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Sakurai talks about Duck Hunt inclusion , 8-Player Smash originally planned for Melee, and more

Strofirko

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"Super Smash Bros. for Wii U launched in Japan last week. As such, Japanese magazine Famitsu sat down with director Masahiro Sakurai for a chat about the latest entry in Nintendo’s successful series. Some very interesting tidbits were shared, to say the least.

One of the topics Famitsu brings up is the inclusion of Duck Hunt. “The original Duck Hunt is a quite major game,” Sakurai said. He notes that the title could be the best-selling shooter game in the world since it was included with the NES in America.

Sakurai continues by mentioning that reviving the setting and fun of the original game is one reason to bring Duck Hunt to the Smash Bros. roster. However, he explains that “it is very important how different characters make the game interesting with their individuality.” According to Sakurai, Duck Hunt is something that hasn’t been seen before as there is a third person who aids the player when attacking, mimicking the gun shooting mechanic of the original game.

Other interesting comments came about when Sakurai spoke about 8-Player Smash. Surprisingly, he states that including simultaneous 8-player gameplay was declared in a project plan document for Super Smash Bros. Melee.

“It was a thing I considered when thinking about the follow-up for the first Smash,” Sakurai noted. Sadly, “it was more than impossible” based on technical performance. This time around, it was “achieved just barely. In 8-Player Smash, the stage selection is limited, stage gimmics are changed [no bosses for example] and so on.”

amiibo functionality is one of many selling points for the new Smash Bros. Based on Sakurai’s words, making Smash figures is something that had been considered previously. Creating amiibo was discussed with Nintendo in February, and after that, “the implementation was considered and the production began.”

When asked whether differences between Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS were decided at the starting phase of development, Sakurai said: “The big exclusive features for each version, Smash Run and Smash Tour, were decided at the beginning.” Both modes use the unique characteristics of their hardware. Sakurai also states, “Game options depend on hardware’s performance and those were changed during development.”

Finally, Sakurai briefly touches on plans for the future in Famitsu’s interview as well. “For now, only the distribution of Mewtwo is decided. Other than that is undecided.” Sakurai adds that production of Mewtwo has just started."

Source:Nintendoeverything

Let's discuss about this.
 

PSIBoy

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"Super Smash Bros. for Wii U launched in Japan last week. As such, Japanese magazine Famitsu sat down with director Masahiro Sakurai for a chat about the latest entry in Nintendo’s successful series. Some very interesting tidbits were shared, to say the least.

One of the topics Famitsu brings up is the inclusion of Duck Hunt. “The original Duck Hunt is a quite major game,” Sakurai said. He notes that the title could be the best-selling shooter game in the world since it was included with the NES in America.

Sakurai continues by mentioning that reviving the setting and fun of the original game is one reason to bring Duck Hunt to the Smash Bros. roster. However, he explains that “it is very important how different characters make the game interesting with their individuality.” According to Sakurai, Duck Hunt is something that hasn’t been seen before as there is a third person who aids the player when attacking, mimicking the gun shooting mechanic of the original game.

Other interesting comments came about when Sakurai spoke about 8-Player Smash. Surprisingly, he states that including simultaneous 8-player gameplay was declared in a project plan document for Super Smash Bros. Melee.

“It was a thing I considered when thinking about the follow-up for the first Smash,” Sakurai noted. Sadly, “it was more than impossible” based on technical performance. This time around, it was “achieved just barely. In 8-Player Smash, the stage selection is limited, stage gimmics are changed [no bosses for example] and so on.”

amiibo functionality is one of many selling points for the new Smash Bros. Based on Sakurai’s words, making Smash figures is something that had been considered previously. Creating amiibo was discussed with Nintendo in February, and after that, “the implementation was considered and the production began.”

When asked whether differences between Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS were decided at the starting phase of development, Sakurai said: “The big exclusive features for each version, Smash Run and Smash Tour, were decided at the beginning.” Both modes use the unique characteristics of their hardware. Sakurai also states, “Game options depend on hardware’s performance and those were changed during development.”

