Project Ganondorf - Help get de-cloneing Ganon in smash ultimate trending!

[BronzeGreekGod]

Lucina - one of the many pieces of my suffering with the game lol, theres also Dark Pit....others and pretty much whats "not in the game"

Ya i agree with those points

 

[WEK-Sector Pirate]

Is the sound getting fixed?

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

EDIT: I figure some of you may have never seen an .ods file in your life, so I made a Google Docs version of the document (It's a type of Libre Office Calc/MS Office Spreadsheet).
Badaboom.

Google Docs online link here.

LEGEND:
BLACK=N/A
BLUE=Buff pls
JADE(Unused)=Consider buffing
GREEN=Good
YELLOW=Consider nerfing
RED=Nerf pls, see notes

KNOCKBACK? Goes from Inconsistent to more to Fair to Less to Unfair to INSANE/GODLIKE


One thing that was abhorrently obvious was that you tried to use PM 3.6 Dorf's percentages as a starting template. While that is okay for your first release, keep in mind he has three times the range normal Dorf has and thus does not need to have that much power on his faster moves. Hence the global 5% semi-joke I made last thread.

OOT Dorf should not be racking up the percent he does that fast. More like he need as a global 5% loss.

QUESTION TIME:

Spoiler

- Is up tilt not useful at all? Would you suggest a speed up there? I dont want it to be OP so not sure about it!

Up-tilt is most definitely OP. See ods.

- What would you do out of shield normally? Just so i have a better idea of where your problem here lies

Hard to say. That's a cool weakness of his, no super fast options. I recommend you keep it that way. Grab actually needs a nerf. See ods.

- also what do you mean exactly by less chance? Is it cause of the travelling angle?
Meant angle. It was intentional. Please disregard question.

- So youd suggest i speed up a move or 2? Down tilt NEEDS to be slow in my opinion cause when perfected, that tipper can be lethal
Disregard.

- maybe neutral air can be faster, as well as f-air
PLEASE DISREGARD.

- i duno if id make up and back air stronger either cause of their tippers
- thoughts?
I WAS A FOOL (a fool in love, earth angel~) PLEASE DISREGARD.

- as i mentioned i plan on speeding up jab and down tilt - do you think those would be the right choices? or maybe up tilt - or other?
I like him having this weakness, please don't speed up too many moves besides jab or else he'll go straight to S tier.

-So N-air is ok? I was thinking it should be fine cause its got a lot of coverage and its a semi spike. it should be pretty easy to pull off - but would you suggest a slight speed increase?
OH GOD NO, REMOVE ON HIT CANCEL PLEASE

- what would you suggest other than changing the angle [of OOT fair and bair]?
Fixing their high damage. Not much else.

- That being said maybe i need to make it more powerful?
I would lower nair's hit count a little to 10 hits for 10% max.

- i dont think it needs to be more powerful but i could be wrong - what would you say it needs to do?
Less damage and knockback overall. OHKO is fine.

- really? Like down b in the air? or the uppercut?
Down B, see ods.

- Do you think it needs to be stronger still?
F-smash, see ods.

The reason why I keep mentioning fair and bair is because their defense and combo-ability is too good together.

this is something i want to know more about - what do you think about the damage %'s in general? What attacks are too high?
See ods. For the most part tippers are too strong. I'll mention it if a non-tipper is bad.

- that being said what attacks specifically do you think SHOULD 100% have more knockback (maybe removing some sweetspots and making them more rounded would be a good idea?)
Nair on Sword Ganon along with a removal of OHC. Up air Sword. The rest just need to be toned down.

-Would u think that concept could work fine with some tweaking?
Yes, his tippers need to be less extreme because he has like 9-14 killmoves just because of the tippers. Some tippers could be damage and some knockback but either way they all need toning down on both counts, see ods.

- should i make down air easier to sweetspot?
No

- are the "B" attacks fine since theyre specials and such?
See ODS

Going through this all in detail now
(man all this feedback is great but boy is it exhausting mentally lol)

but i just wanted to come back to using vGanons hitboxes as a base - the sweetspots are in many cases based on vGanons kill hitboxes right. So what i was going for is - you really have to aim for the sweetspot to kill. Yes theres a lota range, but you have to get that tip or you're not killing anyone! So the shaft has a lot less power and is meant to just do some damage.

