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Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

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鉄腕
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I think by the end of the year Sakurai will probably have roster close to, if not already, wrapped up. I'd start looking at the characters that are in the pool now to get an idea of whom is likelier to be chosen.
Tough part is, people most likely don't even know the character pool (not that it's totally concrete, may vary a specific common character or two depending on the person, Waluigi and Bananda Dee are good examples), and that's when the flame wars start up.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but since NB is working on development as well as the confirmed prototype of the game engine is already done cuts for time may be assumed to be less of an issue right now.
 

Starphoenix

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Tough part is, people most likely don't even know the character pool (not that it's totally concrete, may vary a specific common character or two depending on the person, Waluigi and Bananda Dee are good examples), and that's when the flame wars start up.
Well I'm working on a visual of what I perceive to be "the character pool". Does not mean any of them are going to happen, but they are names that will probably float around.

As for Waluigi and Bandana Dee, your examples, they definitely deserve to be in the pool (even though I cannot stand Waluigi).

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but since NB is working on development as well as the confirmed prototype of the game engine is already done cuts for time may be assumed to be less of an issue right now.
It does seem rather promising that NB was able to present a prototype to Sakurai that he approved. I'd like to think that this means they are going to start ramping up development soon, but considering I'm not a part of the development I have no idea what's next.
 

Starphoenix

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This is the character pool as I see it.



Now I think most of the characters in this pool will wind up as a mixture of either trophies, or Assist Trophies. Before people start criticizing me, realize there are several factors why I have the pool the way it is now:

  • They were either playable, or had a significant role in a large entry that succeeded Super Smash Bros. Brawl
  • They were a popular request at the time of Super Smash Bros. Brawl
  • They had already been in the Super Smash Bros series, or were considered to be playable at some time.

There is also an element of foresight I take into consideration with some characters. Based upon different fan and developer trends I try to project what characters are likelier to be tossed around the developer water-cooler, so to speak.

*Hoenn Trainer should really just be Female Pokémon Trainer, but since the Hoenn design was closest to the Pokémon I think she could have, I chose her.
 

Lukingordex

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This is the character pool as I see it.



Now I think most of the characters in this pool will wind up as a mixture of either trophies, or Assist Trophies. Before people start criticizing me, realize there are several factors why I have the pool the way it is now:

  • They were either playable, or had a significant role in a large entry that succeeded Super Smash Bros. Brawl
  • They were a popular request at the time of Super Smash Bros. Brawl
  • They had already been in the Super Smash Bros series, or were considered to be playable at some time.

There is also an element of foresight I take into consideration with some characters. Based upon different fan and developer trends I try to project what characters are likelier to be tossed around the developer water-cooler, so to speak.

*Hoenn Trainer should really just be Female Pokémon Trainer, but since the Hoenn design was closest to the Pokémon I think she could have, I chose her.
Only 20% of the character's on this pool are decent for smash.
 

Starphoenix

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Reasonable pool of characters I could see the developers considering. Isn't Victini in a similar position of consideration as Zoroark though?
I think Gamefreak is going to push for N or Zoroark. It's not like the fans are really asking for anything different, Victini support has all but imploded at this point.
 

JavaCroc

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I think Gamefreak is going to push for N or Zoroark. It's not like the fans are really asking for anything different, Victini support has all but imploded at this point.
The lack of a Victini thread in this board right now probably proves the point. Most people tend to just expect Zoroark as the inevitable 5th-gen representative anyways. Too bad for Victini. (I don't have any problems with Zoroark by any means)

EDIT: BTW, why Dark Samus? And Funky Kong? I would think K. Rool and Dixie Kong is enough to decide between for Funky Kong to not be a major factor in debate.
 

Starphoenix

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The lack of a Victini thread in this board right now probably proves the point. Most people tend to just expect Zoroark as the inevitable 5th-gen representative anyways. Too bad for Victini. (I don't have any problems with Zoroark by any means)

EDIT: BTW, why Dark Samus? And Funky Kong? I would think K. Rool and Dixie Kong is enough to decide between for Funky Kong to not be a major factor in debate.
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy really.

