Quick Draw's Advantages

[Betaz]

>.> completely true but it still stops QD and what you were trying to accomplish
(attacking, movement, w/e)...though I suppose if you were fighting DDD you could use it to block gordo's and such...but then you have the lag from blocking it with QD and it would have just been easier to air dodge/shield

but the point that I took DDD out of the list is because it still stops it...even though it may not necissarily HIT you out of it...

 

[Ussi]

there is no after lag. IT CANCELS THE MOVE... on the ground.


But the point is, QD is not gonna advance Ike's meta game when most of the cast can hit you out of it/projectile you.

It makes a great attack in doubles though xD

 

[ptown]

QD is so good.

if you don't see that, you are thinking too hard.

 

[Alus]

I've been seeing alot of posts about how Quickdraw is a move that everyone should avoid at all costs. And I have to say this is -not true-. I'm pretty sure this assertion rises from the fact that

1. It's predictable.
2. Horrible lag if hit connects.
3. Recovery-wise, it is easily gimped.

Yes, these are true. However, most moves Ike has at his disposable have alot of cons. The pros of Quick-draw, however, are actually quite good also.

1. Good for ledge-mindgames
2. If spaced correctly, great approach with little lag.
3. Can kill, like most of Ike's moves.

Just had to get this out here. I'm NOT saying that Quick-draw is "Omg, teh ultimat3 m0ve!"
I'm just saying don't disregard it completely.

ya i know how you feel... its the same with me and dt to many people focus on disadvanteges...even "reveal"problems... ones that dont exist.

its good for a recovery and btw QD cant really kill because of this great invention called a shield...

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I was hoping the people who think QD is a god sent would go check this but seems like I was wrong they just want to talk about how good a recovery it is.


http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=186616

 

[lajackson07]

I must begin saying I appreciate that you've toned the "noob" calling down.
I really have NO IDEA what posts you may be referring to. If you can remind me of these posts, I could explain what I meant by them because I think you're confused about what I meant in them. Noob is an insult to me because I suck at Halo. They would just say I sucked at Halo and never tried to help me. I still suck at Halo. If they called me noob, showed why they called me that, and helped me get better, I might feel better about it. They didn't. I completely stopped playing Halo except for laughs. You called me a noob for no reason beyond a single move in a video game. I didn't like that when people I knew did it so for you to have done the same thing and, in addition, never seen me play and known nothing about me to say it, I wasn't too thrilled.

Friendlies have to count because when you play somebody that's good, they're still good. You're right, some people may not try to reveal how they really play when money is on the line. They still know the fundamentals of Brawl and can play the game. People don't play with characters they completely can't play with or don't like to play with. I saying that these people are good and can't be completely be disregarded. You must also admit that some people still don't care, think they are going to beat you regardless, and play with their best character.
Quickdraw has the same uses in team, ffa, and one-on-one situations. It does the same thing and serves the same purpose irregardless. It's not better. You must mean there are more people to hit with Quickdraw. There are also more people to gimp you too. Ike needs whatever help in his metagame as he can get, no matter where it comes from. I really can't see Ike improving any more but if he does, it could come from anywhere. How can anyone say Quickdraw couldn't be it? People thought in Melee that there wasn't more to airdodging and look where that got to. Wavedashing revolutionized the entire gameplay of Melee.
I see no point in really further discussing Quickdraw because you agree with me (why the back and forth, I don't understand) and I've given all the information on Quickdraw I could possibly give.

 

[Guilhe]

Trash move

Please erase this post.

 

[Guilhe]

Trash move

You and all these other naysayers have effectively ruined a thread that had good intentions and possibly advances to Ike’s metagame.

What is Quick Draw but a variation from Fox’s side B? Fox has been in the SSB cast since N64 and no one has reported uses for his side B besides moving around quickly. And this seems to be repeating itself with Ike’s side B as well.

From someone whose opinion would matter to you more than mine: (quoted from "I write for my friends" - the complete Ike guide by Kirk and Empy.):

It's often used with utilt and called "The Grand Viper". However, using it with a jab is better, because once your opponent gets used to this grand viper thing, he'll just roll back. If you know that your opponent will be rolling back, a short hopped fair might do the trick though. All in all this move is great for mind games and spacing.

If an opponent rolls toward an Ike performing a QD, Ike will miss the hit and barren the roll, leaving Ike helpless during the ending lag and the opponent at point blank distance with the opportunity to land any move of his choice. How about that for The Grand Viper huh?

Quick Draw is inferior. We know. I know. You've expressed your opinion before on the matter and it was well received.

