Project M Social Thread

[Xebenkeck]

That is awesome. I sure lots of people(myself included) were not even aware of this mechanic. This explains alot of those "different feeling" things. Well done PMBR.

 

[Jonny Westside]

2.5 Engine Improvement: Knockback Stacking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8qQ1jzw3ZE&feature=g-u-u

 

[cannedbread]

i just got my internet back from sandy and i get this. i love y'all

 

[Stunts]

Okay guys, we're super sorry for the delay but here's the announcement we had planned to put out this past week: Knockback stacking!

Be sure to read the whole post AND watch the video!

Also, it should be noted our wizard Magus is A okay!

More like "Falco? You wouldn't 'Dair'"
But srsly, this is great news. Sometimes the lack of kb stacking would cause me to stop playing P:M due to frustration.

Spoiler

I Played Falco... and main Ganon

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Huh, that explains a lot of odd things I felt while playing. Especially with Falco and Ganon. o.o

Excellent work, guys. Major improvement. :3

Hm...I wonder how this will affect Sonic and Lucario, though.

 

[GaretHax]

Wait so this should mean that Fox's shine comboes will better match melee as well? So good haha! Awesome work pmbr so hyped for 2.5!!!

 

[bubbaking]

It's also as unprofessional looking as you can get.

Even sakurai wasn't that bad, and he missed the Sheik/Ivysaur Grab glitch.

What's the "Sheik/Ivysaur Grab glitch"? :-O

doesnt the same thing happen with MK/Kirby Uthrow?

Pretty sure they get stuck the the edge of the platform and don't pass into the air, but I could be wrong.

I believe MK and Kirby's throws are on a form of timer that causes them to travel for a certain amount of time before the ending of the animation occurs. However, I think this timer can be somewhat circumvented by placing an un-passable ceiling above them, causing them to end up lower than they started if there isn't a solid immobile floor underneath them. Perhaps Zard's uthrow follows the same mechanic?

Giving Diddy a bad recovery to offset a stupidly good on-stage game isn't balanced at all. See also: Marth, Olimar.

Actually, it is balanced. It's very balanced. It just simply isn't fair because chars like the spacees exist who happen to get everything.

Not sure how this follows. Fox, Falco, Peach, and Sheik are the best designed characters in the game and many Lucases I mean characters were specifically designed around having parallels in opportunity to those offered to these characters. It only follows that people would want characters to be you know

Good.

It's not often that this occurs, but I find myself agreeing with Kink on this one...

 

[jalued]

Wait so this should mean that Fox's shine comboes will better match melee as well? So good haha! Awesome work pmbr so hyped for 2.5!!!

There are still alot of problems concerning shield knockback so sheild pressure won't feel the same but it's definitely going to be closer

 

[Sixth-Sense]

Is the knockback thing one of the main reasons PM doesn't feel completely meleeish? I didn't even know this was in melee, but still, i thought the whole i can't feel it thing (especially with falco/fox/falcon) was because of the 1 dead frame thing?

 

[Revven]

For some Melee purists this would probably be the thing that would make them make the statement: "P:M doesn't feel as fluid in its combos". The 1 frame momentum stuff would most certainly still detract from some fluidity but this was a pretty decent cause to that as well.

Like I've said elsewhere before, while some of the cast has seen barely any changes going into 2.5, the engine improvements in 2.5 will benefit them a lot already.

 

[bubbaking]

It's a combination of things, including the 1 frame delay for momentum changes and the increased shield knockback.

 

[Sixth-Sense]

Thanks guys, just didn't want to be in the blue with this

Right on topic, the way the game's progressing is amazing (balance wise) but i have an itchy feeling Marth is gonna need something to help him step it up, what do you guys think? Because it seems to me like he's not gonna be top-tier for long, plus a good portion of top-tiers got buffs that actually make a difference (peach-new up tilt that isn't bad, plus something else i can't rem. C. Falcon- good forward-b in air, good down-b, actually hits hard, even shiek got buffs, the best being she now has an amazing down-b) or better yet, it's makes a difference in the way they are used, which seems to be a big problem with marth because his metagame is incredibly slow while other's simply keep progessing, and the fact that marth mains seem to all follow ken/m2k style of play. just my current thoughts, but i don't really know what exactly could change with him.