Now i havent read the drop down stuff yet - so forgive me if you went into more detail on this too.

Getting to that now!

Is the sound getting fixed?

What u mean?

 

[mikeyn1gm]

I thought it would be a unique addition. I wanted to have ganon hit people down and then have the opportunity to follow up - what i may do is add more frames between the hit and when you can cancel - as well as altering the power of the hitboxes to help fix this. I may be able to disallow repeating Nair over and over as well

That's EXACTLY how you made me feel about it. When I saw it, I was shocked like "holy crap he's windmilling his sword" which actually felt fresh for Ganon as a sword character. Here I was expecting the same sword crap with another sword character. It definitely stood out for me personally.

If you was to keep the On hit cancel though (repeating Nairs) then you would have to decrease the untipped damage a bit. (maybe the tipped damage too slightly)

From Patcherasu's excel file "He stops when he hits a ledge during the animation. Try to let it slide up a wall like Peach."

I think this what I wanted to say about the problem I was having with Up B.....Even if Ganon has the range to come back up....once you are hugging the wall and its not vertically straight leading up to the ledge, you're pretty much screwed. If I do a curve then I think I'm reducing the distance of the up B when I feel that I can confidently make it to the ledge by just going straight up

Edit: Actually I just mastered the turning or the "C" movement and I made it (Kirby's Dreamland N64 wall from the bottom).........Did you intend for the Up B to fail if it hits a curved or diagonal wall so that players are forced to do the "C" with Ganon's shadow realmport?

Edit2: I'm not too lucky doing this though and theres many times feel like I could of made the ledge with the distance of his Up-B

 

[GFD]

for dodges is ecb the transN bone?

ECB = Environment Collision Box, ie. the collision diamond. Though on second thought, the camera most likely just uses the TransN position, so yeah, that's what probably needs to be adjusted.

K just making sure thats what autocancel meant - it didnt seem like thats the way it was being used cause it was being referred to all aerials!

Autocancel and on-hit cancel are not the same thing.

Every aerial has some number of frames at the beginning and the end of the animation where, if they land during these frames, the character will enter their normal impact land animation instead of the longer landing lag animation for that aerial. (Usually, whenever someone talks about autocancelling, they're referring to the autocancel window at the end of the aerial's animation; the first autocancel window isn't useful, as there's no reason to autocancel an aerial before any hitboxes come out.) Try it out yourself with Sword Ganondorf's aerials; the timeframe where he'll enter his landing lag animations for those aerials if he lands is actually quite small, and is basically only when the hitboxes are active. Since you can shorthop fastfall autocancel all his aerials except d-air, you can spam them very quickly and easily, making it really difficult for anyone to approach you.

On-hit cancels were explained pretty well by Patcheresu back here.

 

[mikeyn1gm]

Autocancel is what you do in Smash 4 when theres no L-Cancel lol. (depending on the attack)

On-hit cancels are pretty much whats making your SwordGanon Nairs look sexy xD

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

From Patcherasu's excel file "He stops when he hits a ledge during the animation. Try to let it slide up a wall like Peach."

I think this what I wanted to say about the problem I was having with Up B.....Even if Ganon has the range to come back up....once you are hugging the wall and its not vertically straight leading up to the ledge, you're pretty much screwed. If I do a curve then I think I'm reducing the distance of the up B when I feel that I can confidently make it to the ledge by just going straight up

Edit: Actually I just mastered the turning or the "C" movement and I made it (Kirby's Dreamland N64 wall from the bottom).........Did you intend for the Up B to fail if it hits a curved or diagonal wall so that players are forced to do the "C" with Ganon's shadow realmport?