Finally, Sakurai briefly touches on plans for the future in Famitsu’s interview as well. “For now, only the distribution of Mewtwo is decided. Other than that is undecided.” Sakurai adds that production of Mewtwo has just started."

Source:Nintendoeverything

Let's discuss about this.
Barely able to work on Wii U? RIP Ice Coimbers, then. If it was only achieved barely with 8 players, I highly doubt 16 characters could be running around on the screen and still work.
 

KRBAY

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Just started?! That's surprising.

This does explain why 8-Player Smash wasn't included in Brawl, though.
 

WaddleKing

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Barely able to work on Wii U? RIP Ice Coimbers, then. If it was only achieved barely with 8 players, I highly doubt 16 characters could be running around on the screen and still work.
Well he did say he had them running fine on the Wii U Version. And if not than i guess they could just limit the amount of Ice Climbers for 8 player Smash like the stages.
 
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Pazzo.

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8 Player Smash barely made it? Could have fooled me, that sucker runs incredibly smooth.

Just goes to show how hard-working and committed the Smash team is.
 

Frostwraith

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Well he did say he had them running fine on the Wii U Version. And if not than i guess they could just limit the amount fo Ice Climbers for 8 player Smash like the stages.
That wouldn't be too fair, considering everyone can use the same character up to 8 times (that's why all characters have 8 alt colors/costumes).

Something to consider is how bosses are turned off for 8 players. Perhaps to save processing power.

Limiting stages makes sense as not all stages are suitable for 8 players such as smaller ones or ones with too much stuff going on.

Also, consider that when Sakurai mentioned the Ice Climbers' exclusion, 8-player Smash hadn't been unveiled yet, so Sakurai wouldn't talk about it, but it doesn't stop this mode from being a possible factor for their exclusion.

Sakurai stated that the ICs were working in earlier builds of the game and perhaps weren't developing 8-player mode by then when the 3DS version was already causing issues.

And I think the issues would be exactly the same: frame rate drops.
 

Moon Monkey

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Barely able to work on Wii U? RIP Ice Coimbers, then. If it was only achieved barely with 8 players, I highly doubt 16 characters could be running around on the screen and still work.
Pretty Sure Sakurai said they were just fine on the Wii U. it's the 3DS that he couldn't get them to run on so they were axed.
 

Naoshi

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Pretty Sure Sakurai said they were just fine on the Wii U. it's the 3DS that he couldn't get them to run on so they were axed.
But he never exactly stated they worked on 8P. This was before 8P Smash was announced though.

They also said they barely managed to make 8 Players Smash work. I don't think Ice Climbers would've fared well there.

Just started?! That's surprising.

This does explain why 8-Player Smash wasn't included in Brawl, though.
Wii's hardware capabilities isn't that much stronger than the GC. And the fact they said barely managed to get 8P mode to work on Wii U kind of implies Wii couldn't handle the mode.
 
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Moon Monkey

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But he never exactly stated they worked on 8P. This was before 8P Smash was announced though.
Yeah, he only really said they were cut due to 3DS limitations. We aren't sure if they were able to run them in 8P or they never even made it far enough in development to be tested in 8P at all.
They also said they barely got 8 Players Smash to work. I don't think Ice Climbers would've fared well there.
But, I'm pretty sure if they can get 8 Olimars with 3 Pikmin each in running in 8P mode and lesser extent 8 Rosalina's, ICs wouldn't be that far from a stretch.
 
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Naoshi

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Yeah only really said they were cut due to 3DS limitations. We aren't sure if they were able to run them in 8P or they never even made it to be tested in 8P at all.

But, I'm pretty sure if they can get 8 Olimars with 3 Pikmin each in running in 8P mode and lesser extent 8 Rosalina's, ICs wouldn't be that far from a stretch.
Pikmin and Luma are don't have a lot of polygons and also they don't have complex AI. Nana on the other hand...


