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Raziek's Robin Training Thread

Célja

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Probably will have to be Thursday, Friday is a busy day for me.
Great, thanks in advanced Raziek for doing this. Lately I feel like I've been hitting a wall and started to get bad with Robin. If I could iron out any issues I'm having to help me improve then that would be awesome.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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@ Raziek Raziek

I wonder when to consult in. Maybe because I might have different plans for this weekend. But I'd really like to see what I excel at and what needs to be worked on.
 

Raziek

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I am rather busy this weekend, so any training sessions will likely have to wait until sometime early next week.
 

Funkermonster

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Okay, so is anyone else open for practice today then? FINALLY got my game back (and hopefully it stays that way). Got some homework to this morning right after I sleep right now, but I've still got this evening open.
 

Rikke

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I think my Robin is pretty good, but talk is cheap, and I wanna be the best. Help/Training from anyone is appreciated!
 
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ActionShot

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Would I possibly be able to sneak in for one of these? I'd love help improving my Robin, no one around me plays him/her. I could do Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays or Sundays with skype whenever you're available!
 

Guineapig126

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It would be a pleasure to be bodied in order to get better at playing Robin. He/she is my favorite character in the game and I want to be able to play as him/her at local tournaments! It's just that I have no previous knowledge/experience of Smash, so learning everything in the game has been really difficult. I feel like with assistance I can get better though.
 

MajorasMask9

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I realize you're busy and there are others as well but I too would enjoy getting a match in with you sometime. I'm free everyday except Wednesday/Thursday (until 8pm) and Friday (until 6pm.) Would also be up to playing against any other Robin mains in the meantime, I don't see many in FG and would love the practice on stages other than just Omegas.
 

Chapter Serf

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I wouldn't mind a training session or twenty if you have time.

Thanks in advance!
 
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SoBMudkip

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I would like to be added into the skype group. A training session wouldn't hurt, but I know you have a lot of people in line and I don't think I'm in dire need of help.
 

Dathx

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I'd be interested in playing a few matches. I'm pretty confident in my skill with Robin, but I'd like to see how I stack up against some of the better players here.

NNID: Dathx77
 

False Sense

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@ Raziek Raziek

If possible, I'd like to arrange another training session. I need the help of a masterful Robin player at the moment.
 

Raziek

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I'm a bit behind on uploads and junk. I have a few sets to upload, and I'm playing Delzethin sometime tonight.

I can play someone else on Wednesday probably?
 

Chapter Serf

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I'm a bit behind on uploads and junk. I have a few sets to upload, and I'm playing Delzethin sometime tonight.

I can play someone else on Wednesday probably?
I can make it, just give me a time, unless there's someone who has been waiting longer than I have been.
 

Guineapig126

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I'm a bit behind on uploads and junk. I have a few sets to upload, and I'm playing Delzethin sometime tonight.

I can play someone else on Wednesday probably?
I can wait for a while, I feel like if I try to self-teach myself (key word: TRY) a little bit and then get advice from an experienced player the results will be a little bit better on my end.
 

Raziek

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I would like to be added into the skype group. A training session wouldn't hurt, but I know you have a lot of people in line and I don't think I'm in dire need of help.
Oh, I missed this one. Did you find your way to the Skype group, or do you still need an add?
 

AC NuBurs

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I would like to participate in one of these if possible, but theres two issues. One is that im from the UK, and out of the few americans ive played online, only a couple of which have been fine, the rest of them had some issues, ranging from slight lag to big spikes.

The other is that I see a lot of people posting in this thread, lol. I feel like I would be making this job harder by adding to this ever growing list.
 

Gamegenie222

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Dang I need to be on here more lmao. But anyway I will be down with this since I have a Wii U now. My open times are after 7 p.m Central Standard Time to get some games in a work on my Robin.
 

