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Project M Social Thread
- Thread starter Project M
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MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
Yeah. IL has a bigger scene than WI anyways.
ELI-mination
Smash Champion
What are all these non-NY states? These places exist?
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
IL doesn't have ToasterMonk though <3
cannedbread
Smash Lord
why do you people not live in the united states of new york
9Kplus1
Smash Master
because everyone good lives in the maryland republic
Oro?!
Smash Hero
ToasterMonk come down once in a blue moon. I would house all of ya just fyi.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
I'd be as grateful as a southern saying in the middle of a stereotype convention for that, Oro.
My food need is only about a Six Pack and a Pound of potato ole's at Taco Johns for a whole weekend, and I'm very good at taking up a very small amount of space despite being 5'9.5"
I really would love the privilege to play against other players in this game some time.
My food need is only about a Six Pack and a Pound of potato ole's at Taco Johns for a whole weekend, and I'm very good at taking up a very small amount of space despite being 5'9.5"
I really would love the privilege to play against other players in this game some time.
leelue
Smash Lord
The republic of Maryland? Didn't we invade that place, **** the inhabitants and take your money?
Twice?
You're like the new jersey of non new jersey states.
Twice?
You're like the new jersey of non new jersey states.
`dazrin
Smash Champion
So many shots lol
leelue
Smash Lord
Where you at
Where you at
Oh....
Maryland?
geographical wombo combo
Where you at
Oh....
Maryland?
geographical wombo combo
leelue
Smash Lord
\At birth/
leelue
Smash Lord
This appears to be a theme
Archangel
Smash Hero
So I am a day late and all but...I just read the pit spotlight and i am shocked.
I can't believe alot of his changes seem to have come from an extensive review I filed in awhile back. That makes me happy but also slightly nervous. I will feel like I share the pressure of the Pit Devs a little bit now. If it turns out Pit becomes like the new Ike of 2.5 I'll feel like it was at least partially my fault.
As for Charizard, oh nvm....I don't care about him.
I can't believe alot of his changes seem to have come from an extensive review I filed in awhile back. That makes me happy but also slightly nervous. I will feel like I share the pressure of the Pit Devs a little bit now. If it turns out Pit becomes like the new Ike of 2.5 I'll feel like it was at least partially my fault.
As for Charizard, oh nvm....I don't care about him.
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
With a low skill curve and scary moves that convince people that he's better than he is? Nah, his swords aren't 4 feet long and his attacks are quick and weak rather than slow and powerful.
EDIT: \/ Yeah that's what I was saying. Not sure if it came across that way.
Life
Smash Hero
I say Pit's not easy to use solely because his arrows are difficult. Certainly no Foxcario, though.
Archangel
Smash Hero
Slow and Powerful? I remember Ike being Fast and Powerful....or at least too fast for his type of power it seemed. Idk....I don't imagine Pit being easier than Ike anytime soon though.
LOL@Foxcario. Also what about Pit's Arrows are difficult? Maybe I used him too long but I don't see anything really difficult with his arrows.
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
If you're a Pit main, sure the timing is different...
But they're not hard.
I played vs a 2.1 B-Sonic this weekend and it was very lame. I played against it pretty well, but it was the least amount of enjoyment I've ever had in a P:M set.
But they're not hard.
I played vs a 2.1 B-Sonic this weekend and it was very lame. I played against it pretty well, but it was the least amount of enjoyment I've ever had in a P:M set.
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
@Archangel
Ike's grounded movement speed is fast, but his attacks are not. The three that ARE fast are either situational in their hit boxes (bair), countered pretty easily (jab, thru CCing), or have huge risk for little reward (down-b). Nair and U-air are kinda fast too I guess. And Nair is useable, for approach and walling, so I'd give you that. What makes his attacks hard to punish from time to time are the huge reach, not the speed. Which is why you'll often see me preaching an aggressive approach to dealing with Ike, because once he gets his momentum going in keeping you out with spaced aerials, he's hard to get back in on, and scary to boot; and when you CAN get in on him, he'll have a hard time getting you off IFF you can get past the psychological scare of his extreme punishments, which people often forget for how scary they are, ARE slow.
