Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[iCeKnIgHt]

Ehh... I don't know how to say this but the Ice Climbers are above Pikachu
.n_n.

i know i found them

i love the way the melee announcer guy says samus. It's like Sah-muss

 

[Seraphim.]

Now, I just gotta ask cause I'm curious...

If Chrom was in SSB4, and he was unique, how would you feel? Would you be okay with that? Would you prefer someone else?

Well of course I would rather have Roy, but if Chrom does end up being unique then I see no problem.

 

[iCeKnIgHt]

what do you guys think that if Ridley gets confirmed, what final smash should he have? (not that i need final smashes anyways...

 

[NickerBocker]

what do you guys think that if Ridley gets confirmed, what final smash should he have? (not that i need final smashes anyways...

Giga-Ridley
But wait, hes already too big

 

[SuperBrawler]

YES!!! Someone who actually wants mk AND Ridley!!! ... but no ice climbers... never mind found them. You sneaky squirrel...

Who doesn't? Everyone thinks Ridley is a shoo-in. And no one thinks there is any reason MK should be cut.

 

[iCeKnIgHt]

Who doesn't? Everyone thinks Ridley is a shoo-in. And no one thinks there is any reason MK should be cut.

i thought everyone hated Ridley and thought mk was annoying... (I only think spammer characters are annoying)

 

[Deleted member]

Fine then, he's the second most popular pokemon IN AMERICA, and 7th in Japan...better?

No, because it takes from just one (technically two) source of data with skewed results.

One being a poll that's not unlike all other game website polls that do a Top Whatever Characters, and another that was painfully obviously influenced by the factor that the winning Pokémon would be distributed (some kid could have Charmander as his favorite Pokémon, but he votes Arceus so he can get one, for example).
Not only that, but Mewtwo wasn't 7th; he was 10th.

Oh joy. Guess now I have to exit ignorant moron mode and make valid arguments since you decided to get on my case again Golden. Let's begin.

My point was completely...well, pointless. I guess what I'm getting at is the fact that Pac-Man is iconic, but he is not massively popular anymore. Look at Sonic and Mega Man. They are iconic AS WELL AS popular right now. People practically got on both knees and begged for Mega Man, and especially Sonic to be in Smash. There are interesting characters who have massive fan appeal and iconic status.

Sonic, yes. But then again, that's mainly to do with the admittedly rabid Sonic fanbase.
Mega Man? He may have been the 2nd most requested guest after Sonic, but he was nowhere near Sonic's level. Not for Brawl, and not even pre-SSB4. Ironically, Mega Man's "popularity" at this point is most likely attributed to Capcom's perceived negligence of the character and franchise. Before E3, there were plenty that were convinced he would not appear in Smash as a result.

Look at Pac. He's iconic but that's it. People weren't saying, "Pac should be in, he's awesome!" "Pac-Man is such a cool character, I hope he makes it!" Not the case at all. People saw Namco developing Smash, thus they go, "Well I guess Pac-Man makes sense. He's iconic so sure." Iconic status or recognizability =/= popularity by any means. Pac is a recognized and iconic gaming figure no doubt, but popular now? Not at all. People aren't clamoring for a new Pac-Man game. The masses don't line up to get new Pac games or even pay attention to when they come out. The general populous just knows who he is. That's it. I think Pac definitely deserves a stage, AT appearance, or something along those line, but not an actual playable.

Actually, I see quiet Pac-Man fans coming out of the woodwork making an attempt to raise support for him now that they feel the confidence in his potential addition that they didn't previously because they had rabid Sonic fans, persistent Mega Man fans, and loud Geno fans drowning out any other guest support for Brawl. And the sad thing is, they are still being forcibly silenced for very stupid reasons.

At the same time, as much as Mega Man seems to get fuss for Smash, no one really cared that much about new games coming out until they were cancelled. Then people started to care.

