have their Wiis modded anyway in order to play Project M (I believe I'm correct in saying that PM is more popular here relative to other Smash games than perhaps anywhere else), the problem is that everyone's too busy playing Project M to bother with SD Remix so it doesn't really make a difference.

That said, I feel like more publicity could improve the situation a lot. Integration with 20XX should be a big deal.

 

[sdremix_troubleshooter]

If SD Remix were a business (or a product sold from a business), it would most certainly fail. It doesn't differentiate itself enough from the offerings vMelee or PM provide. It's very much 'stuck in the middle.' The most 'diehard' (subjective) of Melee players won't play the game as they are much too concerned with improving their skill in the real game - an admirable endeavor no less.

Likewise, players partial toward modded games already have PM. It has a vibrant community, large exposure, and ease of installation. I might also add that it is actually different enough from Melee that the two aren't comparable - so it carves out its own niche. PM feels nothing like Melee except maybe on a superficial level (yes it has wavedashes...and?) In fact, PM follows in the footsteps of official Smash games in that it provides a very unique experience from the other titles.

Honestly the only people "receptive" to SD Remix are Melee fans that are open to hacked games and also are very much in love with the Melee engine and Melee's design decisions. That sounds lovely and all, but in reality it is a very niche demographic.

But SD Remix isn't a business nor is it a consumer item. It is almost literally the hack job of a high schooler, created out of boredom and perhaps some genuine curiosity that has now faded with time.

As I've said many times in the past, the community has to decide what to do with this game. If it's not worth the time or effort, then let it die and move on. But only you can decide that, for yourself.

 

[_glook]

@ _glook : Hype is a form of value, isn't it?

Yes, hype has value, but you said it devalues competitive play, which is about the integrity of the metagame, not excitement about a match. They are related but not interchangeable.

Honestly the only people "receptive" to SD Remix are Melee fans that are open to hacked games and also are very much in love with the Melee engine and Melee's design decisions. That sounds lovely and all, but in reality it is a very niche demographic.

While I understand the sentiment, I'm not actually sure it's all that niche. Sure the diehards are far and few between but it is generally a pretty ideal thing to have Melee with better balance and I think even people who fall into the category of wanting to improve skill in the real game will give SDR a solid shot if there's actual paid tournaments they can attend (know of one example personally). One way to think about SDR is that it's Melee with some of its full potential unlocked, where all characters are as fun to play as the top tiers are, even at a non-competitive level (though it's less appreciated in casual domains). I don't think this is particularly niche, especially when you see the attention it gets at a tournament. There are exceptions, but I'd say many of the people who show dislike toward the game typically don't understand what it's going for (which doesn't just require playing to understand but playing with knowledge of what exactly changed and the implications thereof) or see it as some sort of threat to Melee and have an emotional reaction to it as a result.

 

[_glook]

By the way, does anyone else know of footage that's been taken of SDR 3.1 with Pikachu, Yoshi, and DK? The only Pikachu stuff I could find was from SDR 1.0 and Yoshi and DK seem to have never been played in SDR, according to the internet video collection.