Chiroz
Tier Lists? Foolish...
As some of you know, I was at E3. I got around 80+ matches of gameplay! I have tested every character on the demos at least a little and almost every technique I could remember to try.
Update: Currently uploading videos!
[collapse=Demos]
The Wii U's instantly loaded on the Smash Demo, no loading screen or anything. The first screen said: Press A and then it went directly into character select screen, nothing in between. 20 characters (you all know them), 8 stages (Battlefield, Town and City, SMB, FE Arena thing, Pilotwings, Wily's Castle, Boxing Ring and some other I can't remember).
The 3DS version had a whole new 8 stages (except for battlefield which was shared) and had 4 different characters! Rosalina is replaced by Luigi. Olimar is replaced by Yoshi. Zelda is replaced by Sheik. Link is replaced by Toon Link.
The rules for the demos are 2 games per person. (Then you go back in line). The games are 2 minute FFAs, items on medium, random stage. First match is a "practice match". 2nd match is betting a special edition smash tshirt.
[collapse=Controls:]
The C-Stick now charges! What?! Yes you heard correctly. If you leave the C-Stick tilted it will charge the smash. Also for Brawl fans, you can still tilt by smashing in the same direction you have your control stick on.
Control options were only gamecube. There was 0 option for any other type of control. In fact the demo had 3 screens teaching you how to play with the gamecube controller. One before Smash loaded. One while the match was loading and one while the match ended (and the character select screen was loading). This programming for the demo implies Gamecube controllers will also be used for Best Buy Demos.
[/collapse]
[/collapse]
[collapse=Items:]
[collapse=Final Smashes:]
I saw every final Smash except for Yoshi's, Sonic's and Toon Link's. I can confirm all final smashes (that I saw) remain the same except for ZSS, Luigi and Pit. Luigi and Pit were already known, ZSS was shown at the invitational. [/collapse]
[collapse=Assist Trophies]
I just remembered something new. Assist trophies are attackable!!! I am not sure if they all are but most of them are. That reminds me, remember that Midna assist trophy that killed like 3 of our pro players? Yea, you can just jab it every 4 to 5 seconds and it will never attack. Attacking Midna actually stops her attack, so just jabbing it a few times every now and then renders it useless. Obviously you can't be looking at Midna to jab her everytime she is going to attack, but I saw some of the players trying to block her (she grabs), trying to dodge her (it has a lasting hit box, can't dodge it) completely unaware that you could just jab her and be done with it.
If you hit an assist trophy enough you can kill them (they fall off sort of like Mario in the SNES Marios, they just fall off through the floor).
[/collapse]
[collapse=Non-Working Items:]
Fairy Bottle: definitely not working. In the demo it was doing the exact same thing Mr. Saturn does in previous games. The bottle wouldn't open, you can just throw it around. I tried throwing it into the ground and even throwing a bob-omb on it, nothing worked.
Banana Peel: Banana peels either weren't working or were changed. The bananas now only trip on hit and only on the first hit at that. If you throw a banana peel into the ground it will not trip anyone. If you throw it at someone, hit a 1st target and it bounces and hits a 2nd target, the 2nd target won't trip either. Only the very first hit will trip a player.[/collapse]
[collapse=Changed items:]
As far as I could tell, no returning item was changed in its effect.[/collapse]
[collapse=New items:]
Blue Shell: Homes in from above on the player with the highest score. After a while it drops on them. The player can easily avoid it by moving. When it collides with a player it creates an explosion which damages all players in range.
Fairy: Not working.
Windwaker Wind Thing: Works like an instant Mario FLUDD that you can move while using. It allows you to get your opponent out of the stage really quickly but won't do much after that.
Steeldiver: Raygun which explodes send opponent in an upwards manner instead of sideways.
Tanooki Leaf: Gives the player an extended version of Peach's ability to float.
Ogre Club: Hits hard and summons a whirldwind which travels incredibly slow and doesn't hit that hard.
