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[Pacack]

In some regions, I think Professor Layton is actually published by Nintendo.

That would be correct. I believe Nintendo helps localize it everywhere but Japan itself.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Mewtwo:
Probability (which has actually been proven to mean nothing to society, mind you, but I wont argue the thesis of this whole thread here): 63.24%
He has every reason to make it in. Others have made the claims, and some have failed an attempt to prove 'character slots,' or a guarantee for Jigglypuff. So, I will not. To me it comes down to - one of the most clear choices, versus Sakurai. No character is a guarantee if not a big eight (the original eight: there are not original twelve, the other four are delightful bonuses found in the game. Any individual should be able to look at the twelve in the game and see that eight are profound for Nintendo, and four are not even secondary, but tertiary.
Want: All In
Look at my avatar.

Leak:
Probability: 36.03%
Really? It is clear to someone we may have been given all the characters except Chrom? And that the only wanted inclusion was Megaman? That is a pure kick to the testes from Sakurai. I believed it could be true, for a moment, mostly to appease any whims I may have conjured. Yet, we are not having a story intense mode (SE) because they were leaked online. Surprise is important to Sakurai. Hence, we won't be told everything. I don't think we have been told hidden characters at all, in fact.
WANT: 0%
Eek. I like SOME cuts, but not all of them. I certainly do not enjoy the additions. What a horror of a roster. I hope it is not true, nono.

 

[Sid-cada]

Mewtwo

Chance - 90% - Just rated him 22 days ago, and I don't think the Hoen Remakes are going to affect him. What can be said.

Want - 95% - The cut most agree was the worst coming back? Yes please.


Halcandra Stage

Chance - 2.5% - Man, am I glad I decided on what each stage should get at Nutty Noon's day. While this is an iconic and memorable location, it suffers problems of redundancy with a number of other stages.

Want - 40% - Could be cool, but like I said, a number of stages are very similar to this one already.


Predictions

Leak is Real - 27.98% - Chorus Men as a base.

Style Savyist - 0.03% - Wow... we really are running out of characters.


Nominations

Anna X5

 

[Gunla]

Mewtwo:
You know where that post is, folks. Not typing another super post. It's on like, Page 18 or something. Worth a read.

Oh, yeah, it’s that time again. Mewtwo Time. And you guys remember my old post back in RTC, the biggest rating, by word count, in the history of RTC? Well, I'm gonna top it now!

Time to… ahem, top that record. Sorry Shulk, but you’ll get a smaller rating of 75% chance, 100% Want. But hey, you got 100% want, Shulk! Don’t feel so salty and undertreated! And look at all these other ratings you got!

Anyways, let’s get to the serious situation. Consider this, a Logic Bullet, if you will.

This post has been placed in a spoiler, as to not cause a massive clutter. It’s quite large in content and is my biggest post ever, actually, so out of respect for mobile users, I give you forewarning when you open this Spoiler.

Spoiler: Big Mewtwo rating that makes Ridley look small

M2U-CL-Myutsu

So, let’s begin. And the beginning is the return of my Pros VS Cons system of rating characters. With some facts and issues in between.

The Facts/Pros:

-Mewtwo is ridiculously popular. No, I mean it. He’s not only the most requested character worldwide but he even tops newcomer requests for characters like Pac-Man, Megaman and King K Rool. As a result, he’s a character that many fans have clamored for since his conspicuous absence from Brawl.

-Mewtwo was not ever replaced by any character in Smash Bros. In fact, Mewtwo has been planned for every game, and likely even 4, if Sakurai’s comments hinting around the possibility of Mewtwo are anything to hear. While Sakurai is known for trolling, when it comes to a character of such a special situation, being requested so dearly, trolling the fans with Mewtwo being something else or trolling them about the character that’s most wanted in the world wouldn’t be a good PR strategy. As for how he’s been planned…

=An interview with Nintendo developers and Sakurai regarding Super Smash Bros 64 reveals that Mewtwo, Bowser and King Dedede were all planned for the first game, but in typical Sakurai fashion, were cut for timing issues.

=Mewtwo, along with Bowser and Dedede, were planned for Melee. While Bowser and Mewtwo made it in as newcomer, Dedede was cut for time constraints and 6 clones (Falco, Dr. Mario, Young Link, Roy, Ganondorf and Pichu) were placed in the game instead of the King.

=Dedede was eventually a newcomer for Smash 4, along with Meta Knight, giving two newcomers for Kirby. 5 characters, 4 being clones, were cut in Brawl, but the issue regarding these characters is the circumstances for their attendance taking a hit. It turns out that Dr. Mario, Roy, and Mewtwo were all planned for Brawl as their data was found on the disc as incomplete. While many speculate that they were imports, Mewtwo and Roy have special fanfares that go unused. Mewtwo appears to be the most complete of the unused characters, but the issue is what exactly caused him to not be in the final game. Many have speculated and said Lucario has directly replaced Lucario as a “clone”, but this is incorrect by factual levels.

Noticing a trend? Sakurai has trouble with time, because he takes his time making these games the best they can be.

-Lucario is not a clone of Mewtwo, straightforward and to the point. Even the move they are “considered to share” is different; Aura Sphere is a standard projectile and Shadow Ball travels as a Medusa Head pattern (coined from Castlevania’s Medusa enemies that flew in the titular path) and if 4’s to show anything, they’re barely alike in any way, shape or manner. Lucario is a physical fighter, and Mewtwo is a special one. Even moreso, Lucario’s Mega Evolution makes this even bigger of an obvious fallacy; Lucario’s Mega makes his Aura more powerful than before, something Mewtwo does not have. And speaking of Aura, I hope people get it that Aura=/=Mewtwo. Because the most aura Mewtwo gets ever in any single game is Aura Sphere, and many Pokemon learn Aura Sphere.

-Furthermore, to go onto the clone discussion, Clone Logic is dumb. By that Logic, a ton of characters are "Clones": Marth/Ike, Megaman/Sonic, Mario/Luigi, Charizard/Bowser, Kirby/Dedede, Little Mac/Greninja, the list goes on. Mewtwo and Lucario have different movesets, and they do not play the same at ALL, seriously. The Mega Evolution will only make this stand out.