Edit2: I'm not too lucky doing this though and theres many times feel like I could of made the ledge with the distance of his Up-B

I did intend it yes. If it doesnt work well this way i will work on making it hug the wall properly!
Im gona also need to then disable wall cling (cause lucario has that etc)

 

[mikeyn1gm]

I did intend it yes. If it doesnt work well this way i will work on making it hug the wall properly!
Im gona also need to then disable wall cling (cause lucario has that etc)

It's because of wall cling? Didn't PM take off the wall cling from Lucario?

hmm...just found out ganon can walljump

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

ECB = Environment Collision Box, ie. the collision diamond. Though on second thought, the camera most likely just uses the TransN position, so yeah, that's what probably needs to be adjusted.

Autocancel and on-hit cancel are not the same thing.

Every aerial has some number of frames at the beginning and the end of the animation where, if they land during these frames, the character will enter their normal impact land animation instead of the longer landing lag animation for that aerial. (Usually, whenever someone talks about autocancelling, they're referring to the autocancel window at the end of the aerial's animation; the first autocancel window isn't useful, as there's no reason to autocancel an aerial before any hitboxes come out.) Try it out yourself with Sword Ganondorf's aerials; the timeframe where he'll enter his landing lag animations for those aerials if he lands is actually quite small, and is basically only when the hitboxes are active. Since you can shorthop fastfall autocancel all his aerials except d-air, you can spam them very quickly and easily, making it really difficult for anyone to approach you.

On-hit cancels were explained pretty well by Patcheresu back here.

Can the envoronment collision box be altered? This MIGHT be the thing i need to fix this. Do you know anything about this and how to manipulate it?


And ok ya i know what autocancel is - i was thinking this is waht u meant but i wanted to be sure!
So are you suggesting i make the window where you do an air attack landing animation bigger or smaller?

It's because of wall cling? Didn't PM take off the wall cling from Lucario?

hmm...just found out ganon can walljump

Ya i didnt mind having wall jump in there for him so i didn't worry much about it. BUT maybe its better if i do remove that too?

 

[Patcheresu]

Can the envoronment collision box be altered? This MIGHT be the thing i need to fix this. Do you know anything about this and how to manipulate it?


And ok ya i know what autocancel is - i was thinking this is waht u meant but i wanted to be sure!
So are you suggesting i make the window where you do an air attack landing animation bigger or smaller?

He can't have OHC and the tipper. It just will not work unless you crank this move down to like 4% and make it much more escapable.

Because he has the strength of Ganondorf with NONE of his weaknesses, has three times the range, and extra kicks to his moves to make them worse.

It really isn't fair too anyone else that Ganondorf gets to have 10 killmoves just because he has to sweetspot them. Mario doesn't complain about having bad range on all of his killmoves, which outside of smashes is I think just fair and dair, which have quite small sizes. Because that's the price he pays for hitting so damn hard. It's a little harder to kill with him.

If that sounds too harsh, at least consider the fact that when I marked those moves as red, its usually because I found a way to kill Mario or Zelda at 50% or so on Yoshi's Island, usually by Star KO by using these moves. Which is why I advocate so hard for knockback nerfs. The insane damage counts don't help.

Keep the insane damage, keep the insane knockback, or keep interesting tippers. Because right now he feels like Ike, Project Zeus edition. (Brawl- + PM) You can't have it all, no matter how hard you make the sweetspots to acquire. Other characters tend to have to work much harder for sweetspots like Game and Watch risking his life for his sole meteor.

There are several ways to go about making this fairer, but speed can't really be a good option since given dair, his moveset won't make sense if you nerf his speed in PM at this rate. So you either make him be a combo-er with bad damage and knockback and remove some tippers, high knockback tippers (with 1-2% extra damage), or high damage tippers with bad knockback.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

He can't have OHC and the tipper. It just will not work unless you crank this move down to like 4% and make it much more escapable.

Because he has the strength of Ganondorf with NONE of his weaknesses, has three times the range, and extra kicks to his moves to make them worse.

We're not talking about the nair cancel on hit lol
But ya i get it

 

[mikeyn1gm]

Ya i didnt mind having wall jump in there for him so i didn't worry much about it. BUT maybe its better if i do remove that too?

It's not a problem....not that I know of. I just wasn't expecting Flydorf to have it.

It's probably no harm if you leave it, no harm if you take it out.

Just wait for the next person to veto it lol.