Fire Bar: Hits hard and really fast. Its basically a much faster and longer version of the beam sword but with limited uses.
Can't remember the others right now.[/collapse][/collapse]
[collapse=Stages:]
[collapse=Battlefield:]
What you see is what you get.[/collapse]
[collapse=Town and City:]
The stage through me up a little. Platforms leave suddenly and incredibly fast. I was standing in a platform and I died because of how fast they left. That said the stage has a set path pattern. So it isn't random. Once you know when the platforms leave, you can prepare for that and not stand on a platform like I was. [/collapse]
[collapse=SMB:]
Seemed kind of weird. Icicles kept dropping at one point. Didn't really think too much about it.[/collapse]
[collapse=Boxing Ring:]
This level gets tiring fast. Its a boring level. Ceiling is incredibly high and its a walk off so the only way to kill is through the sides. The stage itself sort of disrupts fights because of the edges canceling attacks and making you bounce high in the air.[/collapse]
[collapse=Wily's Castle:]
The most popular stage in all senses of the word. Seems like a good stage. Platforms appear every now and then. If it wasn't for Yellow Devil this would be a great stage. Yellow Devil is a weird mechanic, almost no one attacks him, most people ignore him, which is ridiculous since he hits so hard and hits everything in front of him. Basically the optimal strategy is to dodge him or stay behind him.[/collapse]
[collapse=FE Arena:]
Platforms change every now and then. Old platforms leave and new ones come in. The stage is a walk off though.[/collapse]
I can't remember the other ones right now.[/collapse]
[collapse=Characters:]
[collapse=Veterans]
[collapse=Mario:]
Mario is as far as I can tell unchanged. I only played as Mario once (one 2 minute match) so I might still not have much experience with him. None of his attacks were changed. His overall mechanics (pertaining to the new game) seem to be about what they should be in the new game with the new physics.[/collapse]
[collapse=Link:]
Link feels much faster than in Brawl. His new dash attack is much, much better than his previous. His Up-B travels greater range, meaning he has a better recovery. His Down-Air has much less land lag, this is the move I tried to L-Cancel with (spoilers: couldn't), still the move has fairly low lag compared to previous games (compared to Melee's not L-Cancelled Down Air). Up Air has a new animation and comes out quicker for what I could tell. Link didn't feel as much of a rock in this game compared to other characters. (He probably falls about the same speed he did before, but since everyone is falling faster he feels less of a rock).[/collapse]
[collapse=Samus:]
Didn't actually get to play Samus, can't really tell much except that she seems much faster from watching her.[/collapse]
[collapse=DK:]
DK has a new down B in the air. He slaps twice downwards, it seems to meteor/spike. DK also has a new dash attack. It's much faster than his previous dash attack, it also has much better range. I only played DK once so I cannot tell how much different he is than before, that said, I seemed to lack range on most of my attacks. I kept whiffing attacks I expected to hit based on Brawl. DK fans take this cheek in hand, I don't play DK in any game and I only played it once in the demo, I might be wrong on my assumptions.[/collapse]
[collapse=Zelda:]
Zelda's new phantom feels and looks awesome, but I am afraid it might be a little underwhelming. The phantom itself has great range and attacks as soon as someone is in range of his sword (basically spaces the enemy), but most hits destroy him, so characters with projectiles will basically destroy it instantly. It comes out very fast but since its charged your opponent will know its coming and either dodge it or destroy it. If on the other hand you don't charge it then it probably won't reach anywhere. Zelda still has all of her moves and they work exactly as they did in Melee/Brawl. She still has her super heels sweepspot on her aerials and it feels even better than before to land. Some players will be happy to know the game doesn't freeze anymore when you land an electric sweepspot (Meaning your opponent doesn't get free seconds to DI). Up-Smash killed Mario at 90% in the Boxing Ring. Heel seems stronger than Brawl although probably less so than Melee.[/collapse]
[collapse=Bowser:]
Bowser seems faster overall. Most of his moves have some new animation or visual but they feel like they are the same. In that way Bowser feels like a completely new character but playing him still feels like playing old Bowser. I am not a very good Bowser in any iteration of Smash and I didn't play him enough to say that I understand how he fares but it seems like he is better than he was before, although being better than horrible isn't that hard.[/collapse]
[/collapse]
[collapse=Newcomers]
[collapse=Little Mac]
Little Mac seems much less powerful than he was shown in the trailer. First his recovery is horrible, HORRIBLE. Its worse than Falco's was in Melee, seriously. His Side-B can be used as a recovery move, but when done in the air it doesn't actually move you, it basically helps you a little more than Marth's side-B helps his recovery, and this is the "better" option from his recoveries. That aside, almost all of his moves actually become worse in the air. His specials change and lose all the range they had, his aerials are slow and have no range. He hits very hard while on the ground but the problem is that in an FFA someone is bound to hit you while you are fighting someone else and being hit means going into the air which means being screwed.