I still believe that QD isn't as useless as you say. All of your points are very valid and I don't disagree. That doesn't mean one should NEVER even think about using QD. Even if you are using it once or twice in a match, right there it shows the move is not useless. You may not use it barely at all, since Ike has better options going for him, but there are times where QD is the best thing to do, as rare as those times may be. And the fact that you wouldn't be using QD barely at all in the first place gives more reason to incorporate it for an added element of surprise...but that's debatable.

If there are more efficient ways for attacking your opponent rather than Quick Draw, QD is useless. The fact that we use it successfully once in a while does not prove its usefulness, it may be just a bad habit. Look at Soul Calibur series as an example: Characters have like a hundred moves at their disposal, but there are about 15 to 20 moves worth mastering for each character. I’m not saying QD is totally useless, mind you. I am just saying that Quick Draw fails as an attack, an approach and most of the time as a recovery.

QD is so good.
if you don't see that, you are thinking too hard.

I’ll let Falconv1.0 answer this one.

 

[IF4MF]

Really, the only way I see Quick Draw being effective, other than surprise attacks is finding a way to make sure he never hits the opponent. Like canceling the swing of the sword before it happens. Other than that, with good spacing, it can allow attacks almost immediately after he stops moving. Also, there's the slide which is best used with his AAA combo. Mind gaming opponents, like short hopping towards them, and then QDing back (kind of like empty short hops, but retreating backwards to take cover if they don't buy it).

Guilhe, sure there are better attacks than QD, but, it's not useless. It can be used to approach enemies sent diagonally upwards (even though if they're sent high enough, a dash can suffice). It can be used to retreat against enemies without projectiles. The attack fails more than the approach, that's obvious. I'm not saying it's still useful, but not that it's useless.

 

[Tenki]

I haven't followed this thread, but after playing against comboking, I've started trying to use Ike.

Someone please comment on the following uses I've had for QD:

1- approach feint: run toward opponent> sh (optional) > b-reversal quickdraw away from opponent > f-tilt or something toward opponent

2- edgeguarding at 120+%: Full charged Quickdraw is kinda nice because of landing/post-move(ledge attack, roll) lag. If they're smart and try to get behind me through the air, then I release and use other moves.


edit:
Oh, and it KO's vertically if they're holding towards you and sideways if they're holding away from you.

Vertical KO's are welcome against floaty, metaknighty characters, aren't they? `.`;

edit2:
Meh, I'd rather use eruption for the 'insta kill' on floaty chars.

wow, QD must really only be good on worse players/rare situational uses, huh ;__;

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

^lol did you read trough the thread and answer your own questions?

 

[Lex Crunch]

I find it most effective to use Quick Draw slightly above the ground so that all of the momentum propels you across the floor once you touch it (considering it's charged enough). Other than that, it charges infinitely, so if someone puts themselves in a compromising position, usually involving charging a move, you can prepare to immediately attack them very fast from a safe distance. It's a very situational move, though its supposed primary use isn't all that useful.

 

[ptown]

whenever i use the move, it always works.

you guys probably are just spamming or mashing buttons.

you guys and your theories.

 

[lajackson07]

What is Quick Draw but a variation from Fox’s side B? Fox has been in the SSB cast since N64 and no one has reported uses for his side B besides moving around quickly. And this seems to be repeating itself with Ike’s side B as well.

If an opponent rolls toward an Ike performing a QD, Ike will miss the hit and barren the roll, leaving Ike helpless during the ending lag and the opponent at point blank distance with the opportunity to land any move of his choice. How about that for The Grand Viper huh?

If there are more efficient ways for attacking your opponent rather than Quick Draw, QD is useless. The fact that we use it successfully once in a while does not prove its usefulness, it may be just a bad habit. Look at Soul Calibur series as an example: Characters have like a hundred moves at their disposal, but there are about 15 to 20 moves worth mastering for each character. I’m not saying QD is totally useless, mind you. I am just saying that Quick Draw fails as an attack, an approach and most of the time as a recovery.

I think Quickdraw is too different from Fox Illusion to call it a variation. The increased knockback and lag make Ike's more of a risk/reward attack. Fox's is just a spammable attack that, if used correctly, puts Fox too far away to be punished. They both are somewhat good for moving around though.

If you Quickdraw while your opponent is rolling, you are being stupid. If they roll away, use the attack to get close. If they roll to you, wait and hit them in the lag at the end of the roll.

There are more efficient ways for attacking, but Quickdraw is not useless.

