Project M Social Thread

[Revven]

Shanus, I am trying to understand the blog post appropriately in regards to shield presses.

Are you saying that we are no longer able to lightly press the L/R triggers for shielding, wavedashing, air dodging, so on and so forth?

You can't light press for air dodges but you can light press for shields and it counts as a separate button. So instead of it constantly being in the way of wavedash and wavelanding timing like in the demo (because light pressing activates the air dodging) it doesn't affect those timings anymore because the air dodge can't be light pressed. On top of this, you can somewhat perform a wavedash out of shield if you full press one of the shoulder buttons and then light press the other (it'll make sense when you actually play it). You couldn't do this before because the shoulder buttons as a whole are counted as ONE button. And no, this still doesn't make L/R full presses separate buttons, only the light press is a separate button. So you still cannot full press L and then full press R to wavedash out of shield.

So you're still able to pull up a shield on a light press with L/R, just that it's now a separate button unlike before and air dodges aren't activated from a light press which makes wavedashing and wavelanding timings more akin to Melee.

Hope that makes sense for you.

 

[Juushichi]

I think it means you can. However, does changing the c-stick function change anything?

I know some people b stick and others tilt stick, so would you still be able to buffer rolls and such?

EDIT: Oh, I am guessing that it doesnt... but does full press vs light press register for non-GC controllers?

 

[ValTroX]

hmmm can you still L-cancel with light press?

 

[UltiMario]

I believe not.

This mean we're any closer to actual lightshielding, or does that still look impossible?

 

[Ecks]

That's a shame about the replays. Hope you can fix it. I actually preffered wavedashing with light press but I can make do.

 

[JCaesar]

Yes you can still L-cancel with light press. And you can wavedash OOS now (if you use both shoulder buttons to do so) as long as you don't press the shield button down all the way.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I don't think lightshielding will be possible until they can create articles.

 

[ManEg]

I knew that after getting LD fixed, blogpost 4 would pale in comparison, important nonethesless...how 'bout another of them double features?

 

[Ulevo]

You can't light press for air dodges but you can light press for shields and it counts as a separate button. So instead of it constantly being in the way of wavedash and wavelanding timing like in the demo (because light pressing activates the air dodging) it doesn't affect those timings anymore because the air dodge can't be light pressed. On top of this, you can somewhat perform a wavedash out of shield if you full press one of the shoulder buttons and then light press the other (it'll make sense when you actually play it). You couldn't do this before because the shoulder buttons as a whole are counted as ONE button. And no, this still doesn't make L/R full presses separate buttons, only the light press is a separate button. So you still cannot full press L and then full press R to wavedash out of shield.

So you're still able to pull up a shield on a light press with L/R, just that it's now a separate button unlike before and air dodges aren't activated from a light press which makes wavedashing and wavelanding timings more akin to Melee.

Hope that makes sense for you.

It does. I was asking to clarify because to be honest, I'd hope this wasn't true.

I'd hope I'm not the only one, but one of the biggest improvements I felt you guys had made to Project: M by comparison to Melee was the ability to air dodge (and thus wavedash) and use any other function related to the triggers with a light press. It allowed for smooth gameplay.

From what I understand, you had a function in the demo that allowed players to only activate the L/R triggers if fully pressed. Is there any way you can incorporate something similar somehow?

 

[JCaesar]

Yeah, it's called, "Hold down the trigger when you plug in your controller."

Alternatively, you can use the "Remove the springs from the trigger buttons" method.

 

[Ulevo]

So if I hold down the trigger when the controller is plugged in, I am able to air dodge via light press? This would be fantastic.

 

[shanus]

hmmm can you still L-cancel with light press?

Yes, we add in support for light presses wherever we want to. It's already been added in to everyone's special specific stuff, like ROBs gyro charge, etc. Very clean and simple.

 

[Ecks]

I knew that after getting LD fixed, blogpost 4 would pale in comparison, important nonethesless...how 'bout another of them double features?

Well, if they had saved Landing Detection and DI for last, we would have noticed them in the streams before the blogposts had been made.

 

[shanus]

Ulevo, for a period of time I had the same sentiment you had regarding light presses enabling an air dodge. However, I found at times that the reducded sensitivity occasoinally led to undesired airdodges, and also made the transition between the two games less seamless. The end change is subtle, but adds a lot fo the feel.

