Project M Social Thread

[Cubelarooso]

On whoever is working on DK, I'm just wondering if there's any chance of him getting a roll to replace one of his moves.

I ask cause I always thought it was weird that he couldn't roll in Smash when he could in his own games.

they already gave him the roll for his dash attack

What about rolling off the stage, but still being able to use his first jump while in midair?
Or giving Diddy a cargo throw, or at least make him able to jump with heavy items? He's always been as good as DK at carrying barrels.
And what about Link's roll, or his jump attack, which have become his signature moves in the 3D games? Or all those Hidden Skills from Twilight Princess?
I could go on…

I know this game's goal isn't to make Smash more representative, but there's just so much that can be (and wasn't; and should have been) included.

 

[Anth0ny]

i asked santa for landing detection

 

[Shadic]

Just hope that Santarion doesn't give you coal instead.

 

[.Fade]

Just hope that Santarion doesn't give you coal instead.

^ i see wut u did ther

 

[B.W.]

What about rolling off the stage, but still being able to use his first jump while in midair?
Or giving Diddy a cargo throw, or at least make him able to jump with heavy items? He's always been as good as DK at carrying barrels.
And what about Link's roll, or his jump attack, which have become his signature moves in the 3D games? Or all those Hidden Skills from Twilight Princess?
I could go on…

I know this game's goal isn't to make Smash more representative, but there's just so much that can be (and wasn't; and should have been)
included.

I think the majority of us know this. But because he had a roll in his games and I figure most people agree his dash attack with the foot is ***** I wanted to know if there was a chance of it being changed. Same for side-B, the roll could easily become a side-B attack.

Much like Wario representing Warioland in P:M if you can put a move from their own game into smash and it helps their game, why not do it?

 

[Revven]

I have begun uploading videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/smk2

I think I have over 20+ or so?... Not sure. They won't all be up today but there's a few up right now so check'em out. Subscribe incase you may forget to check idk.

 

[Demon-oni]

Good stuff. I saw some of those already. Bowser is looking really solid now with his new/old side b. Those super armor frames really did something to make him a trickier character to play against.

Do you think it's possible that you could show us some face time of characters played very litte/ not at all? I understand we don't want to see characters that are nowhere near close to done, but it feels like I've only seen about seven characters total so far.

Edit: @ Locke
I'm pretty sure wavedash length is associated with traction. Those with less traction, get a longer wavedash. Those with good traction have really short wavedashes.

 

[Locke3]

I see how Lucas was melee-ified, but its really hard to place what gives someone that feel. You guys (from what I've seen) have done a really good job at meleeing sonic, too. Im really curious to see what will happen to some of the other characters (especially Olimar, my main >.<)
How do you determine things like wavedash length for people, and whatnot? Im really interested in how the choices are made on what to do to "new" characters.

 

[Sora-kun]

Ya i was curious on how they were deciding wavedash length too. From what i see Link has a decent one.. Maybe Young Link length? Thank god. I've always wanted him to have a decent WD.
I think everyone should at least have a semi usable WD. Like.. not 1 millimeter like some of them had >_>

 

[Vigilante]

One possibility is to associate wavedash with traction. I beleive that is how it was in Melee.

I don't kniw if traction was changed in any way in Project M.

 

[Rikana]

Wavedashing had a formula in Melee, I believe. Something to do with friction and jump speed? Somewhere along the lines of those.

 

[MonkUnit]

The closer to the ground you are when you WD, the further you go. Less traction will make you go further. That's why luigi's WD was so good.

 

[GP&B]

And it's the way Melee's airdodge decreases in speed shortly after using it that influences wavedash distance. Being closer to the ground means you're using the maximum speed of the air dodge into the ground and gaining your character's full distance with it.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Wave-dash length depends on 3 things:
• Traction
• Air Dodge Angle
• Height from ground

The lower your traction, the closer your air dodge angle is to horizontal and the lower you are to the ground, the better wave-dash you will have.

That's it.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^lower traction gives longer wavedashes.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Edited, cheers.

 

[Vigilante]

I'm not sure we can consider Luigi's wavedash "good" as opposed to "potent". I mean it goes far, but some like Marth's are more adapted to comboes. I would much prefer that Wavedash should follow the usual system; that is, it would feel more consistent.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm not sure we can consider Luigi's wavedash "good" as opposed to "potent". I mean it goes far, but some like Marth's are more adapted to comboes. I would much prefer that Wavedash should follow the usual system; that is, it would feel more consistent.