Ike's grounded movement speed is fast, but his attacks are not. The three that ARE fast are either situational in their hit boxes (bair), countered pretty easily (jab, thru CCing), or have huge risk for little reward (down-b). Nair and U-air are kinda fast too I guess. And Nair is useable, for approach and walling, so I'd give you that. What makes his attacks hard to punish from time to time are the huge reach, not the speed. Which is why you'll often see me preaching an aggressive approach to dealing with Ike, because once he gets his momentum going in keeping you out with spaced aerials, he's hard to get back in on, and scary to boot; and when you CAN get in on him, he'll have a hard time getting you off IFF you can get past the psychological scare of his extreme punishments, which people often forget for how scary they are, ARE slow.
Finally got my *** a Wii, christ that took long enough.
I feel fifty different levels of shame, because I haven't played a smash game in so long and I can't even shorthop properly guuuuh.
I feel fifty different levels of shame, because I haven't played a smash game in so long and I can't even shorthop properly guuuuh.
Life
Smash Hero
Arrows can be hard to aim when your opponent isn't in hitstun.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
From my little shpeel on smashmods (Blocked from school computers so I'll link later) about what goes into a good character/good neutral game, Ike does have a few good traits, and his linier speed does go majorly into one.
Those traits are Stage control, mobility, safeness, and the ability to quickly cover narrow spacing. Ike has excelent safeness for the most part, and good stage control (Being effectively able to cover literally the whole length of FD given he has 30 free frames to charge up does that), but his mobility and general space coverage are on the far lower end of the spectrum. Not a bait-worthy Dash dance, or Falcon's sh late DJ FF fair, or quick platform navigation just leads to generally low mobility (In the sense of having non-dedicated close range spacing options). And not much needs to be said about his ability to cover the area around him quickly. His fastest option is significantly more sitiational than Zard's backward nair (regarding a fast move to throw out when dealing with the close-range stage control)
Yeah I have a different view of Ike than most people, but you can't really deny that these are accurate analyses of the character, and I give credit to his storng points where their due. Great effective stage control whenever he's given the chance to breath is a good asset.
Overall Ike has fast linear speed and a relatively fast bair (Still slow like Ganon/Falcon's, but relative to the rest of his moves it's fast), but bad mobility and bad coverage around him are definitely problems, no matter how extreme his stengths and weaknesses are made.
Not saying he's being made more extremified, I don't know what specific changes are being made to an overhauled Ike, just talk of making side B more dedicated but not making it take any longer to cover that huge distance, which I personally feel is opposite of the desirable route to take when examining the character in terms of his relation to other characters and when looking to make his deisgn more cohesive, less polarising (I realllly need a synonym for this), and overall more appealing for a meleeesq enviornment.
Sorry for no spell check; school computers blow hard chunks.
Ikysaur
Those traits are Stage control, mobility, safeness, and the ability to quickly cover narrow spacing. Ike has excelent safeness for the most part, and good stage control (Being effectively able to cover literally the whole length of FD given he has 30 free frames to charge up does that), but his mobility and general space coverage are on the far lower end of the spectrum. Not a bait-worthy Dash dance, or Falcon's sh late DJ FF fair, or quick platform navigation just leads to generally low mobility (In the sense of having non-dedicated close range spacing options). And not much needs to be said about his ability to cover the area around him quickly. His fastest option is significantly more sitiational than Zard's backward nair (regarding a fast move to throw out when dealing with the close-range stage control)
Yeah I have a different view of Ike than most people, but you can't really deny that these are accurate analyses of the character, and I give credit to his storng points where their due. Great effective stage control whenever he's given the chance to breath is a good asset.
Overall Ike has fast linear speed and a relatively fast bair (Still slow like Ganon/Falcon's, but relative to the rest of his moves it's fast), but bad mobility and bad coverage around him are definitely problems, no matter how extreme his stengths and weaknesses are made.
Not saying he's being made more extremified, I don't know what specific changes are being made to an overhauled Ike, just talk of making side B more dedicated but not making it take any longer to cover that huge distance, which I personally feel is opposite of the desirable route to take when examining the character in terms of his relation to other characters and when looking to make his deisgn more cohesive, less polarising (I realllly need a synonym for this), and overall more appealing for a meleeesq enviornment.
Sorry for no spell check; school computers blow hard chunks.
Ikysaur
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
Just for you Kink, I am going to look up synonyms for polarising.
EDIT: So, I searched for like a solid 4 minutes and the best I could come up with is "dehomogenizing," and that doesn't seem to serve as well as a gerund as it does an action verb.
EDIT2: oh wait I'm just using the wrong prefix. De- implies the action of changing the root to the opposite of itself. That's why it seems like an action verb, because it implies an action. The word I was looking for is either nonhomogenizing (might be made up, or hyphenated) or antihomogenizing (same here).