But yeah maybe they could've worked but... IDK, I don't think you can compare IC to Pikmins and Lumas
 
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Moon Monkey

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Pikmin and Luma are don't have a lot of polygons and also they don't have complex AI. Nana on the other hand...
Yeah, sure in the case of 1 Luma and 1 pikmin compared to her? Sure. They aren't as intensive as Nana. But having 3 Pikmin x 8 Olimars all doing different things and having different timers that determine flower growths? That may be a lot more then just having an AI that replicates attack inputs by the lead character and assist with certain specials. Plus we don't know any gameplay tweaks they might have received to be in the game. We can't just assume they were gonna play as they did in Melee and Brawl.
But yeah maybe they could've worked but... IDK, I don't think you can compare IC to Pikmins and Lumas
I think it's pretty easy to compare them, especially the Pikmin when you see how they were scaled back a bit to on the 3DS version compared to the Wii U version.
 
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Strofirko

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I don't wanna be that guy.
But everything that the topic throwed in the table,is far related to anything that people is discussing right now...
I would rather have no replies than the thread getting derailed in this way.
 
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KingofEvil

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"
When asked whether differences between Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS were decided at the starting phase of development, Sakurai said: “The big exclusive features for each version, Smash Run and Smash Tour, were decided at the beginning.” Both modes use the unique characteristics of their hardware. Sakurai also states, “Game options depend on hardware’s performance and those were changed during development.”

Source:Nintendoeverything

Let's discuss about this.
Am I missing something? In what way do Smash Run/Tour make use of "unique characteristics in their hardware"? I see absolutely no reason Smash Run couldn't have been implemented on WiiU, and frankly I think Smash Tour could've been done on 3DS easily enough. I despise Tour but would kill to have Run available on WiiU.

Pretty Sure Sakurai said they were just fine on the Wii U. it's the 3DS that he couldn't get them to run on so they were axed.
This always really annoyed me too. Why did they let the 3DS version hold the WiiU version back in terms of IC and transformations? That reaks of laziness, like they couldn't be bothered to spend the time/money to make 2 full games (though lord knows they had no problem pricing them like that).

If IC can't work on WiiU cause of 8 player smash, fine. Don't know why you couldn't just alter the character or make it unselectable in that mode but w/e. But if they really weren't included solely because of the 3DS version, that's completely asinine. It really makes me hope SSB just sticks to consoles from here on out, though looking at the sales info that probably won't happen :(
 
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Hayzie

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“The big exclusive features for each version, Smash Run and Smash Tour, were decided at the beginning.” Both modes use the unique characteristics of their hardware. Sakurai also states, “Game options depend on hardware’s performance and those were changed during development.”
Like making a Cauldron of Crap and not sprinkling a little Online Dust into it. No adventure-type mode is fail. Smash Modes are already multiplayer.
 
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maxpower1227

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Am I missing something? In what way do Smash Run/Tour make use of "unique characteristics in their hardware"? I see absolutely no reason Smash Run couldn't have been implemented on WiiU, and frankly I think Smash Tour could've been done on 3DS easily enough. I despise Tour but would kill to have Run available on WiiU.
Smash Run does make use of the dual screens to show the map while you are playing, and the smash run powers are triggered with the touch screen. That would have been a lot tricker to do on the console version. The gamepad could be utilized the same way, but then you would be limited to one person playing per console.
 

Aguki90

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I can't believe that most of the character they choose is because its Prints money, Almost every single one of them.
Is popularity and money at the same time... At least were popular but... But there prints money than Popular.

And 8-player Smash almost could not made it. Oh boy, that mode is very good and lot of FUN.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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Rather interested to read that any plans after Mewtwo is "undecided", instead of him outright stating nothing will be done after Mewtwo. Could this mean Mewtwo's being testing waters to perhaps more DLC in the future?

I sure hope so because I'd love me more alternative characters to play as after enjoying Lemmy in my Sm4sh.
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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Rather interested to read that any plans after Mewtwo is "undecided", instead of him outright stating nothing will be done after Mewtwo. Could this mean Mewtwo's being testing waters to perhaps more DLC in the future?

