Official (Read OP) DeDeDe Tour! Community MU Analysis

[shrooby]

So let's get this show back on the road shall we?

It's time for Rosaluma Rosalinda Rosalina & Chiko Luma!

Some Important Announcements Please Read

Discussion of each character are going to be cut two days from what I did originally. Instead of a full week, we're only gonna do five days.
Also, and this is really important, I'll be changing the ratings a bit to match how it worked in the Brawl days.
Right now it uses 50:50, 60:40 and 70:30, but, like I said, I'm going to change it to how the Brawl match-up project had their ratios set up. Or at least the ratio equivalents of their point system...

50:50
55:45
65:35
70:30

It's the same logic and interpretation as before (50:50 being even, 55:45 being slight advantage, 65:35 being major advantage, 70:30 being basically unwinnable), but with the numbers changed slightly to better reflect the past.
If there's any confusions about this, please don't hesitate to ask. I know it's a bit weird to change how we're rating in the middle.

Also, after we discuss Sonic, we'll be looking at Diddy again.

 

[SalsaSavant]

We're a Luma killer. That's the most important thing to remember here.
I'm gonna be super lazy and just copy/paste what I wrote in the Rosalina version of this thread. I wrote it pre-nerf, but it still applies. We have sllllightly more Luma kill options now, but it doesn't make a big difference.

D3 main here.

This is an interesting matchup, because you have a pretty clear advantage with Luma, but we clobba Luma pretty easily.

Star Bits can reflect Gorodos, but I believe you otherwise have no reliable way to reflect them...but you have your down-b, which cancel it out, so Gorodo's aren't that big of a frustration to you, but you have to devote time to getting rid of them. This is one of the rare cases where our Dash Attack is useful, because it can force Luma offstage pretty easily if we have Rosalina distracted with a Gordo/forced to shield. Our Smashes all more or less clobba Luma too.

Your Dair is really, really annoying. We like to chase into the air with Uair, but it can counter that at mid percents. We'll be forced to go for a safer but less powerful Nair....and at higher percents, not even that.

Once Luma is taken care of, we can use more or less standard D3 strategy, adjusting for your Dair and being a bit less Gordo dependent. Ftilts, Dtilts, Jab comboing into grabs, some aerial mixups, etc. I won't go into all of it here, but Soul Train has a good video I think you should check out if you want to know everything D3 can do.

Basically, when you have Luma, you're advantaged, but we get rid of Luma easily.
When you don't have Luma, you have some ways to handle us, but we can generally use standard D3 strats to handle you.

I'm saying 40:60. Rosalina needs to keep Luma to be effective here. Play conservatively, protect Luma, and respect D3's power and Luma clobbaing skills, but remember he needs to commit to all of his Smashes and take advantage of that. Your Dair and Gravitational Field hamper him somewhat, forcing him to take safer routes to attacking, though even his safer strats can still be effective against you.

 

[manueluno]

I agree with Salsa. Slight advantage 55:45 per the new rating system. 60:40 old rating system.

 

[shrooby]

@ SalsaSavant I assume you're not taking customs into account?
This is a match-up where I think we should discuss the custom options. 'Cause more than some others they affect this match up a lot.

If we can get into our comfortable space, we're goochy. That's a fairly manageable task when Rosie doesn't have a good projectile, but customs make her walling capabilities that much more potent with shooting star bit. Especially against us.
If we get rid of Luma then it's the same story, but actually getting to Luma can be very though once Rosalinda has an actual projectile.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

One of Dedede's best matchups in my opinion. We can easily swipe Luma in one or two hits. Without Luma, Rosie cannot compete with our ground game, as we can out-space her pretty well. The only threat she poses without Luma is her air-game. While we can compete with it, she is able to outrange us. With Luma, the match is trickier for D3. Luma makes it near impossible to approach, and gordos are hard to use without having them pelted right back at us (or evaporated entirely). With Luma on the field, it's honestly pretty tough to get a flipper in the door.

Luckily, it's easy to kill Luma, like I said. Not to mention, it's easy to kill Rosie since she's big and light.

