Rate my Ganon UPDATED new vids vsing my friend's Marth

[Frozenserpent]

Ganon:

The most pressing issue I see is that you have a very vunerable recovery. If you want to play ganon at all, it is vital that you learn how to recover well. So, you probably felt pretty frustrated about the marth edgeguarding like that. The trick is to sweet spot the edge and ledge tech when they f-smash or d-tilt you. Otherwise, you're pretty much a goner. When I ledge tech, i also tend to wall jump ledge tech and up-b instantly after doing so, so i can either grab the marth or go over him, then Di his next attack, so that i don't die from that.

In addition, you use f-smash too much. Ganon's f-smash is simply not worth the risk of the lag, considering that he has some better options available at the time you f-smashed.


Marth:

Try to focus a bit more on your aerials instead of your ground attacks (which are much laggier). Sweetspotting is VITAL with marth (such horrible lag otherwise). Wavedashing is very useful, as it helps your spacing. You shouldn't dsmash as much, as you had better options available.

Against ganon, it is important to not expose yourself by needlessly using laggy moves (fsmash comes into mind), because it gives him the opportunity to hit you, and ganon's hits hurt. As for edgeguarding ganon, it's a fairly simple matter. Time your d-tilt or f-smash and hit ganon (you can hit him even when he sweetspots), or you can grab ledge before he grabs the ledge.

As for f-smash... it's a good move, but do try to tipper it. again, this comes from good spacing. You should also work on implementing grabbing into your game. Marth has a ridiculously long grab range and is frustrating to play against. And do learn how to follow up from a grab, as just throwing an opponent does negligible damage from marth.

 

[Squeater]

Yea, i know i use the fsmash alot... I really gotta stop doing that all the time, the lag kills me....

 

[Blackshadow]

Thanks for all the advice peoples, keep it coming, I'm learning

 

[skuzzel]

Your link (since no one has said anything about it) - (btw I really loved your link)
you showed off some nice tech skill with him, which shows you practice the hard stuff, and thats good since your going to need it playing as link. Your projectile game was good, you could try to use it on enemies returning to the edge, a well placed arrow can ruin a marth trying to return useing the >B. Actully that leads me to thing you need to learn the VERY most.

LEARN HOW TO KO BETTER - you let a marth who couldn't consistantly sweet spot on FD get over 200% damage, that is your biggest downfall. You need to learn how to switch out of combo mode and into killing mode. You HAVE to beef up your edge gaurding game, tilts are good against marths even if they sweet spot, and if they dont sweet spot use the up B on the ground. Up B on the ground sends your oppenant sideways and down (thats EXACTLY the right direction when edge gaurding) so learn to use it on people who dont sweet spot. Look for vertical KOs via the airial Up A and the in certain rare instances, the up B in the air (in general the up B is hard to avoid and can land a killer last blow, but if you miss the last hit, or miss with the move at all your screwed, so only use when you know it will hit).

You spammed the smash attacks a bit much, links smashes are (imo) rather shi^ty. All of them have more than one hit, when one hit would have been better, the over smash has that terrible second hit that most people will predict and punish. Stay away from it. I find his up smash is also bad since the first hit does low damage and knocks the enemy just far enough away that they dont get hit by the lethal third hit. If you use the the up smash your basicly useing it for the third hit by itself, so its just a normal smash with a huge windup time, rendering it (for me at least) useless. The down smash is the only smash really whorth useing, you used it well most of the time, the only time I felt you over used it is when you used it to edge gaurd the marth who had failed to sweet spot, as you saw, all it did was knock him up into the air and not to his death, use the Up B instead.

Instead of spamming the smashes look into link's tilts, thier much better IMO.

Learn what to do after grabbing, that is a key to every char in the game since a simple grab does little damage but a grab into a combo has infinite potential. I saw many times you grabed, up threw and then let the marth come back to the ground. I "think" the down throw is better for comboing but I could be wrong, im sure someone here knows what to do out of grabs, so just look around. Learning to do 20-30% damage out of every grab would have put you a stock up in both those rounds so look into it.

One tiny last thing, fast fall your SHFFLs a bit more, most of the time you were spot on with the SHFFLs but there was a few times you didn't fast fall.

In any case, your good, and your link would be a great match for mine, im no pro, so you might not want to take my word for.

The marth - Read a guide, its not so much what your doing thats bad, its what your not doing, your game play would jump up so much if you just took a day to sit down and learn how to use marth correctly. Im sorry if this sounds condescending, I'm not trying to be that way, its what you need to hear though.

sorry for misspelling and such, no time to proof read.

 

[Squeater]

Yeah I agree. I am reading some of the marth techniques in the forum and watching some videos on youtube.

Don't worry about sounding condescending or patronizing; I didn't post the video to look like a pro, I wanted people to give me constructive criticism so I can improve.

 

[Frozenserpent]

the over smash has that terrible second hit that most people will predict and punish. .

You know, you have the option of choosing whether or not to use the second hit. -.-'

 

[skuzzel]

You know, you have the option of choosing whether or not to use the second hit. -.-'

True, but the first move has alot of lag on its own because of the option to use the second swing, at least thats what I always thought, the only up side is that your not completely defenseless because you can use the second swing if they attack you from the front, but the smart player with just shield grab you when use the forward smash.

could be wrong, my link is not very good.

 

[Frozenserpent]

Well, i watched the link videos.

What kept standing out is that several times you used the "wrong" throw (upthrowing marth when you don't follow up from it). you can easily do a down throw into uptilt into up-b/uair, on marth instead of upthrowing him too high.
Also, I noticed in the link that you failed to edgeguard him properly, by dsmashing him instead of something else (thus letting him live when up-b/fsmash would have done better). Personally, i think you should use up-b more. It's really a great move, although easily punishable.
Since he counteres so much, you can always punish his habits by just pausing a bit (if you're expecting a counter), waiting for the counter, and then just dair or uair him away.

As for the marth... you tend to use poor moves for the situation, such as dair, neutral b, and counter. Instead, you should focus on working on your aerials and your wavedashing. You are simply a big sucker for shieldgrabbing. you should learn to wavedash, shuffl, and grab more if you're playing marth.

Eh, well, good luck to your ganon.

 

[DynamicDuo]

I can't comment on them cuz ppl already told u everything.

 

[Luck-NYC/NJ]

ur not a noob but ur on ur way of leaving noob-dom. the marth is still in roll-dodgy land but u showed potential. Ur ganon has got the grits try not to roll all the time. make more combos ur hits were to random they were just random punishments ganon is great for combos cuz all his attacks send his opponent in the air. shuffle those up airs and dont let um come down. otherwise good luck training.

 

[Blackshadow]

Thanks for all the advice everyone, I'm taking it all onboard and am practicing right this minute

If you want to add anything else, then please do.

BTW we might make another set of videos within the next month or so if anyone is interested.

 

[petoo0]

well i just watched the first video and the first thing i would like to say is you might want to play a Marth who doesn't get awarded stale moves every round. All he did was f-smash and charge his shield breaker move....lame. But since your the one asking for advice ill stop flaming the Marth now. For starters you may want to try to follow up your F-airs with tech chase F-airs or rising U-airs. The main problem i say with your Ganon is you kept killing Marth vertically....it is so easy to kill Marth once he is off the stage. U-air is the best edge-guard ever. Practice that. But again i only saw the first vid.