I sure hope so because I'd love me more alternative characters to play as after enjoying Lemmy in my Sm4sh.
The latter part, I agree with.

I want my REAL Daisy alt for Peach, Sakurai's team!
 

K-45

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I can't believe that most of the character they choose is because its Prints money, Almost every single one of them.
Is popularity and money at the same time... At least were popular but... But there prints money than Popular.

And 8-player Smash almost could not made it. Oh boy, that mode is very good and lot of FUN.
Looks at ridley
 

Mr. KoopaTurtle

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Duck Hunt's "anonymous shooter" mechanic isn't that unique at all to me. It just helps out with his Smash Attacks and two of his specials.
 

PSIBoy

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I actually think Sakurai made up the story about the Ice Climbers not working on 3DS to cover up 8 player smash.
System with GameCube level power + lots of enemies in Smash Run/online For Fun with 4 Popo and Nana's running around + items=ridiculous amount of lag/break game.
 

SS-bros14

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So, they BARELY managed to get 8 player Smash working? I'm kinda thinking now that Ice Climbers + 8 player Smash wouldn't work.
 

Melonfrog

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Haven't decided on future content after Mewtwo? Hmm, after redeeming my points on Club Nintendo one of the questions asked me was why I got both copies, one answer was for Mewtwo. I bet if a lot of people select that answer it will help them decide.
 
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Naoshi

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This always really annoyed me too. Why did they let the 3DS version hold the WiiU version back in terms of IC and transformations? That reaks of laziness, like they couldn't be bothered to spend the time/money to make 2 full games (though lord knows they had no problem pricing them like that).

If IC can't work on WiiU cause of 8 player smash, fine. Don't know why you couldn't just alter the character or make it unselectable in that mode but w/e. But if they really weren't included solely because of the 3DS version, that's completely asinine. It really makes me hope SSB just sticks to consoles from here on out, though looking at the sales info that probably won't happen
:(
what

how is that even remotely lazy? it was a design choice

and making 2 full games is exactly what theyve did
 
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Sarki Soliloquy

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I'm pretty sure the only way to simulate 8 Player Smash in Melee would be to use the HUB Adapter. It allowed for 8 players total (look back in the manual of Mario Kart: Double Dash! for a better idea.) But I think it needed to split the game between 2 TVs for LAN parties. It looked so convoluted that I have never physically seen someone use it to this day.

Interesting to see how ancient that idea really is. Wonder what other cut design documents could be concocted in a future installment.
 

many37

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I am still confused though. If there have been files in the older Smash Bros. games hinting at having more than 4 players simultaneously in a match, then why would Sakurai state that the Ice Climbers were working fine on the Wii U and not on the 3DS just so that it could be a publicity stunt for covering how laggy having 8 Ice Climbers simultaneously could be?

Sakurai could at least have the 8P mode in mind even before the development for Smash 4 began, even if the mode was announced after he said that the Ice Climbers were working fine.

Just because something is not announced does not mean that something was not planned before hand.
 

ChikoLad

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Duck Hunt's "anonymous shooter" mechanic isn't that unique at all to me. It just helps out with his Smash Attacks and two of his specials.
It's unique in terms of personality.

Also, those particular moves are unique in function anyway.
 

Mobes

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"Undecided" means that there is still a possibility for more content after Mewtwo, which would be rad.
 

Jae55555

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Honestly I think any more characters than 8 running around and fighting eachother is too much. At that point pretty much everyone could just wario or charizard side b spam and there would be nowhere to land or stand or anything. Also it would probably be confusing.
 

Flaxr XIII

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Gamecube was capable of having six fighters at a time and according to the video, AT LEAST 5 Ice Climbers 13 YEARS AGO.
Yeah, 8 Ice Climbers at a time would have been insane but I'm fairly certain Wii U could've handled it.
I think by "barely happening" he was referring to the stage selection, as in, "Hmm, all these regular stages are too small for 8 Players, but we probably shouldn't make too many big stages either or else no one will play them, etc." And I'm sure time constraints were a factor in this too.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Sure, Gamecube could handle 5 IC's. But put in hazards, backgrounds moving a lot, items, and suddenly it becomes hyper laggy, as it did with even 4. The Wii U version would've lagged to hell and back with anything but static courses and only a small amount of major movements. It wasn't really plausible at all. That's why it's not an online option as well, it still contina stoo much lag.
 

