Project M Mewtwo: A Balancing Project

[Nguz95]

I did! All the time. I used him in tournament too, and I always got crushed. I think my singles tournament record is 0-14 or something like that. And I lost all of those sets 0-2 as well. But man is he fun to use.

Mr. Mewtwo main! Please try out my project. I would love to have feedback from somebody who has tournament experience with him. Feel free to rip it if you want.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Mr. Mewtwo main! Please try out my project. I would love to have feedback from somebody who has tournament experience with him. Feel free to rip it if you want.

What you need, my friend, is a strong, notable Mewtwo main who wrecks at tournaments.

Translation: Where the hell is Taj when ya need him? ¦D

 

[ItalianStallion]

Mr. Mewtwo main! Please try out my project. I would love to have feedback from somebody who has tournament experience with him. Feel free to rip it if you want.

I would, but I don't know how to hack my Wii, and I am hesitant to try since I will probably mess up. :/

What you need, my friend, is a strong, notable Mewtwo main who wrecks at tournaments.

 

[Nguz95]

I would, but I don't know how to hack my Wii, and I am hesitant to try since I will probably mess up. :/

You aren't doing any hacking. All you need is a 2gb sd card with project m on it. Project M involves no hacking whatsoever. I run the hackless downoad and it works great. All it does is run Project M as an extension of Brawl for as long as you have the Wii on. I have instructions on how to put him in in the OP. all you need to do is replace a few files in the card and then you are done.
If you need any help I will definitely help you out.

 

[Nguz95]

What you need, my friend, is a strong, notable Mewtwo main who wrecks at tournaments.

Translation: Where the hell is Taj when ya need him? ¦D

That would be sweet. I think i would be a little embarrassed though. My Mewtwo is probably so different than the Melee one. The challenge would be translating all the right frame data to the character so he feels perfect. Difficult, but not impossible.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

...That wasn't a jab at you or anything. Don't misunderstand. o_o

It's from the fact that Mewtwo himself isn't exactly the most tourney savvy character.

I'm only mentioning Taj's Mewtwo because it's the one exception everyone knows. Hell, for awhile, he had his own place on the Melee Tier List.

 

[ItalianStallion]

You aren't doing any hacking. All you need is a 2gb sd card with project m on it. Project M involves no hacking whatsoever. I run the hackless downoad and it works great. All it does is run Project M as an extension of Brawl for as long as you have the Wii on. I have instructions on how to put him in in the OP. all you need to do is replace a few files in the card and then you are done.
If you need any help I will definitely help you out.

Oh, I have the hackless version of Project M, but I was under the impression that I would need to hack my Wii in order for your Mewtwo to be added. If I don't have to hack my Wii, then I will definitely try it out. I'm assuming that if need be, I can go back to the vanilla version of Project M by just swapping the same files out? Could I could have two different versions of Project M in folders on my computer (One with your Mewtwo, one without) and whatever one I wanted to use could just be put on the SD card? Is it really that easy?

...That wasn't a jab at you or anything. Don't misunderstand. o_o

It's from the fact that Mewtwo himself isn't exactly the most tourney savvy character.

I'm only mentioning Taj's Mewtwo because it's the one exception everyone knows. Hell, for awhile, he had his own place on the Melee Tier List.

Ha! I know. I didn't actually take it personally. Taj's Shadowclaw combo video was the biggest reason I started maining Mewtwo years ago.

 

[Nguz95]

Oh, I have the hackless version of Project M, but I was under the impression that I would need to hack my Wii in order for your Mewtwo to be added. If I don't have to hack my Wii, then I will definitely try it out. I'm assuming that if need be, I can go back to the vanilla version of Project M by just swapping the same files out? Could I could have two different versions of Project M in folders on my computer (One with your Mewtwo, one without) and whatever one I wanted to use could just be put on the SD card? Is it really that easy?



Ha! I know. I didn't actually take it personally. Taj's Shadowclaw combo video was the biggest reason I started maining Mewtwo years ago.

