Rivals of Aether - Official Thread

[jhunter_d]

Will I get an e-mail if I'm declined?

Sorry for bothering you so much, but I'm pretty excited. Can you tell me how many days it took for them to send you the e-mail.

I dunno if you'll get any email if you're declined. Sorry about that, but maybe there are some others here that you could ask.
Generally they all go out in batches. For instance, I sent my application on January 19, but got a reply on March 14. Because the new playtesting build is so close, though, there probably won't be as much as a gap.

Also, protip: if you want to add something to your post, it's recommended that instead of double posting, you edit. Just a tip, other than that, you're not bothering me at all.

 

[Gavinwie]

Thanks for your help!

 

[jhunter_d]

Thanks for your help!

No problemo, and good luck with the application!

 

[steak4prez]

Forsburn

Tweaked the orange one a bit more to my liking.

Spoiler

Spoiler

//Cloak
202
109
0
//body
152
102
32
//Flame_Yellow
255
224
160
//Flame_Orange
255
166
73
//Flame_Red
208
96
10
//Cloak Dark
140
49
0

Spoiler

//Cloak
195
95
160
//body
128
90
54
//Flame_Yellow
255
220
255
//Flame_Orange
220
215
255
//Flame_Red
160
150
220
//Cloak Dark
115
15
80

Wrastor

Spoiler

Spoiler

//Body
245
160
10
//Hands
195
102
0
//Scarf Light
190
195
230
//Belly
255
230
200

Spoiler

//Body
160
150
220
//Hands
185
85
150
//Scarf Light
255
220
255
//Belly
220
215
255

I think those two are the only two I'll post for now. Still iffy on some of the other characters at the moment.

 

[4nace]

@Playtester Applicants:

You will NOT get an email if you are not accepted. We simply get too many applicants to do that.

We have a new build going out next week. Will be looking to add about 70 players total. If you do not get an email next week then we might add a few more in the following weeks, but your next best chance to get your hands on the game would be later in the summer when we hope to do either an Early Access or a Demo.

Thanks,
Dan

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

Whoooo new build. Excited for new Wrastor combos and parriable (parryable?) bubbles.

 

[Xanthus]

Zetterburns recovery is definitely the worst. If you knock Zetterburn offstage, and he doesn't die, you didn't pick the right option. Period. He will always die.

I think the good thing about having the ledge grab in melee is it gives every character another safe option (when it isnt covered) for recovery. The way you currently cover recovery options in RoA is just wait behind the ledge, and punish when they make a choice. If there's potential for you to get hit, parry/ step back further. Orcane with a puddle I think has the best option coverage, although zetters ground fire on the ledge is fantastic as well if you can smash them into it / they land on it.

I feel like the other characters can mix it up, but zetterburns recovery , even though you can mix it up in the middle, in the end he HAS to go to the same place, and will have some sort of recovery frames. The only option he can do where the opponent may have to choose one coverage over the other is on air armada, where the top platform is so far you can't really cover everything by waiting back on the ground.

I'm not sure what would fix it, but what if he kept momentum at the end of his upB? Would definitely give him some more options, maybe even be able to go over opponents because he won't drop on top of them from going high!

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

I think the Zetterburn mixup, other than the obvious platform attempts, is walljump->dodge on. Dodges in this game are super hard to punish if you aren't ready for it, especially on a character with a shine/whatever frame his nair comes out on. He still has by far the worst recovery, given how often you can force him to dodge early and still be on stage in time to guard him, but it's not a 100% death rate by any means.

 

[steak4prez]

Been playing a lot of Forsburn lately and I think it would be great if he were able to control distance moved with his Up-Special. For instance, easing the control stick right would move him less distance than mashing right. Would make his recovery slightly less predictable, give the player more control over it.

Also because I like hitting enemies with it.

 

[Chuck Tatum]

In response to Xanthus and Absolute's posts above... I agree with Xanthus that Zburn is easily stuffed in most situations unless the edge guarder makes a stupid mistake.

I feel that the reason that Fox and Falco get away with having the same recovery as Zetter is that they also have illusion to threaten an extra option (helps that illusion is very fast as well)

Zetter certainly needs more recovery versatility. Regardless of balance no character should feel that helpless off stage.

Suggestions:

1) Make one of Zetter's basic aerials affect his momentum. For instance, his jumping neutral could raise him up in to the air the first time he uses it after leaving the ground. His up Air could do the same. Something similar to Marios down-A in brawl.

