Samus (Ftilt)- Weekly Move Analysis

[Los4Muros]

I read this type of post on a spanish forum for Marvel vs. Capcom. I was very happy with the results after the project was completed and I'm hoping we can do the same here for Samus. Basically, every week we talk about a different move we can analyse and learn about. Each week we pick a move, talk about it's good points, it's disadvantages and mostly every use we can think of for it. We try to put it in practice and keep in conversation what we learned from it.

Week 1 (Dec 22 - Dec 29 2014) Utilt
I wanted to begin with Utilt for this week. I haven't seen many use it in gameplay videos as much as it should. The move in my opinion is great. It has great knockback, great for covering aerials. Also, when covering edges, it can kill an enemy if damage is high. If if the right position it has an interesting meteor effect (I think it's called that way) which will put the opponent in a very difficult position to recover from if hit with it. It can hit with a beautiful 13% or a 12% if aired (awesome for a tilt). Sometimes it's a good option for rollers since it has a wider hitbox than Dtilt. Also if the damage is enough and you land a hit, Utilt leaves a setup for some aerial followups. The biggest problem's it hits on frame 15. The only attack slower than that is the horrible Dair. The situations in which it can be used aren't often (at least without compromise). If the attack is dodged or blocked, a punish is certain to come. I mainly use it to cover edges every now and then. I don't know why people don't use it that much. Maybe they just don't know the good advantages this move offers. Because I don't really know how well it's priority is. Or maybe I'm missing something out and I'm the one using it too much.

Week 2 (Dec 30 - Jan 6 2015) Ftilt

This time, let's talk about the Ftilt. I chose this move because we haven't spoken in other threads too much about it and I think it's something we should be checking out since in this Smash Bros. we can set the angles of the hitbox into three different locations and few of us have put this into use. These positions would be high (7%), normal (6%) and low (7%). The move hits on frame 8.0 and finishes at frame 11.0. Since Jab hits on frame 3.0 and Dtilt hits on frame 6.0, Ftilt would be Samus' third quickest ground move. The ending lag is also few and again only Jab and Dtilt overcome it.

Advantages:
I think the best use you can give Ftilt is interruption. It has a decent priority so sometimes you'll find it easier to interrupt combos or followups that Jab can't keep up with (without mentioning the good damage % difference). Dtilt is powerless against aerials, yet Ftilt covers her front against airbornes pretty well. After a perfect shield, Ftilt is great for punishing since it's speed is pretty decent. I haven't found many combos with it, but I sometimes follow it up with a Dtilt.

Disadvantages:
*Honestly, Dtilt is a much better options for most cases. If you can should between both moves, go for the Dtilt since it has setup for aerials, more damage, hits faster, less ending lag, and more vertical knockback (Is it called that?). I only go for the Ftilt if the opponent is airborne.
*The manipulation of the angles is hard enough to do (specially in the 3DS version), yet the difference is minimal and only useful for rare cases.
*Tipping the move only adds a pitiful 1% of additional damage and I'm not sure if it adds knockback (I'm guessing it does).

___________________________________________________________________________________
Anyway, I hope we can analyse this move this week and keep this a project to study a bit better what Samus' moves have to offer.

 

[Afro Smash]

Yeah I really like Up Tilt for edge guarding, particularly vs characters that dont sweetspot ledge easily such as pit, and non hitbox recovery such as villagers. P good vs characters approaching from the air too, though it can be difficult to time.

I like it on stage too however I find the spike is often accidentally tech'd, most likely by the opponent shielding just too late and then they get to roll away for free, those lucky swines

 

[Tumultus]

There's a misconception that I've seen often; the attack does NOT meteor smash airborne opponents. When you use it on an opponent who is coming back to the stage, the attack never smacks them downward, ever. I've seen people claim it does but it is not true. Capt. Falcon's u-tilt is nearly identical and that one DOES meteor smash.

The only time there's a meteor smash effect on the Samus u-tilt is when the opponent is already on the ground. It's a little weird, and may be tech'd as the previous poster has said.

