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Rate their Chances: the DLC Edition. Day: 192: The final day

Laniv

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
2,281
Sora:

Chance: 1.5%
Legal trouble with Disney and Square Enix hinders him.

Want: Abstain


Black Mage:

Chance: 22%
Slightly better off than Sora, but that's not saying much.

Want: 95%
If any Square Enix, him (her?) or someone from Dragon Quest.

Predictions for Tingle: 5% Chance, 72% Want
Predictions for Homecoming Hijinx: 2% Chance, 46% Want

Nominate Savvy Stylist x 5
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Sora

Chance: 0%

  • Sora doesn't have much association with Nintendo since none of the mainline Kingdom Hearts games have been on Nintendo platforms as of this post.
  • Sakurai/Nintendo would not only have to obtain the license to use Sora, but possibly also other Disney properties considering one of the Kingdom Hearts series' main appeals is visiting various Disney universes and meeting their respective characters. If that doesn't seem like more of a hassle than what it's worth already, Sora doesn't seem to have much ballot support compared to others, so all that time, money, and effort spent would probably be wasted on one character if Sora joined the fray.
  • Speaking of support, Sora was highly requested for PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale, but he didn't make the cut. In fact, Sora hasn't appeared outside of the Kingdom Hearts series at all.

Want: 0%

No offense to Sora's supporters, but I don't have interest in seeing him in Smash.

Black Mage

Chance: 2%

He's the closest the Final Fantasy series has to a big icon associated with Nintendo, but he's owned by the stingy Square Enix.

Want: 75%

Predictions:

Tingle - 2.5%
Homecoming Hijinx - 3.5%

Nomination: Young Link x5
 
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Geno Boost

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
4,398
Location
Star Hill. Why do you ask?
(of course @ Geno Boost Geno Boost will shot down any other Square Enix character that's not named Geno even these guys Black Mage more so, than Sora has also been requested for years too.)
i will give Black mage a better chance or other square enix characters if they were requested alot as Geno because they are way far from him and it shows that alot of Final fantasy fans and Dragon quest fans doesnt really care about thier characters if they will be in smash or not
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
The Directory has been updated.

Sora
Chance:
0%

I will copy over what I said in the last RTC because it still holds true.
Let me list out why Sora wouldn't get in Smash:
1. Sora may have his fans as they would demand for him to get in Smash, but this demand failed in PlayStation All-Stars: Battle Royale. What will change here?
2. Sora is more of a Sony character than a Nintendo character. Yes, you have three titles on Nintendo handhelds, but none of the main iterations are on Nintendo consoles. Kingdom Hearts 3 isn't coming to the Wii U.
3. Sora's fan demand is NOTHING compared to the demand of Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Snake, Bomberman, Simon Belmont, and Layton. He's just small fry compared to them.
4. This is Square Enix we are talking about here and they are strict. Why would they choose Sora over characters like Slime, Black Mage, or Moogle?
5. Square Enix doesn't really have a relationship with Nintendo. They seem very distant from them; I highly doubt this will change now.
6. One of the main appeals of Kingdom Hearts are the Disney characters. Getting Sora in Smash would be more work than it's worth since they would have to get the rights to various Square Enix characters and Disney characters.
7. Speaking of Disney, if you are going to get the rights to their characters, wouldn't it be more wise if you added Mickey Mouse instead? It sounds weird yes, but he could be more profitable than Sora.
EDIT: 8. Sakurai said that 3rd party characters are special cases that are in leagues of their own. Is it safe to call Sora legendary yet? I have a hard time putting him next to Sonic, Mega Man, and Snake, all of which are legendary 3rd parties in Smash. Even then, Bomberman, Pac-Man, and Simon Belmont are more legendary than him.
I have stated my reasons. Sora has no reason to get into Smash.
Just also add in the fact that his ballot support is limited, the fact that Ryu is more legendary than Sora, and some info might be slightly outdated.

Want: -100% (0%)
Yes. Another negative.
I am tired of when I see this guy get requested for Smash. Do I hate the character? No. (but he is a freaking idiot, failing to save a girl who is two feet in front of him) It's just completely stupid and highly illogical. He would just take up too much time for reasons stated above that the time used to develop other characters would go to getting Sora and other Disney characters.
Sora… just stay away from Smash Bros.!
Black Mage
Chance:
0%

No ballot support and Square is a hard company to negotiate with.

Want: 50%
I'm kinda OK with this choice.

Tingle Prediction: 1.47%
A hated character that is also an Assist Trophy.
Homecoming Hijinx Prediction: 4.83%
Dunno.

Nominations: Young Link 5x
 

Roaring Salsa

A dragon never yields
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Messages
2,049
Location
Courtroom No. 4
Sora
Chance: 0.1%
Wait...if Sora is owned by Disney, why do I feel even he has a bigger chance of appearing?


Want: Abstain

Black Mage
Chance: 5%
Probably the likeliest Final Fantasy we'll get in Smash, but Square Enix still remains as a company hard to negotiate with.

Want: 15%
Not too interested and I don't really want too many 3rd parties.

Nominations
Isabelle x5
 

MacDaddyNook

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
1,197
Sora's Chance: 15%

When it comes to Smash Bros candidates, Sora doesn't stand out as much as many others mentioned around here. However, Disney has stated that they want to have Mario and Mickey meet, to which Nintendo seemed unopposed to, which could lead to some sort of deal that could bring Sora to Smash. Throw in the inclusion of Nintendo characters in Disney's current direct gaming competitor, Skylanders, which again, could lead to some form of deals made. It's still not at all likely, but I wouldn't say he's impossible. Of course, I by far expect Sora more to appear in Disney Infinity than Smash Bros.

Sora's Want: Abstain
I love Disney but I'm not sure if I feel it belongs in Smash Bros. Now if there was a SSB-style game with Disney, Pixar, Marvel and Lucasfilm characters in it, I'd be throwing my dollars to it on day one.

