Raziek's Robin Research Room & Repository (Moveset, Mechanics & Frame Data!)

[MindlessFire]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-_qhYIvFh4&list=UUZoh0jgDqGA4p8mXZIrTnlw

If you skip to the end, you can see the player using Robin to KO Falco at 80% with an Up Air Smash.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I hope Elfire is a custom move to Arcfire!

 

[Raziek]

Astounding work and analysis @ Raziek ! Didn't expect the jabs to be different after all. Strange though why Thunder doesn't have it's own jab.

However I think there's one problem here and that is we don't have entirely clear way how to count how many "uses" each spell in Thunder takes from the total amount of uses in the tome- at least approximately. To explain this easier I'll now refer the tomes by their initials: (T), (ET) (AT) (TH). Also I'll substitute the "total amount of uses" with "magic units"

Like, if we would suppose that Thunder has 20 uses if using all 20 T:s alone, then we'd know that using T takes out one unit from the total amount of magic units in the move. So how much do rest of the spells take from the "total amount"?

It'd be really helpful during heated matches because I'd be able to count how much magic I have left and how much each spell will take from the total amount in order to not whiff if trying to use a spell that I have not enough amount of magic left, or if to resort using stronger spells if having decent amount.

Basically:

Magic Units in Total = 20(?)
Thunder (T) = 1
Elthunder (ET) = 2 or 3?
Arcthunder (AT) = 5
Thoron (TH) = 6

Can you see if these are right?

Thunder: 20 (Flashing at 15) = 5% per use
Elthunder: 7 (Flashing at 5) = 14% per use
Arcthunder: 4 (Flashing at 3) = 25% per use
Thoron: 3 (Flashing at 2) = 33% per use

Your numbers aren't quite right, because it breaks after 3 Thorons, or 4 Arcthunder.

If you want to think of it in a 'units' sense like that, using Thunder as 1, with a total of 20 then the numbers would be most closely approximated (to whole numbers) as:

Thunder: 1
Elthunder: 3
Arcthunder: 5
Thoron: 7 (6.67)

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Thunder: 1
Elthunder: 3
Arcthunder: 5
Thoron: 7 (6.67)

Alright, thanks for clarifying!

 

[Raziek]

No problem!

I went ahead and added a large post with my thoughts on the entire kit & his strengths/weaknesses to the OP.

 

[.Shìkì]

Just leaving some things here from matches i've seen vs. humans: Running A, while awkwardly short, is actually not that bad, i've seen far worse. Elwind seems to either randomly spike/meteor, or spike/meteor when you hit one of the blades perfectly dead-center (i really would love it if Elwind2 gave it a startup but allowed you to aim the blades where you want to make it usefull while standing on the ground too). As for grabrange it didn't look THAT bad, but you definitly have the btter view of it. I think i saw a video that showed pivotcancelling attacks in the same direction as you were initially running was possible though, does that work with grabs too?

And lastly , a question, albeit propably a bad one: You CAN continue charging after cancelling it right? So, charge to Arcthunder, cancel, and later finish charging to thoron? Or can you only store Thoron/are forced to use whatever you stored before being able to charge again? I have only seen people charging and instantly firing or charging to thoron and then use that later.

 

[Raziek]

Just leaving some things here from matches i've seen vs. humans: Running A, while awkwardly short, is actually not that bad, i've seen far worse. Elwind seems to either randomly spike/meteor, or spike/meteor when you hit one of the blades perfectly dead-center (i really would love it if Elwind2 gave it a startup but allowed you to aim the blades where you want to make it usefull while standing on the ground too). As for grabrange it didn't look THAT bad, but you definitly have the btter view of it. I think i saw a video that showed pivotcancelling attacks in the same direction as you were initially running was possible though, does that work with grabs too?

Not sure, will test.

And lastly , a question, albeit propably a bad one: You CAN continue charging after cancelling it right? So, charge to Arcthunder, cancel, and later finish charging to thoron? Or can you only store Thoron/are forced to use whatever you stored before being able to charge again? I have only seen people charging and instantly firing or charging to thoron and then use that later.

Yes, though it seems to 'reset' you to the bottom of the current level. So if you charge to Elthunder, then try to 'micro-charge' your way to Arcthunder, I don't think you can do it.

<Test>

Confirmed. Thunder has charge levels. You can only store the current level. If you cancel a charge without making it to the next level, the 'extra' charge is lost.

 

[shrooby]

Oooo, Nosferatu sounds so sexy...

I'm honestly surprised at Robin's grabs; the "magical" characters tend to have strong grabs. Outside of up-throw for easily getting opponents above you, it doesn't seem like they'll be all that useful.
Hopefully a command grab will make up for Robin's terrible grabs though.

Regardless, thanks so much for the info dump, Raziek!

 

[.Shìkì]

Not sure, will test.

Yes, though it seems to 'reset' you to the bottom of the current level. So if you charge to Elthunder, then try to 'micro-charge' your way to Arcthunder, I don't think you can do it.

<Test>

Confirmed. Thunder has charge levels. You can only store the current level. If you cancel a charge without making it to the next level, the 'extra' charge is lost.