 

[Tipzntrix]

I like QD for punishing a chracter rolling away from you. You' renot going to hit them with anything else.

 

[Nyjin]

Hey, I made a thread that lasted more than one page!

I win! Hurray!

*cough* Anyhooow. Quickdraw ftw. kthxbai!

Really, though, I've KILLED with Quick-draw. Won matches with it. Taken over countries! (2 of these 3 statements are true. Decide for yourself.)

What you guys keep saying is "Everything is better than quickdraw" which is WRONG. Let's say you don't use quickdraw almost at all, and it's FRESH. And uncharged quickdraw CAN and SHOULD be used to cover a short amount of distance with the intention to kill. I've used it, and it works. Sure, if it's blocked you can be punished. But, hey, so can almost all of Ike's other moves.

(Notice how I'm putting little spaces in-between what I say? Clever, huh? Like little rivers of text instead of walls! Hehe.)

I see all the reasons for why Quickdraw's bad (Horrible lag, low power in comparison to Ike's other moves, predictable). But, hey, it's great for mindgames (Ever just quick-draw from a dashdance or randomly back and forth across the stage? It's CLASSIC.)

I win. You all lose! Now to take over Lithuania.

 

[Alus]

quick draw is pretty bad... but a ike without quick draw is like gannon on lylat...fail...

 

[Falconv1.0]

Why the hell are we still discussing this garbage move is what I want to know.

It has way more risks than rewards, it's reward is garbage, (free jab, or a rather mediocre attack) and it's very easy to punish.


Lemme sum QD. You charge it up to go a certain distance, then you lose all ****ing control and hope to GOD that your opponent is a ******* and gets hit by it. That's it. Fantastic move.

Empy mentioned like 2 uses for it, and most people will never figure them out because they're too busy phailing to approach with it.

 

[Alus]

cant you like... aproach... simply by short hoping and spaming ariels?

 

[Kodachrome]

I'm tooling around with Ike some more in training, trying to be creative and find some helpful things.

You know, to expound upon the idea of using quickdraw for movement, edgehogging with a shorthop FROM THE STAGE with quickdraw is *much* faster than running to the edge and hugging. However, it's preeeeeetty risky if you're an idiot about it-you can also use it simply to get into a better edgeguarding position quickly by being on the ledge THAT much faster. Using this, you can go directly from the center of FD to hanging on the ledge. Possibly even further if you use an immediate double jump to charge longer until you reach the apex of your jump, but like i said...use it safely. If you prefer, I suppose an aerial quickdraw timed to slide to the edge does just as well, perhaps.

If I use quickdraw, it's usually to approach,*glares at falconv* get away to reset a situation, or in the air while anticipating an airdodge to punish. Uair is better for this, but i've found quickdraw does the trick pretty often, too. This + vertical knockback=nice.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

This has to be the only time I'm 100% on the same level as falcon.

edit: anyone ever notice that ptown only posts on threads that are looked down upon by the good Ike's? That may be the way to spot a bad move or bad topic.

 

[ptown]

this move is facking awesome!

i never miss with it.

and look, no tripping!

 

[lajackson07]

If you really think Quickdraw is bad, just humor me and try this.
Part 1: Fight someone that either doesn't have a projectile (maybe Marth, Metaknight, Sonic) or doesn't have much of a projectile (like Fox). If they have a good projectile, you probably shouldn't be using Quickdraw or maybe even Ike.
Part 2: Pull out Quickdraw any time in the middle of the match. Because you can hold it forever, just charge it and sit and watch your opponent.
Part 3: Most of the time, your opponent will just start getting scared and start shielding or spotdodging or rolling. If they roll, wait and hit them at the end of the roll. If they shield or sidestep, remain sitting. When they get their composure and realize you aren't doing anything, they will try to approach you aerially.
Part 4: If they try to get above you and Dair (or Nair or something of the sort) or behind you and Bair (or Nair or something of the sort), just use Quickdraw to get away. If they try to attack you in front with Fair (or Uair or something of the sort), unleash Quickdraw. I think Quickdraw outprioritizes a lot of aerial attacks because I haven't been hit but maybe a few times. If they air dodge, it is probably too close to the ground and air dodges that are too close to the ground seem to have landing lag. You can use Quickdraw after the dodge but they may have shielded by then. You can Quickdraw during the dodge but Quickdraw lag and the landing lag on the dodge seem to be about the same time and their lag will leave them open enough for you to shield or use your AAA, maybe an up tilt. Don't worry too much if they don't hit the ground, you just hold Quickdraw and can hit them with Quickdraw in the air after their air dodge too.