 

[Hylian]

I can't beat DK ughhhhhhh

 

[leafbarrett]

Thanks guys, just didn't want to be in the blue with this

Right on topic, the way the game's progressing is amazing (balance wise) but i have an itchy feeling Marth is gonna need something to help him step it up, what do you guys think? Because it seems to me like he's not gonna be top-tier for long, plus a good portion of top-tiers got buffs that actually make a difference (peach-new up tilt that isn't bad, plus something else i can't rem. C. Falcon- good forward-b in air, good down-b, actually hits hard, even shiek got buffs, the best being she now has an amazing down-b) or better yet, it's makes a difference in the way they are used, which seems to be a big problem with marth because his metagame is incredibly slow while other's simply keep progessing, and the fact that marth mains seem to all follow ken/m2k style of play. just my current thoughts, but i don't really know what exactly could change with him.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a goal of this whole project to make everyone roughly equally good (as in top tier)? Or was that just a Brawl+ goal?

 

[Comeback Kid]

Marth was already buffed with some animation and hitbox changes in 2.5 from what I've seen.

As to why he hasn't been changed in a big way, it's probably because Marth has a fun and solid playstyle that many people like to use.

Any changes that effect Marth's style need to be carefully considered, which is how the PMBR seems to be handling him in 2.5.

 

[bubbaking]

Right on topic, the way the game's progressing is amazing (balance wise) but i have an itchy feeling Marth is gonna need something to help him step it up, what do you guys think? Because it seems to me like he's not gonna be top-tier for long, plus a good portion of top-tiers got buffs that actually make a difference (peach-new up tilt that isn't bad, plus something else i can't rem. C. Falcon- good forward-b in air, good down-b, actually hits hard, even shiek got buffs, the best being she now has an amazing down-b) or better yet, it's makes a difference in the way they are used, which seems to be a big problem with marth because his metagame is incredibly slow while other's simply keep progessing, and the fact that marth mains seem to all follow ken/m2k style of play. just my current thoughts, but i don't really know what exactly could change with him.

A lot of people actually share your opinions (including me). I actually don't think Marth is Top Tier now. I mean, he was arguably borderline Top in Melee, but I don't think he's even close this time around. As you said, other previously good chars got buffs, and the spacees and jiggs kept their perfect goodness. Marth hardly received anything (pivot grabs is a godly buff, though), so he's falling behind the top competition and is also getting hit harder by everyone below him. For one, Ike has surpassed him as the best edgeguarder, IMO. My opinion is that Marth's sideB should be made to chain a little better now.

 

[NeoZ]

Marth was already buffed with some animation and hitbox changes in 2.5 from what I've seen.

As to why he hasn't been changed in a big way, it's probably because Marth has a fun and solid playstyle that many people like to use.

Any changes that effect Marth's style need to be carefully considered, which is how the PMBR seems to be handling him in 2.5.

AFAIK, 2.5 Marth is Melee Marth, why do you think he's buffed?

 

[bubbaking]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a goal of this whole project to make everyone roughly equally good (as in top tier)? Or was that just a Brawl+ goal?

That is indeed the final goal for P:M. However, a lot of people (including me) have been taking issue with the PMBR's methods for reaching this goal. I take it you are also seeing a problem here?

 

[Comeback Kid]

AFAIK, 2.5 Marth is Melee Marth, why do you think he's buffed?

Buffed up to his Melee self, but more importantly his up smash has a better hitbox than Melee that includes the sword's tip. So that is a real buff.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Also, I'm curious, which characters do you think have worse recoveries than Sheik? I wouldn't say that Marth and Ice Climbers (not counting SPopo) are two of them, personally.

I'd say personally, Marth, Ice Climbers as a whole, Mario, Luigi, Doc, Kirby, Yoshi, Ness, Zelda, Game and Watch, DK, Bowser, and Roy have worse recoveries all things considered (Recovering at various percents, affordability of getting hit when recovering high, variability, priority, sweet spotting, and predictability,for the most part, ). Game and Watch is iffy because it depends on the stage a little (Like a lot of aspects of the game), but his big sweetspot is offset by crap priority and bad high recovery.

Points could be made either way for Marth, Ice Climbers, Ganon, and Falcon.

 

[leafbarrett]

That is indeed the final goal for P:M. However, a lot of people (including me) have been taking issue with the PMBR's methods for reaching this goal. I take it you are also seeing a problem here?

