"Professor Palutena does it again!" - Palutena tech (AT or general) thread

[wpwood]

Professor Palutena is ready to lab
​

In this thread we'll talk about ALL of Lady Palutena's tech, but let's try to keep it more default based when we talk about special moves. If you want to talk about tech using custom moves that is fine, but do remember that custom tournaments are few and default Palutena is just as solid a character. Let's try to cover all aspects of a tech before moving on to another one. I know this thread is kind of late and there have been a lot of techs discovered to talk about, but let's try to keep it organized as best as possible. I also understand if a new tech is discovered it should be posted here, but lets not jump ship on the tech we were talking about until we feel most everything has been covered. Leaving something half done does us no good. Talking about how to do a tech, how it can be applied to her game play, when it should be used in her game play, and similar topics are everything that needs to be considered when talking about a tech.

We all want to see the Goddess's meta evolve and this will help. I also want this to help players who may be new at trying to play Palutena because some of these techs may prove very useful in practicing with the Lady. Many, if not all of us, might be very surprised by what Palutena can do. Just making this I realized how much there is to practice and possible applications of each tech.

Rules:
1) No double posting please, it makes for unnecessary scrolling and can be confusing sometimes to read that way. I know I am guilty of doing that once or twice.

2) Respect your fellow posters. We are discussing how to apply tech to her play style, so should you feel someone's suggestion of application is dumb or wrong use constructive criticism to get more of an explanation from the person and maybe you'll better understand what that person is trying to say. Don't think your way is the only right way of applying a tech; there are multiple ways to use any tech and it is our job to find all of them.

3) Respect the tech being discussed. Even the simplest tech needs to be discussed to its fullest. Palutena has a lot of problems and therefor can not afford to pass up anything. The tech you want to discuss will come up eventually so help out with the one currently being discussed.

4) Don't be and don't feed trolls, although I think that is a universal rule it should be said.

5) If possible, please link where you found the tech, preferably a video explaining what the tech is or a video showing the tech in action.

6) Tell us your thoughts. It does no one any good if you just read about the tech and don't give your input. Discussion can not happen alone and through discussion we may find a use we would not have thought of on our own. Get a little crazy with the use of a tech; even if it is niche, Palutena will have an advantage (or less of a disadvantage) in that niche.


List of Techs that has no effect on the order in which techs should be discussed:
(I'll edit this list as more tech is discovered or someone tells me things I forgot)

Ledge canceling warp

Swag walking

Barrier Trump (When reflect barrier trumps shield. Is this already named and anyone have a video?)

Perfect Pivots

Lagless get up

Hurtbox Shifting + Momentum Canceling (Separate techs but same video)

Sliding Pivots

A-landing (with Fair and we could do the rest of the one smash techs)

U-Turn

Foxtrotting + Shortened Dash (Video is on Foxtrot canceling and I can't find one on shortened dash. Techs are similar)

Frame Cancelled Aerials (Video focus on Falco but concept applies. Mostly with dair)

Double Sticking (100% SH and buffered aerials)

Above Ledge Warp Snap (IDK actual name, but you get full invincibility supposedly. Video?)

Dash Delay (Waiting for the last frame of dash to do a dash option, attack or grab, and gain a speed boost)

Missing Tech TBA.



Now what should we talk about first? My brain is a little fried after making this so I'll let someone else choose and start.

 

[mrpocari21]

First of all, thank you for making this thread! It's a great idea to organize all the things Palutena can do and discuss them. Idk if anyone else wants to talk about anything in particular, but I'm curious about Palutena's Extended Dash Dance / foxtrot cancel. Has anyone been able to pull this off? I can't seem to find the timing for Palutena's foxtrot; most of the time I just dash, stop, then dash again but not actually foxtrot. It seems like it'd be a really good tool for us since it can be used to bait punishable moves or just to play mind games and having an extra movement option doesn't hurt

 

[wpwood]

I don't think Palutena can foxtrot cancel, she can foxtrot, like other characters can because she isn't actually on the ground when she dashes. However dashing, waiting, dashing is still effective just not on the level of foxtrot canceling. I put shortened dash on there and combined with regular dash distance and swag walking can make for great spacing getting in and out. Shortened dash is something I found when I was trying to find out how to foxtrot cancel with Palutena. It is done by doing dash and moving the control stick down to slow down her movement speed of the initial dash. I don't know what other characters can do this but I think it works well with Palutena. It allows her to do (True?) foxtrots more often and changes the range of her foxtrot which can play a great part in the spacing and mind game. Combine that shortened dash and regular dash with dash delay (does that have a name already) and Palutena becomes a much stronger character on the ground. Dash delay was something I found when playing Falcon and I would dash in wait for it to look like I stopped and then dash grab. Falcon's dash grab has great range so it was a pretty good tech for him, but Palutena has an invincible dash attack with good speed boost at the start. Combining all of these into Palutena's ground game makes her much stronger on the ground and can set her in the right position for her aerials too.