2) Make Zetter's down-B act somewhat like an illusion; Give it a horizontal rather than a diagonal arc... this might make it just a more interesting move in general given it's current limited utility.
Even if it just very quickly dashed diagonally downwards, if it allowed you to wall jump and recover out of it that might help a LOT. Currently I feel that Zburn's downB doesn't feel very rewarding and also doesn't really match his theme so it seems apt for a change any way.

3) just plain increase the distance of Zburn's up-B by a ton. I feel that given how easy it is to predict and stuff it is perfectly reasonable to expect it to go much further than it does.

4) Give Zetter a variable up-B distance; If Zetter could smash-B on his up B to go far, and tilt-B to go a lesser distance... you may be able to use that variability to trip up your opponent and trick them to letting you back.

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

>no character should feel that helpless off stage.

I disagree. Characters having extreme weaknesses isn't an inherently bad design. I really don't think that zetter needs recovery buffs at all; if he needs buffs they should go to his on stage neutral game (not that he needs them right now at all).

Points 1 and 2 would effect more than just his recovery in ways I would be extremely hesitant to add. Burst movement on stage is... a scary thing to balance. Especially with a game with punishes as hard as this ones.

4 is interesting, but I don't think you'd ever opt for a shorter distance? I can't think of a time that would be a valuable mixup.

And again, I don't think that a)Zetter literally dies every time he's offstage, or b)even if that was true it'd be an inherently bad thing.

 

[Puppyfaic]

>no character should feel that helpless off stage.

I disagree. Characters having extreme weaknesses isn't an inherently bad design.

Little Mac.

It's a horrible design and should never be done.

 

[Death By Hugs]

Will I get an e-mail if I'm declined?

No. It takes a while for them to send a response and they don't send you an e-mail saying you didn't get in so have patience.

 

[jhunter_d]

In response to Xanthus and Absolute's posts above... I agree with Xanthus that Zburn is easily stuffed in most situations unless the edge guarder makes a stupid mistake.

I feel that the reason that Fox and Falco get away with having the same recovery as Zetter is that they also have illusion to threaten an extra option (helps that illusion is very fast as well)

Zetter certainly needs more recovery versatility. Regardless of balance no character should feel that helpless off stage.

Suggestions:

1) Make one of Zetter's basic aerials affect his momentum. For instance, his jumping neutral could raise him up in to the air the first time he uses it after leaving the ground. His up Air could do the same. Something similar to Marios down-A in brawl.

2) Make Zetter's down-B act somewhat like an illusion; Give it a horizontal rather than a diagonal arc... this might make it just a more interesting move in general given it's current limited utility.
Even if it just very quickly dashed diagonally downwards, if it allowed you to wall jump and recover out of it that might help a LOT. Currently I feel that Zburn's downB doesn't feel very rewarding and also doesn't really match his theme so it seems apt for a change any way.

3) just plain increase the distance of Zburn's up-B by a ton. I feel that given how easy it is to predict and stuff it is perfectly reasonable to expect it to go much further than it does.

4) Give Zetter a variable up-B distance; If Zetter could smash-B on his up B to go far, and tilt-B to go a lesser distance... you may be able to use that variability to trip up your opponent and trick them to letting you back.

I think that if Zetter's down-B was made to go horizontally, it shouldn't last "forever", and Zetter should go into specialfall after its use, like Melee's illusion. On ground, though, I think that Zetter's down-B should work the same way as it currently does, but maybe toning down the startup lag. Maybe the angle for this new and improved aerial down-B should be something in between Fox's illusion and the aerial Falcon Kick, similar to Wolf's illusion (but reversed, going high to low). Maybe in that case, the move would still spike, but the knockback would be turned way down. It could also help combos as well. The problem is that I don't really know what the animation would look like. Maybe the flaming fist would be facing horizontally instead of diagonally.

Also, new build hype! I can't wait to see if I got lucky this time. I think that every now and then, I have a good suggestion and hopefully I'll be able to create more videos.

 

[Gavinwie]

From what I've seen, Kragg doesn't seem very good.

 

[someonetookjacob]

I do like the idea of zetter being able to jump out of his down-b, But I agree with AbsoluteBlack. Right now Zetterburn has incredible combos and killing power, and the most reliable projectile in the game. He also has fast on stage movement to effectively use all those things. His bad recovery balances that out. And like AbsoluteBlack said. He can make it back. He has his wall jump and his airdodge out of up-b to help mix it up. I am by no means saying his recovery isnt bad, But I am not sure all of you realize how many options he has. Also edge guarding in this game is in general A LOT easier than in smash on all the characters (maybe not wrastor?). So thats something to bare in mind.