-Lucario couldn’t have replaced Mewtwo if both were planned at the same time. That makes no sense to just do that in development and not get any bad PR, which Nintendo does not want. However, Brawl’s development is one thing that’s full of horrible planning, priority, bad balance, and poor Public Relations, which leads me to what actually managed to off Mewtwo and 6 other potential characters’ chances in Brawl…

-Sonic the Hedgehog. No, I kid you not. Sonic was not planned for Brawl at first, a widely known fact. He was only added as public demand grew to an insane level. Nintendo decided that he would give more profit to the game (which honestly was not a bad idea at first) but unlike Snake in Melee, they decided to not wait till next game and added him in as a late newcomer. However, being a third party results in not only a contract, but priority for his completion. What did this mean? This meant that pretty much most of the other newcomers and characters unfinished would get cut, so Sonic had to be rushed in an attempt to try and get them all done. This lead to a low quality Sonic in Brawl, and a mediocre representation as to how he played. However, it’s highly speculated that the three characters that managed to be completed that were likely already in development are Jiggs, Wolf and Toon Link, as they are late in the listings with Sonic.

-Oh, and if the trend of one character replacing another is any point, then wouldn’t Lucario get “replaced” by Greninja, who also is now being pinned as Mewtwo’s replacement? Even though Greninja plays like Strider, who doesn’t even remotely resemble Mewtwo in any way at all whatsoever? The logic behind it is flimsy and shoddy at best.

-Sakurai has dropped a hint about Mewtwo back at E3, when the roster was finalized already. The wording about this leads to the fact that Sakurai knows people want Mewtwo back in, and as a result, there’s absolutely no reason not to do so. However, he’s also noting that while the roster they have in mind is finalized, cuts are possible, which referred to any Smash character ever in the series. So far, Pokemon Trainer has been the only cut that is confirmed.

-So, with the newcomer for Pokemon revealed, many have speculated no more Pokemon characters. However, some main points are here to completely shoot that argument down.

=Brawl, as a whole, breaks this entire rule. The biggest examples come from Fire Emblem, Mother and Pokemon, ironically enough. Ike was revealed before unlockable veteran Marth. Lucas is the same with Ness. And Pokemon Trainer not only was revealed before Lucario, but ANOTHER veteran as well, Jigglypuff.

=Melee, as a whole, also breaks this entire rule. Bowser and Peach before Luigi and Dr. Mario is the main example of this occurring.

=Unlockable characters are pretty much a given at this point. Sonic and Megaman were revealed, but were unlockable. Unlocking characters, veterans and newcomers alike is not something foreign to Smash Bros, and with the way it’s looking right now, that seems to be the case. Only 29 characters have been revealed, and that seems fine considering the evolution of Smash’s Roster. The starting list will likely be 35, with a few more newcomers and veterans arriving. With those unlockables come Veterans and newcomers alike, and with the trend very likely being upheld, we can easily get another Pokemon Character.

-Mewtwo is a special case because of not only his status, but his renewed iconicness. Thanks to the Mega Evolution concept, Mewtwo has gained two new Mega Evolutions. With Game Freak essentially helping decide characters for Pokemon, it’d be a bad idea for them to have passed it up. Mewtwo’s even more special because of him being the only Legendary to Mega Evolve, allowing him to showcase Mega Evolutions, Legendary Pokemon and a famous icon from Pokemon. He’s also had two movies, now, a special (Mewtwo Returns) and is far more available than his current competition, Jigglypuff.

-In the condition that it’s a fight to see who stays, it’s likely to end in Mewtwo’s favor. Jigglypuff has seriously jumped out of the spotlight and now only clings onto dear life with the fact that she’s one of the original 12. However, that’s been shown to not always be helpful to her, as in Brawl she’s the last veteran returning to be completed according to disk data. That could very well be due to her spotlight and limelight time going away even before Brawl. Her inclusion in the original is because she was a model based on Kirby, and was easy to make for the development team given the time they had.

-Jigglypuff’s disadvantage is that the main reason it has been selected is because of the anime connection. It’s been iconic in the anime until a while back. Jigglypuff makes just minor, and minor appearances here and there. However, Mewtwo’s gotten more and more major roles.

-So certain to say we’ll get a grass type? Still doesn’t mean anything. We’re likely keeping Brawl’s count. Slots aren’t an issue, there was still a whopping plurality for Pokemon, outing above Zelda for two characters.

-6 characters for Pokémon are possible. It’s known that Sakurai doesn’t like to seriously go cut happy. So why would he get rid of 2 other Pokémon, one from Brawl as well? It’s very plausible given Brawl gave them technically 7 characters, as PT is counted as one by the disk. While 7 characters is very, very unlikely for us to see at the time and date, as with transformations gone, the characters we get are likely to be fleshed out.

-Squirtle and Ivysaur are likely getting a similar fate with PT. Having two starters of the same type is quite literally blasphermy, and with us getting at least one newcomer a game, and at least one Pokemon cut every single Smash Bros game, you can bet we’re losing at least one of them, since the cycle is caused by Game Freak’s decision in planning and promotion with it. (Note that Fire Emblem’s developers do not do this, but Sakurai does take their input). Pokemon is a mega-franchise that will showcase what would be desired best to show Pokemon, and Mewtwo fits the bill. HOWEVER, this does not mean Ivysaur or Squirtle are deconfirmed. Neither have been shown, therefore, until we see that 5th Pokemon, it’s a tossup. However, they appear as a pair; if one is deconfirmed, then the other may likely share the same fate, and if one is confirmed, it’s likely the other will be as well.

-Mewtwo is the most iconic legendary Pokemon. The Pikachu of legendaries. Some reasoning:

-One of the most iconic in the original games, still is today thanks to his resurgence with Megas.

-Mewtwo’s been planned for every freaking Smash game. If you didn’t get that earlier, please look above. Interviews have confirmed it, disk data has confirmed it. No way getting around it.