His mechanic works with damage. It has 10 arrows, an arrow fills every certain % you take or deal. Here's the kicker: it resets on death. If you do not hit an opponent, you will normally get the 1 hit KO around 80-95%. What this means is that if someone is totally flooring you, you will basically get 1 chance for a comeback. On the other hand when playing an even match you will be getting this 1 hit KO around the 50-60% mark which means your opponent will also be around that % and getting a hard to land 1 hit KO move isn't that big of a deal. The other scenario is a Little Mac devastating an opponent and basically getting an extra free KO, but if you can deal more than 150-190% damage on a single stock while taking minimal damage then I don't think a simple 1 hit KO is much of a big deal.[/collapse]
[collapse=Greninja]
Greninja moves fast. He runs fast, he "flies" fast, he fast falls really fast. Some of his moves feel laggier than they look. Basically it would seem as if the end lag is less than what it actually is. Now that doesn't mean Greninja is slow, its just he feels slower than you expect. His Up-B is weird, it works like Pikachu's but many people had problems guiding it. His Shuriken cannot be held at all. It releases intantly on full charge. His Down-B is substitute, it works exactly as a counter but you can "sort of" direction where Greninja comes from. I say sort of because I have no idea if you can actually tell Greninja where to come from or if its just random, but he does it from different directions everytime. The substitute actually stays in the stage! Like for a ridiculous amount of time. It stayed for so long the Greninja actually died came back and the substitute ONLY left because someone kicked it out of the stage with a dash attack. It doesn't seem like it has a hit box, so it works like a waddle dee that doesn't jump basically.
Greninjas Side-B is very interesting. Its the first ability I know that does not activate on press but instead activates on release. How so? Well when you press side-B Greninja starts "charging" the side-B, but he doesn't actually show it. The opponent sees nothing, knows nothing. While charging Greninja looks exactly as he looks if he wasn't charging it, Greninja can also move, run, jump, everything BUT attack or shield. Once Greninja releases the B button he will perform the side-B. Greninja has a slight moment to input the direction he wants the side-B to travel. The distance Greninja travels depends on how long he charged the ability.[/collapse]
[/collapse]
[/collapse]
I am also in the process of uploading some video. I have about 2 hours of gameplay on video, but more than half of it is completely unwatchable due to glare and stuff. I am currently weeding out the videos that can be seen and uploading them on youtube.
Update:
Here is my new youtube channel. I am currently uploading videos 1 by 1. I will probably upload around 20+ videos I think (and some have several matches) so go and check them out while I finish doing all this other stuff xD.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCttG16jT_EvO9Z2LbBXvp_g
Update2:
Yes I know I have a terrible pulse. My hands are always shaking a bit (so the video will be a bit shaky) and I can't quite stop them from doing that, sorry about that in advanced.
After I finish uploading everything I will do that youtube thing that takes away the "shakyness"
Update3:
i have footage of M2K, Armada, HBox, Zero and others playing. I'll upload it as soon as I get home.
Update: Currently uploading videos!
