Official (Read OP) DeDeDe Tour! Community MU Analysis

[shrooby]

Since this round kinda got stuck during all the pre-E3 hype and DLC, with people testing and researching and such, I'm gonna stack on two more days, just to make sure everyone who wants to add something has the chance to. (Given the infamy of this character, anyway, that's not completely ridiculous.)
We'll go back to normal after that, tho'

I also remembered Soul Train did a write-up on this a few months ago:

Wrote up a bit on the Luigi matchup topic that was posted earlier, but it's (rightly) locked now so I'm posting here.

D3 is at a slight disadvantage with a good Luigi - who has fast, lingering attacks to reflect Gordo, a great neutral projectile, and a great combo game. But you have much greater aerial mobility, better trap game, disjointed hitboxes, and your own great combo game to boot. If you can get him off/above-stage, you have a sudden massive advantage. Abuse it.

So stageguarding is key. Yes, stageguarding - when Luigi's falling down and airdodging a lot as they are wont to do, you need to be using Gordo to control the next few seconds of the match. Use a UGordo (up tilted Gordo) or DGordo to control space and limit his landing options. Then react to his landing decisions - he WILL be open as soon as he lands. Luigi should never have an easy time getting back to stage against D3 - NO ONE should, not with good Gordo traps.

Yep, Luigi is incredibly good at comboing people, but in his defense D3 actually is pretty good at escaping combos (with good DI) - so it becomes a reading tossup. You have five jumps; use them with unexpected DI to get out. Up and away is usually best, but sometimes DI-ing to end up OVER his head post-dthrow works well too. Mash that jump, D3 should never take 60% from one combo.

Practice your techs. In this match, missing them at close range is bad.
Bait his spinning DownB; it's very punishable.

Rangewise, Luigi has two strong threat zones against D3: fireball and Ftilt distance. Fireball is Luigi's neutral game tool, and Gordo is yours - get good at arcing jump Gordo/DGordos over Fireball range and onto Luigi/nearby to scare him. You need to be on top of your Gordo Volley game too - practice the reflecting.

Do NOT throw Gordos straight at him in Neutral (see below).

Threw together a quick ground threat range for Luigi. Should help visualize what I'm talking about. Stay in the green, get out of the red. Pink is the fireball range where you can safely shield/jump over without Luigi punishing.

Very winnable (edit: fixed images not uploading.)

How much would you say this still lines up with your current thoughts, Soul? (Since I know this is from quite awhile ago) Add or change anything?

 

[Soul Train]

Good question. ...I'm honestly split. And by that I mean split between getting bodied by Boss, and in turn bodying every Luigi I play that is not Boss. lulz

The only thing I would add to that old post is Luigi's grab/punish game - as it was nowhere near as developed then, and does tilt the matchup towards Luigi.

Overall, matchup knowledge is really key here: Luigi's slidey-ness on shield is really nice for D3. You have to know how to handle fireballs, how to DI, etc. Jdawg's post really captured all that well. He beats D3, but not overwhelmingly. We outrange, and our multiple jumps let us escape a lot of other trapping combos. But Luigi pressures better, punishes harder, and kills safer. IMO, the green dude is mildly overrated; people haven't adjusted yet to his punish timings or pressure-bait-grab playstyle. But it's definitely a matchup in favor of the taller mario bro.

60 : 40

 

[shrooby]

Luigi's done.~
Final rating 60:40

Now onto the other brother, Mmmmario!
Coincidentally I just got back from a weekly after having been kicked out of the bracket by this match up lol

Anyway...

Discuss!

 

[toadster101]

60:40

Not unwinnable, but Mario can combo Dedede into oblivion and punish his attacks with ease. You have to play extremely patiently or you will lose. Mario has bad reach, which Dedede can take advantage of. Slightly more bearable than the Luigi MU.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mario vs DDD is so boring, but it's pretty significantly in Mario's favor.

