Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Gingerbread Man]

so what r u trying to prove now?

Really I'm not sure anymore. I'm just defending against bad assumptions.

 

[Deleted member]

In general, the idea of Chrom is just flat out doubtful. It seems like the only factor going for him is that Fire Emblem: Awakening is this big "all-star" game that pretty much saved the franchise, but that alone won't be a big enough justification to include such a bland edition. Even if he was included, it wouldn't be an ideal thing. If he replaces a character, there will be outcry and proclaiming him a replacement scrappy, or if he's included along the other characters, there's going to be criticism over the lack of originality.

It's this complicated mess that's making me doubt Chrom would actually become a thing.

This. Plus with Lucina at times being more important than Chrom along with many other lords getting DLC, there's kind of a less of a focus on Chrom than most lords. There's also the fact that if they want to rep FE13 in characters, one way to do is to give Marth is FE13 costume and bring Roy back with his FE13 costume.

 

[_R@bid_]

Gingerbread, stop. This is stupid and pointless. There is no way either of you are going to prove your points when you'd have to poll so many people.
Edit: too slow

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Then you have no case.
Your original argument is meant to be in favor of Chrom. Neither side supports your cause.
Smash fans want Roy and only begrudgingly expect Chrom due to a non-existent pattern.
FE fans like Lucina and the Avatar more than Chrom. As well as plenty of other older characters.

So really, all it is is that Chrom is "recent", which is not a good argument.

I was defending Chrom from something else originally. The tangent we went off in was more-so against Roy. I'm not against Lucina or Robin so that's fine.

I'm getting sorta dizzy responding to multiple comments at once. :/

 

[Deleted member]

Oh look its golden telling me I should be ashamed. Considering you've told about a quarter of the board this, I really don't feel bad.

Childish exaggerations and false slander do not help your case whatsoever.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showforum=26
Here are group of people who care about smash. Now wheres your "I'm and FE fan and don't care about smash" group?

Don't move the goal post of the argument. The argument was not that either side exists as we already know both sides exist.
The argument was that one side was the majority.
That being said, you specifically link to a Smash board on a Fire Emblem forum, yet fail to realize that the forum is primarily a Fire Emblem forum. Out of over 6,000 members, only a fraction of that amount of users has posted on that board. Logic dictates that would mean there were more FE fans that don't care about Smash on that forum than there were ones that did.
So I don't really have to supply proof for my argument; you did it for me.

And before you answer that, I'm talking about people who care about both.

Then you're asking me to find people that care about both Fire Emblem and Smash, while not caring about Smash.
...Do you not see the sheer stupidity of that? People cannot both care and not care for the same thing; it's an illogical fallacy.

 

[FlareHabanero]

This. Plus with Lucina at times being more important than Chrom along with many other lords getting DLC, there's kind of a less of a focus on Chrom than most lords.

Plus, there's also the factor of other characters being introduced in the next Smash game pretty much overshadowing Chrom due to being more exotic. Like for example, Takamaru and Shulk.

 

[---]

Honestly I'm pretty sure that the main focus is to appeal to a mass audience not one particular fanbase. Just looking at the character choices for FE, the series we know the most about when it comes to character selection, is evidence enough. Fanbases don't know what they want/can't agree on anything anyway.

Now that Marth's in, it's all about finding more Roys & Ikes, aka, characters who seem likeable enough and would fit into Smash's gameplay style well. Roy was a character that debuted in Smash, meaning he had no previous fanbase/popularity to fall upon. Ike's games sold poorly in general or something like that.

Marth: Popularity, Series, Mascot/Main character,
Roy: Flame Sword, looked likable, advertisement,
Ike: IS likes him and thought was a good fit for Smash,

As for Chrom, based on what we know about how the former 3 were chosen, it's entirely up to Sakurai if he wants new blood or wants to stick with what he already has rather than IS (who doesn't seem to care either way) or fans. Arguably this is the franchise that is the least effected by fandom.

 

[Uranium235]

Honestly I'm pretty sure that the main focus is to appeal to a mass audience not one particular fanbase. Just looking at the character choices for FE, the series we know the most about when it comes to character selection, is evidence enough. Fanbases don't know what they want/can't agree on anything anyway.