[collapse=Demos]
The Wii U's instantly loaded on the Smash Demo, no loading screen or anything. The first screen said: Press A and then it went directly into character select screen, nothing in between. 20 characters (you all know them), 8 stages (Battlefield, Town and City, SMB, FE Arena thing, Pilotwings, Wily's Castle, Boxing Ring and some other I can't remember).
The 3DS version had a whole new 8 stages (except for battlefield which was shared) and had 4 different characters! Rosalina is replaced by Luigi. Olimar is replaced by Yoshi. Zelda is replaced by Sheik. Link is replaced by Toon Link.
The rules for the demos are 2 games per person. (Then you go back in line). The games are 2 minute FFAs, items on medium, random stage. First match is a "practice match". 2nd match is betting a special edition smash tshirt.
[collapse=Controls:]
The C-Stick now charges! What?! Yes you heard correctly. If you leave the C-Stick tilted it will charge the smash. Also for Brawl fans, you can still tilt by smashing in the same direction you have your control stick on.
Control options were only gamecube. There was 0 option for any other type of control. In fact the demo had 3 screens teaching you how to play with the gamecube controller. One before Smash loaded. One while the match was loading and one while the match ended (and the character select screen was loading). This programming for the demo implies Gamecube controllers will also be used for Best Buy Demos.
[/collapse]
[/collapse]
[collapse=Items:]
[collapse=Final Smashes:]
I saw every final Smash except for Yoshi's, Sonic's and Toon Link's. I can confirm all final smashes (that I saw) remain the same except for ZSS, Luigi and Pit. Luigi and Pit were already known, ZSS was shown at the invitational. [/collapse]
[collapse=Assist Trophies]
I just remembered something new. Assist trophies are attackable!!! I am not sure if they all are but most of them are. That reminds me, remember that Midna assist trophy that killed like 3 of our pro players? Yea, you can just jab it every 4 to 5 seconds and it will never attack. Attacking Midna actually stops her attack, so just jabbing it a few times every now and then renders it useless. Obviously you can't be looking at Midna to jab her everytime she is going to attack, but I saw some of the players trying to block her (she grabs), trying to dodge her (it has a lasting hit box, can't dodge it) completely unaware that you could just jab her and be done with it.
If you hit an assist trophy enough you can kill them (they fall off sort of like Mario in the SNES Marios, they just fall off through the floor).
[/collapse]
[collapse=Non-Working Items:]
Fairy Bottle: definitely not working. In the demo it was doing the exact same thing Mr. Saturn does in previous games. The bottle wouldn't open, you can just throw it around. I tried throwing it into the ground and even throwing a bob-omb on it, nothing worked.
Banana Peel: Banana peels either weren't working or were changed. The bananas now only trip on hit and only on the first hit at that. If you throw a banana peel into the ground it will not trip anyone. If you throw it at someone, hit a 1st target and it bounces and hits a 2nd target, the 2nd target won't trip either. Only the very first hit will trip a player.[/collapse]
[collapse=Changed items:]
As far as I could tell, no returning item was changed in its effect.[/collapse]
[collapse=New items:]
Blue Shell: Homes in from above on the player with the highest score. After a while it drops on them. The player can easily avoid it by moving. When it collides with a player it creates an explosion which damages all players in range.
Fairy: Not working.
Windwaker Wind Thing: Works like an instant Mario FLUDD that you can move while using. It allows you to get your opponent out of the stage really quickly but won't do much after that.
Steeldiver: Raygun which explodes send opponent in an upwards manner instead of sideways.
Tanooki Leaf: Gives the player an extended version of Peach's ability to float.
Ogre Club: Hits hard and summons a whirldwind which travels incredibly slow and doesn't hit that hard.
Fire Bar: Hits hard and really fast. Its basically a much faster and longer version of the beam sword but with limited uses.