I'm not seeing a problem in the gameplay itself - I'm not experienced enough with the nuances of competitive play - but I am seeing a problem in the discussions. I see a lot of people discussing top tier and if a character is in it or not (Marth right now), and that feels... off. There shouldn't need to be any discussions like that. To be fair, though, this is still in beta.


Quick question. If a character's traction is so high that they practically stick to the ground when not walking/running/etc., do they really have a wavedash?


Oh, and a bug (I think). If G&W is hit during his parachute attack (nair, I think? uair?), the parachute stays until he's out of hitstun.

 

[Rikana]

We are aware of that bug. Thanks though.

 

[leafbarrett]

We are aware of that bug. Thanks though.

Oh. My bad. ^^;

 

[Comeback Kid]

We are aware of that bug. Thanks though.

Here's how to solve that bug:

Come on, you know you want that fish bowl back as much as we do.

Fits right in with his scuba gear and turtle friend.

 

[Sixth-Sense]

A lot of people actually share your opinions (including me). I actually don't think Marth is Top Tier now. I mean, he was arguably borderline Top in Melee, but I don't think he's even close this time around. As you said, other previously good chars got buffs, and the spacees and jiggs kept their perfect goodness. Marth hardly received anything (pivot grabs is a godly buff, though), so he's falling behind the top competition and is also getting hit harder by everyone below him. For one, Ike has surpassed him as the best edgeguarder, IMO. My opinion is that Marth's sideB should be made to chain a little better now.

Good to know i'm not just overthinking things , but yeah it really seems like he's gonna fall behind as everyone else just keeps getting better, and this is simply troubling to me because Marth is....well he's marth, he's the character that practically ruled competitive melee for about 6-7 years, i think he should just have a better side-b and maybe a usefull upsmash.

Oh and i really don't see his animations/dashes w/e as buffs simply because that was his dash in melee, if it get's ported over, it's not much of a buff but more of a tweak, unless they do something drastic to his animation that could have frame advantages or just better options in general movement wise that he didn't have in melee, then i would consider it a buff, but other than that, those changes are there because they have to be there, to really have that Melee Marth "feel".

Other than that, I actually think the PMBR are doing an amazing job , and it really does seem like they take everything with massive grains of salt, they are probably holding off certain tweaks they have in mind for some veteran characters AFTER they get all the characters out, they get the engine running exactly like melee, etc. but all in all i have faith in them, this is just something that is really bugging me.

 

[hotdogturtle]

I had 2 things to post but I forgot both of them after reading and watching the update.

That looks great for Ganondorf's dsmash, and also the jab saving.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Marth was going to fall behind whether characters were made as good as Fox or not considering his best strength was just that he wasn't as bad as say, Falcon or Mario. He did get some stuff like faster dair landing lag for dair->F-smash or double dip dair combos where he couldn't get any before though, as well as some other very small stuff. Nothing like Peach getting most "U" moves being buffed in some way in addition to buffed specials and more reliable moves/links though. He might have something closer to Brawl's side B as well but it seems pretty much like Melee's for all I can tell.

 

[UltiMario]

Marth's got a little bit of stuff. IIRC his Upsmash is a tiny bit better, he's got them pivot grabs, his recovery is much harder to edgehog, and his throws are a mix-up on DI now (they require different DI instead of you just being able to hold down most the time and be fine). It's not much, but to be fair Marth is damn good in Melee.

I can't remember if Side-B actually chains better or not, but it feels like it. Counter being a bit better wouldn't hurt either.

 

[bubbaking]

The infamous.
Wall.
of.
Text.

The only top character in Melee without a safe recovery is Marth; Just so happens, Marth is also one of the only top tiers whose position is seen as suspect at the moment. Correlation, not causation mind you, but something worth noting for sure.

Marth is not a Top Tier character. Sure, he's a spacee killer, but he's borderline bad compared to Top Tier. Why do people keep saying that Marth and Peach are Top Tier Melee chars? His position is not "suspect," or if it is, it's about whether he should fall even lower. His position is simply High Tier, and no one thinks he's going to rise. He just checks the spacees.....and solidly beats Peach.

When done high, she'll have low landing lag. Pikachu/Pichu's is the same I think? Like you have to be falling enough to go into actual special fall, not just the animation at the end of Up-B.

This isn't really comparable to Pichu's recovery lag. Pichu normally only gets somewhere from 2-4 frames of landing lag for landing regularly with upB. I believe the softer of his two 'hard landings' is around 10 frames, but that's it.

