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Project M

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Flopjack

Smash Rookie
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Jun 4, 2012
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Hey everyone, I'm new to the forum, a big smash fan and wanted to share a couple of things with the community. (I apologize if this is not the correct location for this thread.) Congratulations on the extremely awesome work so far on the project. Keep up the great work! Regarding that, I have some questions and suggestions for Project M.

Questions:
-How is the reception of the pro Melee and Brawl scene of the mod? How about our Japanese friends?

-Are there any plans to address the legal issues surrounding the project? Currently, it seems a lot of event hosts are uncomfortable with the modded nature of the game due to legal concerns.

-Has this mod received Nintendo's blessing? Any word from them on the mod?

-Are there any plans to bring back melee characters removed from Brawl? (Mewtwo, Roy, Dr. Mario?)



Suggestions:
First let me preface these suggestions by admitting I'm not pro, but at a mid level. Second, I understand that the intention of this mod is to make is more like melee. Having said that, I think these are items that should be seriously considered moving forward.

-Unique move sets. I understand Falco is different from Fox, but to be perfectly honest not enough. Using a similiar move set to Brawl with Melee-esq attributes would be great in my personal opinion. More diversity is a welcomed thing and the more we have the more likely Project M will grow. Varying characters have varying degrees of copied moves, but Falco/Fox is one of the most noticeable.

-Air dodge ledge grab. I'm not sure how to explain this specifically. I think this happens when one tries to tech (I think that's the right term) after being attacked. Your character will slide across the ground and when the shield tech executes you are over the ledge, preform an air dodge and fall to your doom without grabbing the ledge. To low and mid level players, this is very frustrating. To pro this is nothing, but I believe this should be more lenient. I'm outlining this instance of not grabbing the edge specifically, rather than just asking for magnet edges or whatever you want to call them.

-Shield canceling aerials to reduce animation should be removed. Essentially, if you preform an aerial attack while landing, there is an animation delay that can be minimized by press L or R at the moment you hit the ground. This should be removed. If you are not presenting the player with a choice there shouldn't be an action expected of them. This is game design 101. There is no reason you wouldn't want to press shield each time you land, therefore the animation should automatically preform at the appropriate speed.

Imagine, if you will, an FPS game where if you press a certain button before each bullet is shot it receives a 10% damage bonus. There is no reason why you shouldn't try to press that button each time you fire a shot. This is an artificial skill ceiling and is not true game depth.



Thank you for your time!
 

hotdogturtle

Smash Master
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Although based on your suggestions, it would probably be better if you didn't bring them to the Project M thread.

Just warning you for your own good.
 

GP&B

Ike 'n' Ike
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Answers:
-Not super knowledge about reception, but 40k downloads says something. A lot of people love it.
-There are no legal issues with the nature of the project itself.
-lolnope
-If the clone engine ever gets completed.

Unique move sets: Top tier characters are not changing in any way outside of the most minute changes (exception being Sheik's DThrow). Ganondorf has Flame Choke and the swing on Dark Dive (the only two notable changes he got in Brawl). A lot of other "clones" (to use the term loosely) are already considerably different in P:M (like Toon Link).

Air dodge ledge grab: Input error on the player's part.

L-canceling: Moderators will swarm you on the spot for bringing up the L-canceling argument. It's been done way too much in the history of the thread and the team decided to keep it in.
 

Flopjack

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 4, 2012
Messages
3
Although based on your suggestions, it would probably be better if you didn't bring them to the Project M thread.

Just warning you for your own good.
I know how elitists can be. I probably won't bring it up there actually. I've got enough info from you guys.

I do have one more question: What is the main argument for keeping in the L-canceling?
 

VicViper

Smash Cadet
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I know how elitists can be. I probably won't bring it up there actually. I've got enough info from you guys.

I do have one more question: What is the main argument for keeping in the L-canceling?
It's not so much that there isn't a good reason for keeping L-Cancelling as there isn't any good reason for REMOVING L-Cancelling.

I mean, take a look at Guilty Gear, for instance. FRC's lie in the same realm of execution challenges that don't provide any decisions to make, but it doesn't really harm the game either way. It's still considered one of the best fighting games around.

You don't really gain anything for arguing for or against it because either way it doesn't really matter.

Also, Fox and Falco are certainly different enough as it is, and Brawl didn't do anything good towards making them more diverse. It reeked more of "OH HEY LET'S CHANGE HIM FOR THE SAKE OF MAKING HIM DIFFERENT" without really thinking deeply into the implications of those changes.
 

hotdogturtle

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
3,503
I know how elitists can be. I probably won't bring it up there actually. I've got enough info from you guys.

I do have one more question: What is the main argument for keeping in the L-canceling?
Project M is a game specifically designed around the mechanics of Melee. L-canceling is a mechanic of Melee, so it's part of the package, as removing it would go against the main intention of the game.
 

Flopjack

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 4, 2012
Messages
3
It's not so much that there isn't a good reason for keeping L-Cancelling as there isn't any good reason for REMOVING L-Cancelling.
I provided a good reason to remove it. If it's arbitrary keeping it or removing it, it's best to remove it. I used FPS to illustrate my point. Let me use a Smash example:

Imagine if they added another feature where if you press both shield buttons at the same time you could perfect shield on more frames and your shield lasted longer. Clearly this is the better option over pressing shield with just one button. All the pros would quickly learn to use both shield buttons as good as they use just one and you're left with something that creates only artificial depth. There is no option here. You just have to do it. It's not something that is key to what makes Smash a good fighting game. Neither is pressing shield each time you land.

As for Falco's changes, I really can't speak to that other than I just want to see diversity. I'm not sold on the idea of making him like he was in melee simply because he's similar to Fox and I think it would do everyone good to diversify as much as you can. It's not just changing things just to change things, it's more than that. After all, you don't want a Smash game with only Fox, do you?
 

Shadic

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As of 9/19/10, bringing up Manual L-Canceling vs. Automatic L-Canceling is an infractable offense.

Anything not related to Project M in any way will be infracted for Minor Spam. No exceptions. This thread is for Project M discussion, off topic stuff goes in the IRC.

Any discussion of P:M should go in its main thread anyways. Thanks.
 

Segtendo

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Locked. Just go the Project M thread to discuss it. Don't need it here.
 
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