----------

Black Mage's Chance: 40%
If Square-Enix were to include a character, it'd be the Black Mage. It's iconic and recognizable, and would be a nice change to the standard sword-wielding RPG characters. Unfortunately, the fan support doesn't seem to be too strong, so I'd say the chances are better for Smash Bros 5.

Black Mage's Want: 80%
I would love to see Mage included as a character with Black, White, Red and Blue mages being the different alts ala Bowser Jr. It would be cool to see some sort of "Level Up" system in place in which the Mage gains experience by fighting and get stronger stats and spells as that particular stock life lasts, with everything reverting to the base level upon the Mage being KOed. It'd be a fun, unique character with something that not only stands out but is true to the source material as well.
 

FancySmash

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
1,136
Location
The elegant battlefield.
Sora

Chance
.1% - Sora... has relatively no chance at Smash to be honest. Sora is property of Disney, and Square Enix has some rights to him as well. We've all gone over the "Sonic/Mega Man/Pac-Man/Ryu" thing by now, that all of them are extremely iconic, and have the merit to make it into Smash, not to mention the history with Nintendo. Sora, as far as I'm concerned, doesn't have this, and will be extremely difficult to obtain.

Want
0% - ...What? I'm sorry, I can't help it if he doesn't really appeal to me. I'm not heartless, honest! Look, Sora just doesn't appeal to me, and even if, IF, Disney were to miraculously give the rights for a character, we'd all almost be certain of it being their flagship Mickey Mouse.
...
or in my wildest pipe dream, Scrooge McDuck.

Black Mage

Chance
15% - Honestly, if we were to be given a Square Enix Rep, it wouldn't be Slime, it wouldn't be Geno, it wouldn't be Bub/Bob, it wouldn't be Crono, and it wouldn't be Sora. It would be this fellow. Black Mage. Honestly, the best chance of a Square Enix character.

Want
80% - Honestly, I wouldn't mind this in the slightest. Hey, I'm not even a fan of the Final Fantasy series, but... there's something charming about Black Mage. I can't quite tell what it is, but, I look at him and just like him for some reason. Maybe because in the RPG world, so many characters kinda look... generic. All following the same design (I.E. Sora follows it), but Black Mage, him with that cloak just says "no." He's different, kinda reminds me of Meta Knight actually... (Gee, wonder why :laugh:)

Predictions
Tingle - 2%
Homecoming Hijinx - 53% - A good shot this might be included with K. Rool when he's added... what? Isn't K. Rool obvious at this point?

Nominations:
Eggman X5
 

Zerp

Formerly "ZeroSoul"
Administrator
Writing Team
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
4,678
Location
South Carolina
Sora:

This is probably the first time where I can say with a honest heart that I give a Doble Cero.
Sora has virtually no chance, he's a Square Enix and Disney rep, a legal nightmare so to speak, and his character doesn't interest me at all, he has a keyblade, so what? I don't see how that makes him so special, and he gets on my nerves for some reason, so yeah, I wouldn't be happy that Sakurai went to all this trouble to get this guy, if he's going to go that far into some legal nightmares might as well go get Geno instead.
Black Mage:

Chances: 5% Square Enix's most likely rep, he's starred in many crossovers with Mario and has a lot of moveset potential, I think he's the sleeper of the third parties.

Want: 75% He's very unique and I liked playing as him in super Smash Flash 2 so I don't see why I wouldn't here. Also, his design is all kinds of awesome, so that's a plus too.
Predictions: Tingle 6% Homecoming Hijinxes 20%
Nominations: Waluigi x 5
 

Double0Groove

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
667
I've read it all and of your arguments come down to "Legally, it's mot impossible."
First, I'd like to thank you for reading my argument, really appreciate it.
Anyway, it's not what it's boiling down to, that's what it flat out is. To be fair, legal arguments are the only arguments that are ever used against Sora, everything else literally comes up after I prove those legal arguments false, and because this is the main reason as to why Sora's support based dwindled down considerably before KH3, it's only obvious that I exclusively tackle this issue.


But what does Sora have to offer to make Sakurai get these rights?

Why would Sakurai pick Sora and go through legal hoops, instead of picking a Nintendo character like K. Rool or Captain Toad and make more fans happy?
I'd like to say popular demand, but I'm not so dumb as to think that he's anywhere near as popular a pick as King K. Rool( Captain Toad is another story though). Even if these legal arguments didn't make a difference in his initial support group it's quite clear that King K. has taken Ridley's popularity spot.
 

WeirdChillFever

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2014
Messages
6,592
Location
Somewhere Out There
First, I'd like to thank you for reading my argument, really appreciate it.
Anyway, it's not what it's boiling down to, that's what it flat out is. To be fair, legal arguments are the only arguments that are ever used against Sora, everything else literally comes up after I prove those legal arguments false, and because this is the main reason as to why Sora's support based dwindled down considerably before KH3, it's only obvious that I exclusively tackle this issue.



I'd like to say popular demand, but I'm not so dumb as to think that he's anywhere near as popular a pick as King K. Rool( Captain Toad is another story though). Even if these legal arguments didn't make a difference in his initial support group it's quite clear that King K. has taken Ridley's popularity spot.
Yeah, as far as counterarguments go, legal issues are the most logical to tackle.

No, I'm not saying his support is near K. Rool's, I just asked why Sora specifically would be chosen instead of a first party character, or even another third party like Layton.

So Sora's main draw is his support?
Could you give me any indication on how big that support is?
Poll positions or just a guess?
 

BluePikmin11

Akko is my dear daughter!
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28,373
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https://twitter.com/BPikmin11
NNID
blue
Sora Chance:
15%
He's from pretty well known series, highly requested among casuals, and has some pretty cool potential for a moveset.
(Super Smash Flash 2 demonstrates this greatly, with him being a combo oriented character.)