Well now you might say, "Well Bajef, look at Mr. G&W, R.O.B. or 'X character'. They made it in." My answer is simple; those are Nintendo character, important to Nintendo's history. Not some 3rd party character, but actual Ninty history. Pac is Namco/Midway history. Important to gaming history itself yes, but not important enough to Nintendo. Smash is a Nintendo All Stars game, featuring 2 big names (and still relevant and popular characters at that) that are still on Ninty consoles. Pac-Man is neither a popular character anymore, nor is he really relevant to gaming anymore. Epic piece of history, thus deserving of some sort of recognition in Smash, but not a playable.

Except that wouldn't have been an argument of mine. I'm already well aware that Nintendo's own characters are in a different plane than guests (although, the Ice Climbers are not even important to Nintendo's history, honestly...).
However, you can't say that Mega Man is still relevant and popular while Pac-Man is not. You just can't. Mega Man (Classic) hasn't had a game since when? 2010? (No, Street Fighter X Mega Man doesn't count; that was a fangame that Capcom essentially paid the developer to be able to market it) Oppositely, Pac-Man's getting a new game later this month. And a compilation title towards the Christmas season. And before both, he had a brand new title (Pac-Man Tilt) featured in 2011's Pac-Man and Galaga Dimensions. If Pac-Man is "irrelevant", what does that make Mega Man?
As for popularity, you can't really judge that, can you?

Also, to note, it's pointless to argue Snake since he's an exception that breaks normal rules for establishing a 3rd party in Smash. It's like arguing in science but basing your thesis on the anomaly rather than the norms.

An exception?
He's the one that started the trend. The only "rules" Sakurai has given for guests is that they must have appeared on a Nintendo platform and by what he said earlier this year, be a "special situation".
Pac-Man has been on Nintendo platforms, is one of the biggest icons in gaming (considered to be bigger than Mario), and is the mascot of the company that is assisting with Smash 4's development. Pretty sure Pac-Man fits along the "normal rules" far more than any example you could give from Tales.

To Mario Kart GP, it's extremely obvious that Namco put Pac and the ghosts in because they developed those games AND they were arcade games. Seems kinda forced to add him just because you worked on the game IMO. But that's purely opinion.

There's only three Pac-Man characters in those games. And two of them ain't even in the third game.
We had Pac-Man, Mrs. Pac-Man, and Blinky in GP 1 and GP 2. (And Pac-Man alone in DX)
The other two Namco characters were Mametchi (GP 2 only) from the Tamagatchi franchise, which is not an arcade series, and Don-chan (DX only) from the Taiko no Tatsujin series, which, while being a hit arcade series in Japan, has more titles outside the arcade than in it.

And it's no more forced than Mario Hoops 3-on-3 and Mario Sports Mix having 5 Final Fantasy characters (as well as Slime from Dragon Quest in Sports Mix, with a Behemoth and a Behemoth King from FF being boss fights) because Square-Enix developed those games.

Also, once again you proclaim to know something about me, yet the very opposite is true. Referring to your Tales fanboyism statement, I've never played a Tales game in my life. Fanboy? Far from it, I can tell you that. I just know that Lloyd is the most prominent figure from those games, IE one of Namco's recent (and by recent I mean successful outside of the 80s) titles that does very well. All Namco is known for in the 90s up to present, when it comes to franchises, are the Tales, Tekken, and Soul series. Thus why I say Lloyd makes the best sense for a Namco character, because Sakurai said he didn't wanna add characters form fighting games to Smash AKA Tekken and Soul.

Could've fooled me.
But this tells me that instead of being a fanboy, you know little of the series and make assumptions based on personal observation. Lloyd is not the most prominent figure from the series. That title arguably goes to Cless Alvein, the hero of the original title and a recurring character in the overall franchise. One would say he's the "Marth" of Tales. It also helps that his silhouette is used for the franchise logo.
Lloyd is also not the most popular character of the series either, before you attempt that claim. That title goes to Yuri Lowell from Tales of Vesperia, who has been ranked the most popular character on Namco's official Tales of Popularity polls in Japan for three consecutive years (and was entered in a Hall of Fame for that feat this year at the cost of being excluded from future Popularity polls).

