Rivals of Aether - Official Thread

[Death By Hugs]

Will There be grabbing in this game? If not, I suggest you nerf the parry because it beats attacks every time. With the ability to grab a parrying opponent, this would re-create the rock paper scissors feel between attacks, grabs, and shields. Even if there's only the option to pummel or throw in 1 direction, I hope you add grabs to Rivals of Aether.

 

[Death By Hugs]

Will There be grabbing in this game? If not, I suggest you nerf the parry because it beats attacks every time. With the ability to grab a parrying opponent, this would re-create the rock paper scissors feel between attacks, grabs, and shields. Even if there's only the option to pummel or throw in 1 direction, I hope you add grabs to Rivals of Aether.

 

[Death By Hugs]

Wait... why did it just send twice?

 

[Beets]

I'll just leave this here...

The character immediately above Zetterburn is Rivals's analog to Falco LOL.

 

[Burnsy]

People seem to forget that jabs 1 and 2 beat parry. They go into their parry frames and endlag and you just wait for your jab to end, then punish. Most people dont realize this because to them, jab 1 always leads into jab 3

 

[Sol_Vent]

People seem to forget that jab beats parry cleanly

But that's more of a check than a counter. The parry-er still gets invincibility and the upper hand.

I think it would be reasonable to, at the very least, give certain attacks an "unparry-able" property. Charged smashes might be a worthy candidate.

 

[Burnsy]

They don't get the upper hand unless you missed your cue to punish. Jab is an effective response to parry-heavy playstylew. Its your own fault if you choose to do nothing after they parry your jab.

 

[Streetwize]

Will There be grabbing in this game? If not, I suggest you nerf the parry because it beats attacks every time. With the ability to grab a parrying opponent, this would re-create the rock paper scissors feel between attacks, grabs, and shields. Even if there's only the option to pummel or throw in 1 direction, I hope you add grabs to Rivals of Aether.

This has been discussed multiple times. It's understandable since there are so many pages He's said it multiple times: grabs won't be added for scope purposes. It's too much work for him to put in and balance. I'd say he only needs two, but four seems to be the plan IF there were to be throws. Even then, I can't see grabs being part of the aggressive design unless the time that people can grab is shortened.
Also, report your own posts if you want them deleted, especially if they are duplicates.

 

[Sol_Vent]

They don't get the upper hand unless you missed your cue to punish. Jab is an effective response to parry-heavy playstylew. Its your own fault if you choose to do nothing after they parry your jab.

How do you punish an invincible opponent? Or do anything to them at all for that matter? Am I missing something here?

 

[Burnsy]

How do you punish an invincible opponent? Or do anything to them at all for that matter? Am I missing something here?

Wait for the invincibility to end? Throw out something with a lot of active frames? Get creative.

 

[Sol_Vent]

Wait for the invincibility to end? Throw out something with a lot of active frames? Get creative.

But they can still do anything while their invincibility is up. If they throw out a move at the same time I do, I get hit. And if I throw out something with a lot of active frames, can't they just parry that when the invincibility ends? I suppose can wait and try to parry their attack, but that's me on the defensive, at a disadvantage. Furthermore, the opponent could just decide to back off and reset to neutral if they wanted, though I don't see why they would.

Hmm... I just realized how similar parrying is to Soul Calibur's Guard Impact.

 

[Yurya]

This has been discussed multiple times. It's understandable since there are so many pages He's said it multiple times: grabs won't be added for scope purposes. .

But in his latest post on this thread he said:

I have been thinking of experimenting with grabs.

 

[TOGOpuff]

But in his latest post on this thread he said:

this was character specific. A command grab.

 

[Cowhunter]

If I can offer my opinion, I'd like to throw out my thoughts on the whole grabbing situation.

1. Grabs being something that every character has access too seems out of this game's current scope, as others have said. More importantly, I believe that when 4nace said that he wanted to experiment with grabs, he meant for a character or two. Putting grabs in for every character, by this point in development, would require a large rework of offense/defense balance.