Dark Samus falls under that "significant role in a title after Brawl" category (Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, and maybe even Metroid Prime Trilogy). Considering how Sakurai likes to use characters based off of an existing model to buff the roster, Dark Samus would be a good choice, especially if Ridley was not able to work out.

Funky Kong was included primarily because of Mario Kart Wii, being that he is the only Donkey Kong character outside of Cranky Kong to have made an appearance anywhere. Not a reason why he will be playable, but a reason why his name might be brought up; because Mario Kart does get looked at.
 

JordantheGiant

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I still think Victini is more likely than Hoenn Trainer, N, Pichu, and plenty of the other guys on your list so she should be on there.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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My only complaint with Victini is that it's Unova's Mew, and based on what the past Smash Bros. titles offered, Mew, Jirachi, Celebi, and Manaphy all ended up as Poke Ball Pokemon. Basically, something just tells me that Victini may end up heading that road too.
 

JordantheGiant

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My only complaint with Victini is that it's Unova's Mew, and based on what the past Smash Bros. titles offered, Mew, Jirachi, Celebi, and Manaphy all ended up as Poke Ball Pokemon. Basically, something just tells me that Victini may end up heading that road too.
True but Charizard and Blastoise were Pokeballs and now Char & Squirtle are playable. I wouldn't rule Victini out of the pool possible of characters just because of that.

Also, does anyone else feel like these last two generations, Gamefreak has made mascots that cater to Smash? Both Lucario and Zoroark stand on two legs and have unique abilities (Lucario with his aura, Zoroark with Illusion), which makes them ideal for Smash. Its smart marketing tbh. Feels like they were made with Smash in mind.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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However, they took 3 games to be playable. 1st Gen has never mattered when they "appear" in Smash. Er, let me rephrase; 1st Gens can come in regardless of which game it is. They're always relevant. However, only the latest Pokemon game is often relevant.

Meaning that Victini would probably not go from a Pokeball to playable. Not that it can't, but just going by past stuff.
 

JordantheGiant

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However, they took 3 games to be playable. 1st Gen has never mattered when they "appear" in Smash. Er, let me rephrase; 1st Gens can come in regardless of which game it is. They're always relevant. However, only the latest Pokemon game is often relevant.

Meaning that Victini would probably not go from a Pokeball to playable. Not that it can't, but just going by past stuff.
My point wasn't that if Victini gets pokeball'd in SSB4 then she'd still have a chance of being playable in SSB5 lmao... the point was more that anything can happen and Pokemon Trainer is an example of that. Also, Victini deserves to be on that pool of possible newcomers. I'm not saying she has the best chance to be playable, but she has just as good a chance as anyone else on that list.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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My point wasn't that if Victini gets pokeball'd in SSB4 then she'd still have a chance of being playable in SSB5 lmao... the point was more that anything can happen and Pokemon Trainer is an example of that. Also, Victini deserves to be on that pool of possible newcomers. I'm not saying she has the best chance to be playable, but she has just as good a chance as anyone else on that list.
Victini doesn't have a gender.

Considering everything, Zoroark is really the only notable one right now. 5th Gen didn't have any really notable Pokemon themselves. They were mostly all good, but nothing stands out. N stands out. Zoroark was the first revealed. Victini is kind of there. Then there's Chandelure, which is one of the most popular Pokemon.

I'm not so sure Victini would get a chance at playing in SSB5. Here's the thing: If Victini is anything like Mew, etc, it'll probably never become playable. However, if it's just a generic Pokeball(for example, Togepi), it could become playable. There aren't hard facts, just going off of data and is a theory.

Also, Pokemon Trainer is another story. He was added for a new mechanic, and to make 1st Gen big as usual. It really wasn't about Charizard, Squirtle, and Ivysaur specifically anyway.
 

Opossum

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I tend to agree with that pool of newcomers. 14/15 of them that I expect to see are on there. Minus Muddy Mole. By the way, I can probably make a case for him to be there. There was a rumor that Sakurai showed interest in him being playable. It kind of makes sense considering he had a mention on that Brawl "Poll" that Sakurai had. I dunno. It seems like more than a lot of other characters have had. Not to mention that recent interview speaking of him.


Just my two cents. Take it as you will, I guess. Other than that, I'd say the list is comprehensive.
 

JordantheGiant

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Victini doesn't have a gender.