But again, I like the idea of him being able to jump out of down-b to give him an added edge guarding option thats super disrespectful. (but otherwise keeping it the same)

 

[Chuck Tatum]

I agree that it is fine for a character to have an inferior recovery for balance or just flavor reasons.

What I dont agree with is that Zetterburn's recovery is 'inferior.' Rather, it is... 'abysmal'. Just absolutely terrible.

A character's balance should not be predicated on the idea that their recovery is completely worthless and if they get knocked off of the stage they will almost never recover.

I disagree with players who are saying it's 'not that bad' I believe as players get better and better we will see Zetter recovering in fewer and fewer situations; eventually at top level Zetter will almost never recover IMO. Certainly as my play group has improved in skill off stage Zetter seems increasingly more like a 'free kill.' (I cant help but think of how incredibly difficult recovering with Fox and Falco was in melee at high levels and their recovery was LEAPS AND BOUNDS better than Zburns is.)

For those saying Zetter has too many options and his recovery should be bad for balance... 1) he is about to get a major nerf to his flaming smash attacks. 2) several other chars are about to get buffs. 3) I am unconvinced he is so significantly better than the other chars that he deserves to have such a crappy recovery even in the game's current state. 4) Something should change any way because Zetter's recovery is just no fun for either player. if moves have to get shuffled around to keep it fair so be it... this is a big problem for the game IMO.

Personally I feel cheap edge guarding it especially in Zburn vs Zburn where charge-B is just SO effective against it. It's not fun to do either, as Zetter you just feel helpless in the air and it's not fun to up-B four or five times while you just get stuffed each time easily. Going for the walljump / stage is rarely an option with how effective on stage edge guards are when compared with Smash. This is a pretty consistent complaint among my playgroup. It's almost come to the point where we feel like apologizing for the cheesy edge guards against Zburn. :/

ps: I have some REALLY cool combo GIF's i'll be uploading in the next few days. I am really excited to show you guys some of this stuff.

 

[someonetookjacob]

I agree that it is fine for a character to have an inferior recovery for balance or just flavor reasons.

What I dont agree with is that Zetterburn's recovery is 'inferior.' Rather, it is... 'abysmal'. Just absolutely terrible.

A character's balance should not be predicated on the idea that their recovery is completely worthless and if they get knocked off of the stage they will almost never recover.

I disagree with players who are saying it's 'not that bad' I believe as players get better and better we will see Zetter recovering in fewer and fewer situations; eventually at top level Zetter will almost never recover IMO. Certainly as my play group has improved in skill off stage Zetter seems increasingly more like a 'free kill.' (I cant help but think of how incredibly difficult recovering with Fox and Falco was in melee at high levels and their recovery was LEAPS AND BOUNDS better than Zburns is.)

For those saying Zetter has too many options and his recovery should be bad for balance... 1) he is about to get a major nerf to his flaming smash attacks. 2) several other chars are about to get buffs. 3) I am unconvinced he is so significantly better than the other chars that he deserves to have such a crappy recovery even in the game's current state. 4) Something should change any way because Zetter's recovery is just no fun for either player. if moves have to get shuffled around to keep it fair so be it... this is a big problem for the game IMO.

Personally I feel cheap edge guarding it especially in Zburn vs Zburn where charge-B is just SO effective against it. It's not fun to do either, as Zetter you just feel helpless in the air and it's not fun to up-B four or five times while you just get stuffed each time easily. Going for the walljump / stage is rarely an option with how effective on stage edge guards are when compared with Smash. This is a pretty consistent complaint among my playgroup. It's almost come to the point where we feel like apologizing for the cheesy edge guards against Zburn. :/

ps: I have some REALLY cool combo GIF's i'll be uploading in the next few days. I am really excited to show you guys some of this stuff.

I think buffing zetters recovery for general game enjoyment reasons is a good argument. I don't necessarily agree but it is a good point. The game being fun is one of the most important things, after all. I do not think he needs it for balance reasons.