Closing thoughts: Be very careful with gordos when Luma is around. Your first priority is to kill Luma. When it is gone, then things get easier. It's in our favor overall, but don't get comfortable.

55:45, in favor of the

(unfortunately, I know nothing of Rosaluma's customs so I can't do much here...)

 

[MezzoMe]

Rosalina main here, and let me put two things straight:

• "KOing Luma with one hit" is not something match-up specific and most important of all
• It's not something that alters a match-up ratio, not as much as "how many options and in how many cases is possible to damage and K.O. Luma", in fact tier placement is determined by the options one character has in different situations.

Now I don't have enough match-up experience myself but in the Rosalina Boards it is considered barely advantageous (51:49, rounded 50:50), in few words

• Rosalina can juggle Dedede 25h/24
• The only way to throw Godros back at D3 is with Star Bits, but is not the only one that repels it
• Rosalina's attacks are faster than Dedede by a long shot, with and without Luma, in fact her DTilt outspeeds all of his attacks(and has not that low of a range) and that is before starting with Luma and his several safe long ranged two frames attacks
• Dedede has longer range and longer disjoint than Rosalina, though several of his longest ranged attacks can be shielded on reaction
• As a result of the previous two bullets, Rosalina's first aim is to abuse of her superior mobility to reach the mid range, where she can just mash buttons, and Dedede has to respect every single of them
• If Rosalina succeeds to hit Dedede at low percentages with her Nair, press shield or the attack will throw dedede at the ground and will be susceptible to a second Nair to jab lock him followed by a FSmash for an early edgeguarding situations
• As far as I am aware, Dedede is susceptible to ledge pressure, but I'm not entirely sure
• If Rosalina throws a Nair in neutral, the hitbox alteration will beat his FTilt and outspeed most of his attacks,the attack is not realistically punishable, at best you can hope she shields next and hit Luma with a pivot FTilt(pivot because you used dash backward to escape) wich I am pretty positive it's not guaranteed

That said, there is one thing that is hardly ever mentioned when talking about Rosalina match-ups yet very important, it's that Dedede needs three things to keep Rosalina from stalling when Luma dies

1. Platform pressure
2. Gimp abilities against her
3. A way to not being spaced by her mobility
4. A way to avoid her from using Launch Star in order to go to the other side of the stage whenever he gets close

I'm doubtful about the first since only Nair and Uair are not shieldable on reaction, but I don't know it for sure about any of them.
Edit: turns out that Star Buts outspace FTilt and that the very first hitbox of Uair sends a Gordo angled up back to him in a 45° angle.

 

[Jdawg26]

Imo, 45:55 in favor of Rosa.

Yes we can kill Luma in one hit even on Rosa's shield, however she still has plenty of tools on us that make it pretty hard in certain situations; such as her uair. Since 3 of the legal stages have absurdly low ceilings that can lead to an early stock (Delfino, Halberd, Town & City), you'll eventually have to fight on her terms at least once during a set. Rosa also has safer kill options than D3 does, although we can kill earlier... especially with rage.

Don't get me wrong, this matchup is pretty close to even. I just think she has the luxury of playing a safer overall game than we do.

General tips:
- If Rosa is shielding with her back facing the ledge, we can kill Luma with any of our tilts or smashes. Dsmash and Fsmash will kill close to center stage on some stages.
- You never want to be directly above or below Rosa in any instance. We simply can't challenge her safely. Best case scenario: we trade a usmash with her dair, however since her halos on her uair and dair get some disjointed they'll probably just beat out most options.
- Recovering against Rosa can actually be a bit of a challenge because her dair is so active that we can be knocked out of our up-b before the armor even starts. Try to recover super low; and once they start adapting to that, recover a bit higher so you can armor through the hit.
- Personally, I prefer to kill Luma at lower percents even if I know I'll eat a punish for it. As long as Luma's dead you aren't in any danger of dying until %150+. Use your discretion on that one though.
-We can use Luma to extend the duration of our hitboxes, so catching her with dash attack is a little bit easier if you time it too early.
-Be aware of Rosa's weight and how much rage you have, as she's the 5th lightest character in the game now iirc. Last weekend I clutched out a set against a really good Rosalina player but using Luma to extend the hitbox of an upsmash on the ledge. Killed about about 80%
- Her fair won't reflect gordos until the final hit, so if she's not expecting them it's actually okay to use them in neutral at times. Uair and Dair will reflect them though, provided Luma is alive to give frontal coverage.