-Mewtwo has THREE Pokemon Specials, two being movies. He’s kind of like Ron Burgundy in Smash Bros. Oh, wait, what’s that? HE IS ALSO GOING TO BE IN THE NEXT POKEMON MOVIE, WHICH FEATURES MEGA EVOLUTIONS ALONG WITH DIANCIE.

-Mewtwo still fits the bill for playable. He’s appearing in X&Y (Like every single other playable character from Pokemon), is a rather important point in the game (showcases Mega Evolutions as their literal poster boy), is one of the games Legendaries, a very iconic element of Pokemon, is a new inclusion (Mega) that would work well in fighting (speculated to be a reason why Greninja may have been selected over anyone else). For Smash, he presents a unique playstyle that works with being a ranged fighter with excellent throws. Oh man, those throws. Even compared to the rest of the cast, he’s still quite unique, having an original moveset that no other character really copies from at all exactly. This original moveset is also why his cut was very controversial… many questioned it because the only other cuts were clones.

-Too many Megas? Spacies would like to see you. We got 3 Landmasters that were different, Megas are just like that. But then again they are to power up that character’s playstyle.

-Jigglypuff and Mewtwo can still coexist. Redundancy, but it’s important to note that some character will get cut in this process. Mewtwo, in addition, is a villainous character, something that Pokemon has mostly lacked. And Pokemon had the most playable characters as a series in Brawl, but no villain at all.

-Greninja is the Main Pokemon poster boy of Gen VI. Mewtwo’s the other side. I fail to see how Greninja detrimentally hurts Mewtwo when Squirtle has something to worry about.

-Mewtwo’s absence in the Direct helps him, it doesn’t hurt him. Why? The Trailer in the Direct pretty much showed off a large majority of the Pokeball Pokemon, killing off many, MANY potentials, such as Zoroark and the like. Mewtwo was not shown at all in the Direct. As for the actual gameplay? Mewtwo was not shown anywhere in gameplay. A large variety of other Pokemon were shown… Meowth, Deoxys, Zoroark, many other potentials with high chances… and Mewtwo wasn’t present. He’d likely turn into a Pokeball if he wasn’t playable to at least please fans.

-Ivysaur and Squirtle have a shot, though with another water type, it’s skeptical. Starters getting repeated has not occurred in Smash, and types have only been repeated once, with Pichu, who was the standout ridiculous iconic character at the time.

-Time constraints. Although seeing how we know the game’s been in development for two years, and there’s been two freaking teams working on this, I think time constraints aren’t going to be the largest issue.

-Sakurai’s pulling pranks on us. Ridley’s very controversial, but one cannot deny that it was very trollish. Same with Greninja looking like Mewtwo. Neither are 100% deconfirmed for various reasons.

-Muhrelevancy and muhrecency? Those are in Mewtwo’s favor, being relevant and recent, but someone will list them.

So… Logic Bullet over.

For those of you who didn't read that, it was a long, long arguement that's worth your time when you have time.

My rating for Mewtwo has not been changed. My faith in him has only increased, honestly. There’s a lot of shoddy arguments about movesets and replacements, but it’s very incorrect and wrong in nature. Once again, in my own personal thoughts, the detractors for Mewtwo are starting to disappear, as more good reasons for his inclusion have started to appear, especially with the Megas. Why not have just one dual Mega Stone Pokemon when you can have both? With my own power and rating system, I give Mewtwo a 99.99%. It might seem extreme to some, but hey, I’ve given a long, LONG explanation to why I give this kind of stuff!

Want: 100%- Okay, this one was obvious. I just made this 2500+ worded rating on Mewtwo, and you’d expect me to pull one of my logical breakdowns just because I want to?

Let me tell you this. My most wanted Veteran, even behind Meta Knight. My second most wanted character overall, behind Bandana Waddle Dee. Mewtwo’s always been a special Pokemon to me, being my first legendary captured in a game, and my original main in Melee. In Project M, I was able to recapture that glory and get the taste of what would have happened if Sakurai didn’t have those constraints back in Brawl. I have high hopes for Mewtwo in this installment and I’m sure he’ll be in the game in some shape or form. Mewtwo will someday return to Smash- and Sakurai has set up the fans with a tease- to disappoint them would be some strange mixed feelings, on top of PSD in Pyrosphere. He’s a character that I’ll be quite sad if he’s not in the game, but I’ll still be happy- This game is going to be great, and one character won’t break it or make it for me. It’s a lesson that should be learned by many, and a lesson that the roster’s going to be great regardless.

Chances: 99.99%
Want: 100%

Halcandra Stage:
Chances: 0.4%- Not with Triple Deluxe in store.
Want: 00.01%- Nah.

PREDICTIONS:
Freaking Leaks, Man!-30% Because Chorus Men.
Style....What?-0.01%- NO.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Mewtwo:
Probability (which has actually been proven to mean nothing to society, mind you, but I wont argue the thesis of this whole thread here): 63.24%
He has every reason to make it in. Others have made the claims, and some have failed an attempt to prove 'character slots,' or a guarantee for Jigglypuff. So, I will not. To me it comes down to - one of the most clear choices, versus Sakurai. No character is a guarantee if not a big eight (the original eight: there are not original twelve, the other four are delightful bonuses found in the game. Any individual should be able to look at the twelve in the game and see that eight are profound for Nintendo, and four are not even secondary, but tertiary.
Want: All In
Look at my avatar.

Leak:
Probability: 36.03%
Really? It is clear to someone we may have been given all the characters except Chrom? And that the only wanted inclusion was Megaman? That is a pure kick to the testes from Sakurai. I believed it could be true, for a moment, mostly to appease any whims I may have conjured. Yet, we are not having a story intense mode (SE) because they were leaked online. Surprise is important to Sakurai. Hence, we won't be told everything. I don't think we have been told hidden characters at all, in fact.
WANT: 0%
Eek. I like SOME cuts, but not all of them. I certainly do not enjoy the additions. What a horror of a roster. I hope it is not true, nono.