DDD has like no midrange game, which works perfectly for Mario. DDD can't really punish Mario for zoning with fireballs, which will usually beat Gordos as well as whiff punish most things DDD tries to commit to. DDD also is huge and a fastfaller, so he gets juggled a while by Mario's stuff. The main problem Mario has is killing, especially since DDD has multiple jumps to stay away from Mario's Smashes in most situations, meaning he'll likely survive to 180% if he plays really carefully. But DDD doesn't really have an easier time killing Mario for that matter given his stronger KO options are also not easy to set up on Mario who easily outmaneuvers DDD. All DDD can really bet on is random hits with Rage, for the most part when it comes to killing.

Mario can lose this matchup if he gets really impatient and eats big punishes unnecessarily, but I would agree it's about 6/4 Mario's favor in a most generous scenario for DDD.

 

[Xeze]

The matchup is in Mario's favor. Gordos can easily be reflected with Fireballs, DDD is easily comboed due to his big hurtbox and being a fastfaller and Mario's speed makes it hard to keep up. DDD can, however, land some nasty punishes with correct reads, he has decent range with his f-tilt and u-air is also annoying to deal with (and can kill).

Overall, 60:40

 

[T4ylor]

50:50
While Mario has his lengthy combos and Fireballs to play keep away, he isn't as effective as Luigi is in the match up. They rack up %, but that's just it. Unlike Mario, Luigi actually has kill confirms if you get Grabbed or hit by a Fireball at the wrong time. And that plays a big role in the match up, because if D3 isn't getting comboed, then he's stuffing out Mario with his disjoints.

Also, why do people feel the need to mention that such-and-such character has an easy time hitting back Gordos as if it means anything? They're absolutely terrible in neutral.

Edit: Your whole reasoning was "great buttons up close", but it's the getting close that can be a problem with Mario.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

50:50
While Mario has his lengthy combos and Fireballs to play keep away, he isn't as effective as Luigi is in the match up. They rack up %, but that's just it. Unlike Mario, Luigi actually has kill confirms if you get Grabbed or hit by a Fireball at the wrong time. And that plays a big role in the match up, because if D3 isn't getting comboed, then he's stuffing out Mario with his disjoints.

Also, why do people feel the need to mention that such-and-such character has an easy time hitting back Gordos as if it means anything? They're absolutely terrible in neutral.

Are you kidding? Mario has great buttons up close. That's more than enough to keep D3 honest, mobility aside (which is really what puts a damper in the MU).

And even outside of neutral, people can read the Gordos; if you compound stuff like low start-up moves that work well out of a disadvantaged state, it needs to be mentioned. They're a very volatile projectile/part of D3's gameplan.

60:40 in Mario's favor, for the reasons listed above.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Axel311]

The strengths D3 has here are his disjoints, he can keep mario away well and take advantage of mario's short range. But as others said D3 is major combo food and fireballs can force D3 to approach. Mario clearly wins neutral and D3 has to approach so the matchup I'd say is in Mario's favor for that reason. D3 does live forever here though. I always perfect shield the fireballs here and try and approach cautiously. Luckily, Mario can't use fireballs to bait us into getting grabbed like Luigi can. If Mario plays carefully and smart I do think his advantages outweigh the fits D3 can give him with disjoints. Fireball D3, force him to approach and look for openings where you can take advantage of D3's bad frame data.

Not unwinnable at all by D3 and definitely not as bad as Luigi, but I feel it's an uphill battle. I'm going to say -

55:45

 

[FullMoon]

So hey I just spent 5 minutes looking for this boards because it seemed to not be where it should in the alphabetical order until I realized that they included "King" as part of the name of the character.

In any case, the Greninja boards are looking for input for the Dedede MU.

Mainly hints as to how to fight him and how to not fight him. Any advice on how we should take this MU would be greatly appreciated: http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...dedede-6-22-6-29.369356/page-22#post-19494117

 

[shrooby]

Mario is done.

60:40

Well, kinda done.
'Cause now it's time for Mario with a degree!
Unlike Pit and Edge the Angel, their differences are enough to make them pretty different characters.
So let's see how much different this is from Mario for us.

Discuss!

 

[Axel311]

I don't think Dr. Mario's small differences change his matchup to Dedede much at all compared to Mario. Dedede is still combo food against Dr. Mario, Dr. Mario can reflect gordo easily with pills just like Mario does with fireball. Also the projectile forces Dedede to approach. That's still the biggest problems to Dedede in this matchup. Dr. Mario does a little more damage but is slower and has a slightly worse recovery but I don't think that's very significant for Dedede.