Now that Marth's in, it's all about finding more Roys & Ikes, aka, characters who seem likeable enough and would fit into Smash's gameplay style well. Roy was a character that debuted in Smash, meaning he had no previous fanbase/popularity to fall upon. Ike's games sold poorly in general or something like that.

Marth: Popularity, Series, Mascot/Main character,
Roy: Flame Sword, looked likable, advertisement,
Ike: IS likes him and thought was a good fit for Smash,

As for Chrom, based on what we know about how the former 3 were chosen, it's entirely up to Sakurai if he wants new blood or wants to stick with what he already has rather than IS (who doesn't seem to care either way) or fans. Arguably this is the franchise that is the least effected by fandom.

This pretty much sums up what i was trying to say earlier only with more detail and clarity (aka it was a thousand times better)

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly I'm pretty sure that the main focus is to appeal to a mass audience not one particular fanbase. Just looking at the character choices for FE, the series we know the most about when it comes to character selection, is evidence enough. Fanbases don't know what they want/can't agree on anything anyway.

Now that Marth's in, it's all about finding more Roys & Ikes, aka, characters who seem likeable enough and would fit into Smash's gameplay style well. Roy was a character that debuted in Smash, meaning he had no previous fanbase/popularity to fall upon. Ike's games sold poorly in general or something like that.

Marth: Popularity, Series, Mascot/Main character,
Roy: Flame Sword, looked likable, advertisement,
Ike: IS likes him and thought was a good fit for Smash,

As for Chrom, based on what we know about how the former 3 were chosen, it's entirely up to Sakurai if he wants new blood or wants to stick with what he already has rather than IS (who doesn't seem to care either way) or fans. Arguably this is the franchise that is the least effected by fandom.

Dr. Tri's Words of Wisdom tm

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Childish exaggerations and false slander do not help your case whatsoever.

I didn't think it would. Telling me I should be ashamed didn't help you cause either so I thought it was appropriate.

Don't move the goal post of the argument. The argument was not that either side exists as we already know both sides exist.
The argument was that one side was the majority.
That being said, you specifically link to a Smash board on a Fire Emblem forum, yet fail to realize that the forum is primarily a Fire Emblem forum. Out of over 6,000 members, only a fraction of that amount of users has posted on that board. Logic dictates that would mean there were more FE fans that don't care about Smash on that forum than there were ones that did.
So I don't really have to supply proof for my argument; you did it for me.

A lot of people join the boards, make a post or two and never come back. That happens on a lot of forums. Also, there are 15,000 replies in that section. Logically its possible that all 6,000 members have made a post there. Unless, you want to count every member who has posted there and compare them to those who post everywhere else. This really does not help you.

I think its a pretty ridiculous assumption that you think a series that was made international by smash has a fanbase that mostly doesn't play smashbros.

Then you're asking me to find people that care about both Fire Emblem and Smash, while not caring about Smash.
...Do you not see the sheer stupidity of that? People cannot both care and not care for the same thing; it's an illogical fallacy.

Both as in smash and FE. Guess I need to be more clear?

 

[Uranium235]

This is just too tempting

 

[Deleted member]

Strangely enough, I see Marth, Ike, Roy and Chrom all being planned for this game due to Sakurai's love for the franchise. Sakurai will almost certainly want to bring Roy back, yet would probably also want to supply the franchise with a newcomer. Yet, I doubt we are going to get all four this game (unless the off-chance DLC occurs, then all four are practically guarantee to get in). As such, I see either Roy or Chrom getting the axe due to time constraints (there's a slight chance for Ike, but I highly doubt that will happen).

Like --- said, it really boils down to what Sakurai thinks is the best for the franchise and it's for this reason why Chrom still remains a possibility, even if he's not exactly the most attractive option.

 

[Deleted member]

I didn't think it would. Telling me I should be ashamed didn't help you cause either so I thought it was appropriate.

So, being told that a pitiful point in an argument should make you feel ashamed means it is appropriate to use incorrect slander and exaggerations as a way to "get back"?
Whatever helps you sleep tonight.