Funkermonster

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Tournament this Saturday, wanna practice a little bit with someone tomorrow afternoon as soon as I come home from school before it comes. I don't think I'll be using Robin there, but you can still help me prepare mine for the next one :). And plus, I'd also like to just practice the matchup against Robin with my real mains :4greninja: and :4megaman: just in case one shows up, I never know who my opponent could be...
 

Chapter Serf

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Hey Raz, would you be available some time this weekend?
 

AlienWarhead

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Is there anyway to do a training session on 3DS again, I know you don't like the 3DS version, but I really need some help, can we please just do one more?
 

Raziek

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So, I had a really long session with @ False Sense False Sense and it led to this extremely in-depth rambling on how to move from mid-level to high level. It is now here to read:

OK, so, time for a lot of words
[9:33:12 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: some of which have been said before but bear re-stating
[9:33:51 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: First: The reason you started close, but things got farther and farther away the more games that we played, is extremely extremely complex
[9:34:03 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: There are a million mental factors that played into it
[9:34:41 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: One is adaptation. Early on, some of the things that worked well for you, I made efforts to either find counters for, or work around by other means
[9:35:09 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: on the other side of that same coin, as we went I'm subconsciously building this mental list of things I can do to provoke you to make mistakes
[9:35:42 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: This is the hard part, because it's not like I can say "In X situation you do Y" unless I were to painstakingly re-examine every single replay in exasperating detail
[9:35:59 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: most of it is very unconscious, and I try to point out the obvious stuff when I can
[9:36:08 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: A large part of it is in my movement
[9:36:16 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: I short hop and weave a LOT
[9:36:27 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: because doing so makes you want to do something to stop me
[9:36:55 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: a lot of the time I look like I'm taking a risk with my movement, but it's actually a safe movement designed to get you to take an action that I can punish
[9:37:22 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: Like if I short-hop at you and provoke you to double-jump, that's a win regardless of if I hit you, because it limits your options on the next time I jump at you
[9:38:05 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: Everybody has patterns. The best players are the ones who can recognize and eliminate their own once they start being exploited. And that's not a skill one can exactly teach, so to speak
[9:38:21 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: It requires a lot of perspective to be able to recognize when you're being exploited
[9:38:49 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: I've talked about this before, but in the beginning it was largely a matter of CONSCIOUSLY saying "Ok why did I get hit there?"
[9:39:01 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: if I get hit in the same situation 3 times, I consider that a personal failure
[9:39:18 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: Examining those micro-moments is critical, and also very hard to do
[9:39:31 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: Eventually it becomes a mostly subconscious thing
[9:39:41 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: And you stop doing things that get you punished
[9:39:52 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: (once you have been punished for them and recognize it)
[9:40:13 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: ALL that pertains to the adaptation side of things
[9:40:24 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: the OTHER side of things is the more direct mental battle
[9:40:28 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: like literally mental battle
[9:40:33 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: the battle of confidence
[9:40:53 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: When a player is winning the mental battle, they can make their opponent look like they have no idea how to play the game
[9:41:02 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: this goes for even top level players
[9:41:19 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: like M2K can really embarrass Ally (or he used to, anyway) back in the Brawl days
[9:41:44 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: But in the process of all that adaptation, I have been deliberately beating the confidence out of you every time I punish you for something
[9:41:53 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: I don't do that to be an asshole, mind you
[9:41:58 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: I do that because that's how you win
[9:42:18 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: If you can make your opponent lose confidence in their own actions, they very often crumble
[9:43:02 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: So when I provoke you into doing something and then it doesn't work, it becomes that much easier to then LATER take a riskier play BECAUSE you're scared of attempting what you did the previous time
[9:43:16 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: Like those times where I weave Fairs right in front of your face and then dash-grab you, for example
[9:43:24 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: because I make you scared to leave your shield
[9:43:40 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: All that is just in the mental battle
[9:43:55 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: And that's what separates players on the higher tiers
[9:44:17 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: There's learning to play the game, and learning matchups, mechanical skill, movement, combos, stages, etc,
[9:44:20 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: all of that is important
[9:44:27 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: but that only gets you to mid-level
[9:45:02 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: At the high level you have to fight that mental battle so much more deliberately, because it becomes so much harder to force your opponents to make mistakes
[9:45:22 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: Like, when I talked about the 'Smashes by the ledge' thing
[9:45:32 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: That works on a lot of mid-level players
[9:45:45 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: But against patient players, who wait, and react, it doesn't.
[9:46:02 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: I just sit on the ledge, wait for you to go for the read, then get on for free because you committed to something laggy
[9:46:24 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: That then all gets into the 'playing reactively' thing
[9:46:34 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: If your opponent is willing to make mistakes, let them
[9:46:53 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: Why force someone to lose, if they're willing to throw themselves at you and lose on their own?
[9:47:02 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: (not saying you do, just talking in abstract)
[9:47:30 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: Trying to think if there's anything else really critical that I needed to talk about.
[9:48:10 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: I THINK that's it? This is (obviously) the 'next level' stuff that has to be conquered.
[9:48:33 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: I know that's a literal ****load to take in, so ima run and get some food and let you digest all that for a minute
[9:51:38 PM] False: So, if I understand correctly, you're more or less speaking of analyzing and conditioning the opponent?
[9:52:57 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: That's correct, yes
[9:53:59 PM] False: I understand what you're saying, but naturally, it's one thing to understand something in theory, and another thing entirely to do it in practice.
[9:54:14 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: Yeah, and therein lies the rub
[9:54:25 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: because I have no magic answer on how to suddenly start applying all that
[9:54:37 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: I've been playing Smash since 2009
[9:54:42 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: competitively, that is
[9:54:58 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: And I certainly did not have that on the level I do now until even a year ago
[9:55:39 PM] False: Nothing left to do but practice, right?
[9:56:07 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: Pretty much. Practice, self-examine. Refine, rinse, repeat.
[9:57:02 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: Unless you have a major objection I am probably going to post that really long uninterrupted monologue in the training thread
[9:57:23 PM] SUGOI | DRB | Raziek: because that's kinda hard to script and just flowed naturally out of me in perhaps the best way I could have hoped for
 