Flaxr XIII

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Again, that was possible by a system that came out 13 years ago. While Wii U isn't any powerhouse of today's age, it's still way stronger than GC. And ICs have been said to be working properly on Wii U. How does that translate to "couldn't work in 8 players"?
8 Player isn't online since Nintendo is still figuring out online. Still...
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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8 Players is not online because it already lags too much with simply four. This has been noted by various players(calling it worse than the 3DS' online lag at times, which is a big problem. How do you expect them to do something with double the power needed at any reasonable framerate?). It's not possible to do it online because it's intolerable to play.

Ice Climbers would definitely lag the system. Especially with too much going on. It's not powerful enough to handle them and tons of things going on. There's too much lag. You're overestimating the capabilities of the system and it's already proven to be unable to do that much both online and offline. It's powerful, ubt not that powerful. The Wii U is not severely more powerful than the Gamecube or the Wii. I's better, but not to a ridiculous degree as you're implying. It would not work. Ice Climbers were screwed either way. They are 16 fully moving models and would easily cause lag with any halfway decent events going on.

5 or perhaps 6 player might've been the best the system can handle for 12 fully modeled fighters. 16? Yeah, not happening at any decent speed. The 3DS has a lot of lag online and offline, and the Wii U isn't severely better either. The game is huge, and that includes lag due to it.
 

Flaxr XIII

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Has there been official word that they wouldn't work in 8 Player? Please tell me if I missed something because all I'm seeing are dumbass assumptions. I'll gladly eat my words otherwise.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Ice Climbers have completely created laggy situations on every game they've been playable. The Wii U would not be able to easily handle 8 of them at top framerate. Yes, of course they would've been an issue. Not enough to disable them outside of online, but it's not like online 8 Player had a real chance. Too much lag/framerate issues, which the game already does have online on he Wii U version. Just let it go, neither had a good chance of happening. We're talking about a system that never could decently handle it. It has nothing to do with Nintendo specifically, the Wii U just didn't have that kind of power. The 3DS is constantly cited as having better online too. That says a lot.

And no there has not. But actually facts have shown the 3DS could not handle them, and that the Wii U has severe lag online still. There's just no way they would've worked well. And maybe you need to seriously read better. Nobody said they could not "work", just that they could not work at a reasonable framerate/without lag, as the system clearly cannot handle it. Melee very quickly lagged with 4 Ice Climbers. Doubling that combined with tons of stuff happening onscreen is going to lag a weaker system like the Wii U. Not even a contest. In addition, they disabled a lot of stuff for 8-Player Smash. Coin Mode is high proof of this lag issue. That's tons of coins going onscreen. If it "wasn't an issue", it'd be enabled. While it's anecdotal evidence, obviously, it's the only logical explanation we'll get outside of Sakurai's own words. People are assuming it due to the lag they know of heavily too. Not actually unjustified to think too much happening onscreen will lag the system(as it has in every game since without a doubt).
 

S_B

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Here's a very simple test: run an 8 Olimars game with tons of pokeballs/assist trophies spawning.

If you have 8 Olimars on stage with 8 pokemon/ATs that chase people around and the game doesn't experience slowdown, then the ICs would've been fine.

I don't think running 8 Nana AIs with 8 players would've been a problem on the Wii U. There are plenty of games with far more constraining parameters on the Wii U (like being able to move in three dimensions) where you'll encounter many enemies simultaneously without the game chugging.

Considering that Olimar's pikmin are desyncing on the 3DS, I'm guessing the 3DS is still the reason the ICs were axed.
 
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Storm Eagle

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Just put a single Ice Climber in. 4 Popo and 4 Nana costumes. Give them some kind of bonus in team battles. Done.
 
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