• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Sakurai: "If we Direct Smash ONLY at The Competitive Players, It Will Have No Future."

TheAnvil

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
5,457
You're entitled to that. But honestly, if that's all the game was, if it had no competitive scene, I wouldn't be involved with it at all. I'd stop playing entirely. It exists for a reason: There are people who enjoy this style of play greatly. To completely disregard that is silly and alienating. He has already catered to both sides pretty heavily in Smash 4, so why say these kinds of things now?
I don't really think he's catered all that much for the competitive side to be honest. And in all honesty, he shouldn't cater for them any more than he already has. Smash sells in the 10s of millions because it appeals to a casual audience, whereas games like Mortal Kombat and Tekken usually do far lower numbers.

Smash has already knocked it out the park anyway. They've managed to draw in a whole crowd of people without even intending to. That's how amazingly versatile Smash is.
 

platomaker

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 30, 2006
Messages
221
Location
miami
I like how he says competitive Smash has no future when Melees been through tough times when nobody supported it. Plus I don't see as big of a competitive scene for other 10 year games.
apparently I double posted from two different pages. huh, that's something.
 
Last edited:

42nd

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
45
I think we shouldn't jump the gun right away. The fact of the matter is the competitive community when melee came out didn't spring up without a slow rise in competitive players gradually over time. We should treat smash 4 the same way. Give it time and see what happens. I would like to see it succeed :).
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
What Sakurai meant:
"If I focus too much on competitive play, then smash dies"
What people understood:
"lol, Smash will never be competitive, you fa**"
 

platomaker

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 30, 2006
Messages
221
Location
miami
I like how he says competitive Smash has no future when Melees been through tough times when nobody supported it. Plus I don't see as big of a competitive scene for other 10 year games.
Triple posted, my computer was really acting up. sorry. disregard this post.
 
Last edited:

KiTsuNe_23

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
30
Location
Southern Utah
Hey, Japanese speakers, what's the gist of the untranslated parts where he discusses DLC? Anything promising?

I only briefly scanned it, and basically he doesn't say if he will or will not. He just mentions that it is expensive, and that he understands the value of adding new characters.
 

chipndip

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
439
NNID
Chiptendo
3DS FC
4098-3083-1621
I like how he says competitive Smash has no future when Melees been through tough times when nobody supported it. Plus I don't see as big of a competitive scene for other 10 year games.
You're thinking of it from the wrong perspective. 10k hardcore fans =/= millions upon millions of sales.
 

42nd

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Messages
45
I only briefly scanned it, and basically he doesn't say if he will or will not. He just mentions that it is expensive, and that he understands the value of adding new characters.
I mean is this necessarily a bad thing? Let non competitive players get DLC to increase the longevity of the game, and simply change the rules on the competitive side either by accepting on banning said DLC?
 

Mike_Tha_Hero

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 23, 2008
Messages
74
Location
Georgia
NNID
mikexxieaf
You guys should be ashamed of yourselves for taking his statement out of context. All he's saying is that unlike Street Fighter and similar competitive fighters, Smash doesn't see updates that tune up the meta game. This is a necessary component to any competitive fighter's future so the longevity for Smash isn't the same is "true" fighters. That's all he's saying. He's not saying you can't play the game competitively AT ALL after a certain point.
 
Last edited:

BobVance_

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
189
NNID
FingoDingo
3DS FC
3454-1540-6867
LOL, the damage control is delicious.
 

Vigilante

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
1,813
Location
Quebec
Sakurai is a washed-up designer who has lost sight of what is truly important.

He lacks the basic understanding that a game can be both deep and accessible. It is this kind of narrow-minded thinking that has destroyed the smash community and replaced it with separate sub-communities filled with cynicism.

Melee was fun at both a party and competitive level. it was easily approachable, but also extremely deep. The "online" argument is pointless with decent matchmaking options. Understanding that distinction is the single most important thing a designer should keep in mind. Ana ccessible game allows for new players to get into the game, but depth keeps them hooked. Depth and accessibility are not on a continuum. They are two entierly separate entities that can co-exist.

I used to respect Sakurai, he was someone whom I aspired to be like when I was younger. To see the personr esponsible for my favourite game of all time turn out like this... it's a hard pill to swallow.

Smash Bros. needs new blood, a designer capable of actually interacting and respecting its competitive community. I'm sorry Sakurai, but you are the bigger problem. You need to go.
 