All in all this matchup isn't too bad. Just don't get juggled or you'll lose.

 

[MezzoMe]

@ Jdawg26 I'm confused , Fair does or not reflect gordos?
Also Rosalina is indeed the 5th lightest character in the game.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Any attack that does 1% damage at base will not reflect Gordos. In the case of multihit moves that culminate with a finishing-type blow, like Rosa's nair and fair, each hit before the completion of the attack (that does 1%) will not trade with Gordos. The Gordos will beat it clean.

This obviously doesn't account for the Luma's coverage, just Rosalina by herself.

Smooth Criminal

 

[MezzoMe]

But Rosalina's Nair isn't a multi-hit move and never deals 1%

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Well, typo.

Either way the rest of the post stands.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Jdawg26]

I stand corrected on nair, the point on fair still stands though. I'll edit my post to reflect that.

 

[axelalexzander]

I don't know a lot about playing Rosa well and my only real experience with Rosa mains is online so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I've always felt D3 is solidly ahead when luma is gone. With luma active, D3 can't approach and Rosa definitely has the advantage since she can annoy D3 with luma and take advantage of his slowness. Rosa dies pretty early and can be juggled well. But vice versa, Rosa can juggle D3.

So overall D3 can't really approach with luma active, but Rosa is weak with luma gone. Luma has better speed but D3 has a massive weight advantage and has more power. And Rosa is huge for such a light character and can't reflect gordos well.

D3 can kill luma pretty easily but luma comes back so fast. Rosa can just run away and camp until it respawns.

I've always felt this matchup is pretty even when I play it online, but I don't know any Rosa mains in person. The last tourney I went to there was one but I didn't get a chance to play him.

I'm going to say 50:50.

 

[atomicblast360]

Would you guys say the match up gets a lot worse for D3 with customs? Especially with the warping Luma and starbits that go across the stage. Though I think customs such as taste test help a bit.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I want to bring up that I generally prefer to nullify Gordos with Gravitational Pull rather than trying to hit them back at Dedede. Not sure what implications that would have for your Gordo game and followups thereof.

The key for Rosalina in this matchup is staying in Dedede's face, I think. His hammer has more disjoint than her galaxies so he can put up a good wall if he presses a button in time, but her buttons are generally faster. (Dedede's fastest ground move is what, F6? Luma has some F2 and F3 moves going on, while Rosalina's dtilt is F5 and jab is F6.)

With customs, Rosalina gets a projectile of her own plus near instant long range punishes with Luma Warp. I'd keep Gravitational Pull to deal with Gordos, but that's me. Dedede gets Dedede Storm (or whatever your not-grab neutral special is called) which I hear murderfaces Luma but I don't know the details. Is Bouncing Gordo something we need to worry about?

Of course, as a heavyweight Dedede needs a giant asterisk next to all of his matchups saying "don't **** up or you're dead anyway."

 

[SalsaSavant]

Is Bouncing Gordo something we need to worry about?

D3's generally won't bring it to Rosalina matches, unless maybe it's a Rosalina who love their zoning and is good at it. It's basically an anti-zoning tool.

If one does bring it, a good Gravitational Pull should be more than enough. Just don't do it when you're in D3's range.

 

[KingJames]

Hey can some give me advice on how to fight olimar and fox

 

[shrooby]

Hey can some give me advice on how to fight olimar and fox

Please read the OP. This is not a general match-up discussion thread. Right now in this thread were are discussing Rosalina and only Rosalina.
Okay, Rosalina AND Luma...