At the least, he isn't owned by another competitor like Microsoft and Sony to make him near impossible. Disney isn't in any competition against Nintendo. There are plenty of examples of Disney and Nintendo partnering up to promote their games. Notably this game here:

(Magical World is also getting a sequel too by the way, which was announced a month ago.)

Rest assured, if Sakurai wanted Sora in Smash, Disney and Nintendo would probably work out the deal pretty nicely. So would Square, as there are many examples of them teaming up to make their games, notably Super Mario RPG, Fortune Street, most of the Dragon Quests, and Mario 3 on 3 hoops. I feel like we may be overexaggerating the strictness of Square. If anyone can give a legitimate amount of proof that Square is strict, then I will change my mind.
For now, I think Sora has an ok shot in getting in Smash.

Black Mage Chance:
10%
Some of the things I said about Sora apply to his chances too:
1. Highly recognized series
2. Moveset potential (Again Super Smash Flash 2 demonstrates this)
3. Close relationship with Square.

Only he's far less requested than Sora himself, which makes slightly him less likely that Black Mage would be considered.

x5 Unpopular DLC Newcomer
 
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Yomi's Biggest Fan

See You Next Year, Baby
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
26,203
Location
Chicago, Illinois
NNID
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3DS FC
1375-7346-9605
Switch FC
SW-8277-6509-2593
Sora

Chance: 4%

A popular and requested third/forth-party character, but has problems because his owners and doesn't have so much Nintendo connection. Plus, Disney clearly didn't want Square to make Dissidia a Kingdom hearts fighter since they do not want their characters in violent situations (Which is contradicted by the fact that Ralph can be blown up in Sonic & All Stars Racing Transformed). So I can realistically imagine them being equally as stingy when it comes to Smash if Square doesn't have the say in it.

Want: 35%

Like him in the Kingdom Hearts franchise and his play style in Super Smash Flash 2, but I'd prefer Mage over him because Final Fantasy is much more iconic to be in Smash. Then there's the fact that Disney would have to be involved and reference a lot of 4th party material in Smash instead of going for their original creations.

Black Mage

Chance: 10%

Black Mage is a decently popular character who some agree might be the best choice to represent Square in case Slime might be too generic. He's a Black Mage (duh) meaning that he can represent the magical side of the franchise and at least had some connections to Nintendo than a certain emo swordsman with his Mario crossovers. Even though there more popular characters out there that appears in media like Dissidia and the "Dark Age of Final Fantasy", many may recognize him as that kickass fighter from Super Smash Flash 2 or that funny mage from 8-Bit Theatre.

The only true flaws I can name would be minimal ballot support in comparison to Slime and Sora. Hell, even TV Tropes made a subsection dedicated to him on the Broken Base page for Smash since there are some fans who wouldn't want to follow the trend of cartoony mascots in Smash or would rather have realistic characters like Lara Croft. Then there's the fact that Square is pretty stingy with their own characters,which I'd rather not explain again with the other Square characters we've rated.

Want: 85%

The first Final Fantasy games on Nintendo platforms will always be the best in my eyes (Suck on that Cloud Strife and Lightning!) and Mage was one of the more useful party members in my group. Plus the Black Mage class is one of my favorite class types in various Final Fantasy titles due to their usage of offensive magic spells. Been a Black Mage main in SSF2 since 2011 and I would be honored to have him in Smash with the other iconic gaming heroes.

Predictions: Tingle and Homecoming Hijinx

Tingle Chance: 3%
Homecoming Hijinx: 3%

Nominations:

Style Savvy x5
 
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
630
Location
Chicago
NNID
Majorasmask66
Sora

Chance: 3%

Want: 15%

Black Mage

Chance: 2%

Want: 20%

Predictions

Tingle: 1%

Nominations

Hades x5
 
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YoshiandToad

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
7,123
Location
Still up Peach's dress.
Sora
Chance: 1%

Popular, but has legal issues. But Sora is likely one of the forerunners for Square if they're going for advertisment...unless Lightning appeared in a new game again.

Want: 0%
Honestly? I'd rather have Mickey Mouse if we're getting someone related to Disney. Mickey Vs. Mario would be hype as hell being two of the biggest iconic characters on the planet.

Black Mage
Chance: 1%

Not voted enough most likely, but still the most likely of the Square characters to cross over with Mario and friends again on account of being pretty much a mascot of the Final Fantasy series.

Want: 8%

The least offensive Square option available at least in my eyes, but doesn't crack my personal top five 3rd party wants.
If he got in, I'd probably be fine with him.
 

Double0Groove

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
667
Yeah, as far as counterarguments go, legal issues are the most logical to tackle.

No, I'm not saying his support is near K. Rool's, I just asked why Sora specifically would be chosen instead of a first party character, or even another third party like Layton.

So Sora's main draw is his support?
Could you give me any indication on how big that support is?
Poll positions or just a guess?
The way I gauge a character's popularity is by looking for comments that actively promotes their inclusion and Sora had a pretty great following in the beginning. But currently, the support is less than desirable to say the least.