Yes. That's actually exactly what I do. I have 2 Lucario folders in my computer, one with Mewtwo in it, and the other without. I just switch when my SD card is being used for something semi-important.
I was thinking that the next thing I would try to do would be to copy all the frame data from Melee Mewtwo's attacks to try and get him to feel perfect. I know that right now his jump height is off, and I think I have stumbled on a way to fix that, but I know for a fact that, with a little elbow grease, I can replicate the timing of all his Melee moves. Right now I have a few bandages on him to try and make him feel smoother, but I know that if I want to make him to really function well I need to get the frame data right. I know that there is a Mewtwo hitbox thread, and I know M2K has that awesome stats list, but do you know of any other resources I might need?

 

[SnatoWhato]

Could I could have two different versions of Project M in folders on my computer (One with your Mewtwo, one without) and whatever one I wanted to use could just be put on the SD card? Is it really that easy?

I kept the original Project M in a folder on my computer just in case I ever want to go back to the original specs. Or in case I do some hack that completely screws everything and I can't fix it. I also periodically save my current custom build on my computer just in case my newest hack goes wrong and I can't fix it.

I tend to try several things at once sometimes, and then something wasn't done right and the game will freeze and then I have to go back and fix a bunch of stuff. I usually can find the problem, but it's nice to have those back up folders. So I think its a good idea to at least save the original Project M in a separate folder. Just in case.

 

[Mewter]

Okay, I compared the two versions of Mewtwo and took notes, basically on small details to make the Mewtwo feel more genuine. I'm using the Project Mewtwo Model with the HD Mewtwo texture on top of it. I ran training mode at 1/4 to look at timing differences and also paused in FFA to get locations for jumps correct. The units in my timing measurements are unimportant. They're just to get a ratio for comparison going. There are some informative sketches in spoilers since they're a bit big:
(Probably) issue with my texture
Animation
Timing
Damage
Other

Spoiler

Wavedash seems pretty much identical to me. Same distance, same feel, same length of time for jumping into wavedash.
DAir movement Animation doesn’t feel like it lines up enough with spark animation, should also add a tiny bit more startup and ending to it because it feels a bit too quick. Also looks kind of thrown-together.
Body looks too motionless and tail moves strangely relative to it when running.

Idle:
Mewtwo doesn’t face forward enough
Tail too stiff and boring (top M, bottom Melee) instead of U-Wavy:

Spoiler

Doesn’t shake enough arms are going out or when holding one up in front.
Feet move too much (slide)
Doesn’t Blink
Top torso doesn’t match bottom
Right shoulder twitches weirdly
Arms go too wide/open (straight instead of bent)
Hands look lumpy (like paws/w fingers attached)
Weird curve in neck rod near top (scrunched because of angle head turns)
Jump:
First Jump:
Can’t short hop neutral A (initial jump too high for that):
M Left, Melee Right

Spoiler

Second Jump:
M Left, Melee Right

Spoiler

Falling:
Tail looks like it has two joints. Tip of tail moving naturally, like in Melee, would help. Comparison:

Spoiler

Bair:
Tip of tail doesn’t spring forward enough @ end of animation
Smashes:
All smashes but USmash should shake screen up-down
Down:
Charge: Should be a left-right shake of the model
Cooldown too Slow
Up:

Spoiler

Doesn’t Close Eyes
2x too slow startup animation (Arm rising)
(just noted) Fully Charge: M = 21%, Melee = 16%
Time Enemy caught in Attack (might have mixed this up): M = 11, Melee = 7
Flame Animation ratio (M:Melee) = 3:2
Aerials:
Forward:
(facing right) Tail placement is different:

Spoiler

Specials:
Side B:
(Facing right) Tail should come forward @ end and swing around:

Spoiler

(Facing left)Should be Purple model flash at beginning and open mouth, yellow eyes @ end

Spoiler

For M: Body not twisted around enough @ beginning as Melee’s is, shown above
@End: Tail positioning with head (facing right, M on left side Melee on right):

Spoiler

@End: Hand out to right in picture above when viewed on M Mewtwo not raised enough.

Teleport:
Length of time: M = 12, Melee = 10
Same startup, M = 4 ending w/ Mewtwo visible, Melee = 7 ending w/ mewtwo visible

Two light beams and two circles don't appear.
Mewtwo doesn't thin out when teleporting.
Mewtwo's ending should have him start facing the opposite direction and then spin quickly to the direction he is facing.
Mewtwo doesn't flash in and out for the first half of visible ending.