Sheik is a perfect example of why a top tier character does not need a good recovery. She's an absolutely wonderful character who has many strengths and a fantastic neutral game. That said, her recovery is absolutely atrocious. She's the only top tier character that gets consistently edgeguard looped, and yet she manages to maintain a very good match-up spread and good tournament results.

I wouldn't say that Sheik's recovery is "atrocious". It's short-ranged and it has predictable options, in most cases, but Sheik's options are generally strong enough that sometimes you simply can't stop them. On top of that, her upB is one of those recovery attacks where, if you get it by it, you might just lose a stock if Sheik capitalizes on it fast enough. I don't think there's a single Top Tier char in any variation of Smash that truly has a bad recovery.

She has options, but doesn't really have any mix-ups, nearly every character has the same flowchart to edgeguard Sheik.

[COLLAPSE="Edgeguarding Sheik"]1. Wait outside Sheik's fair/dj needle range when she's floating to the edge (if she isn't recovering from high then skip to 3).
2a. If she djs, needles or fairs, react and bair her.
2b. If she just drops low, grab the edge.
3. Maintain frame invincibility on the edge when Sheik is in range to double jump and swat you.
4. Wait for Sheik to poof.
5. Press left/right when Sheik poofs.
6a. If Sheik goes for the edge, she dies.
6b. If Sheik poofs onto the edge (or air dodges), choose optimal bnb combo to reset her position off-stage (falcon: stomp -> knee, falco: shine -> punish, fox: waveshine across the stage -> punish, pal marth: dair -> tip etc.)
6c. If Sheik poofs onto a platform, take the same steps as you would in 4b.
6d. If Sheik up+bs vertically up then wd onto the edge.
6e. If Sheik spaces an up+b to land directly onto the edge, wait.

You can also just bair her out of her up+b start-up (since it takes too long for the invincibility frames) if she does it too close to the edge, this is a BIG weakness about her recovery which not enough people exploit.

Examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k2YlATUvXg (1:05, 1:22, 1:53, 2:05)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m1a_qYvWdc (1:35, 7:50)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpzCmzCM84c (3:10, 4:10)

This is a little different when she still has a double jump and an air dodge at low percents (since she has the mix-ups to both dj -> sweetspot and dj -> air dodge), but those are universal options, not Sheik specific.

Sheik also has the option to drop down and wall jump -> air dodge/bair/reverse needle on certain stages, which I guess is the closest thing she has to a mix-up, but from experience someone who understands this option will just hit you on reaction with frames when you drop below the up+b sweetspot range.[/COLLAPSE]

Also, I'm curious, which characters do you think have worse recoveries than Sheik? I wouldn't say that Marth and Ice Climbers (not counting SPopo) are two of them, personally.

You're not really wrong, but edgeguarding Sheik is not as easy as you make it sound. For one, there are instances where Sheik's options are simply too strong for her opponent to overcome them. For instance, if she has a full set of needles and her DJ, with a good high position (she should always DI high anwyay), she can cover the ledge long enough to easily force her way onto the ledge and possibly even onstage, depending on how close she was. It's also really hard to just contest with her DJ fair. It's not as simple as just reacting to it. Also, you forgot to mention that Sheik can DJ > RNC > bair as a recovery option. Finally, there are times when invincibility simply won't hold you over. That upB explosion can be obnoxious and can force early decisions from the edgeguarder during times of vulnerability, unless he's a spacee and can refresh invincibility extremely fast.

As for characters with recoveries worse than Sheik, well, I'd list Roy, Bowser, Falcon, Doc, and maybe Luigi. Roy's and Falcon's simply lose out on distance and options. Bowser and Doc lose out on options, especially Doc. He recovers practically the same way every time.

 

[Kink-Link5]

It's not much, but to be fair Marth is damn good in Melee.

I whole heatedly disagree. Marth is the worst "good" character in the game by quite a margin. Worse than Ice Climbers? Possibly. He got buffs to dair that help a little and buffs to U-smash "maybe" that don't really synergise with any part of his openness on whiff and trouble working with a high% opponent. He was barely good in Melee, and he doesn't have a good look in PM.
Especially when like Peach got hella buffs when she's already a great top tier threat.

With due respect of course.

