Punishing with Pikachu

[[FBC] ESAM]

Hey guys, I just wanted to make another thread to maybe give some life to this board. I want to make a list of moves and how they are punished.

I would rather not make an ENTIRE LIST OF EVERY MOVE IN THE GAME, but it would be cool if you guys posted certain attacks and I could find the best way to punish them at whatever %s (I would do low, mid, and high)

 

[Syko_Lemming]

Definitely marth's Dtilt. Then snake's uptilt.

This is assuming they hit our sheild, right?

 

[Pikabunz]

You can easily dash grab or dash upsmash after shielding Snake's Utilt.

You have a 20 frame advantage after blocking his Utilt, so it's even possible to fsmash him, but I'd still rather upsmash or grab.

 

[PZ]

ZSS dsmash?

 

[GreenAce]

Are there any other good pikachu's yet? Or is Esam still carrying everyone.

 

[Pikabunz]

ZSS dsmash?

There's no guaranteed punish for ZSS' dsmash on shield, but you can try to predict what they'll try to do next and punish based on that. Dunno what else to say about it. :/

 

[z00ted]

lol dair .

 

[Conviction]

Fox's AC'd Bair.

 

[Pikabunz]

Just stand there and grab since that Bair will just go over Pikachu's head.

 

[Nordal]

Which of Metaknights attacks are we guaranteed an up smash punish after block? All I really know of is front swing down smash, shorthop Nair, and completed f tilt (which they never do). I've up smashed his f smash and d tilt before but I'm not sure if that was him being slow or what...

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

So I'm guessing I should do this on PShield and regular shield. I'm pretty sure marth's D-tilt is unpunishable on regular shield.

Snake's u-tilt we can dash u-smash for sure (I saw Prime do it against megafox).

ZSS's D-smash we can't get anything unless we PShield it...it is even frame advantage. If she D-smash jabs...we can't get anything. It's annoying...

 

[z00ted]

did you seriously infract me for saying dair

 

[Roller]

What's the best method of punishing snake's ftilt on normal and power shields respectively?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

If you are close enough I think you can grab him between F-tilt 1 and 2, regardless of which shield.

Other than that, you can dash U-smash OOS (I'm assuming we aren't PShielding hit 2). Not actually guaranteed but FHing a T-jolt is nice for pressure.

I think you can grab it as well.

BTW, I'm not going to talk about frame data in this thread. I'm talking about what is somewhat easy to do, not what is possible if you do everything super perfectly. When Nick Riddle comes home I will actually test stuff instead of just playing it in my head.

 

[PZ]

Ok but pshield fsmash sounds god like can that be there:O(snake's ftilt relation on 2nd hit)

How do you punish g&w's bair in all forms getting hit and shielding?

I think ik we di up if we are getting hit then nair or maybe fair but idk wut to do if its your shield when he lands the final hit with bair... Also if for the hit of bair if he lands on the ground with it which I have no idea wut to do either...

 

[Nordal]

I used to punish MK's mis-spaced glide attack with OoS Nair (still do of course), but I've been switching it up with up smash OoS and the results have been fantastic. Often you're by the ledge so if they do manage to shield it, they get pushed back off. I usually don't grab because quite frankly, I don't feel like eating a down smash when they roll behind to avoid the grab (which you can punish with drop shield-> up tilt!).

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Peach fair and Lucario fsmash

 

[PZ]

Peach fair and Lucario fsmash

If their spacing correctly you can't do anything unless you pshield(options for ps are all tilts and uair/nair) lucario's fsmash has slightly more lag so idk.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

It's impossible to punish Lucario's F-smash without powershield...

On P-shield you can run U-smash or dash attack. Grab is risky, But I think you can do it. Just don't whiff as he tries to pivot f-smash again...

 

[THuGz]

Can you make posts on the spacies/cg'd chars on which moves to get a grab in off of?

 

[*Cam*]

How do you punish Marth's fair and nair on shield?

 

[Nordal]

How do you punish Marth's fair and nair on shield?

It really depends on the spacing. Anything poorly spaced will eat a Nair OoS, but if he's spacing them then you can't really do much about them ( at least when he spaces Fair/Nair on your shield). Nair can be F smashed when he's landing and I think you can dash attack it as well. For Fair it's another story that's a lot more complicated due to spacing, whether he's landing with it etc.