Considering everything, Zoroark is really the only notable one right now. 5th Gen didn't have any really notable Pokemon themselves. They were mostly all good, but nothing stands out. N stands out. Zoroark was the first revealed. Victini is kind of there. Then there's Chandelure, which is one of the most popular Pokemon.

I'm not so sure Victini would get a chance at playing in SSB5. Here's the thing: If Victini is anything like Mew, etc, it'll probably never become playable. However, if it's just a generic Pokeball(for example, Togepi), it could become playable. There aren't hard facts, just going off of data and is a theory.

Also, Pokemon Trainer is another story. He was added for a new mechanic, and to make 1st Gen big as usual. It really wasn't about Charizard, Squirtle, and Ivysaur specifically anyway.
I'm not even talking about him being playable in SSB5 dude. And I know that Victini is genderless but cmon, you are really going to gripe about that? I'm just saying that Victini deserves to be on that list Starphoenix made.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Thoughts? it is a mix between a prediction and a wishlist roster. I took some creative liberties. I will be most likely taking out Terra, Ryu, and possibly Jiggly in the future.
 

lordvaati

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^ an FF character that's not a generic animal of character class? THANK GAWD!(I support Cecil myself)

-swith Ryu with Ryu hayabusa, since Tecmo getting a rep is possible, and we don't need 2 capcom reps

-nice to see someone else agrees that the Trainer can have different Gender costumes.

-why is Wario in the corner by his lonesome?
 

xXIke-SamaXx

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Thoughts? it is a mix between a prediction and a wishlist roster. I took some creative liberties. I will be most likely taking out Terra, Ryu, and possibly Jiggly in the future.
Where's Lucario ? Do you hate Lucario ? if you do, your roster is illogical,first adding back Mew Two will only be for one reason and that's pleasing Mew Two fans who were angered by his absence, but Removing Lucario and adding back Mew Two doesn't make sense because , what's the point of adding Mew Two back, you will still have one fanbase angry after all and there reasons will be valid, Mew Two fans lived brawl without him so really adding him back will be controversial, it's either bring him back while Lucario Remain or remove them both in favor of Zoroark.
 

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Saki from "Sin and Punishment" highly deserves to be in smash4.
Besides, he is an assist trophy character after all. -_^♭
 

xXIke-SamaXx

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Where's Lucario ? Do you hate Lucario ? if you do, your roster is illogical,first adding back Mew Two will only be for one reason and that's pleasing Mew Two fans who were angered by his absence, but Removing Lucario and adding back Mew Two doesn't make sense because , what's the point of adding Mew Two back, you will still have one fanbase angry after all and there reasons will be valid, Mew Two fans lived brawl without him so really adding him back will be controversial, it's either bring him back while Lucario Remain or remove them both in favor of Zoroark.
I will give you an analogy in case you didn't understand, Imagine you were a Father/Mother and you have your first child, and you only have one ball you give that ball to your only child (that's equivalent of putting Mew Two in Melee) than you had another child and you decided that your older child who had the ball first is too old for that ball and gave it to the younger child (that's equivalent of adding Lucario and removing Mew Two) but the older child got angry and you wanted to make it up for him, you have 3 choices :

1.Take the ball from the younger child and give it back to the older child which will make the younger child sad and angry at the same time (would be illogical and not fair of a choice)
=Putting Mew Two and removing Lucario

2.Buy a new ball for the older child (the more expensive and the fair choice)= Putting Mew Two alongside with Lucario

3.Take the ball from the younger child when he become old enough and give it the third child who might come someday (fair enough)= Putting Zoroark and get rid of Lucario
 

Lukingordex

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Thoughts? it is a mix between a prediction and a wishlist roster. I took some creative liberties. I will be most likely taking out Terra, Ryu, and possibly Jiggly in the future.
Why Bowser Jr. with Shadow Mario?
Bowser Jr. alone,plz

Also,this is the most disorganized roster that I've seen in my life.
 

JPW

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i love how more ad more people are including Isaac when i returned here i got the feeling pretty quickly no one liked him, or supported him.

little did i know they just felt a moveset would be hard to make.

