Data Robin Patch Notes 1.1.3

[PK Gaming]

Clouds Blade beam is beaten out by ZSS gun (not charged) so I assume even just thunder or el thunder at the max cancels it out. Even if he gets the limit break we can wall him out and if he doesn't put much percent on we can just bait out the Finishing Touch as you can just shield it.

Speaking of shield, Cloud generally loses to shield... Against Robin and other campers his approaches are limited. Again IMO. He's hype for sure but don't think he's anything for us to be afraid of.

Well I've got bad news for you; Blade Beam trades with Thunder, Elthunder and Arcthunder so both moves are cancelled out. No offense, but you're saying things like "we can just wall him out" and "his approaches are limited" without having actually played against the character. It's theorycraft on your part.

Cloud isn't hard, but he doesn't just roll over and lose to us. That's ridiculous.

 

[Dathx]

Finished doing some math stuff that I should've done patch 1.1.1, but got inspired by the endlag changes from this patch. There's a TL;DR/Conclusion for those who don't like math. But I'd prefer if people who know about this stuff ( Raziek ?) could check it over.

 

[Raziek]

On a quick read over at work, that math looks solid. Confirms a lot of the theory behind things we already put into practice.

I'm especially happy to see landing Bair is - 4. That's absurdly good for our defence game.

 

[Zareidriel]

Amazing work, Dathx . I've never seen frame advantage calculations in this kind of context, with the new shieldstun mechanics and everything. And I wasn't aware of the hitlag algorithm either. Very cool and useful.

Also before reading that I had no idea what our electricity effect did lol. 1.5 times, wow...

I agree with your tl;drs, from my current understanding. Good to hear about the landing Bairs, which I did all too often anyway. A lot of other goodies in there, Dtilt much less safe on shield than I thought...Let me tl;dr it down a little simpler for our fine forum friends:

tl:dr the tl:dr:

-Landing Bair is good for landing if you want to land offensively.
-Landing Nair is okay if you are forced to land.
-Auto-canceled Fair is godlike, ULTRA-safe on shield when auto-canceled, use this unless you're forced to land.
-Dsmash replaces Fsmash in many scenarios now, before they were about the same duration, but Dsmash is now considerably faster. Fsmash still good to secure the kill, still has better knockback (well, angle, mostly).

Now that Upair thing, the super late hitbox, you mean our little zappy one at the end of the aerials? If your calculations are correct, auto-canceled Upair Jolt has a +7 frame advantage on shield?

 

[PK Gaming]

I can't wait to see this in practice for tournaments

I'm a visual learner so hop to it Dathx & Raziek !

(lol)

 

[Dathx]

Now that Upair thing, the super late hitbox, you mean our little zappy one at the end of the aerials? If your calculations are correct, auto-canceled Upair Jolt has a +7 frame advantage on shield?

Yeah, the very last hit after the arc travels all the way around for Uair is +7 on shield. Super ridiculous. Although our grab comes out frame 7, and would thus true combo from this, you would have to turn around grab AND get the last frame hit on Uair. Cool, but I don't think we'll ever be able to do that. It might feel like it combos though at perfection.

 

[Raziek]

Notably it also means late Uair into Jab is gapless pressure.

 

[theyellowflash26]

This is awesome. I'm assuming you'd space the up air so only the last hit connects on shield and let it autocancel rather than ff right?

 

[Raziek]

This is awesome. I'm assuming you'd space the up air so only the last hit connects on shield and let it autocancel rather than ff right?

Correct. You have to RAR it towards them, basically.

An aware opponent can just challenge you pretty easily for doing it, but if they're already blocking something else or are scared, it's a valid mix-up.

 

[M@v]

Yeah, the very last hit after the arc travels all the way around for Uair is +7 on shield. Super ridiculous. Although our grab comes out frame 7, and would thus true combo from this, you would have to turn around grab AND get the last frame hit on Uair. Cool, but I don't think we'll ever be able to do that. It might feel like it combos though at perfection.

It would reallllly help if Robin's grab range wasn't total poo. Would likely give some breathing room for this as well. I'm definitely going to start nairing even more than I already do now since it appears to be really safe, especially when there's no levin. I've tried using nair OoS too since its a tool from my Fox play.

 

[Suiko]

Wait, so about Robin's down throw...
Do we know anything about how it has changed yet?

 

[ARGHETH]

Nope. All we know is that something changed. (Unless literally everyone who tested it have faulty memories).