Bring questions regarding match-ups which aren't being discussed at the moment to this thread:

http://smashboards.com/threads/general-match-up-discussion-thread.388795/

 

[Wonderf]

Well, personally I think the match-up is 45:55 and 35:65 if customs are used.
It's really hard to get to Rosalina because of her fast start-up moves and range and it is hard to hit her with your gordo because of gravitational pull and Luma being the meat shield it is. On that point though,D3 has an easier time to K.O. Luma than other characters and D3 can make good use of Luma's absent. D3's can also K.O. Rosalina early because of her being the 5th lightest character of the cast. Also it's a bit to harder to set up ledge traps because of Luma being around. If customs are used, Rosalina's star bit projectile is very annoying and makes life much harder for D3, but you can still work around it. For this match-up, I usually just try to space and try to punish any of Rosalina's mistakes.

 

[shrooby]

We're done with the Cosmic Queen & Chiko.
Our final rating is 50:50. Seems a bit split on whether it was slightly in Rosie's favor or slightly in Dedede's favor, so I'd say this is a fair compromise.
Both of us have good options we should respect, and we're both good at exploiting some of the others weakness.
imo it's slightly in Rosie's favor, but still is pretty close. Definitely doable.
I'd say one thing we should worry about that wasn't really discussed in detail is what we should do against a Rosalina who's waiting out the Luma respawn timer. Another time perhaps.


Anyway, onto Zero Suit Samus.

uuuugh, that name sends shivers down my spine as a Dedede player.
One of my least favorite match ups
But that just gives us more reason to discuss.
So... discuss!

 

[axelalexzander]

Oh no, not ZSS. This is a horrible matchup for Dedede. You could even argue it's worse than Sonic. It's my most hated matchup for sure.

Here's my 2 cents -

Her speed aside, the main reason I feel it's such a bad matchup is ZSS's boost jump is absolutely devistating to Dedede. He is absolutely destroyed by her Dthrow to Boost Jump combo, which KOs Dedede very early. I've tested it and on final destination if Dedede is grabbed while at 86% or above the Dthrow to Boost jump combo can kill. And it's very hard if not impossible to DI out of with Dedede's giant hitbox if the ZSS player doesn't make a mistake. On stages with low ceilings it kills stupidly early.

And not just boost jump, Dedede is combo food once he's in the air. ZSS can juggle like mad.

So Dedede's weight advantage is completely nullified in this matchup. Dedede does not live to high percents at all here.

The only thing Dedede really has going here is the ability to punish some of ZSS's ending lag, which on some moves is substantial. Especially her grab and gun. Hope ZSS leaves some openings.

Gordo's in neutral aren't an option since ZSS has some good reflect options. Dedede has to make excellent reads to have a shot. And hope ZSS makes mistakes he can capitalize on. Oh and if you must play ZSS as Dedede, go with a stage with a high ceiling to help you live longer against her boost jump.

I've played some really good ZSS players. I feel like against good ZSS players who know how to exploit Dedede this matchup is practically unwinnable.

70:30 with advantage to ZSS.

 

[SalsaSavant]

Okay, this one is tough.

That boost jump is our problem. One of our greatest strengths is our survivability, but it's such a good kill move that it almost completely nullifies it. We're easily caught (especially with that gun) and combo'd, and it seems that the Boost Jump is ZSS's go-to combo ender. To top it off, ZSS has no weakness that D3 easily exploits to make it more balanced. Like axel said, she has a bit of lag, but good ZSS's will know how to be safe with their more laggy moves, making our openings limited. Oh, and she's great at deflecting Gordo's in ways we can't easily re-deflect them.

Like just about any other bad matchups, our Ftilt is the closest thing to a saving grace we have. It lets us at least rival her Plasma Whip range and punish her if she gets overly in our face. The thing is, this doesn't help us win-it just makes the loss slower. We can stall and kind of sort of weakly punish some major mistakes, but that isn't going to help much in the long term.

