Ryu Startup & Landing Lag Frame Data

[Trifroze]

Ryu is easily among the fastest frame datas in the game as well as the least landing lag overall. The light variations of jab and tilts are very hard to do optimally though.

Jab light: 3
Jab heavy: 9
Ftilt light: 9
Ftilt heavy: 13
Dtilt light: 3
Dtilt heavy: 7
Utilt light: 4
Utilt heavy: 7
Dash attack: 7

Fsmash: 15, 10 release
Usmash: 9, 3 release
Dsmash: 6, 3 release

Nair: 4
Fair: 6
Uair: 6
Dair: 8
Bair: 8

Grab: 6
Dash grab: 8
Pivot grab: 8

Neutral b: 12
Hadoken input: 13
Shakunetsu input: 13
Shoryuken: 6
Tatsumaki: 8
Focus attack (minimum for stun): 41

Jump squat: 5
Spotdodge: 27, invicibility 4-20
Airdodge: 33, invincibility 5-27
Rolls: 30, invincibility 5-20

Nair landing: 6
Fair landing: 14
Bair landing: 12
Uair landing: 14
Dair landing: 18
Shoryuken landing: 12

 

[KuroganeHammer]

http://smashboards.com/threads/ryus-frame-data-very-wip.406385/

 

[Kulty]

Interesting. So he's really similar to , but better air game at the slight expense of mobility. Does this mean that he will a viable tournament character? I really hope he is. I know that can be vulnerable against characters with disjointed hitboxes like and and maybe campers, not sure though.

 

[ZeroSnipist]

Interesting. So he's really similar to , but better air game at the slight expense of mobility. Does this mean that he will a viable tournament character? I really hope he is. I know that can be vulnerable against characters with disjointed hitboxes like and and maybe campers, not sure though.

I can agree sword users such as shulk are a pain to get around.

 

[Trifroze]

http://smashboards.com/threads/ryus-frame-data-very-wip.406385/

Didn't notice that, in any case the frames I posted are complete so there's no need to waste time on those.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Ryu eats Shulk... That focus attack beats shulks air attacks with ease.

Every Ryu main needs to master focus attack cancel and Learning how to focus attack and shoryu right after.

 

[Kulty]

I can agree sword users such as shulk are a pain to get around.

Then what might be the safest approach option for against these characters? Tatsumaku ( ) can be easily punished on the ground.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Didn't notice that, in any case the frames I posted are complete so there's no need to waste time on those.

Your topic seems to be getting more attention so you're free to finish it if you like, although regardless of what you do, I'll be doing a page/guide anyway.

 

[ZeroSnipist]

Then what might be the safest approach option for against these characters? Tatsumaku ( ) can be easily punished on the ground.

tatsumaku is very punishable when recovering. Shulks fair beats it since it hits from above.

Ryu eats Shulk... That focus attack beats shulks air attacks with ease.

Really ? Can you show me with some kind of video. If you can post it in the video thread that would be great.
From the few games I played with a decent shulk it seemed his hitboxes were multi-hit in the air and they beat out FA. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Then what might be the safest approach option for against these characters? Tatsumaku ( ) can be easily punished on the ground.

I feel that hadoken/ex hadoken/ and red hadoken(sorry don't know name) could be good zone tools against sword users.
Two things usually happen when you throw out a hadoken: either the opponent gets hit or shields and in both scenarios they come running back. In this situation I place a hitbox to counter the mindless approach. This usually works for me but it's a conditional option , take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Kulty]

I feel that hadoken/ex hadoken/ and red hadoken(sorry don't know name) could be good zone tools against sword users.
Two things usually happen when you throw out a hadoken: either the opponent gets hit or shields and in both scenarios they come running back. In this situation I place a hitbox to counter the mindless approach. This usually works for me but it's a conditional option , take it with a grain of salt.

Thank you so much. I'll try it. Have a good smash time with Ryu (might be in my mains) along with Roy! When I test out the red hadoken, it seems to do a lot of shield damage, right? Can someone verify this?

 

[ZeroSnipist]

Thank you so much. I'll try it. Have a good smash time with Ryu (might be in my mains) along with Roy! When I test out the red hadoken, it seems to do a lot of shield damage, right? Can someone verify this?

Well it would do a bit more shield damage since it's a multi hitbox move. Regardless it should be tested. And whoever is testing this can you also test if analog input moves do more shield damage than the normal versions.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Villager will be annoying for Ryu mains

 

[Kulty]

I tested all of the three (up, neutral and side), and they seem to do slightly more shield damage. I'm not exactly sure about that, so you guys can prove me wrong.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Against shulk just stay grounded. If shulk dares to try and fair or nair you. Your FA will beat it. absorb hit, punish landing lag. If he is too far away then dash cancel punish him.

 

[ZeroSnipist]

Against shulk just stay grounded. If shulk dares to try and fair or nair you. Your FA will beat it. absorb hit, punish landing lag. If he is too far away then dash cancel punish him.

Hmm I'll give it a try next time I play another shulk.

 

[redcometchar]

Villager will be annoying for Ryu mains

Villager is always annoying.

 

[Skitrel]

I assume those are startup times in the OP?

The thread title suggests this is all the frame data, it's not. We need endlag, we need cancel endlag, shield hit lag and more.

I can't agree at all with the original post's suggestion that he's got "easily among the fastest frame data in the game" either. Sheik/Yoshi/Luigi/Falcon/Mac's startup times are all significantly better than the vast majority of these startup times.

A 3frame jab and a 4 frame nair isn't all that good, it's pretty middle of the pack average to be honest.

If we're going to be learning and discussing Ryu we need to get over the hype of "OMFG Ryu is so technical!" and discuss him realistically.

 

[Trifroze]

I assume those are startup times in the OP?