Also Venus you included Nightmare. AWESOME!
if Namco were to include any of their traditional fighters though i think they would end up as assists.
As far as it stands PacMan and Lloyd Irving make the top list and first choices for Namco reps.
PacMan o thong will have the best chance because of his history and he's got the better smash feel. He will mesh well with characters like Mario, Kirby, Pikachu, Sonic and such.

one thing i would like in the next one is the need to turn off certain assist trophies.

Mr. Resetti and the Devil are so annoying now. They need to be turned off.
 

me9595

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Anyone else want to see boo or king boo in the game? He could have a moveset similar to peach with the floating and quick aerials
 

JPW

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Anyone else want to see boo or king boo in the game? He could have a moveset similar to peach with the floating and quick aerials
Hell yeah. Have you not seen my dream roster, i did one and showed it a few pages back.

Massive King Boo fan. I love him in the games he's in.

And in MKWii my pick was King Boo with Wario Bike. He's looked awesome on it.
 

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I will give you an analogy in case you didn't understand, Imagine you were a Father/Mother and you have your first child, and you only have one ball you give that ball to your only child (that's equivalent of putting Mew Two in Melee) than you had another child and you decided that your older child who had the ball first is too old for that ball and gave it to the younger child (that's equivalent of adding Lucario and removing Mew Two) but the older child got angry and you wanted to make it up for him, you have 3 choices :

1.Take the ball from the younger child and give it back to the older child which will make the younger child sad and angry at the same time (would be illogical and not fair of a choice)
=Putting Mew Two and removing Lucario

2.Buy a new ball for the older child (the more expensive and the fair choice)= Putting Mew Two alongside with Lucario

3.Take the ball from the younger child when he become old enough and give it the third child who might come someday (fair enough)= Putting Zoroark and get rid of Lucario
Parents need to teach their children that they cannot make everyone happy.

Cutting characters or just not adding characters into the roster will piss off somebody anyway.
 

ViperGold42

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MARIO SERIES -
Mario
Luigi
Bowser
Wario
Waluigi
Peach
Yoshi


DONKEY KONG SERIES
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Dixie Kong


KIRBY SERIES
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede

STARFOX SERIES
Fox McCloud
Wolf O' Donnell
Falco Lombardi

METROID SERIES
Samus/Zero Suit Samus

F-ZERO SERIES
Captain Falcon
Black Shadow

PIKMIN SERIES
Olimar and Pikmin (Rock Pikmin included of course)

EARTHBOUND SERIES
Ness
Lucas

POKEMON SERIES
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Zoroark/Lucario (Lucario might be replaced with Zoroark but it nice to have both I guess)
Pokemon Trainer
Darkrai
Mewtwo

RETRO NINTENDO CHARACTERS
Ice Climbers
Mr. Game & Watch
R.O.B.


KID ICARUS SERIES
Pit

FIRE EMBLEM SERIES
Marth
Ike
Roy

LEGEND OF ZELDA SERIES
Link
Gannondorf
Zelda/Sheik
Toon Link

NON GAME CHARACTER
Mii

THIRD PARTY
Sonic
Snake
Master Cheif
Obi-Wan Kenobi (Last 2 are LONGSHOTS and I would love to see these characters make the fight)
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Saki from "Sin and Punishment" highly deserves to be in smash4.
Besides, he is an assist trophy character after all. -_^♭
Well, a couple of Brawl's Assist Trophies should be promoted to being playable for Smash 4. Little Mac, Isaac, Saki, Samurai Goroh, Starfy, and Ray Mk III are my biggest requests.
 

me9595

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Hell yeah. Have you not seen my dream roster, i did one and showed it a few pages back.

Massive King Boo fan. I love him in the games he's in.

And in MKWii my pick was King Boo with Wario Bike. He's looked awesome on it.
i didnt look through all 18 pages before i commented, but yeah i think he would be awesome, and i would love another character who could float like peach, i think his moves would probably be heavier and more laggy though
 

Lukingordex

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i didnt look through all 18 pages before i commented, but yeah i think he would be awesome, and i would love another character who could float like peach, i think his moves would probably be heavier and more laggy though
More like Daisy.

:awesome:
 

volbound1700

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This maybe just my view, but it appears there isn't a lot of "must have or need" characters left from Nintendo Franchise. A few characters here and there to be added to series or new series maybe good but it sounds like there are a lot of better options from the third parties (Megaman, Simon Belmont, Pac-Man, etc.)
 