Well, that argument is mostly over and done with, but there is one thing you've forgotten that Snake has that Layton lacks; impact. The Metal Gear series is critically acclaimed and is well known for popularizing the stealth genre in the gaming industry. In other words, the series has played a part in shaping the world of gaming as we know it today. The Professor Layton series, while a great puzzle series, is not revolutionizing anything at the moment and hasn't left much of an impact on gaming as a whole, aside from just being a popular, successful series. There are a lot of popular, successful series. There are only a few that revolutionize.

Fair, but Metal Gear has many characters, and Snake is not even Solid in all of them. Halo revolutionized aspects of FPS, did it not? Yes, Master Chief is not a plausible character. I understand he never was on a Nintendo console, and is the mascot to another company (nearly), but his series' impact is pretty irrelevant.

 

[Burigu]

Mewtwo:
Chances: 50%

• Might be a bit "low" for Mewtwo, but this is the second highest chance I have put to a character (I think), I would put a 75% but Sakurai is Sakurai, so you can expect the unexpected with him.
• I don't belive in the whole "Sceptile hurts him" or "Greninja hurts him" so Hoenn remakes are almost not relevant
• We don't even know the size of the roster so this is a guess but more than competiting with Lucario, Greninja or this support boom for Sceptile, I see Jigglypuff as its mayor "competitor"

Want: 75%
I don't remember exactly my last "want" but I will stick with 75% this time around, as the original overpowered legend from Red and Blue, I find him more deserving of the spot than Sceptile.

Halcandra stage
Chances: 10%
Sakurai seems to love Kirby Super Star

Want:30%
Why not?

 

[Autumn ♫]

Mewtwo
Chance:90%
It'd be crazy even for Sakurai not to include him, and if we only get 5 Pokemon characters (which I find unlikely) Mewtwo will definitely have the priority over Jigglypuff.

Want:90%
Tied for my Melee main along with Roy, I'd love to see him come back.

Halcanda Stage:
I really don't know much about the stage, so I guess I'll abstain.

 

[False Sense]

Fair, but Metal Gear has many characters, and Snake is not even Solid in all of them. Halo revolutionized aspects of FPS, did it not? Yet, Master Cheif is not a plausible character. I understand he neer was on a Nintendo console, and is the mascot to another company (nearly), but his series' impact is pretty irrelevant.

I believe Sakurai said that a third party character has to have starred on at least one Nintendo game in order to get in. Halo may have had a big impact, but by Sakurai's rules, it could never get a character, and that's that. I don't really see how this affects Layton.

But, as I've said, that argument is done with. We should be focusing on Mewtwo now, not Layton.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Just move the discussion here if you want:
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-professor-layton-for-ssb4-thread.324333/page-22#post-16742221

 

[pupNapoleon]

Not debating Master Chief to be in, hence the part of my post you bolded. It is the rest of it I wanted to be considered.

I believe Sakurai said that a third party character has to have starred on at least one Nintendo game in order to get in. Halo may have had a big impact, but by Sakurai's rules, it could never get a character, and that's that. I don't really see how this affects Layton.

But, as I've said, that argument is done with. We should be focusing on Mewtwo now, not Layton.

 

[Robertman2]

I have a gut feeling Mewtwo will be in.

 

[Deleted member]

I have a gut feeling Mewtwo will be in.

What are the chances do you think that will happen and how much do you want Mewtwo? Rate this as a percentage!

 

[Morbi]

Mewtwo: 100%
He has been in the game for months; there is no character with more evidence in their favor.
Mewtwo Want: 100%
Why not? He is already in the game. So might as well get used to it.

 

[False Sense]

Mewtwo: 100%
He has been in the game for months; there is no character with more evidence in their favor.
Mewtwo Want: 100%
Why not? He is already in the game. So might as well get used to it.

While I'm all for your support of Mewtwo, I do have to ask what all there is in terms of evidence in his favor. As far as I know, we haven't really seen much in the game itself that would strongly indicate he's in. Sure, he has absolutely every conceivable reason to be in, but in terms of actual evidence, I'm not seeing it. Could you elaborate on this, perhaps?

 

[Morbi]

While I'm all for your support of Mewtwo, I do have to ask what all there is in terms of evidence in his favor. As far as I know, we haven't really seen much in the game itself that would strongly indicate he's in. Sure, he has absolutely every conceivable reason to be in, but in terms of actual evidence, I'm not seeing it. Could you elaborate on this, perhaps?

Evidence for Mewtwo:

1. Mewtwo is one of the most prominent Pokemon; he is obviously the most prevalent legendary to appear in the franchise lore as well. Fun fact, he is the first Pokemon to appear in the Pokemon opening.

2. This is an aspect of notion one, but Mewtwo has made the most major appearances in Pokemon movies, he has appeared as a main character in 2. The most recent being: Genesect the Legend Awakened which was released right around when many believe the roster to be finalized.

3. Mewtwo's Mega Evolution was the first to be revealed, this alludes to his marketing importance, Gamefreak clearly understands that he is a fan-favorite that incites hype.

4. Mewtwo is the most requested character for Smash in general; requests don't yield much on their own, but they are a good indicator of popularity.

5. Sakurai has actually addressed the prospect of playable Mewtwo, he was one of the only characters Sakurai has ever gone out of his way to mention. We might discern this as interest in the character.

6. Speaking of interest in the character, Mewtwo was planned for every single iteration of Smash, obviously outside circumstances prevented two of those appearances; nevertheless, his demand is ever so present.

7. Mewtwo was almost finished in Brawl according to the code, as such; we should objectively treat him as though he was a Melee veteran. He is just as safe as any other Melee veteran. Mewtwo was to be included from Melee to Brawl, there was LITERALLY nothing going for him, but he was still planned. As of current, from Brawl to Smash 4, he is the overt marketing Pokemon.

8. Pokemon Origins; it was evidence for solo Charizard, it is evidence for Mewtwo. Mewtwo was a big part of this promotional special, speaking about specials, he was present in three. This is more than any other Pokemon.

9. He returns as a primary legendary in Pokemon X and Y; people used to argue that Lucario's Mega Evolution didn't matter, but it obviously did. Mewtwo is in his traditional pose in a cave. Something iconic to his character in regards to the game. This promotes the best-selling 3DS title. One might argue that X and Y are already represented through Greninja and Mega Evolutions. But Mewtwo is still an aspect of the game.