Can't remember the others right now.[/collapse][/collapse]
[collapse=Stages:]
[collapse=Battlefield:]
What you see is what you get.[/collapse]
[collapse=Town and City:]
The stage through me up a little. Platforms leave suddenly and incredibly fast. I was standing in a platform and I died because of how fast they left. That said the stage has a set path pattern. So it isn't random. Once you know when the platforms leave, you can prepare for that and not stand on a platform like I was. [/collapse]
[collapse=SMB:]
Seemed kind of weird. Icicles kept dropping at one point. Didn't really think too much about it.[/collapse]
[collapse=Boxing Ring:]
This level gets tiring fast. Its a boring level. Ceiling is incredibly high and its a walk off so the only way to kill is through the sides. The stage itself sort of disrupts fights because of the edges canceling attacks and making you bounce high in the air.[/collapse]
[collapse=Wily's Castle:]
The most popular stage in all senses of the word. Seems like a good stage. Platforms appear every now and then. If it wasn't for Yellow Devil this would be a great stage. Yellow Devil is a weird mechanic, almost no one attacks him, most people ignore him, which is ridiculous since he hits so hard and hits everything in front of him. Basically the optimal strategy is to dodge him or stay behind him.[/collapse]
[collapse=FE Arena:]
Platforms change every now and then. Old platforms leave and new ones come in. The stage is a walk off though.[/collapse]
I can't remember the other ones right now.[/collapse]
[collapse=Characters:]
[collapse=Veterans]
[collapse=Mario:]
Mario is as far as I can tell unchanged. I only played as Mario once (one 2 minute match) so I might still not have much experience with him. None of his attacks were changed. His overall mechanics (pertaining to the new game) seem to be about what they should be in the new game with the new physics.[/collapse]
[collapse=Link:]
Link feels much faster than in Brawl. His new dash attack is much, much better than his previous. His Up-B travels greater range, meaning he has a better recovery. His Down-Air has much less land lag, this is the move I tried to L-Cancel with (spoilers: couldn't), still the move has fairly low lag compared to previous games (compared to Melee's not L-Cancelled Down Air). Up Air has a new animation and comes out quicker for what I could tell. Link didn't feel as much of a rock in this game compared to other characters. (He probably falls about the same speed he did before, but since everyone is falling faster he feels less of a rock).[/collapse]
[collapse=Samus:]
Didn't actually get to play Samus, can't really tell much except that she seems much faster from watching her.[/collapse]
[collapse=DK:]
DK has a new down B in the air. He slaps twice downwards, it seems to meteor/spike. DK also has a new dash attack. It's much faster than his previous dash attack, it also has much better range. I only played DK once so I cannot tell how much different he is than before, that said, I seemed to lack range on most of my attacks. I kept whiffing attacks I expected to hit based on Brawl. DK fans take this cheek in hand, I don't play DK in any game and I only played it once in the demo, I might be wrong on my assumptions.[/collapse]
[collapse=Zelda:]
Zelda's new phantom feels and looks awesome, but I am afraid it might be a little underwhelming. The phantom itself has great range and attacks as soon as someone is in range of his sword (basically spaces the enemy), but most hits destroy him, so characters with projectiles will basically destroy it instantly. It comes out very fast but since its charged your opponent will know its coming and either dodge it or destroy it. If on the other hand you don't charge it then it probably won't reach anywhere. Zelda still has all of her moves and they work exactly as they did in Melee/Brawl. She still has her super heels sweepspot on her aerials and it feels even better than before to land. Some players will be happy to know the game doesn't freeze anymore when you land an electric sweepspot (Meaning your opponent doesn't get free seconds to DI). Up-Smash killed Mario at 90% in the Boxing Ring. Heel seems stronger than Brawl although probably less so than Melee.[/collapse]
[collapse=Bowser:]
Bowser seems faster overall. Most of his moves have some new animation or visual but they feel like they are the same. In that way Bowser feels like a completely new character but playing him still feels like playing old Bowser. I am not a very good Bowser in any iteration of Smash and I didn't play him enough to say that I understand how he fares but it seems like he is better than he was before, although being better than horrible isn't that hard.[/collapse]
[/collapse]
[collapse=Newcomers]
[collapse=Little Mac]
Little Mac seems much less powerful than he was shown in the trailer. First his recovery is horrible, HORRIBLE. Its worse than Falco's was in Melee, seriously. His Side-B can be used as a recovery move, but when done in the air it doesn't actually move you, it basically helps you a little more than Marth's side-B helps his recovery, and this is the "better" option from his recoveries. That aside, almost all of his moves actually become worse in the air. His specials change and lose all the range they had, his aerials are slow and have no range. He hits very hard while on the ground but the problem is that in an FFA someone is bound to hit you while you are fighting someone else and being hit means going into the air which means being screwed.
