Jotari
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2015
- Messages
- 408
Other redesigns
https://smashboards.com/threads/redesinging-ganondorf-but-keeping-him-the-same.513191/
https://smashboards.com/threads/new-melee-moves-for-samus.515562/
https://smashboards.com/threads/redesigning-link-but-keeping-him-the-same.518191/
https://smashboards.com/threads/redeisgning-kirby-but-keeping-him-the-same.521634/
https://smashboards.com/threads/redesigning-zelda-but-keeping-her-the-same.521781/
https://smashboards.com/threads/redesigning-ike-but-keeping-him-the-same.522334/
I've tackled Link and Ganondorf, it's time to complete the Triforce by talking about Zelda. Unlike Kirby, Samus and Link I actually used to play Zelda, back in the Brawl days. But one particular change in SSB4 really turned me off her. More on that below.
First off, it just needs to be said, Zelda's representation in Smash is really bad. Like worse than Ganondorf. Probably the worst represented character on the roster in terms of "Number of games vs number of moves directly inspired by games". Because she's appeared in over a dozen games and has...nothing in Smash. Only Phantom and her Final Smash and even then she's never quite used them that way. This is the fault of Melee where Zelda's combat was very limited, but even back then there was actually some stuff they could have pulled from that they didn't. It was all generic magical attacks...but honestly those attacks are fine. They look good on her and they work well. So I'll start out by saying I'm happy with her jab, tilts and aerials. Her dash attack looks a bit clunky but I've nothing better to replace it with. The two major things Zelda needs from her series but doesn't have are 1)Her rapier and more importaly 2) Her light arrows. And to give them to her, we're going with the Ganondorf method and replacing her Smash attacks.
Her side smash currently is a palm thrust with multiple connecting strikes. The same idea remains, only now it's a rapid thrust with her rapier.
Her Up Smash is an upward thrust based on the position she puts her rapier in during the Twilight Princess boss fight. This is quite similar to Marth's Up Smash. On the subject of Marth, I think Zelda could do with a tipper for these rapier attacks. Careful positioning is one of the core features of Zelda's moveset so rewarding better Smash attack reads plays into that.
Her up and side smashes were really just giving her more range on her current smashes, but her down smash has changed completely. She now uses the Triforce Mine from Twilight Princess. She stabs her sword into the ground creating a small triangle that explodes if anyone steps on or slightly over it. After a set amount of time it will also explode automatically. It this sounds strange for a smash attack, it's not actually the first time we've had something like this. Snake had a mine down smash in Brawl. Overall this combined with her down and side specials should give Zelda huge stage control.
So that's it for her Rapier, but what about her Light Arrows, the more important of the two? Well those are also part of her Smash Attacks, as Zelda now has a gimmick inspired by her appearance in Hyrule Warriors. When ever Zelda successfully connects with a Smash attack (on either an enemy or a stage feature like a crate or something) she will get an Orb of Light beside her portrait. When she has three orbs the next Smash attack she will use will use her Light Arrows instead of her rapier. These Light Arrow attacks will be a lot more powerful than her rapier attacks with better range. They'll be pretty powerful tools, but, much like Mac's KO Punch, the enemy will know they're coming and will be ready for them. So timing their use wisely will be the crux of her gameplay. The bow she uses will be the one from Breath of the Wild, as it fits a bit better being pulled out of nowhere in Smash given it's small size.
Her forward Smash is a simple light arrow show in front of her, manifesting in an attack much like Mii Gunner's Side Smash.
For her Up Smash she'll fire the light arrow directly above her making for an attack much like Palutena's Up Smash.
Like this animation only she's using her bow.
For her Down Smash she just creates a larger mine by shooting the ground with her light arrow.
So with a whole new array of Smash Attacks Zelda should be more powerful than ever. However, we also have her Specials to consider. And there have been some minor and one major change. Though, before that, one note on her throw. Her throws are all fine, they feel nice and powerful, I would just slightly change her up throw. She now raises her arms like she does when opening doors in Ganon's Castle in Ocarina of Time.
Again, no specific gif, but I'm sure you know the scene.
Now on to her specials. The first I want to talk about is Din's Fire. Man oh man what a frustrating attack. It's so fun to use, but it's kind of bad. I don't think it should be taken out entirely, as, per what I said, it is really fun to use, but it needs to be made better. It either needs a lot more power so that it can more reliably kill enemies trying to recover, or, preferably, you need to have a lot more control over it as an attack so you can slow it down or speed it up or move it backwards to get around enemy attacks. One solution is to make it bigger, which is what I've done. This gives it more coverage which should be better for hitting enemies, as you can detonate it early or late and its increased range changes when the enemy would need to shield. It becomes a more predictive attack to defend against and thus more dangerous to be at extreme ranges from Zelda. I've also changed it from a fire attack to a light attack and renamed it Ball of Light.
On playing some more Zelda and seeing how useful Nayru's Love is in the air, I've went back on this decision. I do still like the idea of using the attack from Ocarina of Time, but it's probably best left to custom specials.