Overall it's one of Samus' better moves, good option for when your opponent is coming from above. When sweetspotted it has great horizontal knockback, the move has landed me many kills this way. Great to use when an opponent is returning to the stage, if you time it right you will find great success.

 

[Rohins]

Since it hits below the edge it's nice to use after you edge trump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyDcopwlWjc#t=1m10s

If we can get the timing right we might be able to take advantage of "ledge snap vulnerability."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wpax41DC_Y

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

Yeah I really like Up Tilt for edge guarding, particularly vs characters that dont sweetspot ledge easily such as pit, and non hitbox recovery such as villagers. P good vs characters approaching from the air too, though it can be difficult to time.

I like it on stage too however I find the spike is often accidentally tech'd, most likely by the opponent shielding just too late and then they get to roll away for free, those lucky swines

Those accidental techers are THE WORST

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

Since it hits below the edge it's nice to use after you edge trump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyDcopwlWjc#t=1m10s

If we can get the timing right we might be able to take advantage of "ledge snap vulnerability."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wpax41DC_Y

Oh man. I never really considered exploiting ledge snap vulnerability with the attack. And now that I think about it, Falcon's must be terribly deadly.



Up tilt I don't use often except for dealing with people returning to the ledge or for dealing with rollers. On BF an up tilt can hit an opponent on the bottom platforms for a sneaky kill move. This move has high kill potential but its very tricky to land outside of what we've establishes to be it's fortes. Its anti air potential isn't the best as you'll get smacked although the resulting trade will usually be in your favor.

Utilt combos into screw attack much like Dair on grounded opponents. I've pulled off uptilt to dair to up B before but unsure if it's a true combo.

For a kill set up near the ledge at about 75, you can utilt to RAR Bair. It's hard to swetspot but is a true combo.

 

[Los4Muros]

There's a misconception that I've seen often; the attack does NOT meteor smash airborne opponents. When you use it on an opponent who is coming back to the stage, the attack never smacks them downward, ever. I've seen people claim it does but it is not true.

It doesn't have meteor effect? I'm pretty sure I've seen it... I think. Maybe you have to hit the opponent when below the edge to bring up the meteor effect?

Since it hits below the edge it's nice to use after you edge trump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyDcopwlWjc#t=1m10s

If we can get the timing right we might be able to take advantage of "ledge snap vulnerability."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wpax41DC_Y

I had noticed that it sometimes did hit edge trumps, but wasn't really sure about it and didn't want to post fake information. But I'm glad you cleared that up for me. This definitely has to be a buff to Samus' moveset. She has a good edge cover. Utilt keeps airbornes from recovering. Dtilt prevents edge trump. And Utilt again can hit an edge trump. I haven't tried it out yet, but if bombs can interrupt Up Bs, that would be another point in favor to Samus.

Oh man. I never really considered exploiting ledge snap vulnerability with the attack. And now that I think about it, Falcon's must be terribly deadly.

Up tilt I don't use often except for dealing with people returning to the ledge or for dealing with rollers. On BF an up tilt can hit am opponent on the top platform for a sneaky kill move. This move has high kill potential but it's very tricky to land outside of what we've establishes to be it's fortes. It's anti air potential isn't the best as you'll get smacked although the resulting trade will usually be in your favor.

Utilt combos into screw attack much like Dair on grounded opponents. I've pulled off uptilt to dair to up B before but unsure if it's a true combo.

For a kill set up near the ledge at about 75, you can utilt to RAR Bair. It's hard to swetspot but is a true combo.

I like to combo Utilt with a quick step to the front (just to have the correct position) and then Fsmash. If the percentage is high, it can lead to a good kill. I haven't used it that much with UpB or with Uair, but it might be a better option, specially if I have experience with Sheik and her crazy Uair combos. But try out Fsmash, it works pretty good for me.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Up tilt did not meteor airborne opponents in the previous games. While that might not be true for this game I haven't actually landed a meteor on an airborne opponent, so I don't think it does. I couldn't get it in training either.