However for some reason I find the pills easier to powershield. They feel like they bounce slower and are easier to time on shield.

Personally I've had an easier time with Dr. Mario compared to regular Mario with Dedede. But I think that's mainly due to more players and better players using regular Mario instead. I run into good Mario mains all the time, but it's so rare to find a good Dr. Mario main. That said I did actually run into a Dr. Mario main in pools last local tourney I was at and ended up taking the set 2-0 pretty easily using Dedede.

Overall though I don't think the matchup is much different for us. I think it has to have the same rating as regular Mario. Because Dedede is forced to approach, is combo food and gordo is shutdown I think it's a slightly losing one for Dedede.

55:45

 

[KeithTheGeek]

You say Doc being slower and having a lower recovery isn't significant, but I like to think it is.

Simply put, Doc's combo game isn't as strong as Mario's, and he has a harder time chasing for follow ups and such. His recovery is also significantly worse than Mario, and since Dedede tends to do well against opponents off-stage, we get the gimps and kills earlier than we would against Mario.

Besides that, though, I would agree that the match-up is fairly similar to the one with Mario. Need to be wary of the pills and Doc's superior frame data on his aerials and stuff. It's definitely a better match-up for Dedede than the one versus Mario.

IMO, 55:45 at worst, my gut says approximately 50:50 though. I have tended to lose to Doc the few times I've faced one, but I never felt it was a match-up problem and more just myself getting out played/making mistakes.

 

[Soul Train]

Basically the same match up as above, but with mainly negative changes. Doc doesn't combo as well as Mario...and has ass recovery. Gimp the dude like it's your job. I actually put it even, if not more slightly in the king's favor.

55:45

 

[Axel311]

Interesting thoughts. Dr. Mario has a tougher time combo-ing compared to Mario against most of the cast, but do you really think this is the case against Dedede's giantic hurtbox? I think that his huge hurtbox really negates that problem for Dr. Mario. Also, what's causing the matchup to be in Dedede's favor when the pill is an easy reflect option, shutting down gordo, plus Dedede is forced to approach? We all know we are much better off when the opponent has to approach. Just my opinion, but I have a hard time putting the matchup even or in Dedede's favor when the opponent can shut down gordo and outcamp us.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

I don't think there's much Doc can do to use from a distance besides annoy us with pills. Perfect shielding those should remove the problem, and as far as pills deflecting Gordo, well...that's a problem with pretty much any projectile character. If anything it should encourage smarter use of the Gordo as a pressure option.

 

[shrooby]

So it would seem Dr. Mario may be less of a threat than the non PhD variety.
That's what I expected to be said. And I agree.
A character being able to combo you isn't that big a deal if they don't have the mobility to compliment it. That's where I think this MU becomes less difficult.
Granted, Dr. Mario generally doesn't have to get you to as high a percent as Mario to KO you, so it balances out sorta, but Mario can sometimes have trouble netting a stock. The slower variant has just as much and more trouble. That on top of worse recovery.
The pills are annoying, just like any projectile, but they travel slow enough to be able to sorta work around.

But, anyway, the Doc is out.
50:50

Now it's time for Fox!
...there sure are a lot of Fox-related memes, aren't there?

...

Not important! Let's talk about this guy!
Discuss!

 

[#KingM]

Alright, lemme give this a shot,

What I've noticed from Fox is that unlike Falco, his lasers don't have any effect on the gordo's, giving DDD some much needed distance from this up-close and personal smasher. Yes, he can use his reflector, but I doubt It's going to give any DDD player who's at least practiced their timing on returning the gordo once, any trouble at all. What I do believe a problem Fox presents DDD with is his speed, but even that isn't going to take DDD down easily.

DDD has so many approach options with Fox too, able to simply start a jab combo, or toss a gordo. Though, due to Fox's speed I doubt he'll be able to get much heavy blows on him, DDD is going to be using the fastest moves possible to rack up some points quickly.