No, Luigi's wave-dash is objectively better than Marth's.

You realize you can control wave-dash length, right?

 

[Dantarion]

Luigis is hardest to control though.

Thats the disadvanage of having a long wavedash, you have to TRY to get short ones when you need them.

 

[Sora-kun]

The thing about air dodges losing speed.. Imagine if sakurai had given air dodges uniform velocity throughout the whole dodge. Then wave dashing would have been stupid easy and stuff.


Seriously though is Link's WD about equal to that of YL in melee? I must know.... o.e

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Luigis is hardest to control though.

Thats the disadvanage of having a long wavedash, you have to TRY to get short ones when you need them.

That's like saying that Sheik is better than Fox because she is easier to use.

Ease of use hardly makes it "better".

 

[Krautrock]

No, Luigi's wave-dash is objectively better than Marth's.

You realize you can control wave-dash length, right?

It's objectively better assuming perfect control.

 

[wiiplaya09]

It would be pretty fun if when you are being star ko'd, you control nana. That would make for some very exciting match ends, where popo is killed off the top and the nana is trying to kill the other person at the last minute.

You were saying...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLUH26wa4ek&feature=player_embedded

 

[GP&B]

Oh, this was asked a long time ago and it concerns Star KO's: is it possible to control Star KO's so that faceplants occur at later %'s while the background Star KO's occur at earlier %'s? It's not a big deal to me, but I'm wondering if this is possible. The reason is very situational and you could probably guess for the reason why, but again, just curious.

 

[Dark Sonic]

That's like saying that Sheik is better than Fox because she is easier to use.

Ease of use hardly makes it "better".

Controlling Fox to make him good is more feasible than making minute adjustments to Luigi's wavedash length. The control you'd need to make use of Luigi's wavedash for spacing, rather than just for moving, is ridiculous You can easily get medium-long to long wavedashes with Luigi, but getting medium short wavedashes with him (such as those needed to dodge a Fox nair but still be in range to punish it) is actually something I have yet to see ANYONE do.

There's also the issue of speed. Characters with more traction have faster deceleration, so their wavedashes are short bursts of speed over a small distance. However, just doing a "short" wavedash with a character with low traction would not produce the same result. Instead of a short burst of speed and an immediate stop, you'd have a more uniform movement, which is inherently less useful for dodging.

So no, a longer wavedash is not objectively better than a medium wavedash.

QED

 

[Deleted member]

This is unrelated to the length of the WD, but the frames for jump and airdodge also factor into how quickly the WD is done per character.

Hopefully this is looked at for characters like Link and Bowser.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It's objectively better assuming perfect control.

It isn't hard to control wave-dash length, perfect control is a gross over-statement.

If you main Ice Climbers or Luigi, or Mewtwo to an extent, it is VITAL to be able to control wave-dash length.

 

[Dark Sonic]

If you main Ice Climbers or Luigi, or Mewtwo to an extent, it is VITAL to be able to control wave-dash length.

Getting short wavedashes with Luigi is hard and for the most part Luigi players don't even bother with short ones. Mewtwo doesn't really care because he has a decent range d-tilt. Ice Climbers do not have a ridiculously long wavedash (their's isn't much longer than Marth's <_<) Actually....Luigi is the only character who I'd consider to have a wavedash that's "too long."

After a certain point a long wavedash is no longer useful for minute spacing adjustments and instead is only used for general movement. A character with a good dash dance range and speed wouldn't need such a wavedash. Luigi's wavedash is so useful for him because...his dash is terrible (not that I'm advocating giving him a good one).

 

[Demon-oni]

Actually, IC's wavedash is longer than Mewtwo's, albeit not much. They just don't care a lot because a good desync makes that long wavedash hard to punish.

Although I do agree with Dark Sonic. After a certain point, longer does not mean better. I'm not sure if Luigi's crosses that line though. That'd be up to those who knew him in melee.

 

[Vigilante]

I do know we can control wavewdash lenght, but ease of use can sometimes mean better in one way: Error rate.