Pac's ties with Nintendo have been dwindling since the Cube days, and those days were pathetic as they were just a bunch of nonsense games released across all the then-current consoles. Pac is dying as a game franchise, however, he will always be a recognized gaming icon and figure. That's why I see him as being an awkward or forced addition, if he happens to make it in. If Pac-Man had been a 1st party character, Nintendo's own history, then I'd completely 180 and say he should be in. That's not the case though.

Pac's ties are dwindling less than Tales' ties. Nintendo's been missing out on a lot of newer games as of late, including the remakes of the originally Nintendo exclusive Symphonia titles.

 

[SuperBrawler]

i thought everyone hated Ridley and thought mk was annoying... (I only think spammer characters are annoying)

Why would they cut MK? One of the main villains who is important to the series. Sure, they coud just nerf him a bit. No one hates Ridley unless they are idiots who don't know anything about Smash.

 

[NickerBocker]

i thought everyone hated Ridley and thought mk was annoying... (I only think spammer characters are annoying)

I dont think so. Theyre gonna tone down MK a bunch for balancing. And Ridley is one of the most wanted newcomers outside people that think he is too big, which is ridiculous.

 

[iCeKnIgHt]

Well if anyone owns a wii u, miiverse is a bad inspiration.

I dont think so. Theyre gonna tone down MK a bunch for balancing. And Ridley is one of the most wanted newcomers outside people that think he is too big, which is ridiculous.

ikr? think about how big he was in Super Metroid.

 

[Deleted member]

I read it on an article about Japan voting for their top pokemon, and if that's the case, I can remove the top three and start from there, then it'd be #1: Pikachu, #2: Meowth, #3: Eevee, #4: Mewtwo and Lucario goes up by three spots, these are genuine pokemon I know Japan would vote for.

Meowth was not on the poll; Mew was.
Mewtwo was not 7th, he was 10th. Behind Mew, Shaymin, and Rayquaza.

 

[NickerBocker]

ikr? think about how big he was in Super Metroid.

They can scale him down fo sho. He was already smaller in the melee intro, and he has different sizes across the board.

 

[Bajef8]

Sonic, yes. But then again, that's mainly to do with the admittedly rabid Sonic fanbase.
Mega Man? He may have been the 2nd most requested guest after Sonic, but he was nowhere near Sonic's level. Not for Brawl, and not even pre-SSB4. Ironically, Mega Man's "popularity" at this point is most likely attributed to Capcom's perceived negligence of the character and franchise. Before E3, there were plenty that were convinced he would not appear in Smash as a result.


Actually, I see quiet Pac-Man fans coming out of the woodwork making an attempt to raise support for him now that they feel the confidence in his potential addition that they didn't previously because they had rabid Sonic fans, persistent Mega Man fans, and loud Geno fans drowning out any other guest support for Brawl. And the sad thing is, they are still being forcibly silenced for very stupid reasons.

At the same time, as much as Mega Man seems to get fuss for Smash, no one really cared that much about new games coming out until they were cancelled. Then people started to care.


Except that wouldn't have been an argument of mine. I'm already well aware that Nintendo's own characters are in a different plane than guests (although, the Ice Climbers are not even important to Nintendo's history, honestly...).
However, you can't say that Mega Man is still relevant and popular while Pac-Man is not. You just can't. Mega Man (Classic) hasn't had a game since when? 2010? (No, Street Fighter X Mega Man doesn't count; that was a fangame that Capcom essentially paid the developer to be able to market it) Oppositely, Pac-Man's getting a new game later this month. And a compilation title towards the Christmas season. And before both, he had a brand new title (Pac-Man Tilt) featured in 2011's Pac-Man and Galaga Dimensions. If Pac-Man is "irrelevant", what does that make Mega Man?
As for popularity, you can't really judge that, can you?


An exception?
He's the one that started the trend. The only "rules" Sakurai has given for guests is that they must have appeared on a Nintendo platform and by what he said earlier this year, be a "special situation".
Pac-Man has been on Nintendo platforms, is one of the biggest icons in gaming (considered to be bigger than Mario), and is the mascot of the company that is assisting with Smash 4's development. Pretty sure Pac-Man fits along the "normal rules" far more than any example you could give from Tales.