 

[Tlock]

IMO a good buff for Marth would be to make his counter deal 1.5% of the damage it counters (like Roy's in melee) and possibly increase the knock-back of the move based on the knock-back of the the attack that is reflected.

 

[bubbaking]

Buffed up to his Melee self, but more importantly his up smash has a better hitbox than Melee that includes the sword's tip. So that is a real buff.

Ummm, could you please clarify what you mean by this? Melee Marth's usmash actually had a tipper, it was just hard to hit with. Did they make it easier to sweetspot Marth's usmash?

[COLLAPSE="Recoveries worse than Sheik"]I'd say personally, Marth, Ice Climbers as a whole, Mario, Luigi, Doc, Kirby, Yoshi, Ness, Zelda, Game and Watch, DK, Bowser, and Roy have worse recoveries all things considered (Recovering at various percents, affordability of getting hit when recovering high, variability, priority, sweet spotting, and predictability,for the most part, ). Game and Watch is iffy because it depends on the stage a little (Like a lot of aspects of the game), but his big sweetspot is offset by crap priority and bad high recovery.

Points could be made either way for Marth, Ice Climbers, Ganon, and Falcon.[/COLLAPSE]

How is G&W "iffy" but Kirby's recovery is definitely worse than Sheik's? Falcon's recovery sucks. He gets one mix-up, and then he dies, unless he knows how to tech. Yoshi's recovery definitely isn't weaker than Sheik's, not with that distance and DJ armor.

I'm not seeing a problem in the gameplay itself - I'm not experienced enough with the nuances of competitive play - but I am seeing a problem in the discussions. I see a lot of people discussing top tier and if a character is in it or not (Marth right now), and that feels... off. There shouldn't need to be any discussions like that. To be fair, though, this is still in beta.

Ideally, you're right. Unfortunately, I doubt any competitive game can really have true balance, but if this game somehow does attain it, then you can expect these discussions to be a lot different, like over whether tiers exist or not. Not now, though...

Quick question. If a character's traction is so high that they practically stick to the ground when not walking/running/etc., do they really have a wavedash?

All characters have a wavedash, despite their traction. Even without distance (which is given by lack of traction), every character's WD is useful for doing something quickly out of a run, like switching directions without skidding.

[COLLAPSE="G&W's vBrawl nair"]Here's how to solve that bug:

Come on, you know you want that fish bowl back as much as we do.

Fits right in with his scuba gear and turtle friend.[/COLLAPSE]

I still think the best solution was the Minus solution. Tap A gives vBrawl nair and Hold A gives Melee nair. The vBrawl nair seems much better and safer for starting and extending combos. It would probably also be a great TC tool.

[COLLAPSE="Marth"]Marth was going to fall behind whether characters were made as good as Fox or not considering his best strength was just that he wasn't as bad as say, Falcon or Mario. He did get some stuff like faster dair landing lag for dair->F-smash or double dip dair combos where he couldn't get any before though, as well as some other very small stuff. Nothing like Peach getting most "U" moves being buffed in some way in addition to buffed specials and more reliable moves/links though. He might have something closer to Brawl's side B as well but it seems pretty much like Melee's for all I can tell.[/COLLAPSE]

If Marth was given the right applicable buffs, he didn't necessarily have to fall. Marth's dair isn't ported over straight from Melee? Didn't Marth already have the dair stuff in Melee? Dair > fsmash and dair > dair were both very doable combos in Melee. I don't know about everyone else, but I've been getting Marth's sideB hits to connect way better than they could in Melee.

[COLLAPSE="More Marth"]I whole heatedly disagree. Marth is the worst "good" character in the game by quite a margin. Worse than Ice Climbers? Possibly. He got buffs to dair that help a little and buffs to U-smash "maybe" that don't really synergise with any part of his openness on whiff and trouble working with a high% opponent. He was barely good in Melee, and he doesn't have a good look in PM.
Especially when like Peach got hella buffs when she's already a great top tier threat.

With due respect of course.[/COLLAPSE]

Wow, you really hate Marth. The "worst 'good' character in the game" is the ICs, maybe Falcon. Falcon gets ***** by shines and crouching Sheiks. ICs are just weird, are not consistent, and randomly get destroyed by Peach and Samus. Marth is a great character who falls just short of extremely good. Why do people keep saying that Marth was "barely good in Melee" and Peach was "already a top tier threat"? Their MUs just simply don't support that kind of logic. Marth goes even with both spacees and he very solidly beats Peach. Peach loses to EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER in the Top and High tiers. Things may have changed in P:M, but you can't base your P:M logic on such faulty Melee logic.

