Prepare to be Astounded One Last Time: Wiseguy’s Brawl Predictions THE FINAL VERSION!

[Wiseguy]

I do feel that way for the Paper Mario games...I just didn't like Super Paper Mario as much. The rushed story and the awkward gameplay just disappointed me after the flooringly amazing first two games. I just hope Intelligent Systems doesn't destroy Metroid as badly (which I seriously doubt they will) and that Kirby's Adventure for the Wii doesn't get the same destructive, gimmicky treatment in the transition.

Although I personally prefer PM: The Thousand Year Door, I didn't have an major problems with the gameplay or story in SPM. On the contrary, I found the the writing and characters to be appropriately zanny and hilarious and the gameplay to be a rock solid hybrid of a platformer and a action adventure - with some great inovations like the flipping to 3-D mechanic. Heck, you get to play as Bowser - that alone makes the game awesome in my books.

For the sake of argument, let's say that the SSBB team does consider continuity to be an issue. If they go with TP Zelda, then she loses her OoT-based moveset; no more Din's Fire, Faore's Wind, Nayru's love, or Sheik. She would necessarily require a different moveset. No character's B moves were significantly changed from SSB to SSBM, and we have no evidence so far that returning characters will have significantly different B moves in SSBB. If that's the case, the team will at least retain her Melee B moves, which (for the sake of continuity) would require her to have her OoT look, which would make it likely for Sheik to return.

If they go with TP Zelda, she would (for the sake of continuity) need new B moves, or the team would at least need to give her moves new names and new looks that match what was seen in TP.

Welcome back Arteen.

No character that we know of has drastically altered B moves. I anticipate that characters like Zelda, Peach and perhaps even Luigi will get all new B attacks.

Really, waht possible incentive is there to include a character from a ten year old game when TP Zelda is far more relavent and current? Including OoT Zelda/Sheik would creating 2 updated character models and balancing two old movesets (one severly underbalanced and one severely over balanced). Simply put, it would require more work to include the outdated, irrelivant version of Zelda than the newer, superior TP Zelda.

It's probably most likely that her new look will be based off of TP. Still, the team could easily take her OoT look and give it as much detail as the TP look.

They could slap Mickey Mouse ears on Link too, if they wanted. But there is no conceivable reason to do so.

Also, technically, the latest Link style at the release of Melee was his Oracle look, which was based off the way he looked in every game besides OoT and MM. I think that with Melee, all the returning characters were just given more detail. The team didn't attempt to give any of the returning characters a look that was drastically different from its previous incarnation. It seems to be going both ways in Brawl; some characters like Mario and Samus are more or less just given more detail, and characters like Fox and Link look stylistically different from their Melee incarnation.

Again, we don't know how drastically many of the characters from Melee have been altered - if at all. But including TP Link, TP Zelda and TP Ganondorf is the logical step to take - given how well TP continues to sell.

As a side note, I see Link's TP look more as an evolution and combination of his OoT and non OoT looks than a new style in and of itself. I would consider WW Link to be a new style in and of itself.

You can believe whatever you want, friend. But Sakurai specifically said in the Link Dojo update:

"The design of this particular Link comes from The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess."

Case closed.

That very well may be where that gameplay element ends up, with Sheik removed. It is certainly strong evidence for Sheik's removal. Still, we don't yet know how the switch works with Samus, and that switch is likely to only be one-way.

Maybe, maybe not. We'l have to wait to here the specifics.

The difference is that Sheik is a unique character and Pichu is an uninspired clone.

Falco is also a clone, and he's even more popular than Sheik. Why? Because most Smashers cop out and choose the characters with the most powerful movesets, not the ones that they like best personally. Popularity shouldn't be a factor in deciding if a Melee character returns or not - becuase popularity is dependant on their status on the tier list, which can and does change. The importance of that character in their series of origin is how best to decide whether or not they will return.

Well, I see your point and I agree with it to an extent. It helps that Sheik is a unique character in her own right (and can switch back and forth to Zelda at will) and Pichu is only a clone whose moveset could be mapped to Pikachu easily. I happen to enjoy playing Zelda and Sheik together, but of course Sheik's overwhelmingly powerful moveset overshadows the attempt at making the character switch a significant gameplay element.

Zelda/Sheik was a good idea on paper, but rather than having one character with two movesets what they winded up including was one stupidly overpowered character with a down-B that noone uses. One character for the price of two. Lame.

Okay, so she's not a significant character to the Zelda series as a whole, but the Melee team certainly thought she was worth the effort at the time. I'm under the prediction that all unique movesets will return (a questionable guess as you've previously said), but if I'm wrong, then it's much more likely Sheik would not return.

Thought. Past tense. At the time, OoT was getting all the buzz. Not TP is. Expect to see TP Zelda replace Zelda and Midna replace Sheik. 2 characters for the price of two. Sounds about right to me.

Maybe. I haven't played NSMB yet, so I don't know how significant he is in that game. If Brawl needed yet another Mario rep, I think he would have a good shot, but I think Mario has enough reps as it is, and all the current reps are much, much more significant than Bowser Jr.