Sora has virtually no chance, he's a Square Enix and Disney rep, a legal nightmare so to speak, and his character doesn't interest me at all, he has a keyblade, so what? I don't see how that makes him so special, and he gets on my nerves for some reason, so yeah, I wouldn't be happy that Sakurai went to all this trouble to get this guy, if he's going to go that far into some legal nightmares might as well go get Geno instead.
What I said:

"Sora is owned by Square Enix and Disney, even if they weren't strict with their IPs, Nintendo wouldn't want to pay two different organizations for just one character"
- This is a simple enough mistake to make as the Kingdom Hearts series has always been promoted to be a crossover between Disney's multiple franchises and the Final Fantasy series. But Sora is indeed owned by just Disney. Evidence of this are as follows: 1. "© Disney Developed by SQUARE ENIX" a copyright claim that can be found on both the official case for every Kingdom Hearts game( specifically on the back near the bottom) and in all of the official web pages for the series. For those of you who don't know, this simply means that Kingdom Hearts is a series that Square Enix is allowed to develop, but doesn't own( much like how Koie Tecmo and Capcom were allowe to develop Legend of Zelda games). 2. Disney had a Kingdom Hearts game made called "Kingdom Hearts V-cast". This game starred Sora, had no Final Fantasy characters featured, and Square Enix was completely unaware of it's development, further proving that Sora is their character.
Sora

Chance: 4%

A popular and requested third/forth-party character, but has problems because his owners and doesn't have so much Nintendo connection. Plus, Disney clearly didn't want Square to make Dissidia a Kingdom hearts fighter since they do not want their characters in violent situations (Which is contradicted by the fact that Ralph can be blown up in Sonic & All Stars Racing Transformed). So I can realistically imagine them being equally as stingy when it comes to Smash if Square doesn't have the say in it.
What I said:

"Disney wouldn't wan't any of their characters in a fighting game, they prevented Square Enix from making Kingdom Hearts Dissidia."
-No they didn't, I've thoroughly searched high and low for an article that verifies this and the only one I've ever found that "confirmed" the info sourced another article that didn't make that claim. As it stands, this is just a false statement.
Sora
Chance:
0%

I will copy over what I said in the last RTC because it still holds true.
No it doesn't most of what you said never held true.
"1. Sora may have his fans as they would demand for him to get in Smash, but this demand failed in PlayStation All-Stars: Battle Royale. What will change here?"
The fact that Disney has more of a known connection with Nintendo than they did with Sony during that time.

"2. Sora is more of a Sony character than a Nintendo character. Yes, you have three titles on Nintendo handhelds, but none of the main iterations are on Nintendo consoles. Kingdom Hearts 3 isn't coming to the Wii U."
No console support =/= no Nintendo support, Nintendo has acknowledged the series enough to personally interview the game's developer, and it's been made quite clear that if there was a reason as to why
a third party character doesn't make it in, it wouldn't be because of a Nintendo related reason.
"4. This is Square Enix we are talking about here and they are strict. Why would they choose Sora over characters like Slime, Black Mage, or Moogle?"
Disney owns Sora, not Square Enix. I'd also like to add that this is still the most contradictory argument I've ever read in my life. It's like saying "Hey, there's no way I'd give you this pretty popular character because he's popular, so let me give you this other more popular character instead!"
"5. Square Enix doesn't really have a relationship with Nintendo. They seem very distant from them; I highly doubt this will change now."
I don't know where you got that from. Not that it matters because Sora is owned by Disney

"6. One of the main appeals of Kingdom Hearts are the Disney characters. Getting Sora in Smash would be more work than it's worth since they would have to get the rights to various Square Enix characters and Disney characters."

"7. Speaking of Disney, if you are going to get the rights to their characters, wouldn't it be more wise if you added Mickey Mouse instead? It sounds weird yes, but he could be more profitable than Sora."
Yes, but he is less requested and as such would most likley not happen.

"8. Sakurai said that 3rd party characters are special cases that are in leagues of their own. Is it safe to call Sora legendary yet? I have a hard time putting him next to Sonic, Mega Man, and Snake, all of which are legendary 3rd parties in Smash. Even then, Bomberman, Pac-Man, and Simon Belmont are more legendary than him."
Snake isn't a legend in the gaming community, he's just old with a fairly respected franchise( infact, Bomber-man has more of a legendary status to him). Simon Belmont has also only appeared in 4 games out of his entire series.
 
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Scamper52596

Smash Lord
Premium
Joined
Apr 4, 2014
Messages
1,200
Location
Florida
Sora
Chance: 0.5%
I have a hard time picturing anymore third parties making the roster as DLC after we got Ryu, but if one did I'm sure it would be either Snake or someone more requested than Sora. I'll give the Keyblade wielder a small score of 0.5%.
Maybe if Kingdom Hearts started releasing exclusively on Nintendo hardware...

Want: 0.3%
More first party characters, please.


Black Mage
Chance: 0.8%
Just copy and paste what I said about Sora. I'll give the offensive magic caster a small score of 0.8%.
It'll take a lot of magic to get this character on the roster...

Want: 0.3%
More first party characters, please.
 

H-O-G

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Messages
177
NNID
Samurai-Edge9
3DS FC
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I nominate Gunvoltx5
 

Erureido

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Messages
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NNID
Erureido
3DS FC
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Switch FC
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Sora

Chance: 5%

Sora is one of the more recognizable video game characters to come out this generation, notable for his Keyblade weapon. Unfortunately, his chances are severely limited by his third party status, as he is owned by Square Enix and Disney. However, Disney technically owns the rights to his character, so there'll be a few legal issues Nintendo would have to deal with first, not to mention Disney isn't really a video game company but rather a movie company. He also doesn't have the strongest support for a Smash Bros inclusion compared to other third party characters.

Want: Abstain

I haven't played the Kingdom Heart games before, so I don't feel any sort of connection to Sora, thus meaning I can neither support or wish against his inclusion.

Black Mage

Chance: 10%

For a Square Enix rep, he's the best bet. He is arguably the most recognizable character from the Final Fantasy series, a famous video game series that had its roots in the NES days. Being a magic user also helps him too, especially since the Smash roster lacks mages. He's also appeared in two Mario titles: Mario Hoops 3-on-3 and Mario Sports Mix. Like other Square Enix reps, however, his chances are severely hurt by his third party status and Square Enix's strict standards when it comes to third party crossovers.

Want: 70%

Although I haven't played any of the Final Fantasy games, I have played one game where the Black Mage makes an appearance: Mario Sports Mix. He's my favorite character, and I use him for every match I participate in too. I just love how he uses different magical attacks with that cool staff of his If Sakurai will consider adding him for the Square Enix rep, I hope they'll use his Sports Mix design (viewable below) for his fighter design.