The one thing I want to reiterate is that EVERY character (maybe not wrastor) almost never makes it back at higher level play. So while zetterburn may be at the bottom of that list, orcane and kragg are right down there with him. They have about one more option a piece but almost all the time both can be covered. I played alot of orcane-v-zetter yesterday and I never made it back with the puddle without getting f-smashed. If I made it back it was with side-b and only because the zetter player messed up the spacing or timing to punish it. What I am trying to say is that this might just be part of RoA. Its different than smash, but that doesnt have to be a bad thing. Recovering is a desperate struggle. There is no safe option. There is only tricking your opponent into messing up.

That said if thats the feel Dan wants forsburns smoke + up-b should be limited somehow.

 

[Chuck Tatum]

I agree that in general recoveries are easy to stuff in RoA as compared with melee. I don't know if I agree that it's a good thing. IMO it removes a bit of depth from the formula. The game is, I think, just hands down more interesting when the recovery game is more dynamic and complex.

Simplifying things towards 'recoveries usually don't work and then you die' devalues the space control mechanics that are central to making a system like this feel fun.

as I have said before... I like this game better than melee at this point for various reasons but it shouldn't just be different for the sake of being different and it seems clear to me that the more edge guarding / recovery options players have the more interesting and dynamic high level play will be. Current balance is too far in favor of edge guarding player in most situations (Melee was VERY punishing to recovering players... RoA is INSANELY punishing to recovering players.) and I don't think that particular tendency makes the game 'better' in any way... (but lots of other awesome things do.)

The edge guarding player has earned and should gain a large advantage but RoA takes it a bit too far IMO. This is especially true for Zetter.

Most characters have two viable recovery options + janky walljump shenanigans. Zetter has just one option besides walljump shenanigans. In melee characters often had like 4 or 5 and it was STILL hard to come back against someone who knew what they were doing. I strongly feel that it would be a good idea to improve basically all recoveries.

 

[steak4prez]

edge guarding

Poking my head into this discussion.

When you guys first started talking about how Zetterburn's recovery was bad, my initial impression was less that his recovery was not as down-right no-good as it seemed like you were suggesting and more that off-stage punishes are just a very powerful mechanic in this game. That seems to be the conclusion you guys have arrived at. I know for sure that Zetterburn, Forsburn, and Kragg (maybe Wrastor too with next build's D-Strong change, we'll see how effective it is) have very reliable, low-risk spike moves.

Whenever people started getting their hands on Smash 4, certain mechanics were deemed OP like rolling and Little Mac, and it wasn't too long before people began to adapt to those mechanics and find out that there was counterplay to them. I would say to just let the metagame develop for a bit and see how people adapt to the potent edgeguards that are all the rage right now before swinging the nerf bat, but obviously that's hard to say without organized multiplayer being a thing yet.

One thing to note is that with the next patch both hitstun and knockback are being reduced. Try ZBurn out after the patch hits and see if he feels as helpless as he currently feels and see if off-stage punishes are still as crazy as they currently seem.

I think you raise a good point about how good charged Neutral-Special is in ZBurn dittos, can't really think of what you'd do to change it. One ditto out of all the game's matchups seems so niche to change the whole move, especially when it's not nearly as useful in other matchups. Maybe reduce the speed at which N-Special comes out so that the recovering ZBurn has a window of opportunity to bait it out by air-dodging when they suspect the edgeguarding ZBurn will unleash it? You could also make it so that way after once he's charged it enough to make the large explosion, ZBurn will automatically release it, so that way edgeguarding with it takes more skill, but there should probably be a buff to compensate. Either way, it's a really niche ability and I would understand if it wasn't changed that much.

Honestly the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of edge-guarding being too powerful is how no stage in the game offers much for characters who are more susceptible to edge-guards (besides I guess Aether Rock Wall). When you're off-stage, the way you re-approach the stage is more or less the same for every stage. Even Treetop Ledge is, functionally speaking, just another flat platform stage with platforms above it. I would hope that at least one of the as-of-yet unfinished stages there will be more interesting ways to think about being off-stage. Even something like the barrel under N64 Kongo Jungle is, well, something.

 

[Chuck Tatum]

That's a good point Steak. We haven't seen the new version so I am excited to see the community reaction to the changes. It's very possible that with time we will see that the edge guarding game was never a problem, or the upcoming changes might do more to address it than I originally thought.

Also, I agree that an brawl animal crossing style moving platform on one of the stages would make for some awesome edge guarding set ups.

 

[steak4prez]

The AC stages are great examples of a simple stage with a simple enough mechanic to make approaches a little different.

 

[4nace]

@ steak4prez

Agreed with you a lot on your assessment of recoveries. Charged Nspecial will be changed in the build next week. It will now automatically release at the end of the charge. Prevents the Ditto from being too stagnant.