A lot of people join the boards, make a post or two and never come back. That happens on a lot of forums. Also, there are 15,000 replies in that section. Logically its possible that all 6,000 members have made a post there. Unless, you want to count every member who has posted there and compare them to those who post everywhere else. This really does not help you.

I think its a pretty ridiculous assumption that you think a series that was made international by smash has a fanbase that mostly doesn't play smashbros.

"15,000 replies" is not something to assume helps you.
People post more than once in a thread. Some much more than others.
So really, your source helps neither of us and we cannot claim either way is accurate due to lack of actual proof.

And it's also a ridiculous assumption that you think that just because a series became international due to Smash Bros. that it automatically means a majority of its fanbase plays Smash. There are other factors at work that you do not seem to grasp.

Both as in smash and FE. Guess I need to be more clear?

You are still asking for two different things.
So no, you don't need to be more "clear". You need to decide what in the Hell you want from me.
This is literally what you have done:
"I've shown that there are people that care for both. Now show me that there are people that only care for FE.
But before you go and do that, they better care for both."

Do you still not get how stupid that is? You are
a) Telling me to show that there are people that only care for FE, but they have to care for both at the same time, which is impossible. They can't care for Smash and NOT care for Smash at the same damn time.
b) Telling me to show proof for my side of the argument, then telling me to show proof for your side at the same time, something you already attempted to do.

Get it now?

 

[Gingerbread Man]

"15,000 replies" is not something to assume helps you.
People post more than once in a thread. Some much more than others.
So really, your source helps neither of us and we cannot claim either way is accurate due to lack of actual proof.

And it's also a ridiculous assumption that you think that just because a series became international due to Smash Bros. that it automatically means a majority of its fanbase plays Smash. There are other factors at work that you do not seem to grasp.

I sent that link to show that people who care for both exist. And that there are a lot of them. I was expecting some sort of proof that people who only care for FE exists. And that there are a lot of them. We know the theoretical people I talk about exists. The burden of proof would fall on you to show that the apparently majority who don't care about smash exist.

Keep in mind, this whole ratio between FE fans thing was a point you first brought up. underlined and everything, it seemed like you were certain. Now I challenged that point, and you expect me to take on this giant task while you yourself have not provided the slightest bit of evidence?

You are still asking for two different things.
So no, you don't need to be more "clear". You need to decide what in the Hell you want from me.
This is literally what you have done:
"I've shown that there are people that care for both. Now show me that there are people that only care for FE.
But before you go and do that, they better care for both."

Do you still not get how stupid that is? You are
a) Telling me to show that there are people that only care for FE, but they have to care for both at the same time, which is impossible. They can't care for Smash and NOT care for Smash at the same damn time.
b) Telling me to show proof for my side of the argument, then telling me to show proof for your side at the same time, something you already attempted to do.

Get it now?

What I was talking about goes back to the beginning of the argument before you threw in this wild ratio. I was saying that the people who should have the most say on the FE roster are the people who care about both FE and smash because they are the well informed.

 

[Deleted member]

I sent that link to show that people who care for both exist. And that there are a lot of them. I was expect some sort of proof that people who only care for FE exists. And that there are a lot of them. We know the theoretical people I talk about exists. The burden of proof would fall on you to show that the apparently majority who don't care about smash exist.

At which point I don't have to, as you did it for me. All you have done with your source is proven both sides exist and both sides have great numbers.
The only thing that remains is to prove which there is more of. Simple logic dictates that there is less people on that forum that care about Smash.
Most you can go for now is a stalemate, in that there is no legitimate source to go by for either side. Otherwise, you have only proven my side to be correct on accident so far.

Keep in mind, this whole ratio between FE fans thing was a point you first brought up. underlined and everything, it seemed like you were certain. Now I challenged that point, and you expect me to take on this giant task while you yourself have not provided the slightest bit of evidence?

You challenged me, and yet did nothing to give proof to your side and saved me the trouble of given proof for my side.
So really, this "giant task" is more in my favor. I don't need to provide evidence, as you have done it for me while failing to supply evidence for yourself.