Overall though, I'd put it at a 55:45

 

[Jdawg26]

This matchup is atrocious. Absolutely horrid, and one of my least favorite to play against. Fox has combos on us for days, jab setups for weeks, and the frame data to beat out almost every move we have on block. You essentially have to play perfectly in this matchup or else Fox can just drop his shield and do whatever he wants to you if you're anything below 80%, or just raw up smash you if you're above 130; even lower with rage. Not to mention that Fox has solid kill confirms off of his dash attack, jab, ftilt, and nair. After a certain point you just have to hold shield and pray that he does something super unsafe, as most of his normals are hard to punish with DDD's lackluster OOS options.

The worst part is that he doesn't even have to fight you unless you're on his terms. Fox can run and gun you down without much hassle on some stages, and each shot adds up pretty quickly. The ONLY thing we have going for us here is our offstage game, and even then it's hard to time our slow hitboxes against the side b unless you know when exactly he's going to phantasm. The margin for error is fairly small unless you manage to auto-cancel something and still throw out a hitbox that's relevant enough to pose a threat.

Imho, 70:30 Fox. Keep in mind that my experience with this character is mostly offline; where they have the ability to perform more precise recoveries and setups. Online it's a bit easier, but winning mostly comes down to the Fox playing poorly rather than DDD playing well.

 

[Luggy]

I just encountered this matchup. And even though I'm only a beginner at playing DeDeDe, I can already tell it : Fox destroys the poor Penguin.

The matchup is pretty much Fox beating you up, grinding damage to get you at kill percent. Afterwards, it's just a matter of time before Triple D receive a good UpSmash from McCloud.
Our King is the favorite meal for Fox. He's big, doesn't have really fast moves like Mario to get out of combos and can be combo-ed for days.

The only "advantages" our main has is the kill power and his resistance at being knock out. Appart from the UpSmash, DeDeDe doesn't really fear the KO move from Fox, but won't be able to give lots of hits to KO Fox. And of course, Fox is pretty light, so we can KO him at good percents (around the 100% easily near the ledge, but that's not really accurate).

All and all, you don't have to be a DeDeDe expert to tell how bad the matchup is against Fox. McCloud is too fast, puts too much pressure and can still KO our character at good percents, without taking much damage himself. If you want to win this matchup, you really have to know Fox perfectly. But if you don't want to, I think it's good to have a secondary or an other main for this matchup. Other characters do a lot better than DeDeDe in this matchup.

My final rating is a...
70:30

King DeDeDe will have a hard time clobbing this animal out of his castle.

 

[Axel311]

The Fox matchup definitely isn't in Dedede's favor but I don't think it's as bad as many above have stated. To me it feels very similar to the Captain Falcon matchup.

Fox plays hit and run well and his incredible speed means he can take advantage of our bad frame data. Like falcon, fox will try to catch you in lag and then speed in and punish with awesome combos. You have to be very reactionary and careful. But this matchup definitely isn't as bad as Sonic or Zero Suit. The biggest reason is we can space well with gordo, fox can't reflect it with laser. That really helps us here just like in the falcon matchup. Ftilt is really good to stop his ground approaches as well, and catches his side B.

You've got to play well here and make solid reads to win. Tough but not impossible.

60 :40

On a different note, any chance we could get multiple matchup discussions going at once? We have a lot of characters to cover. Looking at page 1 of this thread it looks like we've gotten through 12 in about 3 months. Do the math, with 55 total characters it's going to be a long time before we get through them all otherwise. Not to mention we might have to redo some depending on nerfs and buffs in future patches.

 

[#KingM]

With all do respect, I think you guys are playing DDD wrong when it comes to Fox. I've played against several For Glory Fox players, and not once have I let them beat me. It could just be a coincidence, but damn, that's one hell of a coincidence.

Since DDD is a heavy character, he'll be comboed heavily. DDD is a spacer, who likes to keep his enemies up above, or a full hammer's distance away. Gordos, and ftilts are enough to keep Fox at bay until his percentage rises, then DDD waits until the right moment for the killing blow.

I really don't think that Fox has the advantage when it comes to DDD. My original opinion remains unchanged.