 

[Nguz95]

That ^ is awesome. Really thorough and really well done. I loved how organized you were, and you have given me a ton of really useful comparisons I can make. I just found all of his frame data, and I was comparing M and Melee, and I noticed some of what you noticed, but your analysis was much more thorough and revealed a lot more. Thank you so much for giving me a ton of information to work off of.
Quick question, which platform is Mewtwo jumping under for the first jump drawing (Yoshi's Story?), and is there a good stage where I can do the DJ comparison so I can make sure I have got it right when I fix it?
Thanks so much for the feedback. I think I can take care of some of them quickly, but a few are going to be more involved. The dair was made rather quickly btw, good catch.

Edit: I think I am going to tackle the frame data first, since I have not yet mastered the basics of animation editing. I can handle the frames faster and do a better job at the moment, so I think I will do them first.

 

[Mewter]

Great! I'm glad that you found my data useful.
The stage I used was Battlefield.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

As of now; the model still feels to much like a PVC dummy in a Mewtwo getup. This will probably get a little better as time goes on though. (A Melee Head Fox that blinks would be nice too...)

 

[Mithost]

One thing that confuses me about this PSA is that it is not on a character that currently takes up a slot in the P:M CSS. Port this over Yoshi or MK and I would use him all the way to demo 3.0

 

[Nguz95]

One thing that confuses me about this PSA is that it is not on a character that currently takes up a slot in the P:M CSS. Port this over Yoshi or MK and I would use him all the way to demo 3.0

That is an incredible idea... I can't believe I didn't think of it. Now i just need to figure out how to port him over one of those guys while still keeping the aura sphere. I believe, although I am not entirely certain, that one of Lucario's articles is his aura sphere, his neutral b. if that is the case, no other character has that article, which means that when you try him over a different character his aura sphere won't actually materialize. Snato tested this on wario, and the psa worked for the most part, but aura sphere did not work. Mewtwo would stay in the charge position, but no sphere would appear.
However, i believe there is a way to switch character articles in the game. I will be sure to look into this and let you know what I find ok Mithost?

 

[Mudkip97]

I have questions:
-Can you still choose to play as Lucario?
-Does Mewtwo have his original voice and move sound effects(not Lucario's)
-What is his final smash?

 

[Nguz95]

I have questions:
-Can you still choose to play as Lucario?
-Does Mewtwo have his original voice and move sound effects(not Lucario's)
-What is his final smash?

You can still select Lucario if you use this file patch http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=51912.0 that R@bid so kindly offered. It doubles the amount of characters you can have, which means you can have both Lucario and Mewtwo. His final Smash is a modified version of Lucarios. It is more purple, and it has rings around the blast instead of being just a jet of energy. Even if you use Mewtwo without the file patch code, the change will be reversible. All you hve to do is switch the character files back to Lucario and you will be back to normal. It's pretty easy and painless.
The sound effects are as close to melee as they can be. Some sounds, like his tilt sounds, canmot be replicated in game because they only existed in Melee. However, for the most part he sounds the same. If you want a perfect sounding mewtwo, check the original project thread (project mewtwo) for the correct download.
I hope you enjoy the PSA!

 

[Mudkip97]

-Well do you choose Lucario and Mewtwo like two separate characters or like Wario's costumes?
-Can I have a description as to how to download Mewtwo into Project M?

 

[Nguz95]

-Well do you choose Lucario and Mewtwo like two separate characters or like Wario's costumes?
-Can I have a description as to how to download Mewtwo into Project M?

I am not sure how the code patch works since I have not tried it. However, I have given a very detailed description of how to download Mewtwo in the OP. If you have any questions at all please feel free to ask.

 

[Mithost]

If the aura sphere itself is an article only belonging to Lucario, you could possibly put it over Samus (suit ver.) and use her charge shot as the sphere.

 

[Nguz95]

If the aura sphere itself is an article only belonging to Lucario, you could possibly put it over Samus (suit ver.) and use her charge shot as the sphere.

That is actually exactly what I was thinking. I will try it out and tell you how it goes. I will have to make my own modified css though.

 

[Mudkip97]

Here is a thought. Couldn't you copy 2 files of Lucario. Keep one but the second one is Mewtwo. Making two separate characters.