2. A single character having a grab (and being a kind of half-grappler) seems like a great idea. As to how grabs works with parries, it seems best that they wouldn't ignore the parry, as that would give that one character an extreme offensive advantage as compared to the rest of the cast. Meanwhile it's possible to balance that, it looks like it would come with many problems, not to mention how frustrating it would feel to get grabbed out of one of the only defensive mechanics in the game that no other character or move can penetrate. However, it doesn't seem right for grabs to activate the parry either, as the nature of grabs is different from that of an attack. Grabs aren't used for pressure, spacing, or comboing in the same sense as normal attacks. Grabs are often used as a safe option against a defending player, a way of countering pressure, or a way to reset your current pressure/combo in an unexpected and not guaranteed way. So, then, it seems best that a command grab would neither activate nor ignore the counter, but rather have no effect and leave both players in a neutral position.

I also want to provide some input on zoners in RoA, but I think I need to see (or play if possible) the game a little more before that.

 

[TOGOpuff]

Imo, if anything grabs should whiff on parries, giving none of the characters advantage and putting them back into neutral position.

 

[RoA_Zam]

So I filled in the chart that Sanic posted with some speculation on which spot is for which element.

Spoiler: Warning! Speculation ahead!

Explanations:
Fire- The next character. I'm thinking of this guy as the "advanced" balanced character where Zetterburn is the "basic" one.

Water- Ice character, needs to be on the ground to benefit from traction-altering stuff they'll inevitably have. I'm imagining a speedy character with shades of CF and Luigi.

Air- Air zoner! Pretty simple reasoning, air characters belong in the air. Oh, and since we seem to be following Golden Sun logic, I'd say this character is lightning-elemental.

Earth- A plant-based character that uses vines (based on the game's logo), and a "Dhalsim" type fighter that maybe draws some inspiration from ZSS.


That's what I'm imagining anyway. What do you guys think?

You got 2 of 4 of the spots correct. That's all I'm gonna say.

 

[akf09]

grappler character would be legit or if each element had 1 character that had a parry and 1 character that had a grab. also i showed a friend of mine from the smash group im in (in idaho) and he went crazy over it and was almost late to work we played so much. he seemed very hype about roa and his only complaint was there needed to be more characters and we both agreed that 12 would be enough characters to suffice since we both love smash 64 and thats all that game had

 

[Burnsy]

But they can still do anything while their invincibility is up. If they throw out a move at the same time I do, I get hit. And if I throw out something with a lot of active frames, can't they just parry that when the invincibility ends? I suppose can wait and try to parry their attack, but that's me on the defensive, at a disadvantage. Furthermore, the opponent could just decide to back off and reset to neutral if they wanted, though I don't see why they would.

Hmm... I just realized how similar parrying is to Soul Calibur's Guard Impact.

Are you certain this is true? I'd like confirmation that parrying characters can perform actions frame 1 after their invincibility wears off. Even if thats true, jabs dont reach behind, so you still have a few frames to attack them before they can do anything if you are careful about it.

*edit*

If what you are saying is that they can attack while they have invincibility, then I think THAT is what needs to be changed. Just don't allow jab parries to give the opponent enough invincibilty to avoid punishment or attack with.

 

[Cirby64]

If you read the past few posts, I disagreed with Sanic, who said he thinks Kragg is the best character in the game, and I said that I thought Orcane was the best. All posts since have referred to that conversation. Since when did Wrastor have puddles or an uair that pushes him downward anyways? lol.

Actually, I mentioned Wrastor being the best so long you can land his Up-Special sweetspot. You replied to me, but seem to have misread Wrastor as Orcane.

 

[PabloTheDinamic]

I have been out of this because High School, but I support the grab character idea. I love how every character it's REALLY unique. Like Zetterburn... burning... Orcane's puddle strategy recover, Kragg ''creating rocks/items''', and Wrastor with the exclusively aerial strong attacks..

So, grab character (a monkey in my ideas) is a really good idea, but the grab would have to be possibly countered or something like that to prevent grab being broken.