Yoshi, Wario and DK represent their own spin off series - so they aren't considered Mario reps. That being the case, Mario only has 4 reps. I think Nintendo's biggest franchise deserves at least on more.

I recently acquired a DS and Command, and it's actually a pretty fun game and I like how the characters are portrayed. I like Krystal much more in Command than in Adventures or Assault (although everything was portrayed badly in Assault). She is portrayed as a significant character in her own right, instead of as little more than just the lone generic female character of the group. After playing Command, I am much more open to the possibility of her appearing in Brawl.

Interesting. I've still got to play Command.

I'd be delighted if they included the Miis. The model and animation rig are done already, and the animations would be quick. Of course, G&W would require even less work. He was done so well in Melee (from an æsthetic and technical standpoint, low tier issues aside).

I'm not a programer, so I don't know for certian how long G&W would take to reprogram into the game. But I do think that time would be better served including more new characters in Brawl.

You know, of those options, the Diddy/Dixie combination would be most like the ICs, in that the characters could/would play identically to each other, whereas the Pikmin would behave differently from Olimar, and I presume Wolf Link/Midna would play more like a single character than different characters working together. I think Olimar (w/ Pikmin) has a great shot, so Olimar's gameplay would have similarities to the ICs, so it wouldn't be too significant of a loss if the ICs were gone, but I would prefer that the ICs return regardless.

Diddy/ Dixie would be like the ICs - which is kind of the problem. Diddy has proved himself to be a capable warrior in the DKC games, so when Dixie is KO'd and he becomes as weak as half a character, it's going to be disgraceful to see him be so overpowered by a character like Pikachu.

Diddy solo is the way to go.

Or is he less likely because Konami already has one rep and the team wants to include reps from other series? I guess we won't know that until we know the whole Brawl roster.

Indeed.

A caveat is that the Metal Gear games originated on a Nintendo system, making its relation to Nintendo a significant one even if the series' biggest games are on the PS2. KH:CoM was just an insignificant spinoff game. Of course, I wouldn't believe you if you said Snake would be in Brawl if he wasn't already announced. If Square Enix begged Nintendo, then Sora would make it in, but I doubt SE would ever do that, and I think that is the only way Sora would ever make it into a SSB game without him appearing in more significant KH games on Nintendo consoles.

I find it strange that you're such a proponent of including not only a character from a game you haven't played, but he's from a game you don't even want to play and he's admittedly little more than "Not Impossible" to be included.

As Mendex pointed out, Metal gear originated on another system and was ported to the NES. So, my analogy fits.

If Square did get to choose one of their characters to be in Brawl, don't you think they would choose Sora?

I feel that way more about Assault than Adventures. I did enjoy Adventures, but Assault was regrettably bad. Assault has so many technical flaws on its own (horrid controls with lackluster support for customizing them, bad voice acting and writing, a lame invading enemy force out of nowhere for no reason plot, lack of variety in mission objectives such as destroy X hatchers over and over, generic on-foot combat), but compared to the phenomenal SF64, it was even worse (no branching missions, flight is way too slow and unfulfilling, actual flight combat was lacking, Landmaster is awful, arbitrary changes in character personality [Case in point: Pigma. Go back and play 64 and you will notice that he does not at all act like he does in Assault. In 64, he was the sly traitor that killed Fox's father and continues to taunt both Fox and Peppy. He wasn't a fat, bumbling pig. In addition, Slippy wasn't as annoying, Falco was able to save Fox on more than a few occasions, and Andrew wasn't quite as lame.], and I could go on and on). I shudder to think about Wolf included with a moveset based on Assault. Anyways, most reviews rate Assault as mediocre, so I would rather the SSBB team focus on the more popular, better-rated entries in the series.

Personlly, I rather enjoyed Assault (cheesy storyline, iffy land controls and all) becuase it for all it's faults, it still has that feel that is destinctly Starfox. I like Assault and Command for different reasons, but I would rank them both as fun, solid games. Still, neither comapre to SF64.

The Starfox games are very aware of the previous games in the series. They all take place chronologically, with characters coming and going, the team changing, disbanding, and reforming, and events in previous games are recalled in the later games.

We agree completely on that front, Arteen.

I do agree with your take on Bowser's Castle, but that underground tune you're thinking of? Not in the castles, just in (most of) the pipes. Luigi's Mansion is a no-brainer...I think it was a battle stage in Double Dash!! if I'm thinking straight. Warp Stone? BUT HE'S SCOTTISH!!

"AINT NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING SCOTTISH, YA CHEESEEATING SURRENDER MONKEY!!!"

I'll make the neccessary correction to my Bowser castle comments.

Also, I apologize on the whole Command/Assault thing. I should have read your post more carefully...

Zelda never had such generic puzzles or boring enemies, though.

Adventures isn't perfect (like TP, for example) so you have the occasional boring enemy or puzzle. But on the whole, the game a very well done Zelda clone.