Predictions
:

Tingle (Legend of Zelda): 1.98%
Homecoming Hjinx: 4.53%

Nominations:

Jean Descole (Professor Layton): x5
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
"1. Sora may have his fans as they would demand for him to get in Smash, but this demand failed in PlayStation All-Stars: Battle Royale. What will change here?"
The fact that Disney has more of a known connection with Nintendo than they did with Sony during that time.
Yes, Disney has more a connection with Nintendo, but Square has more of a connection with Sony, ya know... the people who make these games. I'm sure that they have a right to say something as well.

"2. Sora is more of a Sony character than a Nintendo character. Yes, you have three titles on Nintendo handhelds, but none of the main iterations are on Nintendo consoles. Kingdom Hearts 3 isn't coming to the Wii U."
No console support =/= no Nintendo support, Nintendo has acknowledged the series enough to personally interview the game's developer, and it's been made quite clear that if there was a reason as to why
a third party character doesn't make it in, it wouldn't be because of a Nintendo related reason.
Sora has a connection with Nintendo, but he has one more so with Sony. Nintendo has acknowledged the series existence, yes.
Also, Nintendo could play a big role in OKing whether or not characters could make it in. Who knows? They could be the reason why Snake was cut in the first place.

"7. Speaking of Disney, if you are going to get the rights to their characters, wouldn't it be more wise if you added Mickey Mouse instead? It sounds weird yes, but he could be more profitable than Sora."
Yes, but he is less requested and as such would most likley not happen.
OBJECTION!
That is not the basis of my argument!
I didn't know that Disney owned Sora, but they do, correct? Now tell me... who is more of a legend? A character who is the main protagonist of a popular video game series or an extremely recognized mascot of one of the most popular, influential companies in the world?
So, let's assume that Nintendo does ask Disney for a character. Why go to them for Sora instead of Mickey? Now I know that you said that he won't happen because he isn't requested, but what of Ryu? Who asked for him before the leaks? Sakurai once shot down fighting game characters!
Now I am not saying that Nintendo will put in Mickey Mouse or a Disney character in general, I am saying in the event of it, they would probably go for him. He would be one of the most profitable characters Nintendo could put in and one could say that Mickey Mouse is just as, if not more, legendary than Mario and Pac-Man.
So, my question is, if you had to choose between a legend and a popular video game character, I think the legend would be the more clear answer.

"8. Sakurai said that 3rd party characters are special cases that are in leagues of their own. Is it safe to call Sora legendary yet? I have a hard time putting him next to Sonic, Mega Man, and Snake, all of which are legendary 3rd parties in Smash. Even then, Bomberman, Pac-Man, and Simon Belmont are more legendary than him."
Snake isn't a legend in the gaming community, he's just old with a fairly respected franchise( infact, Bomber-man has more of a legendary status to him). Simon Belmont has also only appeared in 4 games out of his entire series.
Snake is. He is a mascot to Konami and the Metal Gear series is pretty well-known for its storytelling and stealth action.
While Simon hasn't appeared in many Castlevania games, the Belmonts are the family that appeared in the most games and Simon was the first one and is the most popular as a result. Naturally, people would ask for him.
 
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Delzethin

Character Concept Creator
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Delzethin
THE WORLD IS SQUARE

And also part Disney-owned, apparently.

--

Sora

Chance: 3.5%
The result of a crossover himself, Sora is the result of a collaboration between Square-Enix and Disney...though the character himself seems to be in Disney's hands. As a member of the ever-popular Kingdom Hearts series, one could make an argument for him being close to the iconic status of the other third party characters we've seen. And as a Keyblade wielder who also has a handful of spells and other techniques at his disposal, his inclusion in Smash would be more than just franchise lip service.

However...that's ignoring the issues he faces beforehand. To get permission for Sora, Sakurai would likely have to gain permission from Square-Enix and Disney both. We've seen an example of something where Disney went and used Sora without SE's permission...and it got on their nerves. Bringing a character into Smash without getting the all-clear from both companies behind his series...well, it wouldn't be a good idea, and therefore, aaaaall the red tape already involved with a third party character is magnified even further. Furthermore, despite the Kingdom Hearts games that've appeared on Nintendo systems, he's still primarily a Sony character, with the main games in the series being Playstation-exclusive! While Ryu hasn't done much on Nintendo lately, his Smash incarnation was heavily inspired by Street Fighter II, an old classic that was a massive success on the SNES! Sora...doesn't have anything like that on a Nintendo platform.

To say no less of how his support base has died off in the weeks after the Smash Ballot started.

I can't say he's out of the question...but you might need to wish upon a star for this one.

Want: Abstain
There's nothing wrong with him on paper, and yet for whatever reason I have such strong feelings against the guy getting into Smash that...I shouldn't give a rating for this part. It'd be in poor taste.


Black Mage

Chance: 15%
The iconic faceless sorcerer who--ironically--became the face of early Final Fantasy, and still has meaning to the series nowadays. While his home series has a handful of icons--protagonists Cecil, Terra, the Warrior of Light, and Cloud and Lightning, although their games haven't seen a Nintendo release, and the recurring Moogles and Chocobos--the Black Mage is the only one among them to have both lasting presence in the series and have a tailor made thematic niche amongst the Smash roster as a master of offensive magic. Final Fantasy's loss of presence on Nintendo systems wouldn't even hurt him, if Ryu is any indication, as he could be one giant homage to the series' early games! If Square-Enix were to get in on Smash, Black Mage would be their most likely pick.

That said, I wouldn't call him likely at this point. Though SE is on very good terms with Nintendo, something the likes of Konami and Ubisoft can't claim, they're also rather restrictive when it comes to other companies using their IPs. Bringing one of their characters--and series--into Smash for the first time though means that are optional and could easily lose them money would likely be too big a risk for them to take. As well, Black Mage hasn't held up very well in support, overshadowed by Sora's bandwagon and by everyone's favorite no-hoper, Geno...though Black Mage isn't without his share of support.