Maybe it's just me not being able to foxtrot cancel, but I don't think she can do it. If someone can correct me go ahead. I think shortened dash is the best way to do foxtrots. Can anyone do u-turn? I seem to do her turn around animation, which can be jumped out of and dashed out of so not the worst situation. I might just be messing up, but messing up a tech can be good too, like messing up PP to get a pull back dash attack. Messing up u-turn can bait a punish from the opponent and Palutena can jump or dash to avoid the punish and then punish the opponent.

 

[mrpocari21]

If that's true that's a shame. It seems weird that a character wouldn't be able to foxtrot cancel if they have a foxtrot, since a foxtrot cancel is just a foxtrot followed by one dash dance into another foxtrot. Well I'll spend some more time in the lab finding the timing for the foxtrot. So for the inputs for the shortened dash is just left/right and immediately down? Or is it the same as doing a slow run but applied to the initial dash animation?

As for u-turning I think I can help you there. So it sounds like you're letting go of the 2nd input too early. So for example you initially dash to the left, so you input right to get the turn around animation. Keep holding right until your momentum slingshots to the right, then return the joystick to neutral and input an attack, grab, etc. If you hold right for too long, you'll go back into your dash animation and then your options will be limited. Once you get the timing down, you'll be able to shorten or extend the distance you slingshot back by adjusting how long you hold right.

 

[wpwood]

For the shortened dash I just kinda roll my joystick down and a little to the back and then release and possibly go into another dash. You may find yourself doing crouch a few times and you just have to stop holding down sooner if you're doing that. It's like holding down increases the force pushing Palutena back or down which causes dash to be shorter. You could also lightly tap dash, but sometimes I feel I tap too soft or too hard causing me to not dash or dash too far. Going down seems to work better for me. There might be a few other characters that can't foxtrot cancel, but I can't do it with Palutena no matter how hard I try but I can foxtrot with her. If you're doing the skid walk you're doing the next dash too late and need to do it just a bit sooner. I would love to see what I could do out of that skid walk but I can't time it right to align with any inputs; it does a skid so will it be a dash option or a standing option?

I'll work on the u-turn tech tomorrow, trying what you said. I'll come back and say how it goes.

 

[MzNetta]

I'm practicing the ledge cancelling warp on Battlefield and I'm having a bit of trouble. I can do it once or twice on the top platform but I keep accidentally using reflect when trying to hit up B + the diagonal toward the ledge. Is there anything i can change about my control scheme to make this easier? is it better to have the c-stick set to special attacks so that you can flick it up and angle the warp smoother and without risk of doing a side or down B? Any tips or suggestions are greatly appreciated, as i would love to be able to better take advantage of stages with platforms.

 

[4chanJoe]

One thing that helped me get the muscle memory down is to go into training on battlefield and practice warp cancelling at half speed on top platform. I'd usually say 1/4th speed but I feel that the motion and angle of the warp is easier to learn at half speed with the added bonus of being at a speed that encourages repeating the up b to downward angle motion fairly smoothly. Once consistent at half speed, just crank up to 2/3rd or normal speed and just do the motion faster. Another good tip; for ledge cancelling on edges the easiest way to get a distance marker is to do a ledge get up and warp towards the middle of the stage and make a note of where you come out of warp. From there, you have the distance marker for how long you would have to warp directly sideways for the warp to ledge cancel safely and not lead to an SD. Another good thing to keep in mind is if you hold down and toward ledge, the distance is roughly cut in half. A good item of research to do is to go to all the legal stages and do this, so you can find an object in the background and use that as your marker so you know for certain where the start point is.

Above all, remember that tech skill errors are okay. I do the same thing too. It's honestly a thing I just had to get over with practice. One thing to remember with tech like this is practice makes perfect. I remember when I discovered ledge cancelling warp and thought "there is absolutely no way I am going to get this good with using warp" but now I'm at the point where I can basically jump around Battlefield with relative ease. Granted I'm not perfect; I make the same tech skill flubs during matches where either side b comes out or I overextend my warp and SD. I just have the technique down where I can keep it happening as rarely as I humanly can. It's all in the practice. Just keep at it and it'll eventually become easy.