This is kind of cheap and kinda makes Quickdraw spammable. I don't do it a lot but it works all the time when I do it. If you and your opponent follow this and it doesn't work out, let me know and I'll test it out and I might actually call Quickdraw completely useless.
I have not went through all the possibilities that could happen if they don't follow this (I think if someone just walks up to you ready to shield then you might be screwed but no one has done that yet) or seen if something is wrong in this that I haven't noticed. I'm sure someone will catch on sooner or later to what I do with Quickdraw in those situations but they haven't yet.

And what happens when two Quickdraws collide?....
Just a thought.

 

[Empy]

You know, to expound upon the idea of using quickdraw for movement, edgehogging with a shorthop FROM THE STAGE with quickdraw is *much* faster than running to the edge and hugging.

If I use quickdraw, it's usually to approach,*glares at falconv* get away to reset a situation, or in the air while anticipating an airdodge to punish. Uair is better for this, but i've found quickdraw does the trick pretty often, too. This + vertical knockback=nice.

No it's not... if you run over the edge and fastfall while pressing backwards you grab the edge instantly the quickdraw through the air takes longer. You have to remember to count the time you waste shorthopping and going into the fall animation at the end of the moved distance. Also, if it's a close call situation using QD will send you falling helpless to your doom while with running the worse case scenario is fastfalling past the edge, but you can double jump and aether and make it back pretty easily.

And approaching with it is just to dangerous, people only think about projectiles but how about an opponent smart enough to just run straight into it and shield? Yes you can space it properly but how hard can it be for someone to just run forward, shield the hit and punish you for your slow swordswings etc..?

[...]

And what happens when two Quickdraws collide?....
Just a thought.

They cancel each other out and it becomes a match of who jabs first.

Anyway, you mentioned a lot about opponents reacting incorrectly to QD. Yes QD can be useful for opponents that mess up against it, however, that doesn't make it any more safe to be constantly using, because you might want to play a good opponent at some point and you'll lose pretty badly. Also, about charging it and being safe w/e side they approach and the priority over most aerials, an opponent could just jump towards you not doing an aerial trying to bait the QD and if you don't use it until they are so close they can't shield in time, they can probably double jump into an aerial as well.

 

[YagamiLight]

I'm not keen for Quick Draw, even though a voice inside of my head really DOES tell me there's something special about this move (Don't listen to those).

In any case, I usually use it for a few things in a match.

1) Rapid speed to jab combo, the quick draw throws off their timing on when you'd get there with a dash, and they most certainly weren't expecting a jab combo. It's nice to do this once in a while just to mix things and create the illusion of speed.

2) Random quick draws backward. Not truly random, of course, just if I see them rapidly coming towards me, a hop toward them and a Quick Draw back will give you plenty of breathing (And Forward Aerial) space.

3) This last one is a thing I like to do sometimes on DeDeDe. Essentially, if I knock him back far enough, he'll have to use the Super Jump thingamajig. I then rush to the center of the stage and beging charging QD. I try to hit him right before he hits the ground, it usually works. If he cancels it and tries to edgegrab, I usually still get him. If I barely miss him I'll just follow (Hopefully) with a Dtilt for a kill. If he lands on a platform->Up Tilt. If he is about to land on YOU, just flee.

 

[lajackson07]

Anyway, you mentioned a lot about opponents reacting incorrectly to QD. Yes QD can be useful for opponents that mess up against it, however, that doesn't make it any more safe to be constantly using, because you might want to play a good opponent at some point and you'll lose pretty badly. Also, about charging it and being safe w/e side they approach and the priority over most aerials, an opponent could just jump towards you not doing an aerial trying to bait the QD and if you don't use it until they are so close they can't shield in time, they can probably double jump into an aerial as well.

Never really though about someone DOUBLE jumping over me.....
Usually if they get too close without doing anything, I will just let Quickdraw go. If they double jump, to me, that's the same as jumpng over me and I will have enough room to just Quickdraw away.

I'm play it safe when I use Quickdraw, I don't spam (or constatly use, whatever).I just like to use Quickdraw and watch people go berserk trying to dodge it.

What can I say?
They fear Ike.

I played people that I probably shouldn't have played with Ike against, like Sheik or maybe Metaknight, and lost badly but I won't just lose badly with Ike.

 

[Kodachrome]

No it's not... if you run over the edge and fastfall while pressing backwards you grab the edge instantly the quickdraw through the air takes longer. You have to remember to count the time you waste shorthopping and going into the fall animation at the end of the moved distance. Also, if it's a close call situation using QD will send you falling helpless to your doom while with running the worse case scenario is fastfalling past the edge, but you can double jump and aether and make it back pretty easily.