P.S. Could you give me a link of how to download Mewtwo for Project M?

 

[Mithost]

Is there a 2.5 Lucario ported over one of the unfinished characters? Then I could just grab that haha

 

[Nguz95]

Here is a thought. Couldn't you copy 2 files of Lucario. Keep one but the second one is Mewtwo. Making two separate characters.

P.S. Could you give me a link of how to download Mewtwo for Project M?

Here is the link:http://www.mediafire.com/folder/vyp9olmm9y29c/Mewtwo_Balance
For future reference, all the information you need, how to set him up, what i've done so far, etc, can be found on the first page in the first post. There I have detailed all the things you will need for this character.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask!
As for your first Idea, unfortunately you can't make a 1 slot character mod. I had to change every lucario file to make this work, so unfortunately they don't really share anything in common anymore.

 

[_R@bid_]

Nguz, if you want to port this Mewtwo over someone, then just use PhantomWings' Lucario Plug & Play .rel, which should be able to port the article too, and not require codes.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

Here is a thought. Couldn't you copy 2 files of Lucario. Keep one but the second one is Mewtwo. Making two separate characters.

P.S. Could you give me a link of how to download Mewtwo for Project M?

Son, if you could keep both files and have to characters running without the file patch; the PMBR would be the ones balancing Mewtwo for a public release. Sad thing is......we can't. The idea you brought up is known as a "Clone Engine", and is something that folks have been working on for a good long time. At this point; the only way to include characters like this Mewtwo is through the replacement of another character. The File Patch Code only switches the RSBE file that is being used at that time, which means you can not play as a added character, and the original simultaneously.

 

[Nguz95]

Nguz, if you want to port this Mewtwo over someone, then just use PhantomWings' Lucario Plug & Play .rel, which should be able to port the article too, and not require codes.

I didn't even know something like this even existed. Thank you so much R@bid! i will totally look into it. Mewtwo over MK, here I come!
Edit: where on earth is it? I feel like I'm being kind of useless, but could you please direct me to the right place? Sorry about that.

 

[Nguz95]

Nguz, if you want to port this Mewtwo over someone, then just use PhantomWings' Lucario Plug & Play .rel, which should be able to port the article too, and not require codes.

Please tell me more about the command grab. I'm actually really starting to like the idea more and more, especially since I figured out I can change his wd length by making his airdodge a tad longer. My idea has been glitching out like crazy, and I feel like it would be a huge change where I don't really need one. The down-b is pretty useless, but the side-b reflects projectiles and does this command grab thing you are tslking about. Are you talking about something like Bowser's side-b? Or are you talking about the thing that spins them around that you can get hit out of?

 

[PseudoTypical]

I just want to say thanks for your work, Nguz. My family, friends and I have all been hoping for a Mewtwo mod that works as well as yours with P:M for a long time. I'm looking forward to future updates.

I don't know how open people might be to this idea, but I think Mewtwo's F-tilt and D-tilt are far too similar. I'm not sure what they should be replaced with, though.

Thanks again!

 

[Nguz95]

I just want to say thanks for your work, Nguz. My family, friends and I have all been hoping for a Mewtwo mod that works as well as yours with P:M for a long time. I'm looking forward to future updates.

I don't know how open people might be to this idea, but I think Mewtwo's F-tilt and D-tilt are far too similar. I'm not sure what they should be replaced with, though.

Thanks again!

Thank you for your support! Right now i am working on making mewtwo a buffed copy of melee mewtwo, so when I get there i will definitely look at all his moves and how i could change them. Keep an eye out for my next update and please tell me how i did!

 

[Kati]

Oh, I have the hackless version of Project M, but I was under the impression that I would need to hack my Wii in order for your Mewtwo to be added. If I don't have to hack my Wii, then I will definitely try it out. I'm assuming that if need be, I can go back to the vanilla version of Project M by just swapping the same files out? Could I could have two different versions of Project M in folders on my computer (One with your Mewtwo, one without) and whatever one I wanted to use could just be put on the SD card? Is it really that easy?



Ha! I know. I didn't actually take it personally. Taj's Shadowclaw combo video was the biggest reason I started maining Mewtwo years ago.

so cute. Adding Mewtwo is no different than adding P:M. Only adding sound effects while using gecko or the hackless method requires more sophisticated work.