 

[wpwood]

To avoid doing reflect or autoretical I exaggerate the up b motion and then quickly angle towards the ledge I want to cancel on. Exaggerating the motion helps me to realize the timing for it and I can move the joy stick fast enough so I don't warp straight up. I say exaggerate but really I'm just setting the joystick back to neutral and going back up to where it can go up anymore and not just slightly pressing up. I wouldn't put C-stick to special, there are better options in having it as smash or attack. I personally have it set to attack for PP tilts and I can do pivot f-smash without c-stick on smash. That's my person preference for c-stick though. Reducing the timing can help, but I can't get that to work for me. Although slowing the game down and then speeding it back up helps me even if I can't do the inputs at a slower speed. With practice you'll get better at it and have less technical flubs.

 

[PHP]

wpwood have you tried b reverse AR off the ledge? I think it's pretty effective but it's just my preference. haven't had any input on my other threads so I'll just post here

 

[wpwood]

What do you mean by that? Like jumping off and doing falling AR while the person is on the stage or jumping off to use AR while the opponent is off stage? I guess if you jump off > AR the shots could hit the person if they're not expecting it and have an up b that needs to charge when they're off stage. If the person is on stage the shots would just hit the stage and put you on the ledge which is bad.

 

[PHP]

What do you mean by that? Like jumping off and doing falling AR while the person is on the stage or jumping off to use AR while the opponent is off stage? I guess if you jump off > AR the shots could hit the person if they're not expecting it and have an up b that needs to charge when they're off stage. If the person is on stage the shots would just hit the stage and put you on the ledge which is bad.

Gimp > b reverse AR
Or ledge guard
It is surprising effective

 

[wpwood]

I need a video to understand what you're talking about. Unless someone else knows what you're saying. I can't seem to understand it though.

EDIT: Took a few days but I got the timing for foxtrot down pretty good and I can correct myself and say that Palutena CAN do the extended dash dance. The timing is just very different from other characters. I can't really explain how to foxtrot but I can say that Palutena seems to rock back and forth. That is probably because her feet do not touch the ground when she runs and the initial dash requires her feet to be on the ground, but your feet will not touch the ground during the foxtrot and just get really close instead. I hope the description of the animation is a good enough detail to help understand the timing for foxtrot.

Also I was practicing a little with U-turn and u-turn up tilt seems it could be a good ledge coverage. You'll be out of range of most dash attacks, can react to a roll on stage, covers jumps and standard get up, and can kill at high %. You could also do grabs or shield if you don't want to commit to the up tilt. All you need to do is do the first half of u-turn,which is just dashing and turning around, and then you can dash out of that and repeat so that you stay in a relatively small area that you can react out of with u-turn.

 

[mrpocari21]

Yeah, I feel the timing for the foxtrot seems to be really fast/strict so I haven't been able to perform it really. Would it be possible to make a video just so that we can see what it's supposed to look like for palutena? As well as may help a little with learning the timing.

That seems like a good application of u-turning. It might be a bit difficult to get used to timing though since the turn-around animation takes a little while. I can see it covering rolls pretty well, but not sure if it can cover both rolls and normal get-ups at the same time because of the difference in positions when the invincibility runs out. Either way, I'll have to look into applying u-turning in my gameplay. I have to say though that it's really fun to run away, u-turn, and jab as your opponent tries to chase you.

 

[mrpocari21]

Auto reticle locking?

What exactly are you asking?
For example: What is it? How do you do it? How can you set it up/ What are good follow ups after it?

 

[mrpocari21]

If you wanted to add it to your tech list.
just trying to help sis

Sorry if I came of as rude or aggressive. It definitely wasn't my intention. I just wanted to know what you were asking so that if you were asking for help, we would be able to better understand the issue and more easily be able to help. Once again sorry if I came off as rude!

While we're on the topic, shall we discuss different ways we can set up/abuse the auto reticle jab lock? So far the only set ups I know of are down throw onto a platform, back air to hit opponents off a platform at low percents, auto reticle off a platform, and on certain characters jab(s) to footstool.

 

[PHP]

wpwood this isn't really jab lock relevant but it's interesting. I was in the lab yesterday and I found out that warp cancel > AR, reflect, and counter are pretty good especially on battlefield and other stages with platforms. Also, when performing instant getup from the ledge it helps to fair into the stage and AC fair, it's a little slower but it's still faster than her other options.

EDIT: http://m.imgur.com/USOW1qa we should also talk about this