It probably won't happen with Sm4sh DLC...but I'd keep an eye on this guy when Smash 5 rolls around.

Want: 70%
Not only am I as big a fan of spellcasters as ever, I'm also a big fan of old school Final Fantasy.

I've even come across some really intriguing moveset ideas that'd help him stand out. Tying his strongest attacks to a mana meter that must be slowly regenerated? Building his A moves around variants of Fire, Thunder, and Blizzard, freeing up his specials for more varied spells like Flare, Bio, and Gravity? The mana-absorbing Osmose spell as a faster means to fill the aforementioned mana meter? Attacks that inflict the multitude of status ailments that fall under black magic in the games? How about Ultima as a Final Smash?


Tingle Prediction: 1.37%
A character who is disliked by the vast majority of the fanbase and is already a summon? Yikes. Though I'm willing to bet we'll see a couple "high" ratings from people thinking they'd add him as a troll move.

Homecoming Hijinx Music Prediction: 32.75%
Total shot in the dark. This one'll depend on how likely people thing a new Donkey Kong stage is...and how likely they think it is we'll get music outside of new stages.


Nominations: Delphox x5
 
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BandanaWaddleDee

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
1,744
Location
There
NNID
bdon25
3DS FC
1633-4187-3079
Switch FC
2967-5142-5603
Sora
Chance: 45%
Want: 100%

Black Mage
Chance: 20%
Want: 60%

Tingle Prediction: 1%
Homecoming Hijinx Prediction: 15%

Nominations:
Rerate Bandana Dee x2
Shadow x2
Leon Powalski x2
Young Cricket x2
Rerate Isaac x2
 

PrettyIvyPearls22

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Messages
781
Location
Houston, Texas
Sora
Chances: 4%
Even though Sora is popular I don't think he'd be that big of a deal. This is coming from a Kingdom Hearts fan, but, no even I don't want Sora anywhere near Smash. Sora is the result of a Disney crossover game. If we're to get him more than likely Disney too, will also get represented in Smash. I just don't want this to really happen. It'll just be a big mess, Sora would not hype me up at all I don't think any Square character would hype me to be honest. If Square were to get a character I have a feeling that Final Fantasy and maybe Dragon Quest will the be ones to get in over any other Square property because those two along with Kingdom Hearts are some of Square's biggest flagship franchises. I don't see what's the problem with those being the representatives for the company, especially since those are some of the franchises the company is known for.

Want: Abstain
Like I said I love the Kingdom Hearts franchise, but even if I love the series I don't ever want to see it anywhere near Smash. If it does more than likely will get Disney characters all over the place and just eh, no it just wouldn't feel right anymore.

Black Mage
Chance: 4%
He a bit more likely than Sora I'd say but his home series is filled with other characters that can easily represent the series. Like Cecil, Cloud, Lightning, the Warrior of Light etc. the only thing I can see Black Mage as to represent for Final Fantasy is maybe an assist trophy. Final Fantasy hasn't been prominent on Nintendo consoles as of recent but then again I also point back to :4ryu:. Then again if he does end being a character I can see them doing something like they did with PacMan and have him represent for the early days of the Final Fantasy franchise that could work. I feel if Square were to ever get represented in Smash Black Mage would probably be their best choice.

Want: 5%
Again, I don't think any Square character would hype me that much. I mean yes they are a big gaming development company that's been around just as long as Sega, Capcom, Namco-Bandai, Konami, etc. I just don't know. When it comes to Square they are also kind of weird when it comes to other developers wanting to use or borrow one of their IPs. Maybe that somewhat of a reason as to why I don't care if they ever get represented? Another is the fact, that the only Square franchises I've really ever cared about are just Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy. I've spoke my piece on Sora and even then I don't want Kingdom Hearts to get in at all. Final Fantasy on the other hand I guess can work but, eh, I don't know if it happens someday and if Square does decide to get represented in Smash maybe I'll end up changing my tune. For now Square getting represented is whatever to me.

Tingle Prediction: 10%
Tingle is an assist trophy, that most of the community kind of hates. If he ever gets in I guess he'd be good as a joke character.

Homecoming Hijinx Music Prediction: 30%
Maybe it'll depend on if we get more stages for music we've yet to hear, not sure on this one.

Nominations: Hades x5
 
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Smasher 101

Smash Lord
Joined
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1,046
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USA
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0877-3649-6314
Switch FC
SW-7628-2111-0913
Sora's chances: 0.5%
Want: 0%


Black Mage's chance: 7%
Want: 10%


Tingle prediction: 3.49%
Homecoming Hijinx prediction: 20.48%


Nominations: Sami x5
 

colder_than_ice

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 7, 2013
Messages
1,331
Sora
Chance: 2% - Double0groove did an impressive job proving that Nintendo getting the rights to Sora is not as big of a hurdle as I originally thought, enough to stop me from giving another 0% at least. My score for almost any third party character is still going to be very low regardless. The competition for a third party spot is huge and they only make up about less than 8% of the roster. I've also only seen very mediocre levels of support for Sora, not as much as I've seen for Snake, Rayman, and even some indie characters like Shantae.
Want: 10%

Black Mage
Chance: 1% - I personally don't see him as an All Star. He stands alongside Moogle and Chocobo as the cute background mascots used in merchandise while standing in the shadow of the actual Final Fantasy protagonists.
Want: 40%

Tingle prediction: 5%
Homecoming Hijinx prediction: 10%

Nominations: Azura x5

DAY OVER
PLEASE WAIT WHILE I CALCULATE THE RESULTS
 

colder_than_ice

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 7, 2013
Messages
1,331
SORA
CHANCE: 4.75
WANT: 24.33%

BLACK MAGE
CHANCE: 8.28%
WANT: 55.28%

Next up we're rating Tingle and the concept of Homecoming Hijinx music. Also please predict what score Waluigi and Sami will get tomorrow.
 