10. No other Pokemon is as important and unique; there are no more ideal choices (aside from Meowth, who was de-confirmed). He is the only missing piece, a piece that was never intended to be missing. The priority list is not stagnant. Believe it or not, things change in 6 years. Clearly, for Mewtwo, things have changed for the better. His staggering importance is just as observable as it was when he was in his prime.

11. The Greninja trailer was not the proverbial “nail in the coffin,” it is actually evidence in favor of Mewtwo. Greninja was missing his webbed appendages and his pelvic fin, it is apparent that the trailer was intended to be ambiguous and incite suspicions about Mewtwo.

12. He follows Sakurai’s arbitrary criteria. The character would obviously correlate to more sales, the character is vastly unique, the character contributes to the game’s balance, and the character fits into the Smash Brothers Universe. It is established that he closely follows this criteria as he was intended for every title; present in one, and he is clearly the definitive example of Sakurai’s criteria.

 

[Kenith]

And so it begins.

Mewtwo:

Chance: 85%. What can I say that hasn't been said already? He's one of the most popular Pokemon of all time, has starred in multiple movies, is extremely unique, has had a resurgence in popularity from his inclusion in Pokemon X & Y along with two Mega Evolutions for each version, is highly requested for Smash, etc. However, he gets 15% subtracted for being at the mercy of the insanity that is Masahiro Sakurai.

Want: 100%. I'm not his biggest fan, but he deserves to reclaim his rightful place in Super Smash Bros. I remember fondly clucthing my Mewtwo plush many years ago and unlocking him in Melee for the first time, and I want the generation of excited kids introduced to Pokemon through X and Y to get that exact same experience over even my most wanted characters.

Halcandra:

Chance: 15%. This stage gets this rating for being a decent stage in it's own right, but not really notable enough to be particularly considered for the game. Then again, this is Kirby, Sakurai does what he wants.

Want: 10%. Eh, I really don't care one way or another about this.

--------------------------------- Predictions:

Gematsu Leak: 45.5%.
Style Saavy: 5%. This is going to be hilarious.

--------------------------------- Nominations:

Anna x5 "Violence is on sale today!"

 

[Gunla]

If that doesn't cut it for you False, I did quote my mega post, which addresses the Hoenn issue as well.
DLC is the most likely case for a Hoenn Poke.

 

[False Sense]

Evidence for Mewtwo:

1. Mewtwo is one of the most prominent Pokemon; he is obviously the most prevalent legendary to appear in the franchise lore as well. Fun fact, he is the first Pokemon to appear in the Pokemon opening.

2. This is an aspect of notion one, but Mewtwo has made the most major appearances in Pokemon movies, he has appeared as a main character in 2. The most recent being: Genesect the Legend Awakened which was released right around when many believe the roster to be finalized.

3. Mewtwo's Mega Evolution was the first to be revealed, this alludes to his marketing importance, Gamefreak clearly understands that he is a fan-favorite that incites hype.

4. Mewtwo is the most requested character for Smash in general; requests don't yield much on their own, but they are a good indicator of popularity.

5. Sakurai has actually addressed the prospect of playable Mewtwo, he was one of the only characters Sakurai has ever gone out of his way to mention. We might discern this as interest in the character.

6. Speaking of interest in the character, Mewtwo was planned for every single iteration of Smash, obviously outside circumstances prevented two of those appearances; nevertheless, his demand is ever so present.

7. Mewtwo was almost finished in Brawl according to the code, as such; we should objectively treat him as though he was a Melee veteran. He is just as safe as any other Melee veteran. Mewtwo was to be included from Melee to Brawl, there was LITERALLY nothing going for him, but he was still planned. As of current, from Brawl to Smash 4, he is the overt marketing Pokemon.

8. Pokemon Origins; it was evidence for solo Charizard, it is evidence for Mewtwo. Mewtwo was a big part of this promotional special, speaking about specials, he was present in three. This is more than any other Pokemon.

9. He returns as a primary legendary in Pokemon X and Y; people used to argue that Lucario's Mega Evolution didn't matter, but it obviously did. Mewtwo is in his traditional pose in a cave. Something iconic to his character in regards to the game. This promotes the best-selling 3DS title. One might argue that X and Y are already represented through Greninja and Mega Evolutions. But Mewtwo is still an aspect of the game.

10. No other Pokemon is as important and unique; there are no more ideal choices (aside from Meowth, who was de-confirmed). He is the only missing piece, a piece that was never intended to be missing. The priority list is not stagnant. Believe it or not, things change in 6 years. Clearly, for Mewtwo, things have changed for the better. His staggering importance is just as observable as it was when he was in his prime.

11. The Greninja trailer was not the proverbial “nail in the coffin,” it is actually evidence in favor of Mewtwo. Greninja was missing his webbed appendages and his pelvic fin, it is apparent that the trailer was intended to be ambiguous and incite suspicions about Mewtwo.

12. He follows Sakurai’s arbitrary criteria. The character would obviously correlate to more sales, the character is vastly unique, the character contributes to the game’s balance, and the character fits into the Smash Brothers Universe. It is established that he closely follows this criteria as he was intended for every title; present in one, and he is clearly the definitive example of Sakurai’s criteria.

Er... Well, this is a very well put together list of reasons and indications that Mewtwo should be in. Although, when I was referring to evidence, I was specifically referring to evidence within Smash 4 itself that would point to Mewtwo's inclusion. After all, a character can have every justification for being in the game and yet still not make the cut, so I was hoping to see something from the actual game, or game related footage, that would indicate that the character is not only a justified and logical addition to the game, but one who's presence is strongly hinted at. Looking through the list, the only bit of actual in game evidence you mentioned was #11; a trailer for a newcomer featured a shadowed silhouette of the newcomer that lacked key features of the character, and the absence of those characteristics made the silhouette appear similar to that of Mewtwo's.

I guess that was just a bit of a miscommunication on my part. Sorry about that.

 

[Morbi]

And so it begins.