Basically, view these changes as ways now where we can get enhanced control of the engine. Basically, we can discern all the directions and inputs separately now, which is great.

Also, whoever said light shielding needs an article is not true at all.

 

[Vigilante]

Just saying, people, light press L-cancel was part of Melee, so they just got it Melee-level again.

 

[shanus]

Just saying, people, light press L-cancel was part of Melee, so they just got it Melee-level again.

Light press L-cancel was in the demo too. What this does is it lets us now know if your light pressing or full pressing, which lets us control air dodges or other things..

 

[Vigilante]

Oh, I know, I'm just saying that keeping it that way (for L-cancel) was intended.

 

[Ulevo]

Ulevo, for a period of time I had the same sentiment you had regarding light presses enabling an air dodge. However, I found at times that the reducded sensitivity occasoinally led to undesired airdodges, and also made the transition between the two games less seamless. The end change is subtle, but adds a lot fo the feel.

Basically, view these changes as ways now where we can get enhanced control of the engine. Basically, we can discern all the directions and inputs separately now, which is great.

Also, whoever said light shielding needs an article is not true at all.

While I agree that it makes the transition between the two games more seamless, I can't say I see how it invokes undesired actions from the player without the player themselves being accountable. That being said, I think the change is fine in of itself. I'd just like it if there was a method to allow the player to be able to choose between using light presses for all actions, and the standard method you've adopted.

Yes, I could remove the springs from my controller. I had planned to prior to the demo. However, finding I didn't have to was probably one of the single best enjoyments I had about the demo. I'd also like to mention that even the button presses without springs have more take than a simple tap with a light press; this means less fluidity and slower actions on the controller.

Either way, I understand your decisions. I'd just like to know if my question above regarding holding the trigger while plugging the controller in is true or false in regards to allowing light presses, and if not, if there is any way to alternatively support this feature.

 

[UltiMario]

Also, whoever said light shielding needs an article is not true at all.

Spoilers Blogpost 5 is Replay Fix and lighshielding?

 

[JCaesar]

So if I hold down the trigger when the controller is plugged in, I am able to air dodge via light press? This would be fantastic.

No, that's not what you asked. If you hold down the trigger, all trigger inputs require a full press, and light presses will be ignored (i.e. just like Brawl). If you remove the spring though, then the trigger buttons will work just like regular buttons and won't have a light press option, just a click. Or you can just get used to full pressing for an airdodge. Those are your options.

 

[Ulevo]

No, that's not what you asked. If you hold down the trigger, all trigger inputs require a full press, and light presses will be ignored (i.e. just like Brawl). If you remove the spring though, then the trigger buttons will work just like regular buttons and won't have a light press option, just a click. Or you can just get used to full pressing for an airdodge. Those are your options.

Ah, well that's unfortunate to hear.

As I said, I'd support it if there was an alternative method. I think a lot of players would.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Ecks]

Can light shielding be done by adding more imputs to the shoulder buttons (if that's possible) and adjusting the shield accordingly? Or is it more complicated than that?

 

[shanus]

Can light shielding be done by adding more imputs to the shoulder buttons (if that's possible) and adjusting the shield accordingly? Or is it more complicated than that?

Light shielding is complex. You need to first check if light press or full press and then adjust:

Shield Size
Shield Color
Shieldstun (and pushback - intrinsically tied)


And I think I'm forgetting something else.

 

[Juushichi]

I think it means you can. However, does changing the c-stick function change anything?

I know some people b stick and others tilt stick, so would you still be able to buffer rolls and such?

EDIT: Oh, I am guessing that it doesnt... but does full press vs light press register for non-GC controllers?

Can someone answer this?

 

[Ecks]

Light shielding is complex. You need to first check if light press or full press and then adjust:

Shield Size
Shield Color
Shieldstun (and pushback - intrinsically tied)


And I think I'm forgetting something else.

That sounds awfully time consuming.
But can you guys actually do that or is it impossible at the time?

Anyway, should you guys take a stab at it, good luck.

Edit: Can grabbing items with shoulder buttons be taken out? That really annoys me, specially when I accidentally grab Snake's nades.