 

[mikeyn1gm]

I didn't realize about the SwordGanon autocancel until now (I thought somebody just made a term error). It's present on his Uair, Bair and Fair (possibly on Nair). The reason why I didn't catch it was because I usually SHFFL. This would be great for Ganon in Smash 4 lol but not here. You can already L-cancel with hardwork and sweat to get those animation cancelling properties you implemented and its considered fair with the tourney dudes

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

EDIT: I figure some of you may have never seen an .ods file in your life, so I made a Google Docs version of the document (It's a type of Libre Office Calc/MS Office Spreadsheet).
Badaboom.

Google Docs online link here.

LEGEND:
BLACK=N/A
BLUE=Buff pls
JADE(Unused)=Consider buffing
GREEN=Good
YELLOW=Consider nerfing
RED=Nerf pls, see notes

KNOCKBACK? Goes from Inconsistent to more to Fair to Less to Unfair to INSANE/GODLIKE


One thing that was abhorrently obvious was that you tried to use PM 3.6 Dorf's percentages as a starting template. While that is okay for your first release, keep in mind he has three times the range normal Dorf has and thus does not need to have that much power on his faster moves. Hence the global 5% semi-joke I made last thread.

OOT Dorf should not be racking up the percent he does that fast. More like he need as a global 5% loss.

QUESTION TIME:

Spoiler

- Is up tilt not useful at all? Would you suggest a speed up there? I dont want it to be OP so not sure about it!

Up-tilt is most definitely OP. See ods.

- What would you do out of shield normally? Just so i have a better idea of where your problem here lies

Hard to say. That's a cool weakness of his, no super fast options. I recommend you keep it that way. Grab actually needs a nerf. See ods.

- also what do you mean exactly by less chance? Is it cause of the travelling angle?
Meant angle. It was intentional. Please disregard question.

- So youd suggest i speed up a move or 2? Down tilt NEEDS to be slow in my opinion cause when perfected, that tipper can be lethal
Disregard.

- maybe neutral air can be faster, as well as f-air
PLEASE DISREGARD.

- i duno if id make up and back air stronger either cause of their tippers
- thoughts?
I WAS A FOOL (a fool in love, earth angel~) PLEASE DISREGARD.

- as i mentioned i plan on speeding up jab and down tilt - do you think those would be the right choices? or maybe up tilt - or other?
I like him having this weakness, please don't speed up too many moves besides jab or else he'll go straight to S tier.

-So N-air is ok? I was thinking it should be fine cause its got a lot of coverage and its a semi spike. it should be pretty easy to pull off - but would you suggest a slight speed increase?
OH GOD NO, REMOVE ON HIT CANCEL PLEASE

- what would you suggest other than changing the angle [of OOT fair and bair]?
Fixing their high damage. Not much else.

- That being said maybe i need to make it more powerful?
I would lower nair's hit count a little to 10 hits for 10% max.

- i dont think it needs to be more powerful but i could be wrong - what would you say it needs to do?
Less damage and knockback overall. OHKO is fine.

- really? Like down b in the air? or the uppercut?
Down B, see ods.

- Do you think it needs to be stronger still?
F-smash, see ods.

The reason why I keep mentioning fair and bair is because their defense and combo-ability is too good together.

this is something i want to know more about - what do you think about the damage %'s in general? What attacks are too high?
See ods. For the most part tippers are too strong. I'll mention it if a non-tipper is bad.

- that being said what attacks specifically do you think SHOULD 100% have more knockback (maybe removing some sweetspots and making them more rounded would be a good idea?)
Nair on Sword Ganon along with a removal of OHC. Up air Sword. The rest just need to be toned down.

-Would u think that concept could work fine with some tweaking?
Yes, his tippers need to be less extreme because he has like 9-14 killmoves just because of the tippers. Some tippers could be damage and some knockback but either way they all need toning down on both counts, see ods.

- should i make down air easier to sweetspot?
No

- are the "B" attacks fine since theyre specials and such?
See ODS

K just got through this post finally. Still gotta look through the ods though

Just wanted to add - there were a few questions that were on one of my posts that you didn't respond to... This post:

Sword Ganon stuff:


the 5-6% global damage loss sounds good. Just to get more specific though, would you say this is more important to the tips? Or just straight up all hit bubbles that do more than 6% already? - and if yes would this go for specials as well (even though the specials were on the good list) or are specials fine in the damage department as well?