Next is Nayru's Love, and, this might actually be the most significant change. I've moved it to her Shield. When shielding Zelda will automatically use Nayru's Love, meaning shielding with Zelda deals damage. This part of the attack still reflects projectiles, but after the attack is done she maintains Nayru's Love as her regular shield, making it resemble more it's origin in Ocarina of Time. This also makes Zelda's shield more like Yoshi's shield which is a bit unique. Due to this extra attacking and reflection mechanic on her shield, Zelda's shield will be easier to break than most of the cast, but I think an autoattack when shielding will make that worth it.
But now that Nayru's Love is on her shield, she's open to have another special.
Zelda's new neutral special is Light Force, based on her attack used to stun Ganon at the end of Ocarina of Time. How it plays out in effect is very similar to Robin's Thoron, only without the lower levels. Zelda charges up a massive ammount of energy and then shoots a stram of light traveling a great distance vertically in front of her. I think this will play well into her moveset as I feel I need a long rang oomph when playing Zelda that she doesn't have. She only has Din's Fire which is only good at securing kills against recovering enemies. This would give Zelda the power she needs to be a threat from a distance, improving her neutral game considerably.
I have however, changed Nayru's Love name and visuals to Light Force, from the Minish Cap. The attack is pretty much identical but now as a light appearance instead of a blue diamond.
Next is Farore's Wind. This is the thing that turned me off Zelda in SSB4. Namely one really frustrating change they made wherein if you teleport into the ground with Zelda, instead of reappearing at the spot on the ground you aim for, she'll bounce left or right and reappear somewhere else. This caused many a suicide for me as I'd try to reappear by the ledge only to bounce off into the abyss. I really like teleporting mind games in Brawl and I feel this subtle but critical changed ruined the move a lot (on the other hand they gave it a lot more power which is nice). Like Din's Fire and Nayru's Love, this attack can also get the aesthetic make over and be changed to a light based teleport we see Zelda perform in one of her games, though right now I have no specific animation in mind.
The last thing to talk about is her Final Smash. Which is a bit ridiculous. Like, everyone agrees it is out and out the best Final Smash in the game, right? It's really easy to hit enemies with, deals a tonne of damage and auto kills at above 100% which isn't hard to do when it does about 40%+. So it needs a bit of a nerf, but I still want it to be really good. So I have an idea inspired by Budokai Tenkaichi's Devilmite Beam. Zelda's Final Smash has been renaed from Triforce of Wisdom to Seal Evil and now how much damage it does is variable based on how evil the opponent is. So for Ganondorf it will do massive damage, but against someone like Sora it'll deal consdierably less damage. It'll still be a great final smash as it's still easy to hit with and auto KO's, but won't be nearly as devestating to half the cast. Plus, it'd just be fun to see which characters are ranked as more or less evil than others from the Smash roster.
And that's it from Zelda. Tell me what you think and if you have any ideas to incorporate elements of Zelda's scant few abilities from her own games...I guess I should mention I took absolutely nothing from Wand of Gamelon and Zelda's Adventure, her first actual playable appearances, but I don't think Nintendo will ever seriously acknowledge those games exist.
https://smashboards.com/threads/redesinging-ganondorf-but-keeping-him-the-same.513191/
https://smashboards.com/threads/new-melee-moves-for-samus.515562/
https://smashboards.com/threads/redesigning-link-but-keeping-him-the-same.518191/
https://smashboards.com/threads/redeisgning-kirby-but-keeping-him-the-same.521634/
https://smashboards.com/threads/redesigning-zelda-but-keeping-her-the-same.521781/
https://smashboards.com/threads/redesigning-ike-but-keeping-him-the-same.522334/
I've tackled Link and Ganondorf, it's time to complete the Triforce by talking about Zelda. Unlike Kirby, Samus and Link I actually used to play Zelda, back in the Brawl days. But one particular change in SSB4 really turned me off her. More on that below.
First off, it just needs to be said, Zelda's representation in Smash is really bad. Like worse than Ganondorf. Probably the worst represented character on the roster in terms of "Number of games vs number of moves directly inspired by games". Because she's appeared in over a dozen games and has...nothing in Smash. Only Phantom and her Final Smash and even then she's never quite used them that way. This is the fault of Melee where Zelda's combat was very limited, but even back then there was actually some stuff they could have pulled from that they didn't. It was all generic magical attacks...but honestly those attacks are fine. They look good on her and they work well. So I'll start out by saying I'm happy with her jab, tilts and aerials. Her dash attack looks a bit clunky but I've nothing better to replace it with. The two major things Zelda needs from her series but doesn't have are 1)Her rapier and more importaly 2) Her light arrows. And to give them to her, we're going with the Ganondorf method and replacing her Smash attacks.
Her side smash currently is a palm thrust with multiple connecting strikes. The same idea remains, only now it's a rapid thrust with her rapier.
Her Up Smash is an upward thrust based on the position she puts her rapier in during the Twilight Princess boss fight. This is quite similar to Marth's Up Smash. On the subject of Marth, I think Zelda could do with a tipper for these rapier attacks. Careful positioning is one of the core features of Zelda's moveset so rewarding better Smash attack reads plays into that.