Mewtwo:
Chance: 85%. What can I say that hasn't been said already? He's one of the most popular Pokemon of all time, has starred in multiple movies, is extremely unique, has had a resurgence in popularity from his inclusion in Pokemon X & Y along with two Mega Evolutions for each version, is highly requested for Smash, etc. However, he gets 15% subtracted for being at the mercy of the insanity that is Masahiro Sakurai.
Want: 100%. I'm not his biggest fan, but he deserves to reclaim his rightful place in Super Smash Bros. I remember fondly clucthing my Mewtwo plush many years ago and unlocking him in Melee for the first time, and I want the generation of excited kids introduced to Pokemon through X and Y to get that exact same experience over even my most wanted characters.

Halcandra:

Chance: 15%. This stage gets this rating for being a decent stage in it's own right, but not really notable enough to be particularly considered for the game. Then again, this is Kirby, Sakurai does what he wants.

Want: 10%. Eh, I really don't care one way or another about this.

--------------------------------- Predictions:

Gematsu Leak: 45.5%.
Style Saavy: 5%. This is going to be hilarious.

--------------------------------- Nominations:
Anna x5 "Violence is on sale today!"

Thank you, I had forgotten about his second Mega Evolution. I added it to my text-wall for the next time someone asks for some supporting arguments in favor of Mewtwo.

 

[Louie G.]

The evidence for Mewtwo in Smash 4 is that there IS no evidence for Mewtwo in Smash 4.
Nothing points to his inclusion but nothing detracts from it either.
So in reality, Mewtwo's as likely as he's ever been (maybe a little less because MUH SLOTS), which is a great thing.

 

[Morbi]

Er... Well, this is a very well put together list of reasons and indications that Mewtwo should be in. Although, when I was referring to evidence, I was specifically referring to evidence within Smash 4 itself that would point to Mewtwo's inclusion. After all, a character can have every justification for being in the game and yet still not make the cut, so I was hoping to see something from the actual game, or game related footage, that would indicate that the character is not only a justified and logical addition to the game, but one who's presence is strongly hinted at. Looking through the list, the only bit of actual in game evidence you mentioned was #11; a trailer for a newcomer featured a shadowed silhouette of the newcomer that lacked key features of the character, and the absence of those characteristics made the silhouette appear similar to that of Mewtwo's.

I guess that was just a bit of a miscommunication on my part. Sorry about that.

I was just using the generic definition of evidence, but there are some correlations pertinent to Smash. For instance, Origins and X and Y promotion that aided solo-Charizard are clearly applicable to Mewtwo. Sakurai's allusion to Mewtwo would also be Smash related support (by extension his requests on polls and following Sakurai's criteria definitively). I would also assert that is intent and how it pertains to precedent could be applied to the game. But that might just be me.

The evidence for Mewtwo in Smash 4 is that there IS no evidence for Mewtwo in Smash 4.
Nothing points to his inclusion but nothing detracts from it either.
So in reality, Mewtwo's as likely as he's ever been (maybe a little less because MUH SLOTS), which is a great thing.

No. There is evidence in his favor by definition. There are several things that point to his inclusion, your admission of blatantly disregarding these is confirmation bias.

 

[Louie G.]

@ Morbi
I'm biased against my favorite Pokemon of all time?
Okaaaaaay...

From what we've seen in game, there's nothing that points to Mewtwo. Outside of this, whether it be advertising or Sakurai's claims, Mewtwo is easily one of the most likely characters for Smash 4.

I think you misunderstood.

 

[Morbi]

@ Morbi
I'm biased against my favorite Pokemon of all time?
Okaaaaaay...

From what we've seen in game, there's nothing that points to Mewtwo. Outside of this, whether it be advertising or Sakurai's claims, Mewtwo is easily one of the most likely characters for Smash 4.

I think you misunderstood.

You can say that about pretty much every single character in Smash. Including most of the veterans. That doesn't alter the notion that there is evidence to support their inclusion.

The evidence for Mewtwo in Smash 4 is that there IS no evidence for Mewtwo in Smash 4.
Nothing points to his inclusion but nothing detracts from it either.
So in reality, Mewtwo's as likely as he's ever been (maybe a little less because MUH SLOTS), which is a great thing.

Yes. I did misunderstand, you worded your post extremely pretentiously and even implied that slots might be a determinate factor.

 

[Louie G.]

Sorry, I meant in game. I apologize.

And I feel that slots are a load of crap, but I won't dismiss the possibility of slots actually meaning something.
Slots are the only reason I put Mewtwo below a 90%. In all honesty I have no idea how Sakurai thinks, so I can't tell whether slots mean anything or not. I don't think they do, though.

 

[Morbi]

Sorry, I meant in game. I apologize.

And I feel that slots are a load of crap, but I won't dismiss the possibility of slots actually meaning something.
Slots are the only reason I put Mewtwo below a 90%. In all honesty I have no idea how Sakurai thinks, so I can't tell whether slots mean anything or not. I don't think they do, though.

It is fine, I feel as though I misunderstood as well. I don't see how in game evidence is entirely relevant. Evidence is evidence. I don't care where it comes from. I apologize.

 

[Louie G.]

It is fine, I feel as though I misunderstood as well. I don't see how in game evidence is entirely relevant. Evidence is evidence. I don't care where it comes from. I apologize.

I thought that was @ False Sense 's question.

 

[False Sense]

Well, I guess I should throw in my own ratings for Mewtwo at this point. So, considering how I gave him a 75% last time...

Mewtwo Chance: 75%

Same as before. I don't believe there is any reason to think that the Ruby and Sapphire remakes (as amazing as those will be) will have any impact on this game's roster at all. So, Mewtwo's chances remain the same; likely, but maybe Greninja is all we're getting.

Mewtwo Want: 100%

Let me put it this way. So far, there have only been three characters I've given 100% want to: Mewtwo, Robin, and Professor Layton. If I was able to choose to include either Robin+Layton, or Mewtwo, I'd go with Mewtwo without hesitation.

Halcandra Chance: 5%

While I think a Return to Dreamland stage is likely, I think something like the Lor Starcutter would be the stage of choice over Halcandra. And even then, stages are rather hard to predict, so I find it not terribly likely.