And a moving plat stage would be pretty awesome. I agree. Won't fit thematically on Forsburn's stage though and his is next. We'll see if we can slip one in for launch.

-Dan

 

[Chuck Tatum]

Playing this game again tonight and thinking about what some of you were saying... I do feel that the system seems to expand as we get better and I start to see more off stage edge guards, more insane recoveries... more miraculous DI that makes me reconsider some of my earlier thoughts.

I feel that the edge guarding game is really opening up as we get better at recovering the game so I am interested to see how it develops over time.

 

[Mum]

I can't wait to see the chsnges to FBurn in the patch notes.

One thing to note is that with the next patch both hitstun and knockback are being reduced. Try ZBurn out after the patch hits and see if he feels as helpless as he currently feels and see if off-stage punishes are still as crazy as they currently seem.

This sounds like a big deal! Won't this change the combo game?

 

[someonetookjacob]

I can't wait to see the chsnges to FBurn in the patch notes.



This sounds like a big deal! Won't this change the combo game?

I could be wrong but I think the changes to hitstun and knock back are mostly a reduction in their growth rate, not their base values. So I think things that were combo moves before, will still be combo moves.

Playing this game again tonight and thinking about what some of you were saying... I do feel that the system seems to expand as we get better and I start to see more off stage edge guards, more insane recoveries... more miraculous DI that makes me reconsider some of my earlier thoughts.

I feel that the edge guarding game is really opening up as we get better at recovering the game so I am interested to see how it develops over time.

This is interesting, I am starting to come around to what you were saying too. It does seem to remove 'fun' from the game to leave z-burn with fewer options off stage than everyone else. I dont advocate anything major, but after thinking about it for a while I have an idea I like and I think is in line with his other stuff.

I think allowing you to air-dodge OUT of his down b after some set distance to cancel it and its momentum, and having that return his second jump to him (a RoA twist on falcon's kick) could be good. The distance before he could airdodge could be maybe 2/3rds - 1/2 of what PM Ganon's is. It has nice interplay with his up-b in that you dont always want to do it. If you do you burn your airdodge, you wont be able to airdodge out of up-b. So there is some decision making that hast to go into it. It also has some risk. If you mis-time the airdodge you might fall too far. I like that while it will help him its not something that he always wants to do (if he is knocked high, obviously if he is low it wouldnt help) and there is some skill required. With the extra double jump, slight gain in horizontal distance, and reduced time for the opponent to set up an edge guard I think it might help him more than it seems like it would, especially given how with proper DI you can usually be sent pretty high when you are hit offstage. And most importantly It gives the zetterburn player more things to be doing and thinking about off stage, which is more fun and would hopefully reduce the amount of hopelessness he feels. Obviously its something that would have to be tested to see if it really is a good idea, but its my pitch to help bridge the gap between zetterburn and the rest of the cast,s recovery options (although I personally am not as sure that gap is as wide as some of the other play testers believe, but I dont play zetter much either so I am not sure I am a fair judge).

Also has the plus of giving him a really disrespectful edge guard option. Which I am a big fan of.

 

[Aizen]

It changes which character owns the projectile if you parry it so it changes color to reflect that. In orcane dittos red can parry a blue projectile for example and the puddle becomes red instead of blue.

I'm confused then. Wouldn't the White palette Forsburn make a white fire instead of default colored fire then?

 

[someonetookjacob]

I'm confused then. Wouldn't the White palette Forsburn make a white fire instead of default colored fire then?

I believe the change in ownership doesnt map to the right color unless they are dittos. Its probably something like white FB is color pallet 4, so the parry maps the fire ball color to zetterburns color pallet 4 fireball (some of the fires for different pallets look like the default one). It might also just change to the default color no matter what if it isnt dittos.. You can probably figure out which of those is the case with some quick testing. (I know yesterday when normal ZB parried my kragg's pillar it changed to normal pillar color. So it should be one of those possibilities)

 

[RoA_Zam]

@AizenCaptain5_ @ someonetookjacob Yeah, I think Jacob got it right. Kragg rocks display correctly based on which kragg or zetterburn parries it as well

 

[Chuck Tatum]

I could be wrong but I think the changes to hitstun and knock back are mostly a reduction in their growth rate, not their base values. So I think things that were combo moves before, will still be combo moves.