Her up and side smashes were really just giving her more range on her current smashes, but her down smash has changed completely. She now uses the Triforce Mine from Twilight Princess. She stabs her sword into the ground creating a small triangle that explodes if anyone steps on or slightly over it. After a set amount of time it will also explode automatically. It this sounds strange for a smash attack, it's not actually the first time we've had something like this. Snake had a mine down smash in Brawl. Overall this combined with her down and side specials should give Zelda huge stage control.
So that's it for her Rapier, but what about her Light Arrows, the more important of the two? Well those are also part of her Smash Attacks, as Zelda now has a gimmick inspired by her appearance in Hyrule Warriors. When ever Zelda successfully connects with a Smash attack (on either an enemy or a stage feature like a crate or something) she will get an Orb of Light beside her portrait. When she has three orbs the next Smash attack she will use will use her Light Arrows instead of her rapier. These Light Arrow attacks will be a lot more powerful than her rapier attacks with better range. They'll be pretty powerful tools, but, much like Mac's KO Punch, the enemy will know they're coming and will be ready for them. So timing their use wisely will be the crux of her gameplay. The bow she uses will be the one from Breath of the Wild, as it fits a bit better being pulled out of nowhere in Smash given it's small size.
Her forward Smash is a simple light arrow show in front of her, manifesting in an attack much like Mii Gunner's Side Smash.
For her Up Smash she'll fire the light arrow directly above her making for an attack much like Palutena's Up Smash.
Like this animation only she's using her bow.
For her Down Smash she just creates a larger mine by shooting the ground with her light arrow.
So with a whole new array of Smash Attacks Zelda should be more powerful than ever. However, we also have her Specials to consider. And there have been some minor and one major change. Though, before that, one note on her throw. Her throws are all fine, they feel nice and powerful, I would just slightly change her up throw. She now raises her arms like she does when opening doors in Ganon's Castle in Ocarina of Time.
Again, no specific gif, but I'm sure you know the scene.
Now on to her specials. The first I want to talk about is Din's Fire. Man oh man what a frustrating attack. It's so fun to use, but it's kind of bad. I don't think it should be taken out entirely, as, per what I said, it is really fun to use, but it needs to be made better. It either needs a lot more power so that it can more reliably kill enemies trying to recover, or, preferably, you need to have a lot more control over it as an attack so you can slow it down or speed it up or move it backwards to get around enemy attacks. One solution is to make it bigger, which is what I've done. This gives it more coverage which should be better for hitting enemies, as you can detonate it early or late and its increased range changes when the enemy would need to shield. It becomes a more predictive attack to defend against and thus more dangerous to be at extreme ranges from Zelda. I've also changed it from a fire attack to a light attack and renamed it Ball of Light.
On playing some more Zelda and seeing how useful Nayru's Love is in the air, I've went back on this decision. I do still like the idea of using the attack from Ocarina of Time, but it's probably best left to custom specials.
But now that Nayru's Love is on her shield, she's open to have another special.
I have however, changed Nayru's Love name and visuals to Light Force, from the Minish Cap. The attack is pretty much identical but now as a light appearance instead of a blue diamond.
Next is Farore's Wind. This is the thing that turned me off Zelda in SSB4. Namely one really frustrating change they made wherein if you teleport into the ground with Zelda, instead of reappearing at the spot on the ground you aim for, she'll bounce left or right and reappear somewhere else. This caused many a suicide for me as I'd try to reappear by the ledge only to bounce off into the abyss. I really like teleporting mind games in Brawl and I feel this subtle but critical changed ruined the move a lot (on the other hand they gave it a lot more power which is nice). Like Din's Fire and Nayru's Love, this attack can also get the aesthetic make over and be changed to a light based teleport we see Zelda perform in one of her games, though right now I have no specific animation in mind.
The last thing to talk about is her Final Smash. Which is a bit ridiculous. Like, everyone agrees it is out and out the best Final Smash in the game, right? It's really easy to hit enemies with, deals a tonne of damage and auto kills at above 100% which isn't hard to do when it does about 40%+. So it needs a bit of a nerf, but I still want it to be really good. So I have an idea inspired by Budokai Tenkaichi's Devilmite Beam. Zelda's Final Smash has been renaed from Triforce of Wisdom to Seal Evil and now how much damage it does is variable based on how evil the opponent is. So for Ganondorf it will do massive damage, but against someone like Sora it'll deal consdierably less damage. It'll still be a great final smash as it's still easy to hit with and auto KO's, but won't be nearly as devestating to half the cast. Plus, it'd just be fun to see which characters are ranked as more or less evil than others from the Smash roster.
And that's it from Zelda. Tell me what you think and if you have any ideas to incorporate elements of Zelda's scant few abilities from her own games...I guess I should mention I took absolutely nothing from Wand of Gamelon and Zelda's Adventure, her first actual playable appearances, but I don't think Nintendo will ever seriously acknowledge those games exist.
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