Halcandra Want: 10%

I wouldn't hate this, but I don't really care for it one way or the other. I'd prefer the Starcutter.

Gematsu Leak Prediction: 60%

This is going to be a rather interesting day, I think. The way I see it, there will be three kinds of scores we'll see for this. There will be people who worship the leak and give it 90-100% scores, people who are 50/50 and thus give a 50/50 score, and people who doubt the leak and give a low score at around 10%. I feel like the average for this will be about 60%.

 

[Arcanir]

Abstaining from Halcandra

Mewtwo
Chances: 95%
Same as before, the remakes do not change anything about the character or his chances. He's still a very popular request and one of the most popular Pokémon, he's still heavily pushed by GF, and Sakurai has noted him. Those are still great merits for a character to have under his belt, which makes him a great choice to represent the franchise again in SSB4.

Want: 70%
I liked him in Melee, so I would like to see him return.

 

[cephalopod17]

I abstain from Halcandra

Mewtwo

Chances: 90%
Popular, Revenant, Veteran, etc. You all have heard this stuff before.

Want: 100%
Iconic Pokémon and a fan favorite.

Gematsu Leak: 50%
Savvy Stylist: .2%

Nominations: Mr. Resetti x5

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Leak:
Probability: 36.03%
Really? It is clear to someone we may have been given all the characters except Chrom? And that the only wanted inclusion was Megaman? That is a pure kick to the testes from Sakurai. I believed it could be true, for a moment, mostly to appease any whims I may have conjured. Yet, we are not having a story intense mode (SE) because they were leaked online. Surprise is important to Sakurai. Hence, we won't be told everything. I don't think we have been told hidden characters at all, in fact.
WANT: 0%
Eek. I like SOME cuts, but not all of them. I certainly do not enjoy the additions. What a horror of a roster. I hope it is not true, nono.

Um...

The Gematsu leak didn't address cuts at all and stated more newcomers than just Chrom.

You have the wrong leak.

Plus Little Mac was heavily requested.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Mewtwo:
85% - I'm still fairly confident he and Jiggs will be back. Sceptile isn't popular enough, and won't become popular again until after the 3DS version comes out. We already got the unpopular Pokemon in Greninja. Now let's get the two popular ones.

Halcandra Stage:
35% - I just don't know...

Nominations:
Micaiah x 5 - It's finally time!

 

[NintenRob]

Mewtwo:
85% - I'm still fairly confident he and Jiggs will be back. Sceptile isn't popular enough, and won't become popular again until after the 3DS version comes out. We already got the unpopular Pokemon in Greninja. Now let's get the two popular ones.

Halcandra Stage:
35% - I just don't know...

Nominations:
Micaiah x 5 - It's finally time!

Excuse me? You realise that Greninja is the most popular pokemon of gen 6 and is far from unpopular.

 

[Morbi]

Excuse me? You realise that Greninja is the most popular pokemon of gen 6 and is far from unpopular.

I agree, the most popular Pokemon of any given generation is inherently far from unpopular.

 

[Deleted member]

OH NO!
I have terrible news!

Hades has invaded Groose's realm! He is invading Skyloft!
Being the epic guy that he is, he has to defend his homeland! So, I have stepped in to take charge and end the day!

Here we go again!

DAY OVER!
We've succeeded in rating the world's most powerful Pokemon...
Can we succeed in rating the leak?​

 

[SmashShadow]

My answer is the same as it was in my giant essay last time.
99% Mewtwo
100% Want Master Race Pokemon

Halcondra stage: 30% A RTD stage is a given but I feel it has a good chance,,not as good as Cookie Country though.

 

[Gunla]

OH NO!
I have terrible news!

Hades has invaded Groose's realm! He is invading Skyloft!

This is why Groose needed to buy insurance from the Viridi Almighty Home and Realm Security service.
We offer specials and price cuts on occasion.

 

[Deleted member]

Mewtwo
Chance: 76.27%
Want: 81.50%
Hoenn, take your stupid trumpets and throw them in the water! You aren't affecting Mewtwo! Mewtwo's chance has slightly raised, but his want has slightly lowered. His scores are nearly identical to where they were before the remakes were confirmed.

Halcandra
Chance: 23.07%
Want: 43.50%
This stage has a greater chance than Nutty Noon does, but less so than Cookie Country. In fact, it's in the middle of both of those stages. However, it's less wanted than both of the Kirby's Return to Dream Land stages that we've rated.

Today... oh boy. The time has come. The time is now! What am I talking about? It is time to rate the validity of the Gematsu leak!
Sal Romano has leaked eleven characters (Villager, Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer, Little Mac, Pokemon from X and Y (Greninja), Pac-Man, Mii, Shulk, Palutena, Chrom, and "Chorus Men"). So far, he has gotten five right with six yet to be confirmed. Is he really leaking these characters or is he just lucky? We will also be rating Savvy Stylist from Style Savvy. Will she enter the fray and be fashionably late or will Sakurai Higgs say that she has no style? Please rate the validity of the Gematsu leak and Savvy Stylist in chance and want today!
BECAUSE THE GEMATSU LEAK IS SUCH A CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC, PLEASE REFRAIN FROM FLAME WARS AND HEAVY DEBATE. KEEP THINGS CIVIL. THE EVIDENCE IS STILL THE SAME TO EVERYONE ELSE NO MATTER HOW YOU INTERPRET IT.

Tomorrow, we will be rating the chance of a veteran being downgraded (meaning a character from Brawl turning into an Assist Trophy, Poke Ball Pokemon, Trophy, or Sticker) as well as Fire Emblem's Micaiah being re-rated (sorry Slime, you lost the tie; your day will be moved to a day later!). Please predict how the concept of a veteran being downgraded and Micaiah will fare in tomorrow's day!