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Double0Groove

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
667
Yes, Disney has more a connection with Nintendo, but Square has more of a connection with Sony.


Sora has a connection with Nintendo, but he has one more so with Sony. Nintendo has acknowledged the series existence, yes.
Also, Nintendo could play a big role in OKing whether or not characters could make it in. Who knows? They could be the reason why Snake was cut in the first place.
Not likely as Kojima admitted that he wasn't even approached for Snake's inclusion and MGS 5 wasn't officially revealed until December of the same year SSB4 was announced to be in development.

Saying that Sora is more of a Sony character is just as irrelevant as saying Ryu is more of a Sony character. His history with Nintendo just simply doesn't go away because he has more games on Sony platforms.
Plus, again, Sora is only owned by Disney, SE isn't a factor.
OBJECTION!
That is not the basis of my argument!
I didn't know that Disney owned Sora, but they do, correct? Now tell me... who is more of a legend? A character who is the main protagonist of a popular video game series or an extremely recognized mascot of one of the most popular, influential companies in the world?
So, let's assume that Nintendo does ask Disney for a character. Why go to them for Sora instead of Mickey? Now I know that you said that he won't happen because he isn't requested, but what of Ryu? Who asked for him before the leaks? Sakurai once shot down fighting game characters!
Now I am not saying that Nintendo will put in Mickey Mouse or a Disney character in general, I am saying in the event of it, they would probably go for him. He would be one of the most profitable characters Nintendo could put in and one could say that Mickey Mouse is just as, if not more, legendary than Mario and Pac-Man.
So, my question is, if you had to choose between a legend and a popular video game character, I think the legend would be the more clear answer.
"There is a fighter ballot on the official Smash for Wii U/3DS website. We’ve received an extremely large number of votes, but of course, Lucas, Roy, and Ryu were in developed even before the ballot was created. I had a grasp on their popularity and demand, though." - Sakurai
It may not have been in good ol' 'Murica, it might not have been in Japan, but somewhere out there was a Smash community that was heavily requesting Ryu. Plus, nothing would technically stop them from getting both characters if they could because the one in high demand would obviously still get them alot of money.

Snake is. He is a mascot to Konami and the Metal Gear series is pretty well-known for its storytelling and stealth action.
While Simon hasn't appeared in many Castlevania games, the Belmonts are the family that appeared in the most games and Simon was the first one and is the most popular as a result. Naturally, people would ask for him.
Well-known, not legendary. Kind of like how the shin megami tensei( Atlus's biggest series) is well know but not a legendary franchise( heck, its spin-off franchise is even more popular than the main series.)
 

LIQUID12A

Smash Modder
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LIQUID12A
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This does not Tingle my fancy.

Chance: 1%

Assist Trophy. And even if it weren't, Tingle would have competition.

Want: Abstain

Again, never touched a Zelda game.

Homecoming Hijinx

Chance: 50%

Coin toss, honestly. Depends on whether we get another DK stage.

Want: 50%

Honestly indifferent to the idea.

Predictions:

Waluigi: 5%

Sami: 4%

Nominate: Delphox x5
 

Smasher 101

Smash Lord
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@[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer] and @JBRPG are the winners for Sora and Black Mage respectively.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Been a bit since i done this but.. .ah well.

Tingle

Chances : 1%

Want : abstain

Hate this guy.

Homecoming Hijinx

Chances : 3%

Want : 2%

Noms : Black Shadow x5
 
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Yomi's Biggest Fan

See You Next Year, Baby
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
26,203
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Tingle

Chance: 2%

This charming green guy is a strange NPC who was popular enough to have his own games and had a bigger role in Wind Waker back then. But that still doesn't stop him from having so many bad points against him. He's already an Assit Trophy (an annoying one that is) and he's one of the most hated Zelda characters in the entire franchise. Though he's considered a huge fan favorite in Japan, which would inspire the Americans Hate Tingle Trope that some are familiar with.



Maybe this guy is better off in a situation where his hatedom dies down or he gets a better role in the Zelda franchise? For now, I can only imagine us getting characters like Impa or Tetra over him in the future due to fan demand.

Want: 60 %

Yes, his role in Wind Waker annoyed me to know end due to how frustrating that Triforce Hunt was and his expensive prices for the map deciphers. But this dude is one of the few Zelda c characters that actually makes me laugh and arguably made a dark game like Majora's Mask not so creepy. I'm American and I love Tingle, so having him in Smash would benefit me more the the rest of his self entitled haters.

Homecoming Hijinxs

Chance: 5%

Here we go with the "I want to predict a new song for Smash" rating again. The obvious answer would be the fact that it won;t happen since the developers chose whatever song they deem worthy for the game. With Ryu having his own stage as DLC, I can see K. Rool or Dixie having a stage of their own with some GOOD DKC tracks instead of the hogwash we had in the final game. That's the only way I will see us having this Homecoming Hijinx song.

Want: 100%

Yes, yes, and yes! I loved Tropical Freeze and it's orgasmic soundtrack because David Wise is the best when it comes to his composition. The fact that the Snowmads themselves were a huge improvement from those boring as hell Tikis show how much I love this game and their theme. Having their theme in the game would make well for an ominous track to fight to when playing as DK or the King of the Kritters himself.

Predictions:

Waaaaaaaa: 3%
Sami: 8%


Nominations:

Style Savvy: x5
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Tingle

Chance and Want: Double Zeroes

He's already an Assist Trophy. Even if that weren't the case, he's also far from being the most positively received Zelda character.

Homecoming Hijinx

Chance: 1%

That really depends on whether or not an additional Donkey Kong stage or a music pack will be released as DLC. Even if either of the two did, there are plenty of songs to chose from.