What I was talking about goes back to the beginning of the argument before you threw in this wild ratio. I was saying that the people who should have the most say on the FE roster are the people who care about both FE and smash because they are the well informed.

Then you shouldn't have said your case as an addendum to your demand.

Now wheres your "I'm an FE fan and don't care about smash" group?


And before you answer that, I'm talking about people who care about both.

This has no implication whatsoever that you are talking about your initial point, and instead are giving me a conflicting demand.

Aside from that, your initial statement was simply "FE fans".

Secondly, FE fans should be the ones catered to. They're the ones who have been exposed to everything the series has to offer. Its like voting without being informed versus being informed.

No mention of Smash fans anywhere. Just FE fans because they play FE.

So pretty much, the whole issue is because you have poor communication.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

I'm tired of arguing this.

lets just grant the argument that the majority of FE fans do not care about smash.
I think everyone here is already sold on the game. We are already going to buy it. I'd probably still buy it even if Chrom or Robin didn't make it in. Heck I may even buy it if no FE characters made the cut (granted I'd be pissed). But the people who we KNOW will not buy the game without these FE characters are the FE fans who don't care about smash. Wouldn't it make sense to add in a new FE character they would be excited for in order to make an attempt at grasping those potential customers?

The other reason Sakurai might add a FE character is to promote the game (which we know he likes to do). Marth, Ike, and Roy won't help IS out much. Roy's game was never released outside Japan and Ike and Marth's are probably just going through used game bins, not providing any revenue for nintendo. The best at promoting the series is a recent rep. One that's already in the spotlight and being talked about.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

No mention of Smash fans anywhere. Just FE fans because they play FE.

So pretty much, the whole issue is because you have poor communication.

I amended that in a later statement.

Anyways, you can eat up my argument now. Its late and I'm going to bed. Anything you say, I'll read tomorrow. But I probably wont give it a response because I don't want to derail whatever the future topic is. Good night.

 

[Deleted member]

"Which we know he likes to do".
There is absolutely no proof on that whatsoever. The ONLY case of promotion was Roy, and even then, there was more than just promotion as reasoning.

As for the FE fans that don't care for Smash Bros., it's unlikely that they will magically care about Smash just because of a certain character.
As I said, there are other factors to consider. Something you keep failing to grasp.
-Not everybody likes Smash itself.
-Not everybody likes fighting games.
-Not everybody likes games that aren't like Fire Emblem.
etc.
Having a certain character is not going to change that.

 

[FourStar]

can we please talk about something else. like i really wanna talk about the hopeful pokemon characters since everyone wants mewtwo and lucario in the next game

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

In my opinion (not to join in on an argument) I happen to like Chrom. I will admit that his character is a bit generic, with the whole vengeance plot and being strong willed blah blah blah. But the reason he will stick with me is because Awakening was my first Fire Emblem game, and he stuck out to me.

Chrom may be generic, but he is certainly different from Marth in personality and figure. Just think about this image for a sec. I remember someone saying Chrom should be a skin for Marth. However, that would be ridiculous. Chrom using Marth's stance in Smash Bros. would be completely out of character, and wouldn't be a good representation of Chrom in general. Chrom would imo need to be his own character, and could quite honestly have a unique moveset. This is Sakurai and Namco we're talking about here.

Also, consider this. Let's say Ike was chosen by IS because he was recent, or the "new and exciting thing" along with his game. It is arguable that Roy was the same thing based off of Sakurai, however Roy was to be included in Brawl, meaning he wasn't getting rid of him. If he goes to IS and wants their input, they very well could say Chrom, because his game is their "new and exciting thing" whether people like it or not. Recency DOES mean something in this case. Again, arguably, each character besides Marth was brought in because of that.

 

[Deleted member]

There is no reason to believe IS wanted Ike because he was the most recent.
There is no reason to believe Sakurai wanted to include Ike because he was the most recent.

Sakurai isn't under any obligation to include a character for the sole purpose of being the most recent. He has his reasoning.
For Roy, it was that he believed Roy was a character that would obtain popularity easily (he was not wrong), and his fire sword stood out from other options for a Marth clone. That, and he served as promotion for not just his upcoming game, but for the series as a whole.
For Ike, it was that Ike offered a unique contrasting style from Marth, being slow and powerful as opposed to weak and fast.