I thought it would do that, i just hoped you wouldn't be reset to basic thunder or instantly fire the stored spell without the possibility to resume charging. Working as hoped, thanks!

 

[Raziek]

Unlocked and added info on Elwind 2 and Arcfire 3:

Arcfire 3: 6-7%. Turns Arcfire into a near-vertical Fireball that travels very fast, and does not burn on impact. It lingers where it hits, but does not cause additional hits. On the ground, this hits basically directly in front of Robin's feet. In the air, shoots diagonally downwards at a steep angle.

Elwind2: 4% (first), 5% (second). Shoots two blasts downwards, like Elwind1, but has a noticeable delay between the first and second. The trick is that the second one goes significantly higher than normal (About 1.5 times higher, eyeballing it). Drawback is that you have almost no horizontal movement during the cast, and cannot start to fall horizontally until you reach the Apex (think like Wolf's UpB in Brawl).

 

[Raziek]

Advanced: Elwind3 Slide

If you're playing on a sloped stage like YI:B, you can Elwind3 INTO the slope, and your momentum will carry, sliding you up to as far as the middle of the stage! You can shield fairly quickly, but not instantly.

 

[Ussi]

Robin looks like a steller doubles character. So much support and set up in his grabs and moves.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I wonder what are the translated names for the custom moves, barring Elwind.

 

[Jackson]

Alright, great stuff Raziek. I was looking for something like this. I have a question, though: What do you mean when you say stuff like "Elwind 2" and "Nosferatu 3"? Can you charge these or something? I get that Neutral B can be charged, but I'm confused by your meaning here.

 

[.Shìkì]

Alright, great stuff Raziek. I was looking for something like this. I have a question, though: What do you mean when you say stuff like "Elwind 2" and "Nosferatu 3"? Can you charge these or something? I get that Neutral B can be charged, but I'm confused by your meaning here.

He means custom specials 2 and 3.

 

[Jackson]

He means custom specials 2 and 3.

Ahhh, thanks. I guess that's pretty irrelevant to me because I think its safe to assume that tournaments wont use em.

Also, another question: can someone tell me what was meant when it was announced a while back that the levin sword was used by doing Smash attacks in the air or on the ground? Smash attacks in the air???

 

[.Shìkì]

Ahhh, thanks. I guess that's pretty irrelevant to me because I think its safe to assume that tournaments wont use em.

Also, another question: can someone tell me what was meant when it was announced a while back that the levin sword was used by doing Smash attacks in the air or on the ground? Smash attacks in the air???

Actually it is NOT safe to say, from what I've seen at least a couple of the known competitive smashers think custom moves look pretty well balanced out and they are easy to set-up too. So let time show what is to come.

 

[Jackson]

Actually it is NOT safe to say, from what I've seen at least a couple of the known competitive smashers think custom moves look pretty well balanced out and they are easy to set-up too. So let time show what is to come.

Yeah, good point. I just thought the idea didnt sounds suitable for competition without checking them out. My bad.

 

[Raziek]

Ahhh, thanks. I guess that's pretty irrelevant to me because I think its safe to assume that tournaments wont use em.

Also, another question: can someone tell me what was meant when it was announced a while back that the levin sword was used by doing Smash attacks in the air or on the ground? Smash attacks in the air???

It basically just means doing a 'smash' motion with the stick. Same difference as tilts/smashes, except in the air.

The attacks are the same, but I think the Levin Sword has marginally better range, and of course way better damage and kill power.

 

[.Shìkì]

It basically just means doing a 'smash' motion with the stick. Same difference as tilts/smashes, except in the air.

The attacks are the same, but I think the Levin Sword has marginally better range, and of course way better damage and kill power.

Do you actually have to smash it so by holding it or "notsmashing" you can use Bronze-Sword in the air at will? That might helping sending up some combos and rack up %. If you can't or there are no combo-possibilities...well then it seems it is "Use Levin Sword every opportunity you get" time.

 

[Folt]

Actually it is NOT safe to say, from what I've seen at least a couple of the known competitive smashers think custom moves look pretty well balanced out and they are easy to set-up too. So let time show what is to come.

I hope they're allowed. From what I've seen, they don't look they will make one fighter vastly better than others, and it could add variety to mirror matches.

 

[Raziek]

Do you actually have to smash it so by holding it or "notsmashing" you can use Bronze-Sword in the air at will? That might helping sending up some combos and rack up %. If you can't or there are no combo-possibilities...well then it seems it is "Use Levin Sword every opportunity you get" time.

You can, yeah. It doesn't force you to use the Levin sword again if you just do a tilt-aerial.

 

[Jackson]

Alright thanks Raziek.

 

[.Shìkì]

You can, yeah. It doesn't force you to use the Levin sword again if you just do a tilt-aerial.

Thanks for the fast answer. Just posting this last question and then directly going to sleep : Have you compared the power of Robins B-Throw to the power of Ness' and Zeldas B-Throws? Since the blastzones seem so far away it would be nice to see its strength compared to a similar move that is known to be one of the most powerful B-Throws (at least in earlier iterations).