If you want to win...well, I'd almost say use someone else. But if you're determined to use D3, I'd almost say throw strategy out and troll, annoy them with your crouches, the Dededance, whatever. At least then there's a chance they'll make mistakes out of annoyance. Honestly, this is the closest thing to a winning strategy we have.
But if you want to fight seriously...stay out of range, throw a few safe Gordo's, and Ftilt. A lot of Ftilt. Grab if you can for the usual grab shenanigans, but don't expect to grab too often. You likely won't win against a ZSS of similar skill, but it doesn't throw the possibility to victory completely out the window.

I second the 30:70
This and are our worst matchups.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I pretty much agree with the 7:3 assessment of ZSS. Only advice I can give to make this MU a little more bearable is stay close to the ground spacing meaty normals like nair/bair/ftilt to whiff punish, and try to powershield her little stun gun (projectile or otherwise). Don't be afraid to sit in shield for a little while; thankfully, her grab is kinda telegraphed and on the slower side, so punishing it isn't too difficult. Just be ready for a lot of pressure, though.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Wonderf]

vs?
30 : 70
Play smart...

EDIT: Explanation: There is not much you can do against Z.S.S., being the speedy character she is.
I find you just have to play a bit more passively, mix up how you play to keep the Z.S.S. guessing what you're going pull out next and space so you don't get combo because D3 is a pretty big guy and can gets combo easily.
Good luck in this match-up!

 

[shrooby]

vs?
30 : 70
Play smart...G.G Dedede

I know it's kinda obvious that the match-up isn't...in our favor, to put it lightly, but please don't just give a rating and be done.
The rating really isn't that important. The most important thing is to discuss!
That said, ratings are still nice to have, but yeah.~

 

[Jdawg26]

Yeah, this matchup is atrocious. I started to write about it but I got depressed, so I made a little flowchart instead:

That being said, here's a few little tidbits that will hopefully help you with this dumb matchup...
-If you block the kick portion of her down b, she can't act again until after she touches the ground. She can still change her landing path however. Read it and punish accordingly.
- DI/VECTOR THE FINAL HIT OF HER UP-B DOWN AND TOWARDS THE STAGE IF SHE DOES IT AFTER AN UP AIR. IT WILL PROBABLY TAKE YOU TO THE FARTHEST DIAGONAL BLAST ZONE. You have to do both as the move combines vertical and horizontal knockback.
- I've already mentioned how bad gordos are in the neutral game against most characters, but for some reason you still insist on using them for the love of all that is good.... don't use them in this matchup. ZSS just has far too many tools to knock them back in an instant.
-Her jab comes out in one frame. Respect it and shield the full combo unless you know she's going to stagger the timings. Grab when appropriate.
-If you try to spotdodge her grab she'll sometimes still grab you if you mistime it. This is due to D3's frame being extremely wide and the grab box still being in our hurtbox after the I frames end.

I could go on for a while about this matchup. It sucks.

30:70 in favor of ZSS.

 

[manueluno]

I must have never fought a decent ZSS in my life because my thought about this match is... is not too bad.

She is fast, but not Cap Falcon fast. Has limited kill moves in UpB, side B and fsmash. However, a lot of moves can be a set up for UpB.

Some tips:

I sometimes jab the stun shot. It is not that difficult since its speed is really slow. Actually, is so slow that I have been able to pull off that thing that happens with the gordo when you throw it, it immediatly hits a projectile and your hammer again and it goes forward really fast.

Another tip involving Gordos. Up tilted and down tilted jump over the stun shot (I recommend the down tilted one). This stops her stun shot, grab, pummel, throw and aerial combo.

Always be ready to shield the side B. Always challange her in the air (unless above). As with other characters with her dair, always bait it and be ready to uair.

I don't think ZSS is very good at approaching, she usually covers this with the stun shot. So, discouraging her from using it takes you a long way towards winning the match.

Rate 45: 55 .

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Real quick: Jabbing the projectile isn't all that good. Generally speaking, you'll be in a state of recovery as you clank the projectile and at a disadvantage (how many frames, I dunno). ZSS has more than enough time to close the gap and mix you up. You're better off powershielding it and then acting out of that.