Gamegenie222

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Damn nice write up. @ Raziek Raziek You don't mind If I post this in my local FB group for smash 4 to help out with the lesser players and what not?

Also speaking of M2K i played him a while back pre patch in tourney and he booty blasted me LMAO.
 
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Scarf Wynaut

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Why haven't I found this before? I need this in my life
When are you available? I can do weekday afternoons and weekends (gmt+0) (NNID: Scarf-Wynaut)
thanks in advance
 

freeshooterxigbar2

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That was incredibly helpful and really well written. Thanks for that post Raziek. If you ever have time I'd love to get some matches with you.
 

The_Cardinal

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When is typically a good time for you @ Raziek Raziek ? The weekends? I would eventually like to schedule a training session with you (with customs) although I'm in no rush. I also wouldn't want it to be too long, maybe 7ish matches. That way I can just rewatch a few matches (instead of a gajillion) and study them fully, maybe coming up with my own critiques in addition to yours. I may or may not also have additional work over the weekend so that's why I would prefer relatively short sessions.
 

Raziek

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When is typically a good time for you @ Raziek Raziek ? The weekends? I would eventually like to schedule a training session with you (with customs) although I'm in no rush. I also wouldn't want it to be too long, maybe 7ish matches. That way I can just rewatch a few matches (instead of a gajillion) and study them fully, maybe coming up with my own critiques in addition to yours. I may or may not also have additional work over the weekend so that's why I would prefer relatively short sessions.
Evenings are generally good for me. Sunday nights are usually busy. (Smash tourneys locally)
 

Moydow

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So this is where we go to volunteer ourselves to get gimped by the mighty nair-oplane? Because I could probably use some of that. Monday to Thursday is usually the only time I can do anything like this; weekends are out entirely for me.
 
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