The thread title suggests this is all the frame data, it's not. We need endlag, we need cancel endlag, shield hit lag and more.

I can't agree at all with the original post's suggestion that he's got "easily among the fastest frame data in the game" either. Sheik/Yoshi/Luigi/Falcon/Mac's startup times are all significantly better than the vast majority of these startup times.

A 3frame jab and a 4 frame nair isn't all that good, it's pretty middle of the pack average to be honest.

If we're going to be learning and discussing Ryu we need to get over the hype of "OMFG Ryu is so technical!" and discuss him realistically.

In the past I have calculated the frame data average of every single character in the game and Ryu sits at 3rd with Fox and Sheik (6.875) without his heavy jab and heavy tilts, and at 6th (7.3) if you count those in. Falcon for instance is pretty far at the bottom even if you only count his normals and even if you leave his smashes out. His frame data is anything but fast and anything else is a misconception, he has 1 fast move in jab and 3 more decently fast moves in uair, nair and DA.

I will be fixing the title so that it clarifies this thread only has startup times for now, in the meantime perhaps you can contribute to discovering the rest if you're eager to find out about it.

 

[Skitrel]

In the past I have calculated the frame data average of every single character in the game and Ryu sits at 3rd with Fox and Sheik (6.875) without his heavy jab and heavy tilts, and at 6th (7.3) if you count those in. Falcon for instance is pretty far at the bottom even if you only count his normals and even if you leave his smashes out. His frame data is anything but fast and anything else is a misconception, he has 1 fast move in jab and 3 more decently fast moves in uair, nair and DA.

I will be fixing the title so that it clarifies this thread only has startup times for now, in the meantime perhaps you can contribute to discovering the rest if you're eager to find out about it.

This assumes only startup and landing lag though.

You can't just do that, it's not a fair concept of "frame data". Endlag matters to that scenario massively because it's where every character is punishable.

Lots of characters have quick moves, it doesn't necessarily make them good options if they're vulnerable for using them though.

Frame data should include the entire picture. Not half of it. A moves "frames" are startup, hitbox active, and ending.

 

[Trifroze]

This assumes only startup and landing lag though.

You can't just do that, it's not a fair concept of "frame data". Endlag matters to that scenario massively because it's where every character is punishable.

Lots of characters have quick moves, it doesn't necessarily make them good options if they're vulnerable for using them though.

Frame data should include the entire picture. Not half of it. A moves "frames" are startup, hitbox active, and ending.

I agree that endlag is important, however he's still among the fastest. Don't think I haven't looked into endlag at all; there just aren't charts for it to my knowledge so it's harder to calculate it for every character. In any case, you were talking about startup times:

Sheik/Yoshi/Luigi/Falcon/Mac's startup times are all significantly better than the vast majority of these startup times.

A 3frame jab and a 4 frame nair isn't all that good, it's pretty middle of the pack average to be honest.

To which I responded that you are wrong, especially in the case of Falcon. No need to change the subject. Ryu's startup times are as fast or faster than all of those bar Luigi.

 

[Skitrel]

I agree that endlag is important, however he's still among the fastest. Don't think I haven't looked into endlag at all; there just aren't charts for it to my knowledge so it's harder to calculate it for every character. In any case, you were talking about startup times:

The full frame data is available in the character data rips. http://smashboards.com/threads/comp...-every-character-now-with-ko-percents.383550/

Direct link to the data: http://pastebin.com/PzTjdtx8

Similar rips have been occurring following the release of each patch. I don't currently have any links bookmarked though I'm afraid. You'll have to look around.

To which I responded that you are wrong, especially in the case of Falcon. No need to change the subject. Ryu's startup times are as fast or faster than all of those bar Luigi.

They're simply not as fast or faster. Having a lot of moves that are reasonably quick while lacking any that are genuinely quick is a significant thing. Considering averages is absolutely ridiculous as is removing moves from your averages then selectively not removing them from your comparison to other characters.

Be selective for one character, then be selective for another. Ryu's options compared with Falcon's options. Falcon has more, and they're quicker I'm afraid. Ryu simply doesn't have approach options, it doesn't matter how quick your moves come out if they're not safe-on-shield.

Currently Roy is a far higher character on the tier list if we don't discover some particularly interesting things with Ryu that aren't immediately obvious. He's ridiculously more versatile and generally better.

 

[Trifroze]

Be selective for one character, then be selective for another. Ryu's options compared with Falcon's options. Falcon has more, and they're quicker I'm afraid. Ryu simply doesn't have approach options, it doesn't matter how quick your moves come out if they're not safe-on-shield.

Let's compare then, Falcon's startups which you claimed to be faster vs Ryu's equivalents:

Jab: 3 vs 3 or 9 (the latter is a different option entirely, more like a traditional ftilt)
DA: 7 vs 7
Nair: 7 vs 4
Fair: 14 vs 6
Bair: 10 vs 8
Uair: 6 vs 6
Dair: 16 vs 8
Ftilt: 9 vs 9 or 13
Utilt: 17 vs 4 or 7
Dtilt: 11 vs 3 or 7
Fsmash: 19 vs 15
Usmash: 22 vs 9
Dsmash: 19 vs 6
Grab: 7 vs 6
Dash grab: 9 vs 8
Pivot grab: 12 vs 8

Falcon doesn't beat Ryu once in startup times when it comes to optimal options that they have in a given scenario. Falcon's approach game and neutral overall are far better for sure, but that wasn't what you were originally claiming. Frame data is not one of Falcon's strong points, it's his ability to utilize the few quick moves he has with his mobility and traps. We're getting way sidetracked though.

 

[Z1GMA]

You should add the landing lag on the EX Shoryuken. It has almost no landing lag.
Yet another reason why it's surperior.to the normal version.