 

[Luggy]

With all do respect, I think you guys are playing DDD wrong when it comes to Fox. I've played against several For Glory Fox players, and not once have I let them beat me. It could just be a coincidence, but damn, that's one hell of a coincidence.

Since DDD is a heavy character, he'll be comboed heavily. DDD is a spacer, who likes to keep his enemies up above, or a full hammer's distance away. Gordos, and ftilts are enough to keep Fox at bay until his percentage rises, then DDD waits until the right moment for the killing blow.

I really don't think that Fox has the advantage when it comes to DDD. My original opinion remains unchanged.

While I respect your opinion, I don't think you can fully analyze the matchup with For Glory only. The people there aren't generally great for analyzing a matchup. I'll say you should either find a good Fox main on the site or on Smash Ladder. That way, you could see what Fox can do on other stages and analyze the matchup better.

Please understand.

 

[#KingM]

While I respect your opinion, I don't think you can fully analyze the matchup with For Glory only. The people there aren't generally great for analyzing a matchup. I'll say you should either find a good Fox main on the site or on Smash Ladder. That way, you could see what Fox can do on other stages and analyze the matchup better.

Please understand.

That's a fair enough point, and I agree with you. Sometimes, not the best of people are playing For Glory. However, I still don't agree Fox has the advantage on DDD. In fact, I'd be surprised if Fox got DDD above 60%. To me, It's just not reasonable, and I don't see Fox winning very often,

 

[Luggy]

However, I still don't agree Fox has the advantage on DDD. In fact, I'd be surprised if Fox got DDD above 60%. To me, It's just not reasonable, and I don't see Fox winning very often,

Maybe you're opinion will change, but I'm still pretty sure Fox has an advantage against Triple D. Other people, me in it, have already said cited the large advantages of Fox against DDD.
For me, I see the overall rate of the matchup as a "60:40", at the very least. My personal opinion would put DDD in an even worse position, but that's only my opinion, just like my little prediction up there.

Feel free to disagree, like I always say.

 

[Splooshi Splashy]

I'd also agree with Luggy regarding where to find good Fox mains to grind out this MU, because those locations can also allow for Customs On, as well as multiple legal stages, which could help us out.

Speaking of Customs, would any of ours help us out against Fox? I'd imagine 3322 or 3323 or 3122 or 3123 might be good decks to bring.
'Course, Fox would probably get to bring 3332 or 3333.

Also speaking of legal stages, I'm personally not sure which ones we should be taking Fox to. Would Lylat Cruise be a good idea to take advantage of our superior recovery? Would Halberd & Delfino be bad ideas?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

With all do respect, I think you guys are playing DDD wrong when it comes to Fox. I've played against several For Glory Fox players, and not once have I let them beat me. It could just be a coincidence, but damn, that's one hell of a coincidence.

Since DDD is a heavy character, he'll be comboed heavily. DDD is a spacer, who likes to keep his enemies up above, or a full hammer's distance away. Gordos, and ftilts are enough to keep Fox at bay until his percentage rises, then DDD waits until the right moment for the killing blow.

I really don't think that Fox has the advantage when it comes to DDD. My original opinion remains unchanged.

While I respect your opinion, I don't think you can fully analyze the matchup with For Glory only. The people there aren't generally great for analyzing a matchup. I'll say you should either find a good Fox main on the site or on Smash Ladder. That way, you could see what Fox can do on other stages and analyze the matchup better.

Please understand.

See bold.

With all due respect, neither of these places/things are very good metrics in which to measure a character either. Even the best connections can cause input delay of a few frames, which in turn fudges up the timing for a lot of things, crucial ones, that can turn the tide of a match.

So please, bear this in mind as well.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Luggy]

See bold.

With all due respect, neither of these places/things are very good metrics in which to measure a character either. Even the best connections can cause input delay of a few frames, which in turn fudges up the timing for a lot of things, crucial ones, that can turn the tide of a match.

So please, bear this in mind as well.

Smooth Criminal

Smash Ladder is still the best place to learn matchups online. If you can't play offline with a friend often, it's best to go to this site. It's still nice to remember though.