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Does Robin have any control over Arcfire's (default, not customs) trajectory? I swear I saw it sometimes go further and at a less steep angle when I was watching the VGBC stream.

 

[Raziek]

Nope.

I got Thoron 2 though. It consumes about double the usage and takes longer to charge, but kills at 90. AND DOES 31 DAMAGE.

 

[Hong]

Any update on whether or not Thoron is reflectable?

 

[Raziek]

It is. Ryker caped a CPU Robin's Thoron back at him with Doc.

 

[Delzethin]

It is. Ryker caped a CPU Robin's Thoron back at him with Doc.

Ah, crap. So much for it being transcendent. Looks like Thoron-2 is a bad option against anyone with a reflector, but against those who don't or those who you don't need to zone as much against it's great if you prefer having another kill move.

Also, I vouch we call Elwind-2 Highwind.

 

[Unicorn]

Arcfire into Thoron-2. GGWP. The only problem is finding ~6 seconds or however long to charge it up.

 

[Raziek]

Got Elfire 2. Elfire 2 shoots at an almost horizontal angle with long start-up and recovery. Does 10% and explodes in a fairly large hitbox, no lingering flame.

Doesn't kill even at like 170.

I would say use Elfire 3 for zoning, or Elfire 1 for combos.

 

[Delzethin]

Arcfire-2 sounds like a poor man's Valflame. That lack of power is really disappointing.

Seems like the second version of everything so far is the least useful...except Thoron-2. Speaking of which, any sign of Thoron-3?

 

[Hong]

Got Elfire 2. Elfire 2 shoots at an almost horizontal angle with long start-up and recovery. Does 10% and explodes in a fairly large hitbox, no lingering flame.

So essentially the to Arcfire 1's , eh?

Does not sound so appealing, just on the grounds that the Thunder line is already a solid selection of projectiles.

 

[dna.noodle]

I've been playing the JP version and as far as I can tell, this is how Robin's book works.

There seem to be multiple books and I think it works such that each element he can use has a book that goes with it. His elements are thunder, fire, air and shadow. If you spam any single element too many times in too short a timespan he throws the book away. For example, spamming 4-6 Forward Bs (fire bolt with a lingering fire effect on impact) will cause him to drop that book. Then he can't use that ability for some number of seconds.

Implications:
The most vital implication in my opinion is that tapping neutral A on the ground uses an air attack with repeated hits. The recovery move on up B is an air attack. I found that if I spam that neutral A air-based magic I could not longer use my recovery for a short period of time.

The second most important is that all of this is equally true for his lightning sword. You only get (X) swings before he tosses it on the ground and uses the basic sword. This sucks when your opponent has taken enough damage that you can kill them because the lightning sword seems to give you all your best kill moves (fair and bair are devastating, but this is also true with smash moves).

Unconfirmed:
I don't know for sure that it is time that replenishes your books and sword, but it does seem that way.
I don't know how long it takes.
I don't know if there are any ways to speed up recovery.
I don't know if you can lose two books at once or not. It seems you will probably recover one before it becomes an issue.
I don't know how many uses you get out of books and the lightning sword. It seems random, but I need to test more.

Conclusion:
I think it is even more important for Robin to use a variety of abilities than it is for other characters. If you spread out your ability use, you shouldn't run into problems with losing books you need to use. Keep an eye on your character model to see if he drops anything after an ability. Watch his sword to see what kind of kill power you have.

If you have any questions or ideas on things to test, please let me know. I'll be tweeting about the game as well. @dnanoodle

 

[.Shìkì]

Nope.

I got Thoron 2 though. It consumes about double the usage and takes longer to charge, but kills at 90. AND DOES 31 DAMAGE.

Robin + Villager doubles confirmed godtier

 

[Hong]

@ D dna.noodle
@ Raziek has already uncovered a lot of this information, and has compiled it into this thread, so I merged your thread into this one.

 

[dna.noodle]

Thank you Hong.

A question I have about the Levin sword...I see that it equips with you ground and air smash, but after I have it equipped I can't seem to swing the Bronze sword with aerial tilts until I reset with a ground tilt. Can anyone confirm being able to switch to Bronze in the air?

 

[Raziek]

Thank you Hong.

A question I have about the Levin sword...I see that it equips with you ground and air smash, but after I have it equipped I can't seem to swing the Bronze sword with aerial tilts until I reset with a ground tilt. Can anyone confirm being able to switch to Bronze in the air?

You can, yeah. It doesn't force you to use the Levin sword again if you just do a tilt-aerial.

 

[.Shìkì]

@ Raziek did you compare the B-Throw power to Ness' or Zeldas yet? Also, when i was about to sleep i came up with another question: Did you test whether or not running A has a good priority? If it does it might be awesome for mindgames, as the start-up seems incredibly fast, almost instant. Like, you can dash at enemies, and if they shield you punish with Nosferatu or a grab, and if they try to attack you because they think you will grab you just out-prio them with running A (That would be so glorius).

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Another silly question pertaining to Arcfire:

In the VGBC stream (again) I saw someone use the fire jab and it then made Robin ditch his Arcfire tome afterwards. Can you please test if jabs count towards Elwind and Arcfire's durability?