I think punishing is one of the major plateaus players have to cross to become better. I remember when I was really bad (well worse than I am now), I tried to punish EVERYTHING out of shield and just sat in my shield all day long and got *****.

 

[*Cam*]

It really depends on the spacing. Anything poorly spaced will eat a Nair OoS, but if he's spacing them then you can't really do much about them ( at least when he spaces Fair/Nair on your shield). Nair can be F smashed when he's landing and I think you can dash attack it as well. For Fair it's another story that's a lot more complicated due to spacing, whether he's landing with it etc.

I think punishing is one of the major plateaus players have to cross to become better. I remember when I was really bad (well worse than I am now), I tried to punish EVERYTHING out of shield and just sat in my shield all day long and got *****.

Oh, I'm certainly not saying you can punish everything out of shield. Certainly, you can't. But I think the problem sometimes with Pikachu is that we are pushed into a no-win situation because of our range. If we shield, we'll get destroyed and we also get destroyed if we don't shield. I feel like the only thing to do if we are facing Marth or Lucario is to back off and wait for them to screw up.

 

[Nordal]

Marth is a completely different story from Lucario. Marth has no projectile. Force him to approach. But bring up a specific situation, this is a punishing thread, not necessarily a matchup thread.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Wolf:

All landing aerials besides spaced bair
All tilts
All hits of jab
Shine

Falco:
All aerials, regardless of spacing (Maybe need to dash grab)
All tilts except for MAYBE super spaced f-tilt
In between jab 2 and 3 I believe
Pivot grab phantasm


That's about it lol

 

[Voltz]

Are there any other good pikachu's yet? Or is Esam still carrying everyone.

Well, Anther is known as the best Pikachu in the world, and ESAM is considered 2nd.

 

[*Cam*]

Wolf:

All landing aerials besides spaced bair
All tilts
All hits of jab
Shine

Falco:
All aerials, regardless of spacing (Maybe need to dash grab)
All tilts except for MAYBE super spaced f-tilt
In between jab 2 and 3 I believe
Pivot grab phantasm


That's about it lol

This is assuming we shield it, right?

Well, Anther is known as the best Pikachu in the world, and ESAM is considered 2nd.

No, ESAM is definitely the number 1 Pikachu in the world now.

 

[PikaForLife]

Well, Anther is known as the best Pikachu in the world, and ESAM is considered 2nd.

since when does Anther plays again lol...he hasnt played for a looong time.


what about kirby's dtilt&Fsmash? i had some trouble with kirby so just askin.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

D-tilt spaced is probably unpunishable.

F-smash You can punish with U-smash OOS, or I believe F-smash.

Of course I'm talking about on shield...it is extremely difficult to punish things when you get hit away from your opponent...

 

[*Cam*]

Lol, well, you could have meant if they use it when you are just barely out of their range.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

True, but I'm talking about on block.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

I feel like I should do a really strong training session and learn a ton of common moves so I can powershield them all.

What about metaknight's dtilt if that hasn't been done already?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

You can shield grab it if you are close enough. Otherwise, nothing.

 

[PZ]

You can shield grab it if you are close enough. Otherwise, nothing.

I heard that getting hit by a dtilt at low percents(if it doesnt trip) actually leaves mk in a disadvantage or in our case since pika is very light really low percents.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Hmm....i'm not sure about that. Normally I get hit by F-tilt or grab before I get d-tilted.

 

[Nordal]

What's your opinion on the best punishment for shielding the backswing of mk's d smash? I've seen you up smash it before, but it seems difficult to consistently do so I just normally dash grab.

 

[Pikabunz]

Dash upsmash and dash grab aren't that much different since they both come out on frame 9. At low percents you want to go for a grab and at kill percents you upsmash. I normally don't try to punish the backswing cause of how little time you have to react to it.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

If you aren't comfortable punishing it, you can just jump retreating T-jolt.

 

[Tagxy]

You can jab mks dtilt if youre caught in it. Better than getting grabbed. You also might be able to oos dair, althought if he expects it it can probably be punished with most aerial attacks.

And can you really punish snakes ftilt (second hit) and utilt without powershielding? Unless Im right next to him Im always knocked too far.

 

[Ussi]

Is dash grab's ranged warrented to be used over dash shield grab? Cause dash shield grab is faster otherwise.. :x (low traction main so dash grab is useless to me)