 

[_R@bid_]

Please tell me more about the command grab. I'm actually really starting to like the idea more and more, especially since I figured out I can change his wd length by making his airdodge a tad longer. My idea has been glitching out like crazy, and I feel like it would be a huge change where I don't really need one. The down-b is pretty useless, but the side-b reflects projectiles and does this command grab thing you are tslking about. Are you talking about something like Bowser's side-b? Or are you talking about the thing that spins them around that you can get hit out of?

http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=53347.0
There's the link to the plug and play rels. Just a warning however- these are pretty annoying with PM. I remember that I myself failed to get this to work, but I believe there were others that did succeed.
And for the command grab side B, there's several different approaches I was thinking you could take it. The easiest thing to do is just buff his current one. As it is, characters can hit M2 with an aerial before they hit the ground after spinning, and this could be fixed by either giving M2 really early IASA or by making slam the opponents into the ground at the end, with additional damage.
The alternative would be really awesome,but probably really hard to do. The grab, in most respects, is just like normal, though with faster startup. As before, he spins the opponent in the air. However, if he inputs a direction, the opponents will be moved there, through his psychic powers. He can move them like this for a little while, and at the end they are paralyzed in place briefly so M2 can reach and combo them. Also, it would've really cool if you could charge the move by holding down b, with the grab occurring after release. The longer the move has been charged, the greater the range of the grab box, becoming rather extreme at max charge. Of course, for charging to be useful, there'd likely have to be some way to keep the charge.
Hope that was somewhat articulate and sensical.

 

[Nguz95]

http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?topic=53347.0
There's the link to the plug and play rels. Just a warning however- these are pretty annoying with PM. I remember that I myself failed to get this to work, but I believe there were others that did succeed.
And for the command grab side B, there's several different approaches I was thinking you could take it. The easiest thing to do is just buff his current one. As it is, characters can hit M2 with an aerial before they hit the ground after spinning, and this could be fixed by either giving M2 really early IASA or by making slam the opponents into the ground at the end, with additional damage.
The alternative would be really awesome,but probably really hard to do. The grab, in most respects, is just like normal, though with faster startup. As before, he spins the opponent in the air. However, if he inputs a direction, the opponents will be moved there, through his psychic powers. He can move them like this for a little while, and at the end they are paralyzed in place briefly so M2 can reach and combo them. Also, it would've really cool if you could charge the move by holding down b, with the grab occurring after release. The longer the move has been charged, the greater the range of the grab box, becoming rather extreme at max charge. Of course, for charging to be useful, there'd likely have to be some way to keep the charge.
Hope that was somewhat articulate and sensical.

That last idea actually sounds like the coolest thing ever! It was very sensical and I had no problems picturing the move in my mind. You are right though, it would be really hard to do. However, I definitely will give it a shot since it is such an amazing idea. I am really excited about your suggestion!

Also, thank you for the info about the .rel. i will definitely give it a shot.

 

[SmashGuy]

I think you should replace Down-B. Make Side-B be a short-time stun and give the option of hitting up while stun time/jump up and hit down (Spike)/ hit forward for combos. That would be cool. But the only problem is I don't think it would be related to any of Mewtwo's pokemon moves...

EDIT: Whoops, I accidently posted after his. R@bid's post didn't show up... That sounds cool! Combos should really be stepped up. They kinda are now.

 

[AGFanProduction]

That would be sweet. I think i would be a little embarrassed though. My Mewtwo is probably so different than the Melee one. The challenge would be translating all the right frame data to the character so he feels perfect. Difficult, but not impossible.

You mean the right frame data from Melee Mewtwo to this new Balanced Mewtwo?

 

[\Apples]

So, I haven't read through much of the comments but I grabbed the most recent download and checked out the progress and here is my suggestion for a design process:

1. Get Mewtwo working as he was in Melee before going further with new stuff. Get his wavedashing and dash dancing working, get the DJC in, tidy up his animations so that his hitboxes match his attacks. This is very important because in order to judge the character for balance changes with regard to the rest of the cast, his attacks need to properly convey the information they contain to the players. Since the way we do this primarily is visuals, secondarily through sound; get his animations to match his attacks. This is important so that he can be properly tested.
2. Next, start implementing some of those changes. One at a time, start with the smaller changes. Play the character all the time and update us here with your progress. You need to utilize the community to help you playtest. You've already done this, so you're on the right track.
3. Implement the bigger changes. Normally, I would say start with the big changes and then design the rest of his moveset around those. But in this case, you have a template character that is already pretty unique and can be shaped well with careful tweaking. So while it's a bit awkward, design the bigger changes within the smaller changes.