 

[Axel311]

Also speaking of legal stages, I'm personally not sure which ones we should be taking Fox to. Would Lylat Cruise be a good idea to take advantage of our superior recovery? Would Halberd & Delfino be bad ideas?

I think they'd be bad ideas, yes. Fox's Usmash is awesome and his main kill move. We don't want low ceilings, we want a stage with a high ceiling to counter his Usmash.

I wouldn't want to take him to any stage with platforms either because it also makes his Usmash kill us earlier if he hits us while on a platform, plus platforms make gordo spacing more difficult.

So all in all I think we want a flat stage with a high ceiling. And that's duck hunt. So in my opinion that's the best stage option for facing fox. Duck hunt's short sides also give us the advantage in my opinion. Fox can't kill that well off the side, he prefers killing off the top with upsmash, but we can kill well off the side with dsmash and bair.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

...one thing I would like to point out is jab lock > dsmash on Duck Hunt's edges. The smaller blastzones on the side can kill D3 if he's at a high enough percent AND if Fox's dsmash is fresh. It's an alternative to his usual upsmash silliness.

Other than that, good reasoning to take Fox to this stage. High-ish ceiling, platforms that can work against his strings and follow-ups (sidenote: Mr. Peepers, the dog, can work against us for obvious/similar reasons as well), and smaller side blastzones that can lead to early KOs on a good read make it a decent counterpick.

Smooth Criminal

 

[KeithTheGeek]

I've generally avoided using Dedede against Fox because the consensus is that it's a bad match-up (and a character I personally find frustrating to deal with regardless), but I kinda like Lylat as a stage. It gives Fox some advantages but the tilting of the stage can really screw with his recovery.

Also, doesn't Duck Hunt generally have large-ish blastzones? I think they only appear small because of how the camera locks into place, but I could be wrong.

Regardless, I'm not sure if I'd take Fox to Duck Hunt. The main reason being, that stage is huge. Like, really huge compared to most of our other legal options. What's stopping Fox from keeping his distance and pelting us with lasers? Plus, with Dedede's frankly poor mobility it's easy to get caught on the stage's various platforms. Ducks can muck with your Gordo spacing, as well.

(Unrelated to the Fox match-up, it's a stage I tend to ban if I think my opponent will pick it for whatever reason.)

Anyways, as for the spacie himself, I don't have much to add. There isn't really anything Dedede can do to Fox without absolute precision, aside from the usual superiority we tend to have once our opponent is actually off-stage.

At a minimum 60:40

 

[Axel311]

Also, doesn't Duck Hunt generally have large-ish blastzones? I think they only appear small because of how the camera locks into place, but I could be wrong.

Regardless, I'm not sure if I'd take Fox to Duck Hunt. The main reason being, that stage is huge. Like, really huge compared to most of our other legal options. What's stopping Fox from keeping his distance and pelting us with lasers? Plus, with Dedede's frankly poor mobility it's easy to get caught on the stage's various platforms. Ducks can muck with your Gordo spacing, as well.

I'm not 100% on this and someone let me know if I am wrong, but I don't think it's any bigger than any other flat stage - the high ceiling and zoomed out camera angle just make it seem like it is.

 

[Axel311]

After testing I was completely wrong on this. The ceiling on duck hunt looks higher but after testing you kill off the top at the same percentage as FD. Sides are the same as FD as well. Really weird, I've always been under the impression the ceiling is higher on duck hunt and the sides are shorter.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Thanks for clearing that up.

Smooth Criminal

 

[KeithTheGeek]

After testing I was completely wrong on this. The ceiling on duck hunt looks higher but after testing you kill off the top at the same percentage as FD. Sides are the same as FD as well. Really weird, I've always been under the impression the ceiling is higher on duck hunt and the sides are shorter.

So, yeah, then I definitely wouldn't want to go there instead of FD. Duck Hunt has a lot of platforms that Dedede has difficulties maneuvering about, and the movement of the dog plus the presence of ducks means we can't really even use Gordos effectively on this stage.

I mean, it's not really specifically related to the Fox match-up, but I honestly think Duck Hunt is an auto-ban in my book. At least it would be if more players picked it. It's a stage worth learning anyways, as long as it's legal, but I try to avoid it as much as possible, especially as Dedede.