EDIT: So, I searched for like a solid 4 minutes and the best I could come up with is "dehomogenizing," and that doesn't seem to serve as well as a gerund as it does an action verb.
EDIT2: oh wait I'm just using the wrong prefix. De- implies the action of changing the root to the opposite of itself. That's why it seems like an action verb, because it implies an action. The word I was looking for is either nonhomogenizing (might be made up, or hyphenated) or antihomogenizing (same here).
ELI-mination
Smash Champion
When's Kratos gonna be revealed?
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
Right after Waluigi
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
New topic:
Things P:M has spoiled us on in melee
I always think ledgejumping is safe for some reason now. Couldn't be that you can't act of it in melee but can in P:M
Turnaround waveshining makes me miss the timing in melee.
I always think my jumpstart will stop at an edge instead of sliding off. This kills the Falco
****ING RARS
Things P:M has spoiled us on in melee
I always think ledgejumping is safe for some reason now. Couldn't be that you can't act of it in melee but can in P:M
Turnaround waveshining makes me miss the timing in melee.
I always think my jumpstart will stop at an edge instead of sliding off. This kills the Falco
****ING RARS
My opinion on Ike:
- Very few tools to deal with close range pressure.
+ Dude has great tools for spacing (jump back fair all day. <3). Long range, disjointed, neutral game resetting pokes; devastating punishers against miscalculated approaches. Whats not to love here?
+ Heavy with an excellent recovery, so he has a level of forgiveness if someone gets in on him.
Seems about right for a solid turtle character, imo.
- Very few tools to deal with close range pressure.
+ Dude has great tools for spacing (jump back fair all day. <3). Long range, disjointed, neutral game resetting pokes; devastating punishers against miscalculated approaches. Whats not to love here?
+ Heavy with an excellent recovery, so he has a level of forgiveness if someone gets in on him.
Seems about right for a solid turtle character, imo.
Stunts
Smash Journeyman
Great updates yesterday guys! I can't wait to play the new Zard 
But one thing's for sure, I hope Rob's core mechanics isn't changed, cause Rob's fun as ****
But one thing's for sure, I hope Rob's core mechanics isn't changed, cause Rob's fun as ****
Comeback Kid
Smash Champion
All the upcoming announcements will probably be about characters, old and new.
My guess is Ness and Lucario get their own double spotlight as significantly changed characters.
My guess is Ness and Lucario get their own double spotlight as significantly changed characters.
9Kplus1
Smash Master
I wouldn't label either character as "significantly changed". The core of Lucario's 2.1 metagame -- ASC -- still plays a huge part in his combo game; saying that Lucario is drastically different from his 2.1 iteration is sort of like saying that PAL Falco is eons different from NTSC Falco. As for Ness, I don't think that he's seen enough stream love to make that kind of assumption. Now Sonic is a character with quite a few already revealed changes, and he's had more than enough screen time to clearly make out how those changes will impact his 2.5 metagame. IMO, he would be a better candidate for a "significantly changed" character(s) spotlight.
Also, Stunts, ROB is in good hands and feels all kinds of solid.
Also, Stunts, ROB is in good hands and feels all kinds of solid.
Just as a minor note, these character spotlights are definitely the most appreciated type of updates as it gives some insight directly from the devs.
One thing I really enjoyed about the development of Skullgirls was that the guy behind the core fighting engine and character balance was very open about everything he had been working on. He would be on forums daily answering questions and looking over comments.
I can understand the devs not wanting as much contribution from the common people after the events of brawl+, (I was there from the very beginning of b+, I know how all that turned out) but there could be some legitimate information you could be looking over. Obviously as I am not involved in the development, I don't know how you guys operate with your playtesters, but I can't help but feel that you guys aren't getting as much out of the playtesting as possible. I usually hear about a single person being in charged of a character, and that sounds rather alarming actually. More often then not, when a dev is asked about a character change on a stream, the response is shockingly almost always "I don't know about this character."
I think its a little more important to look over general comments then you might think. I'll use Skullgirls again as another example. A dev was showing off a recent change to a character during a livestream that was supposed to be a buff. A random noname person watching the stream pointed how that changed ultimately effected the character in other areas in a negative way. Turns out he was entirely correct on his assumptions.