This is interesting, I am starting to come around to what you were saying too. It does seem to remove 'fun' from the game to leave z-burn with fewer options off stage than everyone else. I dont advocate anything major, but after thinking about it for a while I have an idea I like and I think is in line with his other stuff.

I think allowing you to air-dodge OUT of his down b after some set distance to cancel it and its momentum, and having that return his second jump to him (a RoA twist on falcon's kick) could be good. The distance before he could airdodge could be maybe 2/3rds - 1/2 of what PM Ganon's is. It has nice interplay with his up-b in that you dont always want to do it. If you do you burn your airdodge, you wont be able to airdodge out of up-b. So there is some decision making that hast to go into it. It also has some risk. If you mis-time the airdodge you might fall too far. I like that while it will help him its not something that he always wants to do (if he is knocked high, obviously if he is low it wouldnt help) and there is some skill required. With the extra double jump, slight gain in horizontal distance, and reduced time for the opponent to set up an edge guard I think it might help him more than it seems like it would, especially given how with proper DI you can usually be sent pretty high when you are hit offstage. And most importantly It gives the zetterburn player more things to be doing and thinking about off stage, which is more fun and would hopefully reduce the amount of hopelessness he feels. Obviously its something that would have to be tested to see if it really is a good idea, but its my pitch to help bridge the gap between zetterburn and the rest of the cast,s recovery options (although I personally am not as sure that gap is as wide as some of the other play testers believe, but I dont play zetter much either so I am not sure I am a fair judge).

Also has the plus of giving him a really disrespectful edge guard option. Which I am a big fan of.

I have to say I am a big fan of this idea. I think it's a great solution and it sounds really fun.

 

[steak4prez]

I could be wrong but I think the changes to hitstun and knock back are mostly a reduction in their growth rate, not their base values. So I think things that were combo moves before, will still be combo moves.

I don't remember the numbers exactly but this is essentially correct. You're going to notice changes more at higher %. Probably the biggest thing you should notice is less deaths due to flying across the map while in extended hitstun.

 

[CharizardBoss]

For some odd reason I cant seem to reach the email. I'm very exited about this game and I'm trying to apply.

 

[Gavinwie]

For some odd reason I cant seem to reach the email. I'm very exited about this game and I'm trying to apply.

I applied a few days ago, and it worked fine. If you didn't already try and copy/paste the email.

 

[jhunter_d]

Idk if this is already well known, but I found that if you parry a jab (I've only tested with the first hit of the jab combo but I'll test with other hits of the jab combo), your opponent doesn't incur any lag. Is this intentional?

Also, weird idea about Kragg: maybe, his block should decay over time and eventually disappear, allowing him to pull out another block and use another. This might incentivize Kragg players to use the block more because it's not nearly as risky to throw out.

Also, if d4nace is going for the idea that in dittoes, each player should be able to utilize the other player's environmental abilities (like Kragg's block, or Forsburn's smoke), then similarly I think that Orcanes should be able to use each others' puddles to extend the range of their strong attacks. Just a thought.

 

[Hamman88]

I have never even played the game and I already see issue with that. If an Orcane can use an an opponents puddle then they are eliminating the opponents recovery option, if you cant jump back to the stage its death. Even if you didnt consume the opponents puddle when doing so, it would still provide incentive not to puddle, as it creates an unconsumable zone of enhanced range strongs.

 

[RoA_Zam]

My own trademark combo finally recorded in action (;

This is how I personally feel about that combo video released before mine.

 

[ZaoMonichi]

noice video m9.

I was there

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

bair ->immediate dsmash ->watch him stand there and get fireballed ->watch him not air dodge out of nair->dair ->don't use safe and just as guaranteed upb spike that you could have lived from

sick signature combo m8

 

[RoA_Zam]

My own personal combo finally recorded in action (;

bair ->immediate dsmash ->watch him stand there and get fireballed ->watch him not air dodge out of nair->dair ->don't use safe and just as guaranteed upb spike that you could have lived from

sick signature combo m8

Just the Nair Dair downB homie. It was guaranteed don't fret. I play for style, not being lame.

And if I upB'd instead he'd have enough time to upB himself and he would have survived the attack. Had i upB'd I may have missed the proper trajectory and ended up killing myself for nothing anyways. Try again buckaroo.

 

[AbsoluteBlack]

Upb angled down spike ->walljump decimate them is way hotter, bro. And Nair dair never works in my experience but I play against people who know how to DI

jk tho spike to spike is cool regardless of guaranteed or no. This game is ****ing amazing