And approaching with it is just to dangerous, people only think about projectiles but how about an opponent smart enough to just run straight into it and shield? Yes you can space it properly but how hard can it be for someone to just run forward, shield the hit and punish you for your slow swordswings etc..?

Empy, your first paragraph is why I mentioned that this could be incredibly stupid at times (most, but especially in a race to the edge). However, it can be done from very far away...and it is most definitely faster than running into a hug from any significant distance. Also, I did mention that one could use it aerially to slide and then instantly hug-also from a long distance. Of course you're right, I know-it's just that I felt the need to clarify myself and show that I really never meant something so stupid.

Also, it should be noted that I said if I use it...it usually is for approaching-*not* I usually approach with it. Just another small point...that said, I agree with you-but I like to mix it up and throw one in there during at approach. Many times I wind up grabbing instead of jabbing, but the problem is that excellent spacing for jabs/tilts on the Ike user's part actually works against them, because the closer they are to their opponent, the easier it is to shield-slide or spotdodge into the attack. Of course, nobody should really be making the quickdraw that obvious by charging it, anyway.

What do YOU use it for?

 

[Empy]

Well they shouldn't double jump over you but instead save their double jump to confuse you whether or not they will be landing or double jumping. Also, it is still possible to just walk towards Ike and shield the QD when he let's go of it.

Edit:

Empy, your first paragraph is why I mentioned that this could be incredibly stupid at times (most, but especially in a race to the edge). However, it can be done from very far away...and it is most definitely faster than running into a hug from any significant distance. Also, I did mention that one could use it aerially to slide and then instantly hug-also from a long distance. Of course you're right, I know-it's just that I felt the need to clarify myself and show that I really never meant something so stupid.

Well the actual traveling might be faster and even more from greater distances but I really don't think the total time spend from leaving the ground to the actual invincibility frames on the edge are less than the time spend from initiating a dash to the same frames. Anyway, even if it would be slightly faster I really wouldn't recommend it.

Also, it should be noted that I said if I use it...it usually is for approaching-*not* I usually approach with it. Just another small point...that said, I agree with you-but I like to mix it up and throw one in there during at approach. Many times I wind up grabbing instead of jabbing, but the problem is that excellent spacing for jabs/tilts on the Ike user's part actually works against them, because the closer they are to their opponent, the easier it is to shield-slide or spotdodge into the attack. Of course, nobody should really be making the quickdraw that obvious by charging it, anyway.

What do YOU use it for?

Well that first sentence does make a big difference. Anyway, I think nearly everyone knows by now that a QD without sword swing can get some follow ups, but most people I play will make sure you swing that sword when you use it, you don't have to have amazing reflexes even if it's uncharged. Unless it's so far away that they can't possible reach it, but then it wouldn't really count imo, as you still have to use something else to approach, it would just replace running for a sec.

What I use it for is mostly to follow after opponents that I hit with an air attack. To get away from opponents or in some cases to attack an opponent that tried to do an aerial on me but missed or I airdodged, while fair can't reach and there is few time to punish.

But I really don't use it that often, I think there are more matches when I don't use it than matches where I do.

 

[Matamune]

Its the same as any other move. If used correctly it will work WONDERS for you. But if you mess up there will be punishment.

 

[benaji261!]

Its the same as any other move. If used correctly it will work WONDERS for you. But if you mess up there will be punishment.

I use it for mindgame purposes/get damage dealt.

 

[bladeboys]

Its the same as any other move. If used correctly it will work WONDERS for you. But if you mess up there will be punishment.

You can use it to espace too.

 

[theeboredone]

How about people who try to bring up dead topics which could just be easily answered in Ashu's?

 

[benaji261!]

How about people who try to bring up dead topics which could just be easily answered in Ashu's?

no u bored

 

[Judo777]

I play Ike sometimes and i actually rarely use QD but i always gotta wonder. Why is it such a bad move if you have time to fully charge it and ur opponent doesnt have a projectile i can't think of what they can do. The fact that u can charge it infinitely makes it good imo. It puts ur opponent in a very nervous spot. they cant just shield cause u can wait out the shield they they can run out of range but if they are out of range it doesnt have much lag so they can hardly punish plus most people do not know the range very well so they have to over compensate to be safe. If they jump behind u than u can just release it and now ur safe. They can roll around and spotdodge like crazy but thats just them hoping u dont time it right. Is there something i dont know about it?