 

[Tumultus]

It doesn't have meteor effect? I'm pretty sure I've seen it... I think. Maybe you have to hit the opponent when below the edge to bring up the meteor effect

Yeah, I'm like 99.99% sure it never meteors an opponent coming back to the stage. Anyone who is airborn gets hit with horizontal knock back from this move... Like I said, it only meteors opponents who are already on the ground. It has this effect where it smacks them against the floor. Trust me, I've tried it a thousand times it, it just doesn't happen. I hope I'm wrong but I've literally never seen it happen. Which sucks because Capt. Falcon can do it just fine.

 

[Mad Zephyr XXVII]

Up tilt is probably my favourite move to use. It is an excellent anti-air in my opinion and a great tool to apply pressure against someone coming back onto the stage. On the ground, I usually follow it with an Up Air and continue on with more aerial moves.

I love it.

 

[the.tok]

I like utilt cause it has a great hitbox, but I find that the startup is really slow, so you really have to anticipate to use it :-/
When landed on an opponent on the ground (and not teched) though, you have a lot of options to follow-up especially if they didn't expect it.

 

[Hapajin]

I like the move for reads and some edgeguards, but I think it's a bit too slow on startup to use more liberally which is kinda frustrating, because it could have a lot more spacing and kill potential if it was a bit faster.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

I like the move for reads and some edgeguards, but I think it's a bit too slow on startup to use more liberally which is kinda frustrating, because it could have a lot more spacing and kill potential if it was a bit faster.

My sentiment exactly.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

OP should update this thread. I vote this week's discussion be Dtilt.

 

[Los4Muros]

I was just about to update OP. Sorry, I already wrote about this week's move. And it's a move I wanted to talk about before going into Dtilt. Also, I'll be updating OP and add all the information you guys gave about Utilt.
______________________________________________________________________

Week 2 (Dec 30 - Jan 6 2015) Ftilt

This time, let's talk about the Ftilt. I chose this move because we haven't spoken in other threads too much about it and I think it's something we should be checking out since in this Smash Bros. we can set the angles of the hitbox into three different locations and few of us have put this into use. These positions would be high (7%), normal (6%) and low (7%). The move hits on frame 8.0 and finishes at frame 11.0. Since Jab hits on frame 3.0 and Dtilt hits on frame 6.0, Ftilt would be Samus' third quickest ground move. The ending lag is also few and again only Jab and Dtilt overcome it.

Advantages:
I think the best use you can give Ftilt is interruption. It has a decent priority so sometimes you'll find it easier to interrupt combos or followups that Jab can't keep up with (without mentioning the good damage % difference). Dtilt is powerless against aerials, yet Ftilt covers her front against airbornes pretty well. After a perfect shield, Ftilt is great for punishing since it's speed is pretty decent. I haven't found many combos with it, but I sometimes follow it up with a Dtilt.

Disadvantages:
*Honestly, Dtilt is a much better options for most cases. If you can should between both moves, go for the Dtilt since it has setup for aerials, more damage, hits faster, less ending lag, and more horizontal knockback (Is it called that?). I only go for the Ftilt if the opponent is airborne.
*The manipulation of the angles is hard enough to do (specially in the 3DS version), yet the difference is minimal and only useful for rare cases.
*Tipping the move only adds a pitiful 1% of additional damage and I'm not sure if it adds knockback (I'm guessing it does).

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

Ftilt is probably my most used move I always punish enemies from a safe distant with it. I use it as a spacing tool to keep my opponents at leg's length or to punish brash approaches.

Starting at 90%, an Ftilt can knock your oppoment prone. This is invauluable as a set up for your CS. Make sure you've been figuring out your opponenta habits when getting up off the floor and punish accordingly.

As means of interruption, I feel it's a little too laggy and mostly go for jabs with that purpose in mind. In the case of jab not having enough range then I'd rather just run and reset to neutral amd sneak in some charge for the CS.
I don't use the pivoted version at al since I prefer to use pivot smashes if I'm feinting a retreat.

As mentioned, the angled versions have different damages with the up angled ftilt doing the most. It may not be much but keep in mind that 3% could mean the difference betwen getting a KO or not.
The Down angled version does a small amount of damage more than the un angled variant but is mostly fpr situational uses such as against small characters, recovering characters, characters on the ledge who are vulnerable. If you've got the eye for it you can also dowm angle an Ftilt to hit prone characters as well.