JPW

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This maybe just my view, but it appears there isn't a lot of "must have or need" characters left from Nintendo Franchise. A few characters here and there to be added to series or new series maybe good but it sounds like there are a lot of better options from the third parties (Megaman, Simon Belmont, Pac-Man, etc.)
well if we go back to SSB64. That was an original list.

Everyone that has come after has kind of been secondary to those franchises or have been a part of Nintendo's history. In fact the only new nintendo franchises to join the roster has been Fire Emblem, Pikmin, Ice Climbers and Kid Icarus. Okay maybe that is a big list.

so basically they'll look for those characters who are secondary. I think they'll start with characters who only have one rep and build those up first. That would be the best option.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Where's Lucario ? Do you hate Lucario ? if you do, your roster is illogical,first adding back Mew Two will only be for one reason and that's pleasing Mew Two fans who were angered by his absence, but Removing Lucario and adding back Mew Two doesn't make sense because , what's the point of adding Mew Two back, you will still have one fanbase angry after all and there reasons will be valid, Mew Two fans lived brawl without him so really adding him back will be controversial, it's either bring him back while Lucario Remain or remove them both in favor of Zoroark.
Just because I didn't add back Lucario, you assume I hate him? That seems very illogical to me. I must hate Dr. Mario, Pichu, Roy, Young Link, and Snake as well given those standards. You know what they say about assuming things...

As for why I took out Lucario and added Mewtwo, it was based entirely on relevancy. Lucario, while an excellent edition to Smash and in Diamond and Pearl, doesn't compare to Mewtwo's iconic status within the Pokemon franchise. I don't give a **** if "so and so" Pokemon is more powerful or what not. In my eyes, Mewtwo has always been the god-like powerful Pokemon. That stems from the long hours in poured into my Red and Blue in capturing that *******. He was one of the last Pokemon you can get, one of the first Pokemon movies was about him, and really was one of the most strongest Pokemon until Arceus came along and tried to play god. I am not "pandering" to Mewtwo as you claim I am. I added Mewtwo out of my own personal reasons, just as I did with Lucario. I could careless if Mewtwo fans or Lucario fans get butthurt because I didn't add their main.

So, no I don't hate Lucario. Thank you for assuming that I do. I find Mewtwo more relevant, popular, and worthy of another shot at SSB4. As well, Sakurai doesn't give two ****s about stepping on people's characters. If he doesn't think a character should be, he will take him. No matter how butt hurt Lucario or Mewtwo fans get. Suck it up and find another main. I did it with Roy and, if Lucario gets the boot, so will Lucario fans. And also....I like Mewtwo better. Always have, always will. And I didn't even play as the guy in Melee.

Lastly, I really liked how you assumed I didn't understand what you meant and attempted to "clarify" your point. I fully understood what you meant, was unnecessary, and made rather insulting since, once again, in assumed I "wouldn't understand". If I seem harsh, I mean to me. I don't like it when people base their entire argument on assuming things and find it insulting that what I post or talk about causes people assume something completely different from what I actually said. It also makes you look like an *** :/

Why Bowser Jr. with Shadow Mario?
Bowser Jr. alone,plz

Also,this is the most disorganized roster that I've seen in my life.
What makes it's so disorganized? Is it the characters I chose or is it simply where I placed characters. If the later, what would you suggest to make it more pleasing to the eyes. I placed the important franchises or characters who have been in since 64 (save for Fzero and Earthbound). Wario is kind of out of placed though :/

And yes, I am planning to axe Shadow Mario. This roster was made maybe 4 months ago and I have gotten around to updating it.

Well, a couple of Brawl's Assist Trophies should be promoted to being playable for Smash 4. Little Mac, Isaac, Saki, Samurai Goroh, Starfy, and Ray Mk III are my biggest requests.
I think we will see some of the Assist Trophies promoted (but keep Waluigi and Tingle out of it!) I wouldn't mind seeing those you listed playable. Especially Little Mac and Saki!
 