And maybe a character with ''sword arms'' or something like that would be cool. Specially if it is like Lucina (violent and short ranged attacks).

Btw, yes, Orcane is the best character on the actual beta.

 

[Sol_Vent]

If what you are saying is that they can attack while they have invincibility, then I think THAT is what needs to be changed. Just don't allow jab parries to give the opponent enough invincibilty to avoid punishment or attack with.

Yes, this is what I mean. I'd say the parry has pretty much the same amount of cooldown as most if not all jab1s, to be honest.

I think another way of adjusting parries would be to increase the cooldown for a whiffed parry, this idea being related to that thought earlier about parries being similar to sc's guard impact. That way the counter to them is just, you know, waiting.

 

[akf09]

just make it so grab character doesnt have a parry but a grab instead and makes it so u can parry grabs but they just cancel out

 

[Boss N]

I don't think it would be a bad idea for a grab to activate a parry, since the grab in this game would still be used as another offensive tool instead as a defensive punish. For example, lets say this grappling character is the possible vine character and can extends it's… things. (could be arms, could be tentacle things, idk) The inherent nature of the grapple in this game would be used to close the distance between you and your opponent and bring them closer to you so you can wail on them. If they become to obvious with this attack though, the only reasonable and balanced response would be to parry it and punish them for being repetitive with the technique.

Also I think the next characters are going to be the fire and grass types.

 

[RoA_Zam]

It seems something horrid has come over the different animals of the world of Rivals of Aether. We've discovered near identical copies of them with skin, fur, and feathers that have turned dark. They have a strange purple-ish aura about them. What could be the cause of this?

What's worse, they appear to be multiplying, and getting stronger over time.

You must defend yourself against these abysmal clones to survive. They must be brought to an end.

Spoiler

z http://prntscr.com/68v69m
o http://prntscr.com/68vaez
w http://prntscr.com/68van1
k http://prntscr.com/68w2zj

 

[Sol_Vent]

It seems something horrid has come over the different animals of the world of Rivals of Aether. We've discovered near identical copies of them with skin, fur, and feathers that have turned dark. They have a strange purple-ish aura about them. What could be the cause of this?

What's worse, they appear to be multiplying, and getting stronger over time.

You must defend yourself against these abysmal clones to survive. They must be brought to an end.

Spoiler

z http://prntscr.com/68v69m
o http://prntscr.com/68vaez
w http://prntscr.com/68van1
k http://prntscr.com/68w2zj

Hmm. Sounds a lot like Abyss Mode as it's described in the press kit. Incidentally, do you intend to post the .ini text for these?


Also, I'd like to update on my idea for a color-making guide...by mentioning that there's nothing worthy of updating. The snow in my area has been screwing with my life in tremendously obnoxious ways, so I've barely had time to even think about it. :/

Things should calm down in the near future, though. Hopefully I'll get to spend more time playing and such.​

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

I just found out about this game today, and it's looking pretty good. I'll certainly be picking it up when it comes out. I haven't read the whole topic, but I'm just gonna throw out some speculation as to what some of the other "elements" may be for fun.

Smoke- I imagine this belonging to a quick ninja-like character who can teleport around the stage in puffs of smoke. Other specials could include a flamethrower type of move, but with smoke and embers instead of just fire. I also imagine a smoke bomb that could cause opponents to "cough" and leave them vulnerable for a bit.
Lightning- This element could be aligned with wind or fire, depending on if you're trying to emulate Avatar or Golden Sun. This character could be the swift zoning type or a powerhouse reminiscent of Zeus or something.
Plant- I expect this given that there are plants hanging off the earth part of the logo. This could belong to a ranged character who attacks with vines. Another idea is planting seeds as traps that will ensnare opponents when they walk over the seeds.
Sand- I don't have much to say about this, but it could work for the earth nation.
Metal- Another contender for the earth side of thing, because Avatar basically.
Lava- You could throw this under earth or fire depending on how you feel.
Ice- Seems like the most obvious choice. I imagine this character being able to slide around the stage as well as creating ice constructs or freezing people.
Steam- I imagine something similar to smoke.
Sound- Could work for the air guys since sound and air are sort of related. I know some Avatar fans were throwing this idea around when trying to come up with a sub bending technique for air. Perhaps this character could use some sort of (wind) instrument or maybe not.

