R.O.B. Matchup Analysis #3 - Zero Suit Samus

[GwJ]

UPDATE: Matchup threads will now be regularly posted every Monday evening to keep ourselves on a schedule so we don't end up forgetting about or neglecting these.

Post y'alls ZSS matchup info.

Pulled from the OP of our matchup thread:

Zero Suit: 40:60 - ZSS has incredibly good setups on us. Firing a paralyzer at the correct distance can often leave us in a no option scenario where we cannot punish her unless we predict the shot and short hop over it into fair (a charged one might catch ROB's huge base though). ZSS's upb off the ground is frame four, has a large hitbox and reduces SDI to 0 starting on the third hit. This means if you do not slip out right away, it can and will kill you even at around 90 percent if she has good rage. She can do it to punish ledge rolls, ledge get up and ledge attacks, making us very vulnerable at the ledge. Much like bouncing fish, her down b can be used to mvoe over ROB's projectiles, but is not as fast. I don't recommend trying to challenge it with a fair due to excessive amounts of invincibility and the fact that the kick part of the move beats our aerials. You are better off shielding and then punishing immediately with a usmash out of shield or fair. If she foolishly charges a paralyzer while you are not engaged in anything, robo-spin will reflect and freeze her, allowing you to follow through into the uppercut of it. Be aggressive in this matchup. You will not usually win at trying to camp. She can snatch gyro easily with lots of her approaches, even on accident (mostly her ff nair and dash attack will do this to you the most). Uair is not as effective on her. It will sometimes trade with her dair even when it is not in the diving variant, and her nair is quite large if you come from the wrong angle. Use air for your early combos, but I recommend getting kills through gimps, reading her recovery and continually poking her back off of the stage. Be very careful of her down b if you ever get below her off stage on accident.

Edit: if you are comfortable grading the matchup, please do so in a xx:yy format.

 

[Trekkerjoe]

A ZSS that down-airs excessively is easy to punish. Just shield it, and punish with a grab or a smash attack. Just make sure it comes out quick, the landing-lag does not give you much time. Also, try to avoid aerial combat unless you are forcing her off the ledge. Her up-air is powerful, but ZSS recoveries need to be used with precision, thus she tends to self-destruct if you keep forcing her to recover. If you think she will use her projectile, side-b. If you reflect her own projectile into her, that is a guaranteed punish with the side-b's uppercut.

 

[GwJ]

I also forgot to mention an important piece of information I learned regarding ZSS's Up B. At Apex I played @Shaya and he said that if you're fast, you can technically SDI out of the first hit of her Up B (I imagine you'd SDI up and towards ZSS), but if you miss that initial hit, you're more or less stuck in it. ZSS can drift a little bit in her Up B and follow your DI.

 

[RBreadsticks]

What do y'all think about rotor arm in this matchup? it has some efficacy in reflectoring her paralyzing shenanigans im not sure though can she tether grab through it? I don't have much experience facing GOOD ZSS so I'm wondering how rotor arm does in the MU against someone who knows what they're doing.

 

[GwJ]

Most likely really bad. If you get it, zero suit takes some damage but the ending lag is too long to do any more. If you miss, you get punished any way they want.

 

[Mister Eric]

Best way to use arm rotor in general if you don't want to eat a hard punish is to either do it when you have a gyro to retreat behind if you don't initially connect, or do it to catch their landing. Worse case on the latter is that you eat an aerial bc the only way to get around that situation is to challenge it.

 

[RBreadsticks]

Best way to use arm rotor in general if you don't want to eat a hard punish is to either do it when you have a gyro to retreat behind if you don't initially connect, or do it to catch their landing. Worse case on the latter is that you eat an aerial bc the only way to get around that situation is to challenge it.

Pretty off topic but do you see any efficacy in using rotor arm for punishing spot dodges? I've been using it for that in low level play but I don't want to form a bad habit when o start going out to tournaments.

 

[GwJ]

if you are comfortable grading the matchup, please do so in a xx:yy format.

 

[Kyussbm]

Arm Rotor is not a great move in this matchup in my experience other than when she fires her blaster recklessly (too close to you) and you can reflect into her and capitalize by continuing the move into her while she's in stun, getting you a launch that you can follow with an aerial, or some time to charge a gyro/reset.

It can be tough to deal with ZSS, as she has speed and range to get through a lot of ROB's traps. Pay a lot of attention to your DI if you're launched- make it hard for her to land up-airs and up-Bs as if you're complacent she'll end your stocks early. ZSS is really strong and can combo ROB hard compared to most of the cast, but your camping game is still intact in this matchup and she's still susceptible to most of ROB's BnB tricks. Use your tools for damage building (projectiles, d-throw u-air) and then try to punish reckless dairs and such with usmash/dsmash. I find usmash to be very useful as a read move in this matchup, especially.

 

[Crome]

Bumping this thread with some info, also this is a really important MU and it got like 5 posts. I don't have much experience with the MU, but I figured out the proper way to DI her Up B.

High percents on stage - down and towards (assuming she's facing left)

Low-Mid percents high above stage - down and away (assuming she's facing left)

Here's a really good guide about general anti-zss tips - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1aSh5m478k

 

[Jams.]

I'll quote what 8bitman said about this matchup when I asked him. It's bleak, but maybe people can disagree and I'll learn something about this MU.

I picked up Diddy about two months ago. I recommend picking someone up. I firmly believe it is ROBs worst MU. The more and more I played it with Nick Riddle, the worse it became. You can't really learn anything for the MU.

Something I'll add is to mix up DI on her dthrow and uair. Don't always DI away, as that is often the worst option. DIing behind ZSS can get you out for just an uair and a bair instead of the ladder. DI-ing dthrow away then the first uair behind her can also make it harder for her to get upb. This doesn't matter much against a good enough ZSS though. ROB is big enough and has the right combo physics for her to land uair->uair->upb every time.