Because I loved SF64, and going in, I expected some space-shooting action. I got a little, but what was there was pathetic and badly-placed. The whole time my experience was marred by a little voice in my head asking "why isn't Fox in a spaceship shooting down enemy squadrons? Why is this intergalactic mercenary wasting his time picking mushrooms!?"

Maybe that's the problem. I played Adventures a year or two after it came out, so I knew what I was getting into. Perhaps that was why I was able to appreciate it for what it is: a fine Zelda-style adventure with a Starfox skin.

Hmm...I'm not toally against Wolf Link after seeing Ferro's moveset, but I'm still partial to the freedom solo Midna would have in her moveset possibilities.

Fair enough. Either would wok well. I just happen to be a huge Wolf Link fan, so that's what put me over the edge.

...Which took away the only advantage Wolf Link has in combat: his speed. And by the Snowpeak Ruins, most enemies you fight are immune to it anyway.

Again, it was only a slight advantage (in certain circumstances). The real reason I played as the Wolf so often was I found his attacks to be more fun, plain and simple. It's not like most enemies in that game posed much of a threat, anyway.

Really? Despite it being my first DS game, since it came with my DS, I rarely play it anymore, and when I do, I'm not motivated enough to do anything. I'd side with EGM and slap a big ol' 5 on it.

From what little I've played of my sister's copy, it is an impressive accomplishment though.

To be honest, I'm not qualified to give a real review score. I just didn't want to sound like I was knocking the game...

Okay, let me rephrase that: "the series aren't dependent on their chronology, like something like the Xenosaga games or the Half-Life games are".

Again, I disagree. You may not care about the chronology, but it exists nevertheless. And a game like Adventures, which is very influential in the SF timeline, can't be discounted as a "non-starfox game" just becuase it's more of an adventure game than a shooter. Adventures is, like it or not, as much a Strfox game as Assault - warts and all.

No, it isn't. It's a "Mario RPG". The only real "Mario games" are the platformers, and the only real "Zelda games" are the top-down or 3D adventures, and the only real "Metroid games" are the ones that aren't pinball games (awesome as Prime Pinball was...).

So, since Super Paper Mario is a platformer it's a real Mario game - but the Mario and Luigi games arent? Is Zelda II not a Zelda game becuase it's an action RPG and not an adventure game? Is Metroid Prime not a Metroid game becuase it's a FPS/Adventure game and not a sidescroller? To be honest Mendez, I think your rules of what constitutes a "real" game are abitrary and meaningless at best.

My take? If the game actually takes place in the game's "universe", then it's cannon and therefore a "real" entry in the series and not a spin off.

Metoroid Pin ball, for example, is a spinn off because it doesn't have a story that takes place in the Metoid-verse, not becuase it is a different gameplay-wise. Adventure's story takes place in the SF-verse so it is a real game - even though it is different gameplay-wise. Kapeesh?

Hee hee, do not fear, for I am allowed to steal the words, because you see...

I AM THE TINGLE!!

On a related note, the Tingle RPG, now called "Freshly Picked: Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland" has been confirmed as a EU release. With this, I can finlly play what is already THE BEST GAME OF ALL TIME.

So the truth comes out! No wonder you want Tingle in Brawl so badly....

If Tingle DS isn't the greatest game ever, it will probably be the craziest. I suspect the real reason this won't come to North America is becuase out frangile minds couldn't handle it.

A can of worms, this topic is. If it's a one-way switch, then no one will use Samus competitively. At the very least, there must be an option (unlockable or no) to play as Zamus or Samus exsclusively.

100% agreed.

Yeah, ceriously. Where's the Black Mage love?

Well, I might consider putting said character if my runnerup list if some skilled individual were to post an appropriatly awesome moveset...

Like Command (and not Adventures)!

But seriously, we've already seen an Assault-inspired stage (Lylat Cruise), so apparently Sakurai hasn't completely written off the game, flawed as it was.

And thank goodness for that. Lylatt Cruise is the most impressive stage I've seen thus far.

Tell that to Command. 9 different endings each telling the most ludicrous tales (

Spoiler

G-ZERO? Krystal in StarWolf? Slippy dead?

)...I pity the team chosen to make the next chronological StarFox.

Anyway, my point is that the SF games, just like the Zelda titles, don't present their storylines as the primary (or even secondary) reasons for playing. They're more of a little something extra for hardcore fans to enjoy.

It's a rare case where the story is the primary reason for playing. More often than not, gameplay trumps all. But the stories do exist, never the less.

It's worth noting that Prince of Persia 3 picked up after the secret ending in PoP: WW - completely confusing most players. SF6 will likely choose one of the Command ebdings and run with it.

This is a mixture of what I would like to see and what I think could happen.

Mario Series (7)

01) Mario
02) Luigi
03) Bowser
04) Jr. Bowser/Shadow Mario
05) Princess Peach
06) Petey Piranha
07) Paper Mario

Zelda Series (5)

08) Link
09) Young Link *Wind Waker
10) Zelda *No Sheik
11) Ganondorf *Sword from TP
12) Wolf Link