Nair - ya i did make a last minute switch to the tip of nair. I was trying it out and liked it, i did have a feeling it would need toning down though. Is the tip the MAIN issue? Like is the trajectory of the shaft fine as far as you can tell so far? (i know you said the on hit cancels are another problem, i have that in mind too!)


F and Bair - i realised you were talking about sword ganon here What i didnt get was worse meant for the enemy - did u mean better for the enemy as well?

- to remedy this, would you say i should make the shaft hits more powerful, and the tips weaker?

- What would you say about the trajectories of the shafts vs the tips? Do they need any changing?

- what do you mean about fair stringing into itself? Do you mean you can chace the enemy easily and do another f-air?

- When you say you have no desire to hit the sourspot - isnt that the point? The sourspot sucks, so it's important to aim properly with the tip? Like yes the long range is nice, but you have to actually catch the right spot or you'll hit the sourspot or even completely miss. I actually had some highly skilled players telling me (both ganons) knockback power wasnt high enough, and it should be easier to tip catch the tips, so i slightly buffed the size and knockback. (of course this is all up for change just sayin)

- on the previous point about sourspots - what kind of benefits/rewards would you say sourspots should provide to make you WANT to use the sourspot (cause it seems that is what you were saying was also needed, unless i misunderstood)
- and more specifically what do you think my sourspots need?

Uair- If i toned down the tip would that be acceptable?




OOT ganon stuff:


Does OOT ganon need to have a damage % drop on any attacks?

I'll see if i can tone down the multi hits wisely

I did comment on OOT jab lol thats why at the end of the last msg i mentioned to not miss my previous msg. Anyway i was asking is JAB broken or Attack100.. Now it sounds like it IS attack100 (correct me if im wrong there). I know what i need to fix to be able to escape, it has to do with the trajectories of the hitboxes mostly - and maybe they need to hit less often. I dont think the 1st jab is the issue (if it is jab 1 can u explain a bit more, cause i didnt understand what u meant by the jab should be hitting them "behind him" or whatever). On the attack100 note - other than it catching too well and being un escapable, if that issue is fixed how do u feel about the wind boxes pulling enemies in?

- And any notes on the other wind boxes for f tilt?


For oot pummel - do you mean his catch attack?
and what do u mean by slamming into the ground?



When it comes to OOT Ganon, I have a harder time really placing it. Just that I usually have absoutely no problem whatsoever hitting the sweetspot multiple times in a row.

- which sweetspot are you talking about here F-air?

And with fair, I can jump + fair, fast fall, repeat until they get so high in damage, they can't be juggled anymore.

- So do i need to change this trajectory? or the Base knockback maybe?

These moves are fast, reliable, and easily controllable, so they somewhat help OOT Ganondorf's strong weakness of having his options closed off when he is being jumped at in close range.

- so is this a good thing then? I'm getting mixed msgs here lol.
- What i am thinking is the f and b air need to be nerfed/changed and his other options need buffs - yes?

After you fix neutral B and change up-B, this might change.

- Whats wrong with up b?


OOT Ganon needs to be normalized a little more on his lighning moves (so hitting the final bolt is less powerful and miss it is less painful allowing for more consistency.

- By final bolt do u mean for all the electric attack's tips?
- also are the lightning attacks some of the BIGGEST issues with the darkness attacks being okay-ish other than the specific things you mentioned - like attack100

Also, what do you think off OOT D-air? I was told its TOO GOOD - is this the case? It has a meteor sweetspot at the tip as well - so i feel like THIS sweetspot should stay as is no? Or is there something you'd change here?


Lastly, could you point out to me what OOT attacks are Good to Okay for you (if any), the way you did with Sword Ganon? Just so i have an idea what needs less attention.



I realize opinions will change over time - thats why i urged people to give some time for the learning curve before they start giving opinions

buttt the dialogue is still good. Im making notes, but am giving it time to hear more opinions from more people as well! I like the way you are analysing though it helps me pick your brain a bit and understand the issues, so thanks for that! I appreciate all your feedback!