Now, I used to play a decent amount of Mewtwo and I have a few things to contribute and critique on your design.

1. His aerial mobility has been returned to Melee-esque form

Approve. If anything, I think it'd end up being increased a bit, but this is only speculative. We'll see what direction his design goes in.

2. His weight has been increased to Ganon's

Approve.

3. Shadow Claw, Down B (don't know the name), and his grab range have all been increased in size.

Down B is called Disable, btw. This is good, increasing the size on Shadow Claw and his grab are going to help improve his approach just a little bit which he could use. Regarding Disable, I'm not so sure I even like the move but perhaps it could function a little like ZSS's Dsmash. Though that design feels tacky to me. Perhaps a new move is in order, but I don't know what just yet.

4. His size has been restored to Melee size

So, a large reason I think Mewtwo was so bad in Melee is because he was much too tall. Most of the games combat takes place on a more horizontal plane and thus, being taller exposes him to easy harassment. I recommend scaling him down so that he's shorter than Melee Mewtwo but still larger than Lucario, then tweaking his idle animation so that he stands a little less upright. This way, he still maintains a large presence as he should, but he doesn't suffer from being so damn tall like he used to.

5. The graphic on his double jump is no longer the size of a sonic boom. My bad on that one.

Cool.

6. The startup and ending lag on most of his smash attacks, his dash attack, and his down-b have all been halved.

So, I really like the idea of two things here: the dash attack and the Dsmash. I think it'd be nice for his Dsmash to have Melee start up lag, but virtually no end lag. Dsmash was often his finisher on fast fallers and one of his edgeguarding tools. Perhaps it should hit slightly below the ledge as well. This way, he can harass the ledge without exposing himself too much. He wasn't real hot at edgeguarding before.

Then, I really love the idea of something like this for his dash attack: just like Melee, there is little to no change in velocity when transitioning into the dash attack from the run. It comes out fast, stays out for a while and has almost no end lag. The knockback is still relatively weak and allows him to smoothly and seamlessly combo from it. This is essentially the "feel" I think should be aimed for in Mewtwo: smooth. The dash attack should have little shield pushback as well, so that when it's blocked, Mewtwo can still pass behind and continue pressuring from behind their shield. I saw a post above about a cool change to the SideB that allowed Mewtwo to essentially rotate his enemy around him. How cool would it be to give him a pseudo-reliable way in with that move via the dash attack? If when he put his hands out in front of him, he also could negate some projectiles, then this would be a pretty reasonable approach option. Akin to Wario's SideB but instead of being more of a combo finisher or tech chase option, it's more of a combo starter/approach/tech chase option. If this were the case, the pressure could become akin to that of the spacies in that when they aerial into your shield, your best option is often to buffer a roll away lest you get shined. Except this option is a little easier to prevent for 2 reasons which are closely entwined: that pressure can only be applied via one approach option, that makes it more predictable; and the fact that that option is relatively slow and linear. Love it.

7. He has a new dair! It comes out really fast and is more powerful.

Don't make it come out really fast, maybe just a little bit faster. A lot of what made that move useful was that Mewtwo could DJC with his Dair to time his descent properly and control his aerial trajectory and timing. This is something that severely disappointed me with Ness' new Project: M Dair. Sure it came out fast, but the timing was super ****ed compared to before and I didn't like it. Perhaps I've just not adapted to the new yet, but that's just me. I object this change.