 

[Zareidriel]

To actually figure out what's going on, whether it's a mass hallucination or not, we'll probably have to wait until the folks over in 1.1.3 are finished analyzing the data, or if the new mastercore gets dumped.

 

[Ninety]

Hey, question. How impactful are the two-frame buffs on aerial landing lag? Aren't Robin's aerials usually autocancelled anyway?

 

[Raziek]

The buffs to landing lag make falling Uair, Bair, and Nair all safer.

The most significant of these are Bair and Uair. Spaced properly, the pushback makes it close to unpunishable by most characters, especially with the reduced landing lag.

 

[Altais]

I'm really liking these new changes--though, I'm still annoyed Robin's Fire Jab STILL isn't a true combo. So far, I've only tested Robin in training mode. To help you lot with analysing, I will upload some For Glory matches, once I'm done critiquing a few novellas.

 

[9029]

Thank Naga for these new buffs. Still won't help my Scrub Tactician status though. It's good to know that Robin has a bit more viability now.

 

[PK Gaming]

The new Bair is super sexy.

Bair is a legit option to throw out in neutral, especially if you're descending. It really gives you some breathing room now.

Molto bella.

 

[_Shinta_]

The new Bair is super sexy.

Bair is a legit option to throw out in neutral, especially if you're descending. It really gives you some breathing room now.

Molto bella.

Possible to upload a video? I just wonder how it works against speedy characters and if I've been throwing it out too early.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

This isn't really related necessarily to the changes, but you say that we shouldn't land with fair. Does this mean that we shouldn't fast fall after doing a fair on shield? I typically fast fall after almost every aerial, but I don't know if that's actually the best thing to be doing. Are there any aerials which we should fast fall after doing?

 

[_Shinta_]

This isn't really related necessarily to the changes, but you say that we shouldn't land with fair. Does this mean that we shouldn't fast fall after doing a fair on shield? I typically fast fall after almost every aerial, but I don't know if that's actually the best thing to be doing. Are there any aerials which we should fast fall after doing?

If you whiff Fair and fast fall you can act again immediately with a very common follow up being Jab combos.

Hitting shield (prior to this patch at least not sure now) would put you in some lag and they would be able to counter attack you fairly easy. So if I land a fair on shield I would buffer jump immediately which would let me dodge out of their follow up more often then not.

 

[Raziek]

It's fine to hit a Fair on shield and land so it autocancels, you just don't want to have it not auto-cancel and suffer the hard landing lag.

 

[PK Gaming]

Possible to upload a video? I just wonder how it works against speedy characters and if I've been throwing it out too early.

I can't do that. You just have to feel it out I guess. You're not jumping up and down and spamming it, you're just occasionally throwing it out in neutral and just feeling the opponent I guess. It can cover landings if your opponent is behind you.

 

[TheHypnotoad]

It's fine to hit a Fair on shield and land so it autocancels, you just don't want to have it not auto-cancel and suffer the hard landing lag.

So does this mean you shouldn't SHFF it? Will fastfalling cause you to miss the auto-cancel window?

Also, you'd better not be switching to Corrin when he/she gets released. Robin needs all the high-level representation he/she can get. D:

 

[Raziek]

Fast-falling it won't cause you to miss auto-cancel unless you fast-fall too early.

I am not 'switching' to Corrin, per se, but I am absolutely going to be playing both characters.

 

[Delzethin]

Seriously, though, what changed with our dthrow and why haven't the guys doing the patch notes looked into it?

 

[Nah]

You could always try asking (again) in the patch notes discussion thread or even ask one of them directly I guess

 

[Suiko]

The d-throw change still isn't in the patch notes nor here...
Not to sound impatient or rude, but could anybody find out/know somebody who could find out?

 

[PK Gaming]

Possible to upload a video? I just wonder how it works against speedy characters and if I've been throwing it out too early.

https://youtu.be/LDDzF4_IVSw?t=326

 

[Suiko]

Still no news on our d-throw? This is really bothering me. Are we sure that something even changed?

 

[FieryRebirth]

There is going to be a patch tomorrow; you may see change in D-throw for sure this time, as well as an actual discussion. Imo, I don't see that happening.

 

[Zareidriel]

The real problem is, I don't know if anyone has a copy of 1.1.2 they would be able to test against 1.1.3. And the problem will only get worse tomorrow.

We may never know if there really was a downthrow change, and what it might be.

 

[Delzethin]

Yeah, we never did figure out what changed with our dthrow...

I mean, we wouldn't have just conjured up a slightly longer Checkmate range or the ability to rarely combo into fair or bair...