Hope you can sift through this! And i hope giving me feedback isnt becomeing a chore for you!
This is just all really tricky stuff that i want to get juuusssttt right.


EDIT: Also i just looked at the ODS, and its only for oot ganon right? Could you do one for sword ganon too?


Thanks again!

 

[mikeyn1gm]

K just got through this post finally. Still gotta look through the ods though

Just wanted to add - there were a few questions that were on one of my posts that you didn't respond to... This post:





Hope you can sift through this! And i hope giving me feedback isnt becomeing a chore for you!
This is just all really tricky stuff that i want to get juuusssttt right.

Thanks again!

Read his thingy.....it actually answers a lot of those bold questions that he left out.

It just 2 small excel tables. Like if he was giving you his homework assignment =)

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Read his thingy.....it actually answers a lot of those bold questions that he left out.

It just 2 small excel tables. Like if he was giving you his homework assignment =)

k thanks

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Last note before bed - What does everyone thing about both ganon's shield damages? Do they make sense mostly?

I'll talk to u guys tmro. Have a good night!

 

[mikeyn1gm]

On the bottom left of excel there should be 2 tabs. one of them says "Sword" and the other says "Prince"

 

[GFD]

Can the envoronment collision box be altered? This MIGHT be the thing i need to fix this. Do you know anything about this and how to manipulate it?

I know nothing about actually coding movesets, but the ECB can definitely be altered. Every animation has its own ECB pattern, which should roughly resemble the bone structure of the character. I haven't really been looking at the ECB patterns of these two, but I did notice earlier that the backside point of OoT Ganondorf's ECB during his floating animation seems to drift backwards in a way that doesn't make sense.

So are you suggesting i make the window where you do an air attack landing animation bigger or smaller?

The window where you will enter the aerial's landing lag if you land should be made much bigger for all his aerials. Except maybe d-air.

Some other things I forgot to mention:

• Sword Ganondorf's side-b has a huge ledgegrab box during the aerial running animation, as it extends pretty far both in front of him and behind him. A consequence of this is you can just side-b towards a ledge from on the stage, and as long as you're not holding down or away from the ledge on the control stick, you'll immediately grab it when you run off. This is pretty hilarious, but also doesn't make much sense, so I'd advise shrinking the ledgegrab box so it doesn't reach behind him during that animation.
• Sword Ganondorf's b-throw seems really useless; the victim barely goes anywhere. I would expect to be able to use this throw to get opponents offstage for an edgeguard situation.
• OoT Ganondorf's shadow animations seem to need cleaning up in more places than just the jab combo I mentioned earlier. In particular, I just noticed a weird vertical protrusion when activating shield, and a strange protrusion during grab.

 

[mikeyn1gm]

• Sword Ganondorf's side-b has a huge ledgegrab box during the aerial running animation, as it extends pretty far both in front of him and behind him. A consequence of this is you can just side-b towards a ledge from on the stage, and as long as you're not holding down or away from the ledge on the control stick, you'll immediately grab it when you run off. This is pretty hilarious, but also doesn't make much sense, so I'd advise shrinking the ledgegrab box so it doesn't reach behind him during that animation.

Lol you're talking about the edgehog panic dash? xD

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

On the bottom left of excel there should be 2 tabs. one of them says "Sword" and the other says "Prince"

oh haha wow I'm blind

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

I know nothing about actually coding movesets, but the ECB can definitely be altered. Every animation has its own ECB pattern, which should roughly resemble the bone structure of the character. I haven't really been looking at the ECB patterns of these two, but I did notice earlier that the backside point of OoT Ganondorf's ECB during his floating animation seems to drift backwards in a way that doesn't make sense.

The window where you will enter the aerial's landing lag if you land should be made much bigger for all his aerials. Except maybe d-air.