There's only three Pac-Man characters in those games. And two of them ain't even in the third game.
We had Pac-Man, Mrs. Pac-Man, and Blinky in GP 1 and GP 2. (And Pac-Man alone in DX)
The other two Namco characters were Mametchi (GP 2 only) from the Tamagatchi franchise, which is not an arcade series, and Don-chan (DX only) from the Taiko no Tatsujin series, which, while being a hit arcade series in Japan, has more titles outside the arcade than in it.

And it's no more forced than Mario Hoops 3-on-3 and Mario Sports Mix having 5 Final Fantasy characters (as well as Slime from Dragon Quest in Sports Mix, with a Behemoth and a Behemoth King from FF being boss fights) because Square-Enix developed those games.


Could've fooled me.
But this tells me that instead of being a fanboy, you know little of the series and make assumptions based on personal observation. Lloyd is not the most prominent figure from the series. That title arguably goes to Cless Alvein, the hero of the original title and a recurring character in the overall franchise. One would say he's the "Marth" of Tales. It also helps that his silhouette is used for the franchise logo.
Lloyd is also not the most popular character of the series either, before you attempt that claim. That title goes to Yuri Lowell from Tales of Vesperia, who has been ranked the most popular character on Namco's official Tales of Popularity polls in Japan for three consecutive years (and was entered in a Hall of Fame for that feat this year at the cost of being excluded from future Popularity polls).


Pac's ties are dwindling less than Tales' ties. Nintendo's been missing out on a lot of newer games as of late, including the remakes of the originally Nintendo exclusive Symphonia titles.

Geeez you'll always find lame points to nitpick. Yaaarg. Here we go again.

Pac-Man fans coming out of the woodwork? Seriously? People enjoy Mega Man as a character, they go and buy his games. He's a big seller. Look at reaction videos and such following Mega Man's reveal. Massive fan excitement and appeal. The same would not happen with Pac. Pac-Man isn't a big seller anymore, and he hasn't been since the 80s and early 90s. Pac-Man has been reduced to half-***ed games that don't do well. People don't get excited about the next Pac game. The general gaming population doesn't care. Seriously how can you even argue that Pac-Man has any impact anymore? Go on the street and ask whom people prefer, Pac or Mega Man. You're gonna get a lot more Mega Mans, trust me. Except maybe from 40+ year olds, and even then many of them like Mega Man.

My whole Ice Climber, Mr. G&W point wasn't directed towards you at all, so chill. It was directed to the inevitable other people who would try to jump on my arguments with the wrong logic, as is what usually happens.

Once again, you are also one of the people who falls into the trap of thinking icon = popularity. Not true at all. He's not a popular character, he's a well known character. Need a better example? Hitler is well known. He's not popular.

Your Pac-Man is bigger than Mario argument is entirely flawed because it was recognizability that was assesed. And I believe Pac only won that by a percent. Come one now.

His "rules" which are pointless to debate anyway, have pretty much been they need to be a massive character. One worty of being in Smash. He's personally stated he's not just throwing any ole 3rd party in.....except Snake. IE the exception

Mario Kart GP adding Pac/Namco characters = forced.
3 on 3 having Square characters = forced.
These aren't guestsadded based on some special merit, they're added because company x developed the game, therefore character(s) x were added for funzies.

Why are you arguing Tales with me? I'm not saying either will happen, in fact I'm saying neither will. I'd prefer any Tales character over Pac though. I like how you really think I'm a Tales fanboy for suggesting Lloyd. Seriously? If I was such a fanboy, how do you know more about Tales than I? Makes sense doesn't it, seeing as I'm such a big fanboy, yet I don't know anything about the series -___-

 

[courte]

are people still saying why would he be cut he's important to the series/nintendo's history around these parts?

 

[Johnknight1]

Technically yeah, they could've, but he is that important to Iwata. He's the first piece of Smash, everything else comes after. At least to Iwata (and therefore Nintendo).

I still think he's overrated. *points at the additions to Brawl and laughs hysterically, until the point he realizes it is depressing to think about*

You're right, but like I said, Nintendo (Iwata) wants Sakurai secured first and foremost, so while indeed they could've started before Sakurai was ready to start focusing on Smash, it's not something they would do.