 

[Los4Muros]

I think one thing I didn't write and is very important to note is that Ftilt is your best option to hit opponents at your back. I can't say for sure, but turning back and then using Dtilt must take extra time and frames. Ftilt is great to take your opponent off your back since it's instant.

 

[Rohins]

I think one thing I didn't write and is very important to note is that Ftilt is your best option to hit opponents at your back. I can't say for sure, but turning back and then using Dtilt must take extra time and frames. Ftilt is great to take your opponent off your back since it's instant.

Ftilt is just the easier to do when an opponent is at your back. Even if it takes 1 frame for the turn animation (which I don't think it does) ftilt hits on frame 8 and dtilt hits on frame 6 which would make dtilt come out a frame quicker than ftilt.

 

[the.tok]

ftilt is very easy to space. I know I'm using it a bit too much and should use dtilt in more situations, but it is very versatile, and when you're in a tense match, easiness of execution does count as you can be more consistent.

Pivoting into it is very easy too, to punish poor aerial approaches, retreat dash into ftilt pivot is very effective and puts them at good distance for a guessing game. If they do something stupid, CS can punish easily at this range too.

Its main advantage for me is that a large portion of the cast does not have a move that is as quick at this range. For sure a very good footsies tool. One of my favourite moves in Samus' arsenal.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

go for the Dtilt since it has setup for aerials, more damage, hits faster, less ending lag

Are you sure Dtilt has less endlag? I'm fairly sure it doesn't.

 

[Xyro77]

I highly doubt dtilt is the superior move for ANY situation. Speed, power, range.....etc

Ftilt>dtilt



Edit: I'm not saying you are wrong but PLEASE make sure this data is 110% accurate before posting. People come to the Samus boards for correct info and nothing less.

 

[Rohins]

I highly doubt dtilt is the superior move for ANY situation. Speed, power, range.....etc

Ftilt>dtilt



Edit: I'm not saying you are wrong but PLEASE make sure this data is 110% accurate before posting. People come to the Samus boards for correct info and nothing less.

Dtilt does come out faster than ftilt and the hitbox is disjointed. Can't speak for the hitbox size, we don't have any images of the hitboxes that I know of. I do know it hits lower than ftilt (hits people holding an edge, ftilt doesn't even if angled down). Ftilt at very low % leaves you open to counter attacks like Samus' jab, dtilt potentially leads to combos at those same %s depending on opponent DI. There are plenty of situations to use dtilt over ftilt.

I'm not positive, but I believe ftilt is less punishable than dtilt and fits MOST sitautions better than dtilt. We don't have info on IASA frames, but we can make a video to figure that out. I'll make it if no one else wants to do it.

Edit:

I don't know how so if you could that would be great

I'll work on it this weekend.

 

[Xyro77]

I don't know how so if you could that would be great

 

[Los4Muros]

Are you sure Dtilt has less endlag? I'm fairly sure it doesn't.

You're right on this. I've been watching Ftilt this week to learn as much as I can from it, I'm hoping you guys are too (kind of the purpose of all this) and yeah, Ftilt has a less ending lag than Dtilt. From Xyro's post we got some very useful information on the frame data for the moves. But this doesn't incluse how long a move lasts or the ending lag after the hitbox, only the frames in which the hitbox starts and ends. I'm new to the whole Smash Bros metagame, but I'm very familiar with the metagame of other fighting games like UMvC3 or USFIV (whole different style). Would it be possible to get the information on those frames or is that what Rohins means with IASA frames?

Ftilt is just the easier to do when an opponent is at your back. Even if it takes 1 frame for the turn animation (which I don't think it does) ftilt hits on frame 8 and dtilt hits on frame 6 which would make dtilt come out a frame quicker than ftilt.

I'm currently playing on the 3DS version so I'm a bit limited in movements, but I have been trying to hit opponents on my back with Dtilt instead of Ftilt but haven't gotten good results from it. Maybe I need more practice?