Some other things I forgot to mention:

• Sword Ganondorf's side-b has a huge ledgegrab box during the aerial running animation, as it extends pretty far both in front of him and behind him. A consequence of this is you can just side-b towards a ledge from on the stage, and as long as you're not holding down or away from the ledge on the control stick, you'll immediately grab it when you run off. This is pretty hilarious, but also doesn't make much sense, so I'd advise shrinking the ledgegrab box so it doesn't reach behind him during that animation.
• Sword Ganondorf's b-throw seems really useless; the victim barely goes anywhere. I would expect to be able to use this throw to get opponents offstage for an edgeguard situation.
• OoT Ganondorf's shadow animations seem to need cleaning up in more places than just the jab combo I mentioned earlier. In particular, I just noticed a weird vertical protrusion when activating shield, and a strange protrusion during grab.

Ha I know about te shadow issue. I don't yet know how to fix it though. I need to figure that out somehow.

And I'll look into the other things thanks!

 

[WEK-Sector Pirate]

What u mean?

Oot Ganon sounds are broke, for me at least could anyone lend me their Oot Ganon sawnd file and see if that works, cuz I have no voice, or lighting effects

 

[Patcheresu]

Oot Ganon sounds are broke, for me at least could anyone lend me their Oot Ganon sawnd file and see if that works, cuz I have no voice, or lighting effects

It seems like you didn't follow the instructions for his sounds right.

Make sure you add the modules/ft_lucario.rel, the sawnd FILES, and the codes/RSBE01.gct (or add the porting code to your .gct) from the zip.

All three are are necessary for the sounds to work.

 

[ImaFiend]

I think Sword Ganon would not suffer from losing a global -5% on anything that isn't already 6% or below. His tippers kill at 80%. That is unbelievably broken. Otherwise, his moveset is okay besides On Hit Canceled Nairs, which I am still wary about.

You do realize that all of sword Ganon's aerial tippers do the same damage and knockback as vanilla Ganon's aerials right (excluding sword Ganon's uair)? Hitting his tippers is a lot harder than hitting vanilla Ganon's aerials by a long shot. I don't think his aerial tippers need to be nerfed at all but his uair and nair could develop into a problem if exploited to its fullest.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Oot Ganon sounds are broke, for me at least could anyone lend me their Oot Ganon sawnd file and see if that works, cuz I have no voice, or lighting effects

There's no reason it shouldn't work other than you installed something wrong, or you didn't replace the gct properly or something.

I'm not sure how to help you at this point besides coming over there n doing it for u lol

 

[ImaFiend]

There's no reason it shouldn't work other than you installed something wrong, or you didn't replace the gct properly or something.

I'm not sure how to help you at this point besides coming over there n doing it for u lol

I am not sure what caused it but my sound for OOT Ganon did not work yesterday (even though it has ever since friday). I tried restarting the system, resetting it, and switch between Ganon's until it worked but nothing happened. Also keep in mind that my OOT Ganon had the same "symptoms" as his. When I loaded up project m today it just randomly started working (after my brother finished a couple matches with Ike and no Ganon's present). I don't know if this guy just installed it wrong or there is just a bug, just try and look into it I guess.

 

[SwiftNinjaBlackMan]

will this work on dolphin?

 

[GFD]

Sure.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

I am not sure what caused it but my sound for OOT Ganon did not work yesterday (even though it has ever since friday). I tried restarting the system, resetting it, and switch between Ganon's until it worked but nothing happened. Also keep in mind that my OOT Ganon had the same "symptoms" as his. When I loaded up project m today it just randomly started working (after my brother finished a couple matches with Ike and no Ganon's present). I don't know if this guy just installed it wrong or there is just a bug, just try and look into it I guess.

Theres ONE thing that just came to mind. I have seen a funny glitch sometimes where the sfx dont work properly. The only times i have noticed this is when MewTwo has been loaded with OOT ganon right on the first match. I havent confirmed that this IS the issue, but maybe you can test it out. Boot up the game and play with mew2 and OOT ganon, and see if he has no sfx or what.. then quit, and do another match with another character and oot ganon. that i found works. AND THENN if you pick mewtwo again after, it ll work just fine.

Does this make any sense?

 

[SwiftNinjaBlackMan]

can someone explain how to do this on dolphin?