 

[shanus]

As I don't b-stick I can't guarantee, but the way its coded I believe you should be able to buffer rolls regardless of what you assign the cstick.

@Ecks, can't say at this point - who knows what will be able to be done in the future

 

[MonkUnit]

@Juushichi - As the shield button command things aren't tailored to GCCs only, they just count as the shield mechanic button. I am sure the shield things work for non-GC controllers.

 

[Vigilante]

Although I will play it, I am in agreement of one thing. Light press air-dodge is quicker and allows for faster reaction time. I've never airdodged in an unintended fashion. At least, for me. But I'm leaving my oppinion out there, I'm not arguing about it. See it as constructive criticism. Take it or leave it.

It's not a dealbreaker for me.

 

[Revven]

Edit: Can grabbing items with shoulder buttons be taken out? That really annoys me, specially when I accidentally grab Snake's nades.

See: First post with a question similar to this. We tried a code for that as well and it too caused the same problems.

 

[Xebenkeck]

Edit: Can grabbing items with shoulder buttons be taken out? That really annoys me, specially when I accidentally grab Snake's nades.

This may be annoying to you, but it is a big thing to peach, link. diddy, ROB and ylink players that it remains in. Especially if Brawls instant throw remains in

 

[JCaesar]

Yeah I have to say, as a ROB/Peach player, the ability to grab items with airdodge/aerial is really great, at least to me.

 

[Ecks]

BestNess, isn't it the same if you airdodge and then grab the item with Z like in melee? It just bothers me that if an item is in the way I can't dodge because I'll grab it and I can't attack with A or C because I'll grab it too. If grabing the item with A or C stick is removed I would be happy. Just removing grab with A and leaving C grab (or vice versa) would be Ok with me though.

And my bad Falco. Didn't remember that.

 

[Deleted member]

Wow. Nice update on the blogpost. That's impressive.

The rate of fixes is awesome right now.

This does mean you guys are closer to fixing light shielding? correct?



Also, idk about picking up items with shoulder buttons and aerials so easily. It both removes and gives control over your character. Seems like a double edged sword.

I don't necessarily want to WD out of shield to pick up a turnip, gyro, or banana. I can think of other situations where it could possibly harm the strategy you chose, but then again, PM is a new game with a new metagame.

If you guys could implement picking up items as an option with a WD or whatever other methods there are, then that would be a good problem fix.

 

[shanus]

Although I will play it, I am in agreement of one thing. Light press air-dodge is quicker and allows for faster reaction time. I've never airdodged in an unintended fashion. At least, for me. But I'm leaving my oppinion out there, I'm not arguing about it. See it as constructive criticism. Take it or leave it.

It's not a dealbreaker for me.

In all reality, I doubt you'll even notice it lol.

 

[hotdogturtle]

I don't think that anyone would have cared about light-press air dodges if they weren't in the demo to begin with.

In reality, removing them was a bug fix, not a new feature. They were originally intended to be full-press only.

 

[Vigilante]

Lol Shanus, I notice it from Melee to PM. But as I said, it's a preference, and I'm aware I'm in the minority, and that I can get used to it again. I was originally a melee player after all.

 

[JCaesar]

Yeah, but you're kind of a special case VB. You hit the shoulder buttons with your pinky

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Ulevo, for a period of time I had the same sentiment you had regarding light presses enabling an air dodge. However, I found at times that the reducded sensitivity occasoinally led to undesired airdodges, and also made the transition between the two games less seamless. The end change is subtle, but adds a lot fo the feel.

Basically, view these changes as ways now where we can get enhanced control of the engine. Basically, we can discern all the directions and inputs separately now, which is great.

Also, whoever said light shielding needs an article is not true at all.

I thought you would need to be able to generate a new article to create a new kind of shielding that doesn't exist in Brawl. Don't you at least need it for the graphic?

 

[Vigilante]

Yeah, but you're kind of a special case VB. You hit the shoulder buttons with your pinky

Yeah, I'm special, which is why I'm not "complaining", XD. I play like less than 1% of the gamer population. I play smash the only manly way to play.

 

[slimpyman]

dang... i was really liking the soft airdodge. soft presses made me feel so in control of wavedashes ;-) hahaha i guess ill do that hold down trigger while you plug it in method! awesome find! hahaha i know im being greedy, but softshields would make a hardboner.