I'm not saying you should listen to everything everyone says and follow up on it, because that has obvious repercussions. The devs should be sensible enough to know when someone is suggesting something ridiculous or something that sounds very inexperienced. Realistically, the best way to get something to turn out perfect is to have as many opinions as possible. Let's be honest, your playtesters probably won't know everything there is to know about certain characters that some of the general public has experimented with. You have done stuff like this with those surveys where we leave feedback, but I feel like sometimes comments are just looked over without much of a second thought. I generally agree with testing stuff myself first hand before commenting and theorycrafting on it, but sometimes those comments and theorycraft can be valid.
Like I said, I have no idea how you guys actually go about doing things so I might be totally off on how you operate, but that's just what things look like from an outside perspective. I know you guys obviously have no obligations when it comes to working on this project, but you obviously prefer some sense of professionalism. Sometimes its a mixed bag when it comes to that.
I definitely appreciate all the hard work you guys have put into this project.
One thing I really enjoyed about the development of Skullgirls was that the guy behind the core fighting engine and character balance was very open about everything he had been working on. He would be on forums daily answering questions and looking over comments.
I can understand the devs not wanting as much contribution from the common people after the events of brawl+, (I was there from the very beginning of b+, I know how all that turned out) but there could be some legitimate information you could be looking over. Obviously as I am not involved in the development, I don't know how you guys operate with your playtesters, but I can't help but feel that you guys aren't getting as much out of the playtesting as possible. I usually hear about a single person being in charged of a character, and that sounds rather alarming actually. More often then not, when a dev is asked about a character change on a stream, the response is shockingly almost always "I don't know about this character."
I think its a little more important to look over general comments then you might think. I'll use Skullgirls again as another example. A dev was showing off a recent change to a character during a livestream that was supposed to be a buff. A random noname person watching the stream pointed how that changed ultimately effected the character in other areas in a negative way. Turns out he was entirely correct on his assumptions.
I'm not saying you should listen to everything everyone says and follow up on it, because that has obvious repercussions. The devs should be sensible enough to know when someone is suggesting something ridiculous or something that sounds very inexperienced. Realistically, the best way to get something to turn out perfect is to have as many opinions as possible. Let's be honest, your playtesters probably won't know everything there is to know about certain characters that some of the general public has experimented with. You have done stuff like this with those surveys where we leave feedback, but I feel like sometimes comments are just looked over without much of a second thought. I generally agree with testing stuff myself first hand before commenting and theorycrafting on it, but sometimes those comments and theorycraft can be valid.
Like I said, I have no idea how you guys actually go about doing things so I might be totally off on how you operate, but that's just what things look like from an outside perspective. I know you guys obviously have no obligations when it comes to working on this project, but you obviously prefer some sense of professionalism. Sometimes its a mixed bag when it comes to that.
I definitely appreciate all the hard work you guys have put into this project.
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
10/10 post iLink
9Kplus1
Smash Master
6/10 imo
Skullgirls -- all traditional fighters are horrible and heavily drag down the quality of a post when mentioned.
nice post tho, iLink
Skullgirls -- all traditional fighters are horrible and heavily drag down the quality of a post when mentioned.
nice post tho, iLink
Stevo
Smash Champion
Though I somewhat agree, the PMBR barely has time to get 2.5 done, let alone look through everyone's posts to pick out the 1% that might actually be useful.
That is why they have playtesters.
The goal is to balance the game at top level play, and frankly, most of the people playing this are not at that level (often some of the most vocal too). The playtesters in general are at a much higher level of play, or play with players of a high caliber often.
In an ideal world the PMBR would be able to read and respond to everyone, but is just not possible and I don't blame them. Sure, they might miss a gem here or there, but that is just how it goes.
I have my own disagreements with some decisions made, but I understand why they would probably not listen to me.
EDIT: Also, I believe the demos are more for public tournament results and to generate hype, not so much as an open beta.
That is why they have playtesters.
The goal is to balance the game at top level play, and frankly, most of the people playing this are not at that level (often some of the most vocal too). The playtesters in general are at a much higher level of play, or play with players of a high caliber often.
In an ideal world the PMBR would be able to read and respond to everyone, but is just not possible and I don't blame them. Sure, they might miss a gem here or there, but that is just how it goes.
I have my own disagreements with some decisions made, but I understand why they would probably not listen to me.
EDIT: Also, I believe the demos are more for public tournament results and to generate hype, not so much as an open beta.
UltiMario
Out of Obscurity
Stop making me ashamed to know you
- Status