Smooth Criminal

 

[David Viran]

I must have never fought a decent ZSS in my life because my thought about this match is... is not too bad.

She is fast, but not Cap Falcon fast. Has limited kill moves in UpB, side B and fsmash. However, a lot of moves can be a set up for UpB.

Some tips:

I sometimes jab the stun shot. It is not that difficult since its speed is really slow. Actually, is so slow that I have been able to pull off that thing that happens with the gordo when you throw it, it immediatly hits a projectile and your hammer again and it goes forward really fast.

Another tip involving Gordos. Up tilted and down tilted jump over the stun shot (I recommend the down tilted one). This stops her stun shot, grab, pummel, throw and aerial combo.

Always be ready to shield the side B. Always challange her in the air (unless above). As with other characters with her dair, always bait it and be ready to uair.

I don't think ZSS is very good at approaching, she usually covers this with the stun shot. So, discouraging her from using it takes you a long way towards winning the match.

Rate 45: 55 .

This ain't brawl side b is far from a kill move. Honestly I'm surprised you are even mentioning side b because nobody uses it. You forgot to mention her most reliable kill move in Bair. Flip kick is actually a pretty good kill move.

Why do people think that paralyzer is her only approach option it's not nair is her best approach.

 

[Jdawg26]

Since DDD is so tall, Zair is another really annoying approach option to deal with. It comes out pretty quickly and auto-cancels to boot.

 

[manueluno]

This ain't brawl side b is far from a kill move. Honestly I'm surprised you are even mentioning side b because nobody uses it. You forgot to mention her most reliable kill move in Bair. Flip kick is actually a pretty good kill move.

Why do people think that paralyzer is her only approach option it's not nair is her best approach.

I thought her flip kick was her side B. I have never really played as ZSS. I have only played brawl a couple of times by the way.

@ Smooth Criminal I think the jab recovers fairly quick. But probably power shielding is better, jab is just another option.

Also, the ZSS I have played do not use zair much.

 

[David Viran]

PS is always better. Also falcon only has faster sprint speed than ZSS. She has faster walk and air speed.

 

[shrooby]

I thought her flip kick was her side B. I have never really played as ZSS. I have only played brawl a couple of times by the way.

@ Smooth Criminal I think the jab recovers fairly quick. But probably power shielding is better, jab is just another option.

Also, the ZSS I have played do not use zair much.

Jab actually recovers pretty slowly. Zamus could punish it.

PS or stay out of it's range are the options, basically.

 

[manueluno]

Just this weekend I fought a ZSS very close to my level, at least it seemed so, between 10 or 15 matches. I won a little less than half of those.

I did lost to an Up B twice (first couple of matches), but most of the time I was able to DI and airdodge the kick. And throughout the match it did not seem like it was one sided. Sure, under constant pressure, but that is always the case against speedy characters while playing as King Dedede.

I maintain that ZSS can be challanged in the air with an advantage to the King, and also have to avoid being directly above her, wether she is airborne or grounded.

Baiting the upsmash, and doing a FF bair works great, btw.

 

[shrooby]

Kinda wish more could've been talked about, but I guess it's understandable since it's pretty obviously not a good match-up.
Ah well. No harm done. Not like we won't be going through the match-ups again.~
70:30


Next is the Blue Blur, Mr. "Gotta Go Fast," the chili dog connoisseur, Sonic the Hedgehog!
"You're too slow" basically sums this match-up up for us lol.
Thought to be another one of our worst match-ups by some, but let's still talk about this dude.

Discuss!

 

[SalsaSavant]

You know the whole "We wait patiently and punish" thing we do?

It's not happening. I really don't know how in-depth I can go. He goes fast, leaves us no openings, punishes everything we do, and leaves us no chance to punish. I really can' t think of too much else to say, but I'll try.

Uh...I believe our Ftilt is our best option here. Noticing a pattern? We might be able to weakly punish an overeager Sonic that way, and maybe ones that are in a bad range for him for 1/10th of a second.