Openness on whiff shouldn't be such a big deal. That's why you abuse his mobility, range, and grab game. He does admittedly have trouble finishing off a high % opponent, but if his usmash did indeed get buffed, then it would help with that problem.

 

[Jolteon]

I'd say personally, Marth, Ice Climbers as a whole, Mario, Luigi, Doc, Kirby, Yoshi, Ness, Zelda, Game and Watch, DK, Bowser, and Roy have worse recoveries all things considered (Recovering at various percents, affordability of getting hit when recovering high, variability, priority, sweet spotting, and predictability,for the most part, ). Game and Watch is iffy because it depends on the stage a little (Like a lot of aspects of the game), but his big sweetspot is offset by crap priority and bad high recovery.

Points could be made either way for Marth, Ice Climbers, Ganon, and Falcon.

I agree with: Luigi, Kirby, Yoshi, Ness, Zelda, Falcon, Ganon, DK, Bowser and Roy. Not really sure about the others, particularly dual Ice Climbers.

I dunno, it's just interesting for me that some people still class Sheik's recovery as good or decent (outside of teams), it's exactly the same way I feel when people still say that Falco has a bad recovery. :|

On top of that, her upB is one of those recovery attacks where, if you get it by it, you might just lose a stock if Sheik capitalizes on it fast enough.

True, she also has a great ledgedash for when she grabs the ledge. I don't think she has any problems working with the ledge when she has it, but I think she really struggles with getting control of the ledge.

For one, there are instances where Sheik's options are simply too strong for her opponent to overcome them. For instance, if she has a full set of needles and her DJ, with a good high position (she should always DI high anwyay), she can cover the ledge long enough to easily force her way onto the ledge and possibly even onstage, depending on how close she was.

Sheik's dj Needles are easy to react to and punish, if you stay below her at an acute angle she has way too much lag from needle storm, you can even ledgestall for frames if the Sheik is trying to Needle you from the sweetspot range.

It's also really hard to just contest with her DJ fair. It's not as simple as just reacting to it.

Why? Double jumps are slow, telegraphed and put you into a terrible position. You have all the time in the world to hit her after she jumps, she's not like Puff where she can throw out an aerial and use her mobility to stay safe.

Also, you forgot to mention that Sheik can DJ > RNC > bair as a recovery option.

What will this do against ledge invincibility? That's like saying that you have the option to both up+b on stage and up+b on the edge vs the Marth killer. Like... technically you do, but both options will result in the same thing.

Finally, there are times when invincibility simply won't hold you over.

You can grab the edge even after Sheik commits to up+b, that's a lot of leniency to do something as simple as grabbing the edge. If someone can't work with that then they're doing it wrong.

 

[DMG]

Some of Peach's buffs were unintentional. Lot of the janky turnip stuff def is.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Sheiks recovery is garbage, and imo yoshi's is better

 

[leelue]

Just realized that momentum stacking will affect sonic spindash stuff, for better or worse.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Better start complaining about it now, Leelue, need to get a headstart ya'know
Because surely they did this just because melee

 

[Mattnumbers]

So today I hosted a Project: M tournament at Washington's monthly Gameclucks tournament, here are the results:

Project M 1v1
$3 entry fee
21 entrants

1. Silentwolf
2. Gimpyfish
3. Bladewise
4. Gage
5. Eggz (forfeit to Gage)
5. Toph
7. Jeff
7. The Epitome of Loss
9. Mattnumbers
9. Rori
9. :random: Lolikanon
9. :random: Kage Ryu
13. Sharon
13. Shadic
13. Badcupboard
13. Maurice
17. Ka-Master
17. :random: Kero
17. Broshi
17. :random: Shoopthewhoop
DQ: Evan E

Shadic or anyone else that was there if you can fill in the blanks I have for who used what character(s) please let me know.

 

[DrinkingFood]

So today I hosted a Project: M tournament at Washington's monthly Gameclucks tournament, here are the results:

Project M 1v1
$3 entry fee
21 entrants

*RESULTS*

No IKE for the first 9 places
Ike sucks PMBR
buff pl0x

 

[Mattnumbers]

I could have sworn I heard everyone in the entire tournament complain about Ike at least once lol