[collapse=Nominations]Is Currently Being Predicted: Veteran Downgraded
X54 Micaiah Rerate
TIED – Moved to Tomorrow: Slime Rerate
x50 Zip (FlingSmash)
x50 Lanky Kong (Donkey Kong)
X50 Crono (Chrono Trigger)
x46 Captain Toad (Super Mario)
x42 Medusa Rerate
x42 Jill (Drill Dozer)
X41 Flynn (Shin Megami Tensei)
X36 Ayumi Tachibana (Famicom Detective Club)
x36 Spyro (Spyro)
X36 Fawful Rerate
x35 Pirate Ship
X35 Doctor Lobe (Big Brain Academy)
X34 Anna Rerate
x31 Barbara (Music Game)
x30 Masked Dedede Alt. Costume
x26 Eirkia (Fire Emblem)
X26 Mr. Resetti (Animal Crossing)
X25 Bowser Land
X22 Tails Rerate
x20 Paper Mario Rerate
x20 Mallo (Pushmo)
x20 Marina (Mischief Makers)
x20 Gaius (Fire Emblem)
X20 Protoman (Mega Man)
X20 Lucas (The Wizard)
x20 Daroach (Kirby)
X20 Kiddy Kong (Donkey Kong)
x20 Plusle and Minun
x19 “X” Protagonist (X)
X17 Peppy “Barrel Roll” Hare (Star Fox)
X15 Dedede Arena
X15 Dry Bowser (Super Mario)
x15 Petey Piranha (Super Mario Bros
x15 Heracross (Pokemon)
x15 Kid Icarus Dog (Kid Icarus)
X15 Three Fire Emblem Characters
x15 Four or More Third Parties
x15 Third Party Assist Trophy
x15 Isaac Rerate
x15 Bayonetta Rerate
x15 All Brawl Veterans / No Brawl Cuts
x15 Venusaur (Pokemon)
x12 Krystal Rerate
x11 Six Mario Characters
X10 Chrom [Stance-Based Moveset]
x10 Aran Ryan (Punch-Out)
X10 Porky Rerate
x10 Two “Retro” Newcomers [Little Mac is not Retro]
X10 Lor Starcutter
X10 Leif (Fire Emblem)
x10 Akari Hayami (Wave Race)
x10 Batallion Wars Rifle Grunts (Batallion Wars)
x10 Commander Shepard (Mass Effect)
x10 Mallow (Super Maro)
x10 Godot (Ace Attorney)
x10 Endless Ocean Stage
x10 Billy Hatcher (The Giant Egg)
x10 Captain Syrup Rerte
x10 Birdo (Super Mario)
x10 NFC Smash Trophies
x10 Nintendo Joker
x10 Ridley Rerate
x5 Fire Emblem Newcomer (Not Chrom)
X5 Medli NPC
X5 Dark Matter Rerate
X5 King Boo Rerate
x5 Masked Man Rerate
X5 Toadsworth (Super Mario)
x5 Post-Release Patches
x5 Kumatora (Mother/Earthbound)
X5 Tony (Earthbound)
x5 Hades Rerate
x5 Dr. Eggman (Sonic the Hedgehog)
x5 Star Man (Pro Wrestling)
x5 King Hippo (Punch-Out!)
x5 Little Mac Codecs
x5 Ganon Rerate
x5 Pokemon Series Newcomer
X5 Galacta Knight (Kirby)
x5 Wreck-It Ralph! (Wreck-It Ralph!)
x5 Metal Sonic (Sonic the Hedgehog)
x3 Frederick AT (Fire Emblem)
x2 Isa Rerate
x2 Birdo AT
x2 Pilotwings Character
x2 Amazon Pandora
x1 Bomberman Rerate
x1 Mr. Dream Boss
x1 Kid Icarus Girl (Kid Icarus)
x1 Yuga (Zelda)
x1 Ravio (Zelda)
x1 Hilda (Zelda)
x1 Ilyana (Fire Emblem)
x1 Seven Pokemon Characters
x1 Six Polemon Characters
x1 Six Mario Characters
x1 Six Zelda Characters
x1 Giygas (Mother)
x1 Kat & Ana (Wario)
x1 Fossil Fighters (Fossil Fighters)
x1 Pink Gold Peach (Super Mario)[/collapse]

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Dang it Hades, you've already failed at trying to take over one land that exists in the Sky, why do you think you'll have any better luck trying to take this one over?

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Mewtwo Chance: 85%
Ah Mewtwo. Where must I begin?
You know what? Instead of doing a "Super Mega Post Rant Bullet Post" thing, I'll do a simple pros and cons list!

Pros:
- Popular and heavily requested
- Represents legendary Pokémon
- Sakurai @ E3: "We're thinking about it!"
- Was considered for Smash 64, playable in Melee, and planned for Brawl
- Recent, being the poster Mega Evolution for X & Y.

Cons:
- Nothing, except for that "Greninja makes it 5 characters" garbage.

Yeah, Mewtwo's likely.

The only actual competition he has is Sceptile, but even then that doesn't come close. Sceptile would most likely come after Mewtwo, as a 7th Pokémon character.
Don't kid yourself Sceptile supporters (one of which is me ).


Mewtwo Want: 100%

He truly deserves to be in.
Therefore I want him in.


Halcandra Stage Chance: 15% (sitting in Mewtwo's shadow today)
Has a lot of competition for a console Kirby stage. You have Dedede's Arena, Yarn Town Patch Whatever, Cookie Country, and that cloud thing.

Halacandra Stage Want: 25%
Eh. Leave the fire and lava stage to Metroid.


Gaymatsu (that's my 10 year-old impression) Leak Prediction: 60%
Many people believe it, and I am one of them.
It seems realistic, and that guy DID manage to predict Wii Fit Trainer (then again, so did Lord Jackal as a joke back in 2011).

Savvy Stylist Prediction: 0.2%
Why?


Omnomnomination: X5 Fawful (HELP ME DAMMIT!)

 

[Gunla]

Abstaining from Gematsu because super bias against Leaks.

Style Stylist-What?
Chances: 00.00%-
Do I need to explain? DO I NEED TO EXPLAIN? HOW DID THIS EVEN COME TO BE?!
Want: 00.00%-
Howaboutno.png

PREDICTIONS:
Downgraded Veteran- 95%- META KNIGHT. IGNORE PLOX
Tharja + Micaiah's head- 0.03%

NOMINATIONS:
Man who missed rating in time gets Fawful X5.