Lukingordex

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What makes it's so disorganized? Is it the characters I chose or is it simply where I placed characters. If the later, what would you suggest to make it more pleasing to the eyes. I placed the important franchises or characters who have been in since 64 (save for Fzero and Earthbound). Wario is kind of out of placed though :/

And yes, I am planning to axe Shadow Mario. This roster was made maybe 4 months ago and I have gotten around to updating it.
Bowser Jr. really don't need any partner,and much less Shadow Mario.

Also,try to place the characters better,some of them are really hard to find where they are.
 

JavaCroc

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What makes it's so disorganized? Is it the characters I chose or is it simply where I placed characters. If the later, what would you suggest to make it more pleasing to the eyes. I placed the important franchises or characters who have been in since 64 (save for Fzero and Earthbound). Wario is kind of out of placed though :/
It's probably because the setup is a little unusual compared to most Smash rosters. I've seen. Most stick the Mario characters at the left side of the roster and then progress over to third-party characters, but you've got third-parties and Fire Emblem at the left and Star Fox at far right. It was a little awkward for me to look at too.
 

xXIke-SamaXx

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since when are balls so expensive. I can get them for $1 at Kmart.
You can't deny 1$ is more expensive than 0$ do you ? hence the term analogy...

Just because I didn't add back Lucario, you assume I hate him? That seems very illogical to me. I must hate Dr. Mario, Pichu, Roy, Young Link, and Snake as well given those standards. You know what they say about assuming things...

Hence, the "?" and the "if" when did I say you hated Lucario ? I asked you and answered with "if" because I didn't know if you hated him or not and it seems you do hate him you wouldn't reply if you don't you idiot, because "if" is a condition term and I said to you all these things if you did hate Lucario because if you don't you would have understood that you only had to reply if you hated Lucario if you didn't you just had to answer the first question.....and all the characters you listed above except snake got the boot why would I bother talking about them....and Snake isn't a guest character enough said.


As for why I took out Lucario and added Mewtwo, it was based entirely on relevancy. Lucario, while an excellent edition to Smash and in Diamond and Pearl, doesn't compare to Mewtwo's iconic status within the Pokemon franchise. I don't give a **** if "so and so" Pokemon is more powerful or what not. In my eyes, Mewtwo has always been the god-like powerful Pokemon. That stems from the long hours in poured into my Red and Blue in capturing that *******. He was one of the last Pokemon you can get, one of the first Pokemon movies was about him, and really was one of the most strongest Pokemon until Arceus came along and tried to play god. I am not "pandering" to Mewtwo as you claim I am. I added Mewtwo out of my own personal reasons, just as I did with Lucario. I could careless if Mewtwo fans or Lucario fans get butthurt because I didn't add their main.

First read the whole thing, and don't put your heart into such thing, to do a Roster you have to stand on facts, and facts says that whoever Gamefreak chooses will come back and I didn't say MewTwo won't come back I very much like MewTwo but facts are facts and removing Lucario with putting MewTwo back would be something stupid, I believe your IQ level doesn't qualify you to understand what I'm writing so I will leave that there.

So, no I don't hate Lucario. Thank you for assuming that I do. I find Mewtwo more relevant, popular, and worthy of another shot at SSB4. As well, Sakurai doesn't give two ****s about stepping on people's characters. If he doesn't think a character should be, he will take him. No matter how butt hurt Lucario or Mewtwo fans get. Suck it up and find another main. I did it with Roy and, if Lucario gets the boot, so will Lucario fans. And also....I like Mewtwo better. Always have, always will. And I didn't even play as the guy in Melee.

Lastly, I really liked how you assumed I didn't understand what you meant and attempted to "clarify" your point. I fully understood what you meant, was unnecessary, and made rather insulting since, once again, in assumed I "wouldn't understand". If I seem harsh, I mean to me. I don't like it when people base their entire argument on assuming things and find it insulting that what I post or talk about causes people assume something completely different from what I actually said. It also makes you look like an *** :/

My point stands, your whole comment is based on an invalid argument because I never assumed you hate Lucario because if I did my reply would something like that "I assume you hate Lucario" not "Do you hate Lucario ? if you do..".....and I think I was right to make the analogy because you don't seem to have a high IQ level seriously go do some tests, after if you were under 75 IQ you will get to use the handicapped toilets and parking :D, I wouldn't miss it if I were you...
 
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