His mechanic works with damage. It has 10 arrows, an arrow fills every certain % you take or deal. Here's the kicker: it resets on death. If you do not hit an opponent, you will normally get the 1 hit KO around 80-95%. What this means is that if someone is totally flooring you, you will basically get 1 chance for a comeback. On the other hand when playing an even match you will be getting this 1 hit KO around the 50-60% mark which means your opponent will also be around that % and getting a hard to land 1 hit KO move isn't that big of a deal. The other scenario is a Little Mac devastating an opponent and basically getting an extra free KO, but if you can deal more than 150-190% damage on a single stock while taking minimal damage then I don't think a simple 1 hit KO is much of a big deal.[/collapse]
[collapse=Greninja]
Greninja moves fast. He runs fast, he "flies" fast, he fast falls really fast. Some of his moves feel laggier than they look. Basically it would seem as if the end lag is less than what it actually is. Now that doesn't mean Greninja is slow, its just he feels slower than you expect. His Up-B is weird, it works like Pikachu's but many people had problems guiding it. His Shuriken cannot be held at all. It releases intantly on full charge. His Down-B is substitute, it works exactly as a counter but you can "sort of" direction where Greninja comes from. I say sort of because I have no idea if you can actually tell Greninja where to come from or if its just random, but he does it from different directions everytime. The substitute actually stays in the stage! Like for a ridiculous amount of time. It stayed for so long the Greninja actually died came back and the substitute ONLY left because someone kicked it out of the stage with a dash attack. It doesn't seem like it has a hit box, so it works like a waddle dee that doesn't jump basically.
Greninjas Side-B is very interesting. Its the first ability I know that does not activate on press but instead activates on release. How so? Well when you press side-B Greninja starts "charging" the side-B, but he doesn't actually show it. The opponent sees nothing, knows nothing. While charging Greninja looks exactly as he looks if he wasn't charging it, Greninja can also move, run, jump, everything BUT attack or shield. Once Greninja releases the B button he will perform the side-B. Greninja has a slight moment to input the direction he wants the side-B to travel. The distance Greninja travels depends on how long he charged the ability.[/collapse]
[/collapse]
[/collapse]
I am also in the process of uploading some video. I have about 2 hours of gameplay on video, but more than half of it is completely unwatchable due to glare and stuff. I am currently weeding out the videos that can be seen and uploading them on youtube.
Update:
Here is my new youtube channel. I am currently uploading videos 1 by 1. I will probably upload around 20+ videos I think (and some have several matches) so go and check them out while I finish doing all this other stuff xD.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCttG16jT_EvO9Z2LbBXvp_g
Update2:
Yes I know I have a terrible pulse. My hands are always shaking a bit (so the video will be a bit shaky) and I can't quite stop them from doing that, sorry about that in advanced.
After I finish uploading everything I will do that youtube thing that takes away the "shakyness"
Update3:
i have footage of M2K, Armada, HBox, Zero and others playing. I'll upload it as soon as I get home.
Last edited:
. There may be giving Tshirts to the winners of every game. If they are, make sure you win 
Like how his vB has super armor, I knew how his arrows worked back before the E3 direct, and he even has a new aerial which we now know is his fair from the tournament. Say, see any aerial vBs from Pit? If not, I know the very first thing I'm doing tomorrow.
?