 

[Patcheresu]

Okay, after playing around more with Sword Ganon, I see another problem with too many tippers.

He has a strong weakness against the fastest characters and the combo heavy ones who dominate PM. The matchups are solid red (-3 against Ganon) because they can spit on him and shield everything he does in response.

Normal PM Dorf has several tools with high knockback to stop this from occurring. Really fast aerials, down-B, forward B...

I knew I had it when I lost to a Marth at 273%. Down smash, fair, and nair were all they let me take stocks. Down-B's surprising range was very helpful in approaches. Side-B Canceled Shield Grabs are hilarious, as is the ledge grabbing.

This Dorf is actually kinda lacking in those, so he suffers even more in the same matchups.

I feel like this will go away if jab and down tilt are altered, so Wednesday, I'll do some tests and see what difference it makes.

 

[zorbb]

Theres ONE thing that just came to mind. I have seen a funny glitch sometimes where the sfx dont work properly. The only times i have noticed this is when MewTwo has been loaded with OOT ganon right on the first match. I havent confirmed that this IS the issue, but maybe you can test it out. Boot up the game and play with mew2 and OOT ganon, and see if he has no sfx or what.. then quit, and do another match with another character and oot ganon. that i found works. AND THENN if you pick mewtwo again after, it ll work just fine.

Does this make any sense?

I'm kind of having the opposite of this problem, when I start a match with OoT Ganon and Mewtwo, Mewtwo doesn't have any sound. Is there a way to fix this or should I just try re-installing everything?

 

[GFD]

Slow down there, buddy.

Also, I noticed that b-air and u-air use identical animations for their landing lag. Is one of these temporary?

can someone explain how to do this on dolphin?

If you're not doing netplay, the simplest way is to make a virtual SD card, set Brawl as the default ISO, and run the PM launcher. Don't ask for more help in this project's thread; look around the forums or make a thread somewhere else instead.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

I'm kind of having the opposite of this problem, when I start a match with OoT Ganon and Mewtwo, Mewtwo doesn't have any sound. Is there a way to fix this or should I just try re-installing everything?

It's something ill probably need to fix for the future

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Okay, after playing around more with Sword Ganon, I see another problem with too many tippers.

He has a strong weakness against the fastest characters and the combo heavy ones who dominate PM. The matchups are solid red (-3 against Ganon) because they can spit on him and shield everything he does in response.

Normal PM Dorf has several tools with high knockback to stop this from occurring. Really fast aerials, down-B, forward B...

I knew I had it when I lost to a Marth at 273%. Down smash, fair, and nair were all they let me take stocks. Down-B's surprising range was very helpful in approaches. Side-B Canceled Shield Grabs are hilarious, as is the ledge grabbing.

This Dorf is actually kinda lacking in those, so he suffers even more in the same matchups.

I feel like this will go away if jab and down tilt are altered, so Wednesday, I'll do some tests and see what difference it makes.

Ya I guess we'll have to see how it goes with those 2 speed increases.

Do you suggest I pick an attack or 2 and make them good kill moves with no tipper?


And for oot ganon, was reading your writeup - so seems you think up tilt is fine right? It was noted to be fair and good, and no extra notes on it. I'm thinking of making it a bit faster, fewer hits, and a bit smaller in diameter. Thoughts?

 

[Quillion]

Hey BronzeGreekGod , can you release the txt codes so that we can incorporate this into custom builds? Sorry if you already answered.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Slow down there, buddy.

So what are you suggesting for slowing down the aerials? Auto cancel needs to move? (the frames where "air attack-landing" is activated upon contact with the ground). It looks like in that clip you're constantly landing a normal "heavy" landing.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Hey BronzeGreekGod , can you release the txt codes so that we can incorporate this into custom builds? Sorry if you already answered.

its in the thread somewhere, but here:

04AD8A64 00000142

Thats all you need

 

[Guel]

Plan to add this soon sometime wthin the next hour. Really looking forwarf to the magic ganon. Is it possible to replace my current fist ganon with the lucario magic one? that way leaving lucario in tact while at the same time giving me the new ganon. i havr noticed the other smashboards post regarding placing psas over other characters but would it be possible to do with yours?