Well he could give them his master plans, trust in his other top executives and producers who more or less do the same job. Well, that is except for doing interviews and being "the face" of Smash Bros. Seriously guys, Smash Bros. needs another "face." The same is true with Zelda now that I think about it.

Capcom won't pick up on it, they're dumber than the town, and I'm going to be killing everybody from the inside, so what do I care?

MURDERER!!! YOU KILLED CLOVER STUDIOS, DIDN'T YOU=???

 

[Deleted member]

Geeez you'll always find lame points to nitpick. Yaaarg. Here we go again.

Pac-Man fans coming out of the woodwork? Seriously? People enjoy Mega Man as a character, they go and buy his games. He's a big seller. Look at reaction videos and such following Mega Man's reveal. Massive fan excitement and appeal. The same would not happen with Pac. Pac-Man isn't a big seller anymore, and he hasn't been since the 80s and early 90s. Pac-Man has been reduced to half-***ed games that don't do well. People don't get excited about the next Pac game. The general gaming population doesn't care. Seriously how can you even argue that Pac-Man has any impact anymore? Go on the street and ask whom people prefer, Pac or Mega Man. You're gonna get a lot more Mega Mans, trust me. Except maybe from 40+ year olds, and even then many of them like Mega Man.

Tell me the last game Mega Man had that was a big seller. Go on. Do it.
I'll give you a hint, it was quite a while back. It's a big reason why Capcom has put the series on hiatus.
You seriously overplay Mega Man when the reality is, he's just as washed up as you claim Pac-Man to be. Only difference is that Mega Man has "stopped" and people whine about it.

My whole Ice Climber, Mr. G&W point wasn't directed towards you at all, so chill. It was directed to the inevitable other people who would try to jump on my arguments with the wrong logic, as is what usually happens.

Don't want me to respond to a point, don't use it in a discussion that is directed to me. Simple.

Once again, you are also one of the people who falls into the trap of thinking icon = popularity. Not true at all. He's not a popular character, he's a well known character. Need a better example? Hitler is well known. He's not popular.

Are you seriously comparing Pac-Man....to Hitler...?

....we're done here.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Comparing Pac-Man to Hitler?

Really?


I think it's more like this.

Superman = Pac-Man

Batman = Megaman

Superman is much more well known and is a huge icon. People respect him and like him. But most people don't seem to LOVE him.

Batman isn't as iconic as Superman (though still iconic in his own right) but seems to be LOVED by more people.

Now the real question is....

What does Sakurai view as more important?

 

[Deleted member]

No, the real question is....

why have we not seen the connection sooner?!

 

[Johnknight1]

I guess you could say Wii Fit Trainer already best encapsulates the casual genre since Wii Fit was the absolute craze for awhile there. Still, Mii's make a lot of sense, and considering Sakurai changed his mind on Villager, I can see the same happening for them.

Well both the Villager and the Wii Fit Trainer are from more "casual gamer orientated" and non-action/violent franchises, and both have obviously been giant blockbusters. However, the biggest blockbusters is still the Wii series, and with it, the Miis have become recognizable creations that hundreds of millions of people are familiar with. In the near future Miis may be more recognizable than even Mario himself.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

No, the real question is....

why have we not seen the connection sooner?!

You just drew that didn't you?

Because that thing is glorious!

 

[Deleted member]

I was going to quickly make a doodle.

...but if you think it, it's on the Internet somewhere.

 

[Johnknight1]

Once again, you are also one of the people who falls into the trap of thinking icon = popularity. Not true at all. He's not a popular character, he's a well known character. Need a better example? Hitler is well known. He's not popular.

 

[N3ON]

I still think he's overrated. *points at the additions to Brawl and laughs hysterically, until the point he realizes it is depressing to think about*

Not to turn this into a Melee vs. Brawl discussion, but Sakurai did succeed in making Brawl fairly close to how he wanted. I'm not saying it's better, I'm not saying Sakurai did a flawless job (hardly), both games have their strengths and weaknesses, but it's not like Sakurai was ever out to create a Melee 2.0, or even a game to be played in a competitive setting. The highly competitive focus of Smash isn't even close to Sakurai's priority. Pleasing the people here isn't his primary objective, and by and large most people were pleased with Brawl.

Well he could give them his master plans, trust in his other top executives and producers who more or less do the same job. Well, that is except for doing interviews and being "the face" of Smash Bros. Seriously guys, Smash Bros. needs another "face." The same is true with Zelda now that I think about it.

He could but he won't. Sakurai has his talons in Smash just as Miyamoto has his talons in... everything Nintendo.

MURDERER!!! YOU KILLED CLOVER STUDIOS, DIDN'T YOU=???

Nah, Capcom decided the lynch them themselves.

Well if anyone owns a wii u, miiverse is a bad inspiration.

Try to ease up on the double and triple posting please. Thanks.

 

[Johnknight1]

If I have to rank the remaining sword-based characters left, I'd probably have my list something like this:

1: Saki Amamiya (gunblade, but still)
2: Shulk
3: Takamaru
4: Isaac
5: Fire Emblem char.

If we're talking purely sword-based moves (and not say gun moves or the whole moveset), and purely relevant characters, I'd argue Lyn is relevant.

And my list would be (in order left being the highest and right being the lowest): Takamaru, Lyn, Samurai Goroh, Shulk, and Saki.

but if we're talking whole moveset, I would have to go: Isaac, Shulk, Takamaru, Lyn, and Samurai Goroh.

 

[Deleted member]

Can we even label Saki a sword-user?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Good evening ladies and germs! Tonight we bring you the latest episode of "Golden VS Bajef: The Pac-man Chronicles."

Stay tuned for a preview of the next episode of "Hotfeet VS Saturn: The Pokemon Chronicles."

 

[N3ON]

Can we even label Saki a sword-user?

Well it is called a Cannon Sword, and the sword part could be seen as functioning similarly to a beam sword so... yeah probably. imo it's a rather arbitrary category anyway considering how diverse swords and their resulting potential movesets can be.

 

[Johnknight1]

Can we even label Saki a sword-user?

I just consider all his gun moves sword moves, since it technically is the same weapon, lol.

i thought everyone hated Ridley and thought mk was annoying... (I only think spammer characters are annoying)

Only idiots hate Ridley (he's got so much potential as a playable character), and only fools like Meta Knight in Brawl... or at least how poorly balanced he is.

Of course, the problems with Meta Knight are fixed with proper balancing and a more offensive-friendly game that punishes campers and stallers harder.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Where is Saki from anyway? I know a bit about Shulk and Takamaru, but not Saki.

 

[IsmaR]

People label Ganondorf a sword user. Let them label him whatever they like.

 

[N3ON]

Where is Saki from anyway? I know a bit about Shulk and Takamaru, but not Saki.

Sin & Punishment, a Japan-only N64 game developed by Treasure (it's on the VC though).

It's a rail shooter, Sakurai likes rail shooters, therefore people think he has a chance.

 

[Johnknight1]

Not to turn this into a Melee vs. Brawl discussion, but Sakurai did succeed in making Brawl fairly close to how he wanted. I'm not saying it's better, I'm not saying Sakurai did a flawless job (hardly), both games have their strengths and weaknesses, but it's not like Sakurai was ever out to create a Melee 2.0, or even a game to be played in a competitive setting. The highly competitive focus of Smash isn't even close to Sakurai's priority. Pleasing the people here isn't his primary objective, and by and large most people were pleased with Brawl.

I was more thinking about how poorly planned the game was. In a time where everything is going multiplayer-orientated (which favors Smash Bros HUGELY!!!), Sakurai instead spent most of the funding and the development time on the single/two-player adventure mode that doesn't work online in what ended up being minimally better than what Melee had.

Oh, and tripping.

And lastly, the whole anti-competitive everything Brawl was, which honestly I feel even took away from the casual experience of said game.

But ultimately, those were the only 2 things I was thinking of, because both of those are universally panned.

Of course, those could be things not done by Sakurai per say, but as the "head of Smash Bros.", he will ultimately get blamed forever.

He could but he won't. Sakurai has his talons in Smash just as Miyamoto has his talons in... everything Nintendo.

Well maybe that's why a new Smash game has its' lowest hype ever (seriously, I thought we'd have 5 times the posters; SmashBoards' Brawl Boards back in the pre-Brawldays at this point in development had about 3-5 times the regular posters), and why the Wii U is possibly the least hyped Nintendo console ever with the worst launch period of any Nintendo console ever.

Of course, Sakurai seems to be more hands off, since his studio is probably more talented in terms of developmental skills than he is, given how successful Tekken and Soul Calibur have been as relevant and amazing fighting game franchises.

Nah, Capcom decided the lynch them themselves.

Their top execs sure did. They fired everyone good, gave themselves huge bonuses, screwed over fans with tons of paid DLC, and re-released everything for the fans to re-buy with minimal new content for a way too high of a price tag.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Sin & Punishment, a Japan-only N64 game developed by Treasure.

It's a rail shooter, Sakurai likes rail shooters, therefore people think he has a chance.

Thanks. Ah, now I recognize Saki. It's been a while since I've looked Saki's Brawl trophy.

 

[Zhadgon]

Geeez you'll always find lame points to nitpick. Yaaarg. Here we go again.

Pac-Man fans coming out of the woodwork? Seriously? People enjoy Mega Man as a character, they go and buy his games. He's a big seller. Look at reaction videos and such following Mega Man's reveal. Massive fan excitement and appeal. The same would not happen with Pac. Pac-Man isn't a big seller anymore, and he hasn't been since the 80s and early 90s. Pac-Man has been reduced to half-***ed games that don't do well. People don't get excited about the next Pac game. The general gaming population doesn't care. Seriously how can you even argue that Pac-Man has any impact anymore? Go on the street and ask whom people prefer, Pac or Mega Man. You're gonna get a lot more Mega Mans, trust me. Except maybe from 40+ year olds, and even then many of them like Mega Man.

My whole Ice Climber, Mr. G&W point wasn't directed towards you at all, so chill. It was directed to the inevitable other people who would try to jump on my arguments with the wrong logic, as is what usually happens.

Once again, you are also one of the people who falls into the trap of thinking icon = popularity. Not true at all. He's not a popular character, he's a well known character. Need a better example? Hitler is well known. He's not popular.

Your Pac-Man is bigger than Mario argument is entirely flawed because it was recognizability that was assesed. And I believe Pac only won that by a percent. Come one now.

His "rules" which are pointless to debate anyway, have pretty much been they need to be a massive character. One worty of being in Smash. He's personally stated he's not just throwing any ole 3rd party in.....except Snake. IE the exception

Mario Kart GP adding Pac/Namco characters = forced.
3 on 3 having Square characters = forced.
These aren't guestsadded based on some special merit, they're added because company x developed the game, therefore character(s) x were added for funzies.

Why are you arguing Tales with me? I'm not saying either will happen, in fact I'm saying neither will. I'd prefer any Tales character over Pac though. I like how you really think I'm a Tales fanboy for suggesting Lloyd. Seriously? If I was such a fanboy, how do you know more about Tales than I? Makes sense doesn't it, seeing as I'm such a big fanboy, yet I don't know anything about the series -___-

I think the reason that Pac-Man should be added will be because of his Iconic status, more people know about Pac-Man than Mega Man, and if we are going with the logic of Sakurai that he is making Smash 4 to cater casual/new gamers and veteran/old gamers both will recognize more Pac-Man than for example Snake or even Bomber Man.

Lets add that even if a character is dormant but have a high Iconic status will probably get better reception and more praise if they get a hit with their next videogame than a character that did make a "One Hit Wonder" and in the next consecutive games were trash until a new hit come, probably the people will stay away of the character and the series.

Sakurai dosen´t cater to popularity if you follow that logic we would had Toad, Vaati, Midna, Krystal, Isaac, King K. Rool, Geno and Ridley in Brawl and we wouldn´t even have characters like Ice Climbers, Pit, Ness, Lucas, Mr.G&W, R.O.B., Wii Fit Trainer or even Captain Falcon in Smash because of their niche franchises, only being known in one region, their few games, dormant status and being old in general.

Sakurai looks all the characters with different glasses; history, popularity, recency, importance, tides with Nintendo, iconic status, fan demand, gameplay, moveset potential, adaptation, balance, type of game where the character is included, background, concept, world and elements where the character lives, music, secondary and third characters if the main character has any, story elements, bosses, level designs, game designs, legal status and rights for say character and many more things, we need to think in all this points to consider the inclusion or the exclusion of a character and sometimes the people forget about that.

.n_n.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ya know.

I've been thinking...

Is the correct term "Mega Man" or "Megaman?"

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I've never seen a source that says which one is correct.

I think his name can be spelled either way.

 

[IsmaR]

It's Rock Man.

 

[Pacack]

Ya know.

I've been thinking...

Is the correct term "Mega Man" or "Megaman?"

This is a good question.

Also, Golden, thanks for standing up for us Pac-Man supporters. Most of us don't even bother voicing our opinions around here anymore, and you're doing a great job defending us.

 

[N3ON]

I was more thinking about how poorly planned the game was. In a time where everything is going multiplayer-orientated (which favors Smash Bros HUGELY!!!), Sakurai instead spent most of the funding and the development time on the single/two-player adventure mode that doesn't work online in what ended up being minimally better than what Melee had.

Oh, and tripping.

And lastly, the whole anti-competitive everything Brawl was, which honestly I feel even took away from the casual experience of said game.

But ultimately, those were the only 2 things I was thinking of, because both of those are universally panned.

Of course, those could be things not done by Sakurai per say, but as the "head of Smash Bros.", he will ultimately get blamed forever.

Yeah, there were some glaring problems with Brawl, I'd never deny that, I was just saying Sakurai gets a lot of blame for Brawl, when a lot of his decisions people don't like were intentional, and they seem to ignore all his other games that they fawn over. Sakurai is not god, even though some people treat him as such, he makes mistakes like everybody, I just think people should realize without him we wouldn't even be in this place. And at least he seems to be learning from a lot of his mistakes with Brawl, which is more than can be said for other developers who get too comfortable with themselves.

Well maybe that's why a new Smash game has its' lowest hype ever (seriously, I thought we'd have 5 times the posters; SmashBoards' Brawl Boards back in the pre-Brawldays at this point in development had about 3-5 times the regular posters), and why the Wii U is possibly the least hyped Nintendo console ever with the worst launch period of any Nintendo console ever.

I think that's largely due to the Wii U and the general current state of Nintendo, which is sort of out of Sakurai's hands.

Of course, Sakurai seems to be more hands off, since his studio is probably more talented in terms of developmental skills than he is, given how successful Tekken and Soul Calibur have been as relevant and amazing fighting game franchises.

I dunno, he might trust his team more, they're more experienced in this area than any of his past teams, but I'd guess he's still pretty involved, that's just his style when making games.

Their top execs sure did. They fired everyone good, gave themselves huge bonuses, screwed over fans with tons of paid DLC, and re-released everything for the fans to re-buy with minimal new content for a way too high of a price tag.

And that's why few tears will be shed should they collapse into themselves. I'll feel bad seeing what the Capcom of old has turned into (I already do), but nowadays they're just... horrible. I don't even remember the last Capcom game I bought, it must've been a few years ago by now anyway.

Shame they got to keep all of Clover's IPs (though that was to be expected - as was them squandering them - as they've "successfully" done )

Ya know.

I've been thinking...

Is the correct term "Mega Man" or "Megaman?"

It's the former, but no one really seems to care.

 

[Deleted member]

It's Rock Man.

Nah, it's Rockman.

Also, Golden, thanks for standing up for us Pac-Man supporters. Most of us don't even bother voicing our opinions around here anymore, and you're doing a great job defending us.

No problem. Too bad I can't help in the Debateamania....
I deliberately didn't join for three reasons:
1. One of the rules is to be civil.
2. I wouldn't be able to keep a tab on schedule.
3. It's like sending an Entei against a horde of Caterpie.