That's about all I can think of.

 

[RoA_Zam]

I just found out about this game today, and it's looking pretty good. I'll certainly be picking it up when it comes out. I haven't read the whole topic, but I'm just gonna throw out some speculation as to what some of the other "elements" may be for fun.

Smoke- I imagine this belonging to a quick ninja-like character who can teleport around the stage in puffs of smoke. Other specials could include a flamethrower type of move, but with smoke and embers instead of just fire. I also imagine a smoke bomb that could cause opponents to "cough" and leave them vulnerable for a bit.
Lightning- This element could be aligned with wind or fire, depending on if you're trying to emulate Avatar or Golden Sun. This character could be the swift zoning type or a powerhouse reminiscent of Zeus or something.
Plant- I expect this given that there are plants hanging off the earth part of the logo. This could belong to a ranged character who attacks with vines. Another idea is planting seeds as traps that will ensnare opponents when they walk over the seeds.
Sand- I don't have much to say about this, but it could work for the earth nation.
Metal- Another contender for the earth side of thing, because Avatar basically.
Lava- You could throw this under earth or fire depending on how you feel.
Ice- Seems like the most obvious choice. I imagine this character being able to slide around the stage as well as creating ice constructs or freezing people.
Steam- I imagine something similar to smoke.
Sound- Could work for the air guys since sound and air are sort of related. I know some Avatar fans were throwing this idea around when trying to come up with a sub bending technique for air. Perhaps this character could use some sort of (wind) instrument or maybe not.

That's about all I can think of.

Now based off your ideas, limit yourself to just the top 4 of those you think it would be! Try to relate those to the base 4, so that there arent more than 2 that fit under each general elemental category. Speculation is fun hehe

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

Now based off your ideas, limit yourself to just the top 4 of those you think it would be! Try to relate those to the base 4, so that there arent more than 2 that fit under each general elemental category. Speculation is fun hehe

Sure.

Water- Ice
Earth-Plant
Wind- Electricity (Gonna assume you're gonna go the GS route)
Fire- Smoke (Honestly, this is the category I'm least sure about)

 

[Kasado-Bit]

Question. If everyone's coming up with new colors for the playable characters, why not put a color editing tool in the game, like what Team Reptile did for Lethal League?

 

[Cowhunter]

I don't think it would be a bad idea for a grab to activate a parry, since the grab in this game would still be used as another offensive tool instead as a defensive punish. For example, lets say this grappling character is the possible vine character and can extends it's… things. (could be arms, could be tentacle things, idk) The inherent nature of the grapple in this game would be used to close the distance between you and your opponent and bring them closer to you so you can wail on them. If they become to obvious with this attack though, the only reasonable and balanced response would be to parry it and punish them for being repetitive with the technique.

Not too bad sounding of an idea. Although it seems to me that giving it the same properties as an attack would lose the type of variation that grabs could bring to the game. Instead of a vine character with extend-o-grabs, why not a character with attacks that pull/vacuum in? Like vines that pull the opponent closer rather than push away like normal attacks. That could make for a really cool combo heavy character unlike most of the character's in Smash.

 

[Yurya]

Since prospective characters are the thing:

Smoke (Fire Variant) - Dan has already hinted at this character. Besides what he has said about it being deceptive and smokey, I have been envisioning a Bull/Minotaur-like creature with some surging attacks that while effective at pressure may overextend and be punishable. I don't really see projectiles but here we could have the first character with held weapon.

Lightning (Air Variant) - A Bat and electric fighter. Producing Electricity instead of Sonic waves. This guy might have some sort of gliding mechanic. An idea for an up-special could be where he rushes up and an electric shock from heaven rush to meet meaning the lower he is the higher he can get (it doesn't always have to be half-way: the Lightning could be the faster of the two). It hits hard where they meet.