The best people can think of for Chrom is an in-between, and that's boring as can be. And with the fact too many comparisons are drawn between Chrom to Marth and Ike should lead people to understand that Chrom has nothing going for him but recency, however, that isn't going to help him.
Especially since near EVERY FE lord is now recent due to Awakening and the upcoming SMT X FE.

EDIT: Also, saying Chrom can have a unique moveset because "this is Sakurai we're talking about here" is kind of silly.
Sakurai made Captain Ganon, after all.

 

[Uranium235]

can we please talk about something else. like i really wanna talk about the hopeful pokemon characters since everyone wants mewtwo and lucario in the next game

I can see blaziken feasibly making the cut, especially if lucario goes away (though this is not likely). The would probably include one of the newer ones from the newest generation (i really havent followed pokemon for years so i dont even know which generation this is lol) i also think they could find room for deoxys if they dont add blaziken

 

[Dark Phazon]

I can see blaziken feasibly making the cut, especially if lucario goes away (though this is not likely). The would probably include one of the newer ones from the newest generation (i really havent followed pokemon for years so i dont even know which generation this is lol) i also think they could find room for deoxys if they dont add blaziken

Hmmm yh..but i dont see Mewtwo & Deoxys both getting in...tbh...imo...

 

[Uranium235]

Hmmm yh..but i dont see Mewtwo & Deoxys both getting in...tbh...imo...

This is going to sound very strange but i cant see more than one character cut from melee returning to brawl. Mewtwo probably would be the favorite but i still dont see it as too likely

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This is going to sound very strange but i cant see more than one character cut from melee returning to brawl. Mewtwo probably would be the favorite but i still dont see it as too likely

Did you know that Mewtwo's new form is the new mascot for generation 6?

 

[Dark Phazon]

Did you know that Mewtwo's new form is the new mascot for generation 6?

Is it the Mascott though for real?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Is it the Mascott though for real?

He's the Lucario/Zoroark of this generation. So yeah.

 

[Uranium235]

I

Did you know that Mewtwo's new form is the new mascot for generation 6?

I had not heard of this. Let me guess hes called mewthree?

 

[Dark Phazon]

He's the Lucario/Zoroark of this generation. So yeah.

Yh he very well could be defo but dunno its not a sure bet...it could be a poke they havent revealed yet...its too early to say officially imo.

This is him...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I
I had not heard of this. Let me guess hes called mewthree?

Nah. Just the awakened form of Mewtwo.

He can switch between this form and his normal form.

Yh he very well could be defo but dunno its not a sure bet...it could be a poke they havent revealed yet...its too early to say officially imo.

This is him...View attachment 671

NINJA'D WHILE I WAS WRITING THIS!!!

I think the fact that Mewtwo stars in the new pokemon movie is enough evidence.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You know, I think Chrom sounds much more boring on paper than he could potentially be in the game.

 

[Dark Phazon]

What does ''Ninjad while i was writing this'' mean?
Or the term ''Ninjad?''

 

[Uranium235]

They should really call him mewthree...

 

[Dark Phazon]

You know, I think Chrom sounds much more boring on paper than he could potentially be in the game.

Please diddy i love you but No FE talk..please..pretty please...plz....

Please..


Plz

Please.........

 

[Uranium235]

If gingerbread man and goldenyuiitusin are on there will only be more arguing

 

[FalKoopa]

If gingerbread man and goldenyuiitusin are on there will only be more arguing

It's their way of making love.

Especially notable, considering Golden hasn't added him to his ignore list yet.

 

[Uranium235]

It's their way of making love.

Especially notable, considering Golden hasn't added him to his ignore list yet.

Im sorry but i did not need to hear that

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Im sorry but i did not need to hear that

Gotten toughen you up somehow.

There there rookie. This is the norm.

 

[Uranium235]

B

Gotten toughen you up somehow.

There there rookie. This is the norm.

But theres never anything bad on the internet!

 

[FalKoopa]

But theres never anything bad on the internet!

What? The internet can be good, bad or ugly as you see it and make of it. I suggest you to brace yourself.