Want: 80%

I'm listening to this song right now and I'm quite enjoying it.

Predictions:

Waluigi - 5%
Sami - 4.5%

Nomination: Young Link x5
 

Aetheri

W/E happens don't panic...
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Shrt and Swt....

Tingle
Chance: 2%
Assist Trophy....well liked in Japan, not so much anywhere else...regarded as one of the creepiest and most disturbing characters in the Zelda franchise by fans...doesn't really do much within the main story of his games, besides TINGLE TINGLE KOOLOO LIMPAH!!! Literally the definitive side character...if Hyrule Warriors DLC was any indication, fans would not be pleased for him to make it over other characters such as Skull Kid, in Hyrule Warriors people at least tolerated his inclusion since he came with the Fierce Deity!!! well technically Young Link, but the Fierce Deity's where the money's at....

----

Want: 0%
A new zelda character, yes, but there are many many more characters I would rather see...Tingle is literally just a character I have to be reminded that he exists to be honest...I'm almost perplexed that he is even this popular but hey, whatever floats your boat...

----

Homecoming Hijinx

Chance: 5%
Ok, so I decided to actually look into this instead of leaving this section blank and seeing as it is from the latest installment from the DK series there a decent shot....but...it is rather tough to say if it will make itself available for DLC. King K Rool is looking to be a top candidate as a Ballot character for DLC, and he could very well come with his own stage, though a Tropical Freeze stage for K Rool makes no sense since he wasn't in the game, then again the stage itself doesn't need to be themed from Tropical Freeze...this stage may very well feature new tracks including this one, but it's tough to say, especially since DK did already receive a new stage on the Wii U version...so the DK franchise receiving a new stage may not be that likely to begin with, as people are more interested in new characters...

----

Want: 100%
After actually listening to the track, that is some dam solid piece of music that would be amazing to smash too...I may have to start playing DK games more often, if this is what I'm missing...

I'm always open to having great tracks to smash too!
I should also add that Big Top Bop is another solid track from Tropical Freeze!

----

Prediction:
Waluigi: 4.2%


Sami: 1.2%

----

Nominations:
Concept: DLC Adventure Mode x3
Concept: New Metroid Prime Stage x2
 
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Drarky

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
215
Location
Yes
3DS FC
1607-4919-4337
Tingle: Double abstain. (No clue about this guy's popularity)

__

Homecoming Hijinx:

Chance: 10% I don't really know, it has that little chance but it feels so... generic.

Want: 0% I don't care that mucho about the DK series

__

Prediction:

Waluigi: 8%

Sami: 9%

___

Nomination: Zero x5 (Megaman Zero series)
 

shane3x

Saint of Swords
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
656
Location
Australia
Are there plans to ever update or add onto it? There are plenty of characters that would probably drop off in favour or other characters in terms of % coming to smash and popularity wise.
 

CaptainAmerica

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 21, 2014
Messages
3,089
Location
New York
NNID
TomOfHyrule
Tingle


Chance: 5%
Want: 5%
One of the most hated characters in the history of Nintendo - not even Ridley can claim that title...
As much as I can't stand him - he fit rather well in Majora's Mask due to the creepy feel of the game, but was completely deserving of the hatedom in other games - I can't deny his history with the Zelda franchise. After the Triforce three, he's really the most seen character in the entire series, since Impa was a background nobody until Skyward Sword. This despite him being relatively unimportant to the series as a whole, aside from being a 'Pay money to advance plot' mechanic that ruined Wind Waker for me (well, the art style did that pretty well too, but Tingle was the last straw. At least I got through the HD remake since they cut most of his role)
I'd prefer the one-shots with huge fanbases and elaborate character profiles like Midna or Ghriahim before Tingle, but Tingle does have his massive fanbase in Japan.
And blah blah he's already in, but I don't take that as a death sentence. His hatedom might be. But then again, most were OK with Tingle in HW since that gave us Fierce Deity Link as well; if they gave me Ridley with Tingle, I'd gladly accept.
New music: Abstain
But do I hear K.Rool coming with a new stage...? WANT 100%!
Waluigi Prediction: 10.0%
Sami Prediciton: 5.2%

Nom: Classic Mode x5
 

BKupa666

Barnacled Boss
Moderator
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
7,788
Location
Toxic Tower
Tingle:

Chance - 1%
I don't remember what I gave other AT characters I've rated, but I'm sure it wasn't too far from one percent. Not only do they have no incentive to upgrade ATs to characters when there are non-AT characters scoring higher, and when it was a conscious choice to make those characters ATs, but Tingle specifically is a polarizing character...not exactly the sort you want as DLC compared to other candidates (HW being a different beast altogether before it comes up).

Want - 10%
An ideal new Zelda character out of the pool of candidates, but not one I care about.

Concept - Homecoming Hijinx:

Chance - 15%
It's a great track, probably the most iconic TF track not already in the game. It's a toss-up as to whether K. Rool gets bundled with a stage (and not certain he gets in at all), and if he does, it's much more likely to be Gangplank Galleon, his canon home stage, vs. "Frozen DK Island," which for all intents and purposes would be a palette swap of Jungle Hijinx. I love the track and truly hope it shows up, especially since it doesn't need to be remixed, but there are a number of contingencies it would rely on to happen.

Want - 100%
David Wise eternal love.

Waluigi Prediction - 4.5%
Sami Prediction - 5.6%

Nominate Boss Battles Mode x5
 

Troykv

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
3,990
Tingle...

Chance: 2%

Unlike other characters that are in a most grey and controversial area... He is actually hated for almost everyone in the west... But has a really weird popularity in Japan... Well, still his main problem is already be a Assist Trophy.

Want: Abstain...

Eh... I don't sure.

DK Song:

Chance & Want: Abstain... Eh?

Predictions: Waluigi and Sami

Waluigi Chance: 10%
Sami Chance: 6%

Nominations

Adeleine x5
 
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