Claire Diviner

President
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Messages
7,476
Location
Indian Orchard, MA
NNID
ClaireDiviner
I don't see how Smash has taught us this. One's intuition doesn't make them beat Mew2King in Melee. Practice and knowledge and execution is tremendous. I do love that Smash did away with forced memorized button patterns, but if you really think that competitive Melee is physically easier to play than Guilty Gear, you never progressed far.
You're foolish if you think I'm talking about just Melee. I'm talking about the series as a whole. While the games have their share of advanced techniques, with Melee being the most technical game, they're still by and large simpler by design than most other fighters.
 
Last edited:

BobVance_

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
189
NNID
FingoDingo
3DS FC
3454-1540-6867
Okay but seriously..."If I wanted to, I'm sure I could make a more hardcore Smash Brothers game. I could make the game speed much faster, increase the number of inputs...but then, beginners would no longer be able to play the game. When the game becomes more like a sport, a tool that more strictly rewards the player with more skill, the game tapers off more, like a mountain. Just like how a mountain tapers off into its peak, that area becomes more and more narrow."

I don't think anyone realizes how truly insane this comment is. This guy is so out of it; he needs to step away from the video games for awhile.
 

ruhtraeel

Smash Ace
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
707
Location
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
The biggest issue with this is the fact that not every game can have the mindset where you can win all of the time-it's just not possible because someone has to lose. That's the nature of a game where there's competition (Not competitive play, May-the-Best-Man-Win type of gameplay).

I understand what Sakurai's trying to do, but the problem is that the series' elements basically entail that the player with the most experience will always win unless they are screwed over, and if that occurs, then it's also a counterpoint because by losing to randomness and things out of their own control (A Bomb-omb or explosive capsule appearing out of nowhere while that person is attacking, for example) means that that person now has no interest in playing a certain way because it's no longer fun to them, as well. This is why I'm glad (Although the implications of one of the modes is more of a conceited misconception) the options in Online exist, so people can do as they please without too much of a problem.

Any type of game will have a skill gap in some way or another, as it's not the better players' jobs to accommodate for those who have no idea what they're doing, Smash is no exception. I understand games are meant to be a stress-reliever and something you do for fun, but if you cannot accept the loss of something simply because you don't want to learn to get better at the game or learn the mechanics, then I'm sorry-you deserve to lose, and getting upset because someone is better than you (Not because you win by getting lucky) is truly childish.
And here lies the fundamental problem that many people are butthurt/salty over (and understandably so): Regardless of whether or not it is "childish" to get upset when you lose even though you deserve to, it creates a negative experience for that person. The objective results of this can be seen: less people want to play the game. Being "childish" doesn't matter when the basis of a company is the objective maximization of profit.

As annoying and unfair as this seems, it's the truth, and it most likely won't change.

To me, this just means that I treat the games differently; Melee as a competitive one, and Smash 4 as a casual one.
 
Last edited:

Mike_Tha_Hero

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 23, 2008
Messages
74
Location
Georgia
NNID
mikexxieaf
Sakurai is a washed-up designer who has lost sight of what is truly important.

He lacks the basic understanding that a game can be both deep and accessible.
It is, and in this very interview he acknowledged as much. Did you even read it or just conjure up a frustrated reply as soon as you read the out-of-context, click-baity headline SmashBoards decided to run with?
 

ssknight7

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
136
So Sakurai was a scrawny kid who had tons of insecurities, couldn't emotionally process/cope with failure, and felt that he would never amount to anything in life.

He projects his emotional fragility on the rest of humanity and tries to do them a "favor" by protecting them from the highs and lows of competition and defeat.

Sakurai you're just one more manifestation of a serious cancer running rampant through society. You're not doing anyone any favors by shielding them from the very real adversities life has to offer.

You accidentally created a masterpiece once. Thanks, I guess. Competitive Smash doesn't need you. Noone needs you. You're still a pathetic kid with a ****** up haircut.
 

CrossoverMan

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 25, 2013
Messages
588
Oni is cool, don't diss... that doesn't answer what it is. You had shin akuma from previous games, ya know, when he can finally use all his power kinda like Oro when he uses both hands. I'd be hyped to see that, a sequence you enter to actually play as both characters at their potential. That was kinda the reason Akuma wanted to tempt Ryu into Evil Ryu so they can both fight to their extent. Ryu denied evil intentions followed his master's footsteps and became mediocre in streetfighter 3 (story wise- so he can be the protagonist in the comic and he's mid-tier in the game where ken's super top tier) blah blah blah, you get the point. This was what the game was BEFORE street fighter 4. Reboot as in a continuation from street fighter 3's story and maybe see Sean training with Ken's kid.