Players are humans, therefore make mistakes. You can more consistently perform wavedashes appropriately with marth than Luigi. Under perfect conditions, Luigi's wavedash could be a very potent force, and it has been in many cases, but it can also backfire through erroneous input. The fault rests with the player, and not Luigi of course, but ease of use means less human error.

I consider that Luigi's Wavedash should be approached very differently from other character's wavedashes. I am no Luigi player, although I use him once in a while. But even at pro level, poeple do several Wavedash fails in a single match. I imagine that a wavedash fail with Luigi could be more costly in his case.

Mind you, I'm not arguing that Luigi's Wavedash sucks, but that it has a higher risk factor to consider.

 

[kaizo13]

well.....Merry HypeMas everybody~

 

[IYM!]

can someone give me a link of a Link or a Samus match of Project M?

i realy want see more link and see something of samus XD


ah, and i have a question

what happened with Zair? these moves still working as a spacing maker move? or not?

other question, the Zair an the others "chain" moves ( ZSS gun, lucas's snake, Shick chain) still workin like brawl ( to the ledge) or now is like melee?

 

[Sora-kun]

can someone give me a link of a Link or a Samus match of Project M?

i realy want see more link and see something of samus XD


ah, and i have a question

what happened with Zair? these moves still working as a spacing maker move? or not?

other question, the Zair an the others "chain" moves ( ZSS gun, lucas's snake, Shick chain) still workin like brawl ( to the ledge) or now is like melee?

They work on the ledge but sheik's doesn't. She doesn't need a better recovery.

 

[GP&B]

http://www.youtube.com/user/sugarhigh0815

MomoSugar plays quite a bit of Link, but I haven't seen much of Samus sadly and she even has her SWD back.

 

[Strong Badam]

man this thread bugs me sometimes. Nah dawg luigi's wavedash is hard to control it's not like you can't angle your control stick to change the direction of the air dodge bro.

in other news I received a USB Gecko SE for Christmas. :O

 

[standardtoaster]

in other news I received a USB Gecko SE for Christmas. :O

<Strong_Bad> man this usb gecko is amazing and I haven't even done like anything with it yet
<Strong_Bad> yeah I've been taking pictures for like 45 minutes
<Strong_Bad> :D

<3

 

[Vigilante]

You do realize I know all that, right? No need to explain it . You cold also even argue that you can tilt your control stick while wavedashing to control it even further. There's a lot you can do to correct yourself.


The only reason consistent wavedashing can sometimes be a bother to me is I play holding the controller backwards and must use the pinkie fingers to air dodge. So I've injured my hands before doing it (Friction and blisters), lol. I'm not sure how this goes for poeple who play normally. The backhand controls are very easy for left-handeds. The action buttons are on the left hand, so that increases reaction speed. The only tradeoff is the shoulder buttons. I can play normally, too, but I prefer this scheme. When playing backhand, what you can do with Luigi is that you can level your controller like a pilot stick. You push the stick instead of bringing it down, so I find getting the appropriate angle easier.

So I find the initial stage harder on the hands, but the control is much easier that way.

And cheers for you getting a USB Gecko. Was it something you wanted?

Edit: If I don't get Golden Sun Dark Dawn, this world will explode. Just saying.

 

[Deleted member]

Actually, it might make a bit of sense to shorten Luigi's WD via traction, so he can shield grab more.

BigLou, the good Luigi Brawl player in GA, says that his friction is one of the things that he dislikes about Luigi.

I'm very curious to what you guys are going to do with Samus and Luigi. Imo, their physics are a part of what makes them unique and what also what cripples them. They seem pretty difficult to change.

 

[Blitzkrieg98]

Oh, this was asked a long time ago and it concerns Star KO's: is it possible to control Star KO's so that faceplants occur at later %'s while the background Star KO's occur at earlier %'s? It's not a big deal to me, but I'm wondering if this is possible. The reason is very situational and you could probably guess for the reason why, but again, just curious.

This. I remember this being asked before. Posting his question again for the sake of it not being lost in a flood of discussion.

 

[Vigilante]

for Luigi, I feel that the question we should ask ourselves is whether changing Luigi's wavedash will change Luigi's core tournament play. I mostly play Falco, Marth and Captain Falcon, so I am not the expert on Luigi. But I see Luigi's wavedash being used a lot.