 

[Axel311]

So, yeah, then I definitely wouldn't want to go there instead of FD. Duck Hunt has a lot of platforms that Dedede has difficulties maneuvering about, and the movement of the dog plus the presence of ducks means we can't really even use Gordos effectively on this stage.

I mean, it's not really specifically related to the Fox match-up, but I honestly think Duck Hunt is an auto-ban in my book. At least it would be if more players picked it. It's a stage worth learning anyways, as long as it's legal, but I try to avoid it as much as possible, especially as Dedede.

Agreed, sounds like FD is our best shot against Fox unless someone thinks one of the omega variants could mess with Fox's recovery more than ours.

 

[shrooby]

And Fox is done.
65:35

And now...hoo boy.
The Super Fighting Robot, Mega Man.
I remember first time I played this MU...nice memories...of getting everything thrown at my face.
But that just makes me want to see what everyone has to say about it even more!
Mega discuss!

 

[Diamond Octobot]

Ayy, looks like I'm first here for once XD
More seriously, this MU feels a bit tricky to judge, since I didn't face or watch many DDD players.

- For King Dedede

• I think Gordos are still nice, but not really reliable : pretty much everything bar Crash Bombs can send them back, turning them into spiky balls of death worth of being the kings of annoyance in Kirby games (I wanna play Pong with 'em. Also, how can hold them ?)
• You have better range. That's it I mean, your hammer goes so far, 's Fair and Bair become really hard to land, and you can just attack through a wall of Lemons. How the heck could we compare to that ?
• has a good amount of jumps with a fast recovery option, so you are kinda hard to gimp. Beware the Hard Knuckles through.
• Use your NeutralB. I mean it. I don't remember if Metal Blades can heal you, but they do heal & , so I bet you can heal with it too. I can't say if you can eat a Charge Shot...

-For Mega Man

• We will use and abuse our Mega Buster in this MU because having a HUGE target like doesn'th happen often, so we will make sure to keep showering you guys in lemonade. It can also save us from these nasty Spike Balls.
• Like I said, is a big, huge, plump, meaty target, which means... You must have guessed it, Air Shooters ! That Uair is so good on big characters, a Fast Fall Uair will lead into another one and maybe a 3rd one if we are lucky, allowing us to rack up to 40 or 60 %, which is as huge as his imposing Majesty's size given the poor damage output we poor robots have been given.
• Last but not least, Leaf Shield is only going to help for grabs onstage, since it is an active hitbox, but we will still make sure to not get hit since we can shield while it is active and since you have such a huge range. It can still annoy you offstage, so be careful.

- On a more general point, Dedede can kill early. I mean, nobody throws kill moves like a moron, but you still can kill earlier than us. Mega Man has good kill moves too, but Dedede is so fat, it takes ages to kill him.

I feel like Mega Man wins the Neutral easily, but he can't leave it if he doesn't want to get hammer'ed. I'd give this MU a good 50:50 without customs, althrough I kinda feel like Dedede has a slightadvantage.


<(Just wait a sec, my phone decided to trick me >.<) -> resolved, don't care about this part. >

 

[ENKER]

Also, Leaf Shield reflects Gordos. I feel that's pretty huge in this MU.

 

[Greward]

Mega wins this solidly, at the very least it's a 6-4 for him, maybe more.

Mega loves fighting huge opponents and slow opponents, specially air speed-wise. That is the definition of DDD.

He's very vulnerable in the air to up air and angled metal blade (which we'll follow up with bair).
In the ground the use of pellets and metal blade will chip for damage and help us get a grab in.
Offstage it's viable to gimp DDD by either hitting him on the 1 frame vulnerability with a Dair after he upBs or pursuing him with Bair.
We can punish some of the high lag moves of DDD with our strong up tilt, killing around 100% with no rage.
Gordos may be annoying but we will usually reflect them with metal blade. Without Metal blade Fair and nair punch will take care of it.
It's very hard to hit Mega with a long startup move since he's using pellets constantly, and DDD has plenty of those.