...ahem, so a game like this has fans that are this divided, you can imagine how divided SMASH is, even just by these comments. You got control freaks versus mind gamers on the topic of what SMASH is, and then you have the words of the developer twisted to where people only see the short-term and even express how ungrateful they are to his efforts. Say what he will, I like the damn game. I liked brawl too, and melee. How competitive they were and the love competitive gaming garnered? Remove money from the equation and let's see where that love goes.
Street Fighter 4 is actually set before Street Fighter 3 story wise, so Sean's training could be seen in the new game. Maybe I should consider joining a Street Fighter fan forum or something.
 

SonicXD81/LPer Unown

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 15, 2014
Messages
7
Location
Inglewood, CA
I think what he doesn't understand is that both Smash and while not relevant, Pokémon are simple at its surface that people can pick up and play, but deep in its core where it wasn't suppose to be. I haven't seen a game that has ever done that to where both Hardcore and Casual Players can enjoy the game in its own way. To me, a Smash/Pokémon game only gets better and better; the only way the competitive scene of both series can get worse is the players want to play it uber-competitively. Even without the discoveries of techs that we have found in Smash 4, the community will find ways to play it competitively. We have with Brawl. Was it pretty, no, but did it exist, yes.

I found his comments very interesting, especially with the "A Competitive Smash has no future" comment. I don't mind what he does with the series; the only way I can be is because of what the asshats of the community is going to say. The stereotypes, the (Melee) Elitists, Melee V.S. Brawl people, **** Sakurai and get a new director people, as that's when I get worried. Their needs to be a balance with both casual and competitive play. It still needs to be the way it was visioned, but their also needs to be respect for competitive players at least. Does it have to be like Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Tekken, nope, but it can't be something that alienates competitive players, just like how he has said before that he doesn't like how exclusive is the fighting game genre, as that alienates casuals, unless they're dedicated to be in the top. Thus his solution was Smash. Casual Talk, but in my case, I'd started out casual, but became competitive, but still enjoys casual play. If he can realize that, the series will change, but I can't say if it's for the better or worse if he does.
 

CrossoverMan

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 25, 2013
Messages
588
So Sakurai was a scrawny kid who had tons of insecurities, couldn't emotionally process/cope with failure, and felt that he would never amount to anything in life.

He projects his emotional fragility on the rest of humanity and tries to do them a "favor" by protecting them from the highs and lows of competition and defeat.

Sakurai you're just one more manifestation of a serious cancer running rampant through society. You're not doing anyone any favors by shielding them from the very real adversities life has to offer.

You accidentally created a masterpiece once. Thanks, I guess. Competitive Smash doesn't need you. Noone needs you. You're still a pathetic kid with a ****** up haircut.
Okay, that is just plain mean. Like seriously, that was a messed up thing to type down. In case you haven't noticed, you can still lose in Smash Bros even when you aren't playing competitively.
 

SupremeSuperiorStick

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
166
Location
Pallet Town
NNID
Sohaii
that man made the game which you play and love and you call him dumb what respect is this would you call your mother a ****?
He simply said that blindly worshipping him was wrong, which it is. I'm not saying he's dumb, I'm just saying that his decisions right now are because Nintendo of America clearly said in an interview that esports helped Smash's sales. Sure he created Smash, which is a wonderful franchise, but that doesn't automatically mean that all his decisions are perfectly right. And no one is calling him a ****, stop putting words in our mouth.
 

BobVance_

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
189
NNID
FingoDingo
3DS FC
3454-1540-6867
My guess is this guy was really bad at sports in high school.
 

Gidy

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
1,638
Location
Michigan
NNID
I-Gidy-I
3DS FC
0834-3126-6726
Triple posted, my computer was really acting up. sorry. disregard this post.
Well Pokemon has a lot of things going for it that Smash doesn't. Its not around just because of its competitive scene. Its around because of many things like being nationally recognized and the amount of replayability it has. From catching them all to breeding to just raising a good team. If you are a completionist then 30 Pokemon won't cut it for you. Each new game is like a patch, bringing new additions to old Pokemon while maybe adding some and maybe tweaking those old Pokemon. Plus Pokemon has something that Smash doesn't. Support from the developer and publisher.
 

Vigilante

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
1,813
Location
Quebec
How about we flood Nintendo and Nintendo of America's Twitter? I think it's about time we actually voice our dissatisfaction directly.