I've had some minor success with some air to ground mixups, but I believe that it was mainly my opponent and not Sonic himself. Still, fastfall some Nairs, and maybe throw in some surprise mixups when the opponent is conditioned to expect that. Might get you something.

Edit:
After some consideration, I've changed my mind. You see, we do have one thing going. We're hard to kill. It's not much, but it is something, because Sonic doesn't have a ton of good kill moves. We'll survive long, and our minor damage will rack up. It's something.



So, revised score
65:35
I'll feel better once we've put these depressing matchups behind us.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Anyway, 70:40

I think you tried to put 70:30?
---

Funny thing about how the matchup with Sonic progresses with player skill. Sonic is one of the easiest matchups when you're playing against someone who isn't as good, but when they're your skill level or higher.. oh boy.
Anyway, Sonic is definitely another one of Dedesy's saddening matchups. How degrading. Nonetheless, it's not impossible. I think this matchup is hard because we as Dedede players cannot play in the way we're used to. While usually we play the patience game, Sonic doesn't allow us to do that. Now, maybe this is because I haven't played TOO many good Sonics, but I think one of our better chances in this matchup is to challenge Sonic's moves. One thing I've learned is that Dedede generally has higher priority on his moves than Sonic does. Also, with the Blue Blur being as predictable as he is, if we combine our slight priority and a ****-ton of good timing and focus, we can beat out just about all his specials and his aerials, although I wouldn't ever try to challenge his Up-Air.
D-Smashes, F-Tilts (as usual), jabbing, and grabbing I feel are some of our best options here. I'm hesitant to say to not rely on FFNairs or any kind of above assault as Sonic can defend himself very well against above attacks. Of course, a few here and there will probably work, but in this matchup, you want to make as few mistakes as possible.

I also think getting Sonic off-stage would do some good, since his recoveries are fairly easy to intercept with an aerial or a well-placed gordo. Speaking of gordos... Wouldn't use them much here. Plain and simple.

(Also... Side note... I really think we should start discussing which stages we would want to use in the MUs. Stages win matches.)
I think we should immediately ban Smashville in this MU, as Sonic can use the platform as a getaway car if he happens to flub up, and with the low ceiling, he can easily Up-air you into oblivion. I would also recommend banning mostly flat stages as well, like Halberd and FD. I think our best options here would be either Battlefield, Duck Hunt, and Delfino. (For 3DS, Brinstar, Prism, and Battlefield.) These stages aren't really in D3's favor (except for the mighty lovely Delfino), but I can't see them being too much in Sonic's favor either. I see them as limiting his crazy mobility a bit.

It's a crap matchup that requires the focus of a Shaolin monk, but I believe it is winnable.

65:35, in favor of

 

[kinje]

Based on how hard a time sonics give us just when it comes to patient punishes and zoning, I'm gonna say it's a 70:30 in sonic's favor.

In my experience, it's just rough. Don't challenge Sonic's moves unnecessarily. You never want to do that unless you read and out-space.
Honestly, just try and make the first stock/game last as long as possible so you can download your opponent, then go for soft reads as much as you can while being sure to DI and air-dodge everything your opponent hits you with in neutral correctly. When you're not getting reads, try to keep them away with disjointed attacks and try your best not to end up stuck in shield or above them with no jumps.
My best advice is to be aware of the fact that sonics like to recover low, and use our pretty good gimps and armored up-b to go low and steal stocks away without having to tack on too much damage.

But, yeah, stage-wise, we want Battlefield, Duck Hunt, maybe Town and City.

 

[SalsaSavant]

The first stages to come to mind were Duck Hunt and Delfino. Anything that hampers Sonic's movement, really.

 

[Interrobang!?]

For me in this match up, Neutral B is a useful option. I've not played many great Sonic's, and those that I have played have essentially spun right into my mouth. That and F-Tilt can make Sonic a little hesitant, which immediately makes things a little easier for the King.

I will say that Sonic's speed makes it tough to land a kill, but all things considered, I don't think that this match is as bad as some others. For me it's 60:40