Quasi-useful technique for all characters

[Leterren]

*To skip the long and rambling introduction, start at the paragraph with the asterisk* in front of it.

I'm not on the boards often but I do know my stuff, and I noticed that anyone could perform this move while playing. It's worked with every character I've tried so far (most, so presumably all).

If anyone else has already posted this, then sorry for not noticing. I've looked around and see no mention of it, so I figured I'd write it here.

I don't want to be pretentious and give it a name yet, and I don't even know of its practical application. I know I've used it some even though it's moderately hard to pull off.

My style of play involves lots of charging my opponents but grabbing them, because I noticed that almost no-one expects charging grabs, but sometimes they do anticipate it, and that's when I discovered whatever this may or may not be already called.

I only play with a Gamecube controller, so I don't know if this will work with the other styles of play. I suspect that it does...

*...Anyways, when you press Z to grab an opponent, if you slam back on the control stick before the grabbing animation begins (you have to press Z and back at what seems to be almost simultaneously), you perform a back roll, as if you pressed R-back or held Z until the shield appears then press back. But this is before the grabbing, so if you try to grab someone but at the last instant realize it wouldn't succeed, you can roll back to plan your next move.

Please let me know if this has already been posted and if so, where it is. (I don't want to start my Smashboards career looking like an idiot O_o)

 

[SuSa]

It's called a Pivot Grab don't know where the thread is... but I use them a lot if I've used Fthrow a lot to get them off a cliff, and I need to use a Bthrow, or even just for mindgames and quick turn arounds (for those who can quickly turn)

 

[Magik0722]

do you cancel out the grab animation? if not, then this is simply just a roll

 

[Mr.Victory07]

So just roll back and grab?

 

[Samsquamptch]

well known on the IC forums as you can use it to desync

 

[Sosuke]

No one expects a running grab?
harharhar

But yes, pivot grab.

 

[Samsquamptch]

Isn't a pivot grab just running and grabbing the opposite direction?
This is nothing like that, it entails starting a grab then rolling out of it.

The window for this is such that for most practical purposes you would have to be intending to do this rather than simply reacting to your opponent.

 

[0RLY]

I believe the OP is saying you can run and grab. If you hold Z during the grab, you can roll away if you missed the grab because the grab button doubles as a shield button. It's not special or anything, but it's helpful if you don't want to strain your fingers by moving your index finger all the way from Z to R. /sarcasm

 

[Leterren]

0RLy is close, but Samsquamptch has basically the right idea. It's not a pivot grab, but after pressing Z, before you grab, you roll dodge backwards. You don't need to hold anything down, in fact I find it's easiest to pull off by just tapping Z and the control stick.

Oh and I may be wrong about hitting back before the grabbing animation begins. I do know that you have to press back really really fast and from memory it was before the grabbing animation (When I created the thread I didn't have access to my Wii but I can go check it out and see). It may in fact be before the grabbing animation begins, but it also may just be within X amount of frames...

I also am not sure if characters with tether grabs (Toon/Link Zero Suit/Samus) can pull it off. I can also double check that.

*Edit: I went to my Wii and checked all this out...
|
V

 

[Leterren]

Ok I went to my Wii and tested out some stuff with this. It is before the grabbing animation begins, so you basically have to press back and Z at the same time, not one after the other.

It doesn't work while running (you just end up doing a pivot grab), what you do instead is you have to stop running (ie let go of the control stick) but it works during the frames that you come sliding to a standstill. While you're not inputting movement, you press back+Z at the same time and it should work. So it should work when you're sliding to a stop, or during [any gliding character's] wingdash, etc.

I tested it out with all the tether Z characters (Toon/Link ZS/Samus) and Olimar and it works with them, too.

I also learned that when you press back+Z you'll grab any items on the ground next to you as you roll (I learned this while testing Zero Suit; she picked up the pieces of armor left on the ground).

One more minor characteristic I discovered was that if you hold Z during the roll, the instant you finish rolling and stand up, your shield is up, just like if you roll dodge with R and kept holding R.

This may have some strategic value as you can pick up items while rolling back, which you normally can't do with R.
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Please let me now if anyone else has confirmed this or already discovered it <:| and what you all think.

 

[Moustachio]

I *think* I remember you mentioning this thing one time we were Brawling but I didn't understand it much. Now with this explanation I understand where you're going with this and it is definitely not a pivot grab. I'll test it out as soon as I have access to the TV. If this hasn't been found out yet then good find, otherwise if it has been then oh well.

 

[TheDuplexDuo]

Not a Pivot? Now I'm curious! Is there any possible chance of a video?​

 

[Leterren]

Sure I;ll see what I can do, but it looks as if you're really just doing back-R, so I guess I'll just have to hold my hand up to the screen so you can see it's back-Z. I'll also show with picking up items.

But this is all if I can get a video. I don't know if I have a good enough camera if at all.

 

[ShadowLink84]

It isn't really new(Ive known this for ages) but it can be useful.

It is not a pivot grab in case anyone is wondering.

Basically its a Dash and then dodging backwards excpt you are using Z (which is read as R+A in game)

 

[Pearl Floatzel]

Look, people, there is no grab.
What he's saying is that you run, you realize you shouldn't grab (You'll whiff, you're about to be hit by DDD's charged FSmash, etc.) and, instead of using R to roll, you just hit Z and a direction on the control stick. Because the Z likes to think that it's the R button, you roll. It has all the properties of the R button, but you can't do it while you're running. It works if you just let go of the control stick and hit Z and the opposite direction, instead of being able to throw the roll or shield out mid-run.
The only benefit to this methinks is that you can grab items at the beginning of a roll.

Sadly, it's not new.

 

[Leterren]

Alright I just wanted to make sure it was known as I haven't seen it anywhere.
'S all good.