They need to know just how negatively they are impacting their community right now.

Any good hashtag to get trending?
 
Last edited:

BigLord

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
1,594
Location
Lisbon, Portugal
NNID
BiigLord
3DS FC
3024-7470-9499
Sakurai: I fought, I lost...these results and suffering from painful feelings is how the user base shrinks, and we want to avoid that with Smash. In that sense, Smash has many elements that are rather ambiguous and nebulous in regards to competition.
This part right here is what irks me. So you want to make everybody able to win, regardless of skill, Sakurai? Does that really apply in a tournament, in a test of skill?...

He really needs to understand how competitive Smashing works :\ It's ironic I'm talking about the creator of the game, but... heh
 

ssknight7

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
136
This part right here is what irks me. So you want to make everybody able to win, regardless of skill, Sakurai? Does that really apply in a tournament, in a test of skill?...

He really needs to understand how competitive Smashing works :\ It's ironic I'm talking about the creator of the game, but... heh
It's not competitive smash he's misunderstanding, it's life.
 

Gidy

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
1,638
Location
Michigan
NNID
I-Gidy-I
3DS FC
0834-3126-6726
You're thinking of it from the wrong perspective. 10k hardcore fans =/= millions upon millions of sales.
Just because the 10k people doesn't make up their sales doesn't mean that those other customers can't enjoy those competitive features. I'm sure that only 10k people are not the only people who play with items off.
 

platomaker

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 30, 2006
Messages
221
Location
miami
Street Fighter 4 is actually set before Street Fighter 3 story wise, so Sean's training could be seen in the new game. Maybe I should consider joining a Street Fighter fan forum or something.
before its creation not its setting sorry. i was stoked for street fighter 4 hoping for more and, while its not less, its different. its actually a good comparison to melee. Street fighter 5 might well be more of the same.
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

Lady Layton| Trap Queen♥
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
80,032
Location
IDOLM@STER Side M Hell, Virginia Beach
Switch FC
SW: 5586-2837-4585
How about we flood Nintendo and Nintendo of America's Twitter? I think it's about time we actually voice our dissatisfaction directly.

They need to know just how negatively they are impacting their community right now.

Any good hashtag to get trending?
How about I report you for spamming a persons twitter?
 

DarkDream

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
77
Sakurai is the director and makes the final call, but he has a team of hundreds working under him. There is a competitive mode in the game, and the person who oversees that mode would be have been hired to guarantee a solid experience for competitive players. Reports come in through the For Glory team that things need tweaking and Sakurai reacts.
My point is that if no one working on this game cared about competitive smash then there wouldn't be a For Glory mode and the one balance patch we got would never come.
I feel that for glory was more for segregation than for our enjoyment. And that patch was full of iffy changes. Sakurai don't care about competitive people
 

JayTheUnseen

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 15, 2014
Messages
2,099
How about we flood Nintendo and Nintendo of America's Twitter? I think it's about time we actually voice our dissatisfaction directly.

They need to know just how negatively they are impacting their community right now.

Any good hashtag to get trending?
Won't do any good.It won't tell Nintendo anything they didn't know already,nor will they probably care,given how it will look.
 

RIP|Merrick

Absolute Trash
Joined
Mar 30, 2014
Messages
492
Location
Michigan
NNID
Merricktherox
3DS FC
4339-2630-2726
"For some reason I promised to make Mewtwo"
Why is nobody talking about this? This is the one line in that piece of the interview that bothers me so much. The guy sounds so worn out, like he's forced to do this, somebody get this man a break. Please. Somebody.
 

JayTheUnseen

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 15, 2014
Messages
2,099
Why is nobody talking about this? This is the one line in that piece of the interview that bothers me so much. The guy sounds so worn out, like he's forced to do this, somebody get this man a break. Please. Somebody.
That's one of the biggest reasons he shouldn't be the director next time.He didn't want to make Brawl,so he probably didn't want to make this game either.Why not let him do what he wants?He and Sora have worked on Smash enough-any more would really be wasting their potential on something they've already done.
 

Gidy

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
1,638
Location
Michigan
NNID
I-Gidy-I
3DS FC
0834-3126-6726
Why is nobody talking about this? This is the one line in that piece of the interview that bothers me so much. The guy sounds so worn out, like he's forced to do this, somebody get this man a break. Please. Somebody.
How about he stops undergoing huge projects like this. He is obviously sick of making Smash games. Sequels are the reason he left HAL
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom