Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Robert of Normandy]

Why? 2 more playable characters, and Pikachu is still selectable on his own. What's to lose with this?

Because very few people want to play as those other two, and if they did, they wouldn't want some stupid gimmick forced down their throats to do it.

Pikachu is already a fine character, he's done moderatley well in all 3 games in the series. He doesn't need some dumb gimmick to be tacked on to him. He's fine(+/- a few minor tweaks to account for the engine) as is.

 

[Deleted member]

Because very few people want to play as those other two, and if they did, they wouldn't want some stupid gimmick forced down their throats to do it.

Nah, I think it's a cool idea of you build a whole character around that concept, maybe not Pikachu, but someone else. The question is who would be the best candidate for a DBZ-like "this isn't even my final form" type play-style.

Spoiler

inb4 Ridley

 

[TheCreator]

.......but I wanna play as plusle and minun

 

[Big Mac]

The Pichu/Pikachu/Raichu gimmick is dumb because there is already far too much 1st gen representation, and the next 1st gen people want is Mewtwo, not a bigger, angrier, Pikachu. Of course, I'd be all for it in a perfect world with 70 characters, but this is not said world.

And yes, Sakurai does indeed balance for FFA/items. That doesn't mean he was good at that either. The man has little concept of balance in general. Either way, the balance in this game should be at least improved from the massive imbalance from the previous titles thanks to Namco's involvement.

 

[TheCreator]

The Pichu/Pikachu/Raichu gimmick is dumb because there is already far too much 1st gen representation, and the next 1st gen people want is Mewtwo, not a bigger, angrier, Pikachu. Of course, I'd be all for it in a perfect world with 70 characters, but this is not said world.

And yes, Sakurai does indeed balance for FFA/items. That doesn't mean he was good at that either. The man has little concept of balance in general. Either way, the balance in this game should be at least improved from the massive imbalance from the previous titles thanks to Namco's involvement.

This. I think jigglypuff is even leaving.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Sakurai doesn't care about gen representation, everyone knows that the gen 1 pkmn are the most popular, and the only way jiggly is leaving is through a reboot

 

[Moon Monkey]

Sakurai doesn't care about gen representation, everyone knows that the gen 1 pkmn are the most popular, and the only way jiggly is leaving is through a reboot

This. All of it.

 

[lobotheduck21]

I like diddy's idea, but I'm not sure if pikachu is the right choice, I'm thinking jiggs maybe

 

[PSIguy89]

For the most part I still feel we could do without the puff this time around. not saying I expect her to be cut, but who knows. for all we know sakurai could go in a completely different approach this time around.

 

[Big Mac]

Sakurai doesn't care about gen representation, everyone knows that the gen 1 pkmn are the most popular, and the only way jiggly is leaving is through a reboot

He doesn't. The Pokemon company does.

Either way, there was more to the post than that. There's this guy called Mewtwo. He exists.

For the most part I still feel we could do without the puff this time around. not saying I expect her to be cut, but who knows. for all we know sakurai could go in a completely different approach this time around.

Agreed with this.

 

[lobotheduck21]

He doesn't. The Pokemon company does.

Either way, there was more to the post than that. There's this guy called Mewtwo. He exists.

Because the pokemon company cared about gen rep in brawl, and mewtwo some how changes it, it's not like we need a rep for each gen

 

[Big Mac]

Because the pokemon company cared about gen rep in brawl, and mewtwo some how changes it, it's not like we need a rep for each gen

They in fact did. Sakurai wouldn't add Lucario himself. Him adding Pokemon Trainer long after he's relevant shows he values 1st gen personally, and he has directly said in an interview that the Pokemon company were difficult to work with.

Mewtwo kind of would get in before Pichu/Raichu, yes. I didn't think I would have to explain such obvious things out. Nevermind a 6th/5th gen rep forced down our throats from the Pokemon Company.

 

[Dark Phazon]

All hail this guy.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d3/Mewtwo.png

 

[Big-Cat]

If I'm remembering correctly, doesn't Sakurai balance characters as if they were playing FFAs with items?

SmashChu goes around saying this, but we have no actual proof of this.

The closest we have was that he tried having the weapons in Uprising balanced for 1v1 and 3v3. The problem with balancing for FFA with items is that it's usually done with low level play in mind and that there are simply way too many random variables to take into account. This is why the game needs to balanced with 1v1 and no items or hazards. Stage layout is fine, but I feel that should be balanced around the characters, not the other way around. You'd probably have a better results with making some adjustments to stages here and there as opposed to the surgical changes that come with character balancing. I mean, Tekken has stages that are infinite in size, have balconies, walls, breakable walls, breakable floors, etc. and I've never heard of stages having to be banned.

Nah, I think it's a cool idea of you build a whole character around that concept, maybe not Pikachu, but someone else. The question is who would be the best candidate for a DBZ-like "this isn't even my final form" type play-style.

Spoiler

inb4 Ridley

The closest we've had to that is Lucario, but that was a poorly designed clutch mechanic.

 

[BTmoney]

Do you people understand you can't speculate to the tee when you have almost nothing to speculate on?



I would just like at least 3, but no more than 4, fire emblem representatives.
I think Pokemon Trainer is out just because it/he's so wonky.
Terrakion from Pokemon or Mew would be cool. Dragonite?
Rotom-Wash? Scizor? One of the many popular and overcentralizing OU pokemon would be cool.

But what do I know?
Nothing

 

[lobotheduck21]

They in fact did. Sakurai wouldn't add Lucario himself. Him adding Pokemon Trainer long after he's relevant shows he values 1st gen personally, and he has directly said in an interview that the Pokemon company were difficult to work with.

Mewtwo kind of would get in before Pichu/Raichu, yes. I didn't think I would have to explain such obvious things out. Nevermind a 6th/5th gen rep forced down our throats from the Pokemon Company.

I'm not arguing pichu or raichu will get before mewtwo, no one's arguing that, I'm arguing that gen representation doesn't matter, and there is no proof that game freak forced sakurai to add lucario, most bull argument I've seen

 

[BTmoney]

and there is no proof that game freak forced sakurai to add lucario, most bull argument I've seen

Do you people understand you can't speculate to the tee when you have almost nothing to speculate on?

Exactly

 

[FlareHabanero]

Lucario is in general a popular Pokemon, so even if it was forced for whatever reason at least it was justified forcing. Now if it was Plusle & Minun, then that would feel very cheap and lame.

 

[Big Mac]

I'm not arguing pichu or raichu will get before mewtwo, no one's arguing that, I'm arguing that gen representation doesn't matter, and there is no proof that game freak forced sakurai to add lucario, most bull argument I've seen

Lucario is not actually important to anything in the grand scheme of things and wasn't exactly requested. He was just expected. The same way Zoroark is for this game, until gen 6 came out and invalidated his very existence.

Lucario is only relevant to Gamefreak, and that's only because he was what they were currently marketing. Pokemon has always been squeezing as much money out of everything they can, all the way back to two/three seperate versions of the original Pokemon games. Sakurai is aware that Pokemon Trainer was the actual important character to add that actually stands for anything, since the Pokemon Company doesn't care about the old Pokemon whatsoever anymore. Given how far Sakurai took the process with Mewtwo in Brawl and how he said the Pokemon Company specifically was so very difficult to work with, it adds up if you put two and two together.

Is it definitive proof that Gamefreak does executive meddling with Sakurai? Of course it isn't. There's no definitive proof Birdo won't be in either.

Lucario is in general a popular Pokemon, so even if it was forced for whatever reason at least it was justified forcing. Now if it was Plusle & Minun, then that would feel very cheap and lame.

Lucario gained most of his popularity because he was put in Brawl. Smash Bros gave a lot of characters large chunks of their popularity, most obviously Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, and the retro characters.

 

[3Bismyname]

Jigglypuff was plenty popular before Smash and so was Lucario. neither of those characters became more noticed or popular due to their appearences in Smash. gen repping doesnt matter. Lucario was popular to begin with and was requested. (if anything its more due to the movie and simply being one of the first showed off of his gen). overall he made sense for a new addition for Pokemon. if gen repping mattered at all we should've seen a gen 3 pokemon in Brawl. instead we got Lucario, who did get in on his own merit, and more gen 1 Pokemon with the Pokemon Trainer.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Jigglypuff was plenty popular before Smash and so was Lucario. neither of those characters became more noticed or popular due to their appearences in Smash. gen repping doesnt matter. Lucario was popular to begin with and was requested. overall he made sense for a new addition for Pokemon. if gen repping mattered at all we should've seen a gen 3 pokemon in Brawl. instead we got Lucario, who did get in on his own merit, and more gen 1 Pokemon with the Pokemon Trainer.

All of this

That lucario ain't popular argument was a bs argument

 

[JPW]

the reason why Chrom isn't getting enough love from the rest of the world is because only Japan has the game so far. The rest of us have to wait till April or later.

 

[Big Mac]

Jigglypuff was plenty popular before Smash and so was Lucario. neither of those characters became more noticed or popular due to their appearences in Smash. gen repping doesnt matter. Lucario was popular to begin with and was requested. (if anything its more due to the movie and simply being one of the first showed off of his gen). overall he made sense for a new addition for Pokemon. if gen repping mattered at all we should've seen a gen 3 pokemon in Brawl. instead we got Lucario, who did get in on his own merit, and more gen 1 Pokemon with the Pokemon Trainer.

Oh lord the Pokemon movies. The Pokemon movies are the main way how you can see what Gamefreak wants to sell. People have always hated the anime - you don't get popular because you're in it. It's got terrible writing, barely any continuity in over 1000 episodes, and an outright despised main character. To top it all off it isn't even an accurate representation of the games with the incorrect typings, multiple legendaries, embarassing dubs, and what have you.

The stars of the movies are exactly who Gamefreak wants to advertise, not who's popular.

Gen representation doesn't matter to Sakurai, I agree to this. It is all that blasted Pokemon company.

All of this

That lucario ain't popular argument was a bs argument

Excuse me while I argue with the person with a keyboard.

 

[lobotheduck21]

Nope, it's an iPad

 

[3Bismyname]

Oh lord the Pokemon movies. The Pokemon movies are the main way how you can see what Gamefreak wants to sell. People have always hated the anime - you don't get popular because you're in it. It's got terrible writing, barely any continuity in over 1000 episodes, and an outright despised main character. To top it all off it isn't even an accurate representation of the games with the incorrect typings, multiple legendaries, embarassing dubs, and what have you.

The stars of the movies are exactly who Gamefreak wants to advertise, not who's popular.

Gen representation doesn't matter to Sakurai, I agree to this. It is all that blasted Pokemon company.

ur dislike for the movies doesn't justify the fact that Lucario was simply exposed more than most other pokemon of that gen. therefore people became acquainted to the character and thereby became highly requested. you are ignoring the fact that he was requested by fans. not simply pushed by Gamefreak.

 

[Big Mac]

ur dislike for the movies.

You say that as if I'm alone in my opinion and the Pokemon movies are beloved pieces of cinema history.

 

[Deleted member]

At the same time, you act as though everyone in the world shares your opinion, and that the movies are the biggest pieces of crap ever devised.

 

[PSIguy89]

Who do all of you *personally* want to see gone in smash4? not just who you think will be cut, but rather who you WANT to be cut? oh and feel free to explain why for each character if ya want! for me personally, I want Jigglypuff, IceClimbers, ROB, Shiek, and Snake cut. i dislike the iceclimbers as character with no depth or anything, never gave a crap about sheik in ANY game he/she was in. F*** ROB lol. Jigglypuff IMO is not deserving anymore, and i just didnt think Snake fit in.

 

[3Bismyname]

if i could drop anyone i'd drop every Mario character cause i am so sick and tired of Mario

 

[Deleted member]

Guys, what if one of the hidden Pokemon of the Genesect movie was the original Pokemon Genesect was modified from?

I mean, in the anime arc that will tie into the movie, there were SIX broken tubes, and we know of 5 Genesect, one purple one for each Drive and the red one.
....That leaves one left. Perhaps it never got modified like the others?
I personally think that would be pretty cool.

 

[PSIguy89]

if i could drop anyone i'd drop every Mario character cause i am so sick and tired of Mario

ALL of that

 

[FlareHabanero]

The Pokemon movies ARE crap, but are not the biggest pieces of crap ever made. They're watchable but tend to be very forgettable, mainly because a lot of them recycle the same cliches and elements.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

The Pokemon roster:

-Pikachu
-Jigglypuff
-Gold w/ Chikorita, Quilava, & Feraligatr
-Zoroark
-Lucario

DLC:

-Mewtwo
-6th Gen Spot

The Fire Emblem roster:

-Marth
-Micaiah
-Chrom

DLC:

-Ike
-Lucina

The Zelda roster:

-Link
-Zelda
-Ghirahim
-Ganondorf
-Toon Link

DLC:

-Impa
-Skull Kid w/ Majora's Mask

 

[lobotheduck21]

Lucas, mainly cause I want a different mother rep, porky or jeff

Is that what you think will happen dragon, or a wishlist

 

[PSIguy89]

i would not mind Porky over Lucas one bit

 

[Gamingboy]

Jeez, I'm gone for about 12 hours and like 10 pages happen.

 

[Big Mac]

Who do all of you *personally* want to see gone in smash4? not just who you think will be cut, but rather who you WANT to be cut? oh and feel free to explain why for each character if ya want! for me personally, I want Jigglypuff, IceClimbers, ROB, Shiek, and Snake cut. i dislike the iceclimbers as character with no depth or anything, never gave a crap about sheik in ANY game he/she was in. F*** ROB lol. Jigglypuff IMO is not deserving anymore, and i just didnt think Snake fit in.

Jigglypuff should've never got in in the first place over Meowth/Mewtwo/Charizard, and has long outstayed her welcome.

Ice Climbers because they're just a completely random retro character without even being a "shock" character.

Shiek because she hasn't been in a game since forever and again should never have been in. Zelda doesn't need 2 movesets while Ganon has 0.

Falco because Starfox has too many reps, and he's still way too much like Fox. He's also absolutely terrible to play against in both Melee and Brawl.

That's who I'd cut if I had to, though the only character I'd cut if I didn't have to cut anyone would be Jiggs. I don't actually predict anybody getting cut outside of maybe Lucario.

Guys, what if one of the hidden Pokemon of the Genesect movie was the original Pokemon Genesect was modified from?

I mean, in the anime arc that will tie into the movie, there were SIX broken tubes, and we know of 5 Genesect, one purple one for each Drive and the red one.
....That leaves one left. Perhaps it never got modified like the others?
I personally think that would be pretty cool.

That's actually not a half bad theory. So would it be a pure Bug type then?

 

[3Bismyname]

i actually really like the Ice Climbers. their actually on my top five of most played characters in Melee and Brawl. they have a lot of undeserved hate imo.

 

[lobotheduck21]

i actually really like the Ice Climbers. their actually on my top five of most played characters in Melee and Brawl. they have a lot of undeserved hate imo.

So true, and Big Mac, jiggs was the second most popular in Japan, that alone gives a reason to be in smash, love how you bash the anime, but say that jiggs should not have gotten over meowth, a character that became popular from the anime

 

[Deleted member]

That's actually not a half bad theory. So would it be a pure Bug type then?

If it's like any of the other revived fossil Pokemon, it would be Bug/Rock.