So, let me take a look at this real quick...
Melee Jab: Terrible. Interesting idea: keep the move the same, just remove all graphical indication that Mewtwo is jabbing. It's a jab from the mind. This could birth some incredible mind games.
Melee Utilt: Don't change.
Melee Ftilt: Don't change, it's fine.
Melee Dtilt: Don't change, it's wonderful.
Melee Usmash: This is a cool move. It never kills and it doesn't need to. It'd be really interesting to try scaling the galaxy above his head outward really far. Have a weak effect on the outside with hitboxes that it inward and up slightly, then at the center toward the end of the move have it send upwards as it did before. Basically like a grounded Young Link Up+B that he places above his head. Could be pretty cool for extending combos and harassing platforms.
Melee Fsmash: I don't see a reason to change it just yet, but this wouldn't be a terrible move to tweak a bit.
Melee Dsmash: I talked about this above.
Melee Nair: Randomness at its finest. Make sure to copy this move over as close as you can, especially the hitboxes that hit below the ledge if you SHDJC it quickly.
Melee Uair: Excellent combo tool, I wouldn't change it for the world.
Melee Fair: The slight increase to the hitbox size is a fair change.
Melee Bair: Such a weird little bair. It's a really good move, but perhaps his little tail flick animation should actually have a hitbox like it always looked like it did. Just a small little sourspot with a pseudo-spike trajectory would do the trick methinks. That'd give this move some real nice utility. Almost like a weird Pikachu Uair with all the crazy trajectories that tail can send you, except one pseudo-spikes and one knocks horizontal and can be DI'd upward.
Melee Dair: Talked about this already. I am also unsure of how this should be changed, but I know that it shouldn't be sped up if anything at all.
Melee B: Fine as it was, perhaps a slight slight reduction in end lag on the uncharged Shadow Ball to make it just a tiny bit more spammable.
Melee UpB: No need to change it much IMO. Maybe allow him to grab the ledge a little bit earlier out of it, but even that's nitpicking and may not even be entirely desirable.
Melee SideB: It should remain a command grab IMO. Mind over matter is a prominent theme with the character. Being able to bypass the almighty shield with more than just a standard grab as a means of demonstrating that seems pretty expected of him in my eyes.
Melee DownB: Whatever this move does, it needs to just become more useful. Perhaps not super useful, but at least more than it currently is.
Melee Grab: If adjusted to match a slightly smaller Mewtwo, the grab radius just needs lowered to match. One problem with it in Melee was that it was too high and was very easily crouched, like Ganon's. I think making Mewtwo's grab game really solid is a great way of improving him as a character while still maintaining his "character".
Melee Uthrow: No changes at all.
Melee Fthrow: I would keep this the same, being able to throw projectiles in teams was useful in niche situations and I really think it should stay. But I could see this throw being change first if any of them were to be changed.
Melee Dthrow: Don't change it.
Melee Bthrow: Good throw to set up edgeguarding opportunities, I wouldn't change it.

Anyway, hope you find that constructive.

 

[Nguz95]

You mean the right frame data from Melee Mewtwo to this new Balanced Mewtwo?

Yes. Your project is incredible. It has all the correct animations and attacks, and the complexity of some of the stuff you guys did is beyond me. However, it was intended for Brawl. What I am trying to do first is restore all of his Melee attributes before I do anything else. I need to reduce the height on all of his jumps, which I have found is a combination of gravity, jump velocity, and the double jump multiplier. Then I need to reduce the length of some of his animations and then change the hitboxes accordingly. Finally, I need to get his technical stuff right, like his wavedash and his dash dance.

On that note, could you please tell me how you got his wavedash to work? I need to figure out where the right command is in PSA so I can add a few frames of landing lag so he doesn't shield at the end.

Thank you do much for your interest!

 

[Nguz95]

Insert awesomeness here

thank you so much for your feedback! I love your ideas, and I am definitely going to restore Melee Mewtwo first. Thank you again for all of that wonderful constructive criticism. I cannot really express how much I appreciate it!

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

Is there a decent Melee Import Model for Mewtwo out there? If we can add more individual bones in the tail; the animations could be made to fit a bit more accurately. Plus, we might be able to fix that slit at the top of his arm if we get the original model.

 

[PseudoTypical]

Is there a decent Melee Import Model for Mewtwo out there? If we can add more individual bones in the tail; the animations could be made to fit a bit more accurately. Plus, we might be able to fix that slit at the top of his arm if we get the original model.

I personally downloaded the Starwaffle model of Mewtwo long before I knew about Nguz's project. If you're dead set on a Melee-like model, though, I thought this and this were decent enough for all of the slots.