 

[Xyro77]

Please get wiiu version. It is superior in every way

 

[Los4Muros]

Please get wiiu version. It is superior in every way

I know. I already got myself a Wii U for Christmas, but living apart from my parents means I have to organize very well my money. The rent doesn't pay itself after all U__U So I'll have to wait until my next paycheck.
But I gotta say, I was a bit disappointed when I was told that the tilts weren't included in the 3DS version and that the control stick was used for the taunts instead of the tilts and that you couldn't configure this. But I think people judge the 3DS version without giving it a deep chance. It keeps up well in gameplay and controls. Frames work the same, UTilt and Dtilt are easy to handle. Ftilt is tricky, but with hard practice it becomes piece of pie and it hold the beautiful and exclusive Arena Ferox, Yoshi's Island, Jungle Japes and Brinstar. Perfect pivoting is possible in both consoles and I haven't seen any Samus advanced moves that can only be performed on the Wii U exclusively (yet). I can tell you the 3DS holds up to the Wii U version pretty well. Of course Wii U version is a lot better, but if anybody tells me they only practice on Smash for 3DS I'd gladly tell them to go for it.

 

[Los4Muros]

I know, I know. I need to update this video. Sadly, I'm a bit busy and if you have noticed, won't be able to post anything anytime soon. I'm very sorry, but it isn't just in this topic, it's in the whole forum. Anyway, what I can add is that Utilt does have meteor effect. It took me a while to kind of understand it, but never the less, here is a video of me using it as a meteor attack.

 

[Afro Smash]

wtf, wow i really thought it was impossible to spike airborne opponents, guess not, this could warrant its own thread iif im honest

 

[Xygonn]

wtf, wow i really thought it was impossible to spike airborne opponents, guess not, this could warrant its own thread iif im honest

I thought I might have done it once in a similar fashion but convinced myself I must've been playing as falcon. Interesting vid!

 

[Afro Smash]

Was this done before or after the 1.05 patch?

 

[Los4Muros]

Was this done before or after the 1.05 patch?

The video was from 1.0.4 But I have also done it on the patch 1.0.5 After you understand the trick a bit better, you can manage to do it a bit more often, but if I'm honest, I haven't been able to do it against every character and mainly only get to do it with heavy/big characters like Bowser, Ganondorf, Wario.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

How do you do it then?

 

[Afro Smash]

ah interesting, looks like there's a bit more to explore with it, but great find nonetheless

 

[Tumultus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the very first frame of a ledge grab vulnerable?

Up tilt most certainly does not meteor airborne opponents. It only has that effect on grounded opponents, so I think what happened here is a special case. If frame 1 of a ledge grab is indeed punishable, then it's possible that with very tight timing Samus' up tilt hit Wario the exact moment he grabbed the ledge (given that the game possibly registered him as being on the "ground")

It's the only way I can explain it. It's hard to tell if that's what's happening in this video, though.

 

[Xygonn]

Could be if you punish on the magnet frame before latching you punish with "grounded" flagged on. See this capture:

Clearly not grabbing the ledge.

 

[Tumultus]

Yeah it was very hard to tell mid-video, but it's gotta be something related to frame 1 of ledge grabbing. Or as you said, the "magnet effect" might register you as being grounded for that one instant.

 

[RoachCake]

Re: U-tilt aerial spiking

Was playing some games with my brother the other day and got a couple of aerial U-tilt spikes on him. I did have another replay where I spiked him offstage for a game winning kill, but couldn't upload it since the replay was just 17 seconds too long for the YouTube uploading feature.

@0:54 and 1:03

I think it's Sakurai and his team goofing up some coding for Wario and how he interacts with ledges and platforms that tells the game he's on the ground.

 

[Hapajin]

Glad this thread was revived.
Good examples of that up tilt spike, surprised you got it twice in one match. Do you think this glitch helps us at all in the wario match (assuming it doesn't get patched out)?

 

[RoachCake]

I think it helps a bit, although it feels like it happens extremely randomly, so I wouldn't rely on getting early kills from it often.
I doubt it will ever get patched out since it's been in the game for this long.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I've figured this one out actually. Wario is considered grounded when pulling out his bike. Even if there's no bike visible, he's considered grounded if his bike would be touching the ground and he has input the command to do so.