Leaf (Earth Variant) - If grabs are not universal this will be the sole character to have one. I'm thinking a horse, deer or maybe Dryad.

Ice (Water Variant) - Walrus. That is all.

 

[Streetwize]

Since prospective characters are the thing:
Ice (Water Variant) - Walrus. That is all.

Nice wording. Also the first thing that came to my head is this:

Spoiler

 

[4nace]

Nice speculation haha. Planning to post an update tomorrow or Friday. We'll have more information on the new stage and perhaps a little tease about the next character.


Also working on designs for the remaining characters. Currently working on design number 6. We are between two designs. One is a Grounded Rushdown character (think like Little Mac in some ways) and another is a Grounded Zoner who would play a bit like Orcane but with more unique traps and mechanics. Since Rivals is already fairly aggressive, I haven't decided if we need another rushdown character to match against Wrastor or if we should just play with traps some more. Will let you guys know which one we go with.


Thanks,
Dan Fornace

 

[likiji123]

Nice speculation haha. Planning to post an update tomorrow or Friday. We'll have more information on the new stage and perhaps a little tease about the next character.


Also working on designs for the remaining characters. Currently working on design number 6. We are between two designs. One is a Grounded Rushdown character (think like Little Mac in some ways)

Cant wait to see the update :D
Also A litlle mac character, YES

 

[RoA_Zam]

We are between two designs. One is a Grounded Rushdown character (think like Little Mac in some ways) and another is a Grounded Zoner who would play a bit like Orcane but with more unique traps and mechanics.

I'm okay with that as long as it doesn't side B off the stage all the time

 

[Sol_Vent]

Also working on designs for the remaining characters. Currently working on design number 6. We are between two designs. One is a Grounded Rushdown character (think like Little Mac in some ways) and another is a Grounded Zoner who would play a bit like Orcane but with more unique traps and mechanics. Since Rivals is already fairly aggressive, I haven't decided if we need another rushdown character to match against Wrastor or if we should just play with traps some more. Will let you guys know which one we go with.

Hmm... The rushdown character seems like the more interesting of the two, but of course that's based on a tiny amount of information.

Will the character be visually the same either way? Or is that not even on the table yet?

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

I'm down for a Little Mac type of character. Would he/she have tons of super armor like Mac? I wouldn't mind a trap character though. I could see a plant guy using some traps, as I mentioned in my post before.

 

[RoA_Zam]

Hmm... The rushdown character seems like the more interesting of the two, but of course that's based on a tiny amount of information.

Will the character be visually the same either way? Or is that not even on the table yet?

Ryan Sicat has two different designs that him and Dan are looking at for what the character will look like. Me and Dan had some moveset discussion last night and I'm not entirely sure which way he's leaning towards right now but I'm pretty sure it's still another rushdown atm. I personally don't want another character like Wrastor and think he's enough, but if he makes it right then I wont have any problem with it.

 

[4nace]

No Super Armor, so it wouldn't be quite the same as Little Mac. Some similarities would be a character who is aggressive, fast on the ground and has a gimpable recovery.

I am favoring doing another rushdown character because it would give the roster some diversity. Also I haven't gone super crazy with dash speed yet (although Orcane is pretty fast on the ground). While another trap character could be fun, I am leaning toward making character 7 a zoner and don't want the initial roster to be too samey.

Plus Wrastor is so cocky. He needs an opponent to get in his face and bring him down a peg or two!

 

[JPIII]

No Super Armor, so it wouldn't be quite the same as Little Mac. Some similarities would be a character who is aggressive, fast on the ground and has a gimpable recovery.

I am favoring doing another rushdown character because it would give the roster some diversity. Also I haven't gone super crazy with dash speed yet (although Orcane is pretty fast on the ground). While another trap character could be fun, I am leaning toward making character 7 a zoner and don't want the initial roster to be too samey.

Plus Wrastor is so cocky. He needs an opponent to get in his face and bring him down a peg or two!

If you do make a super fast dash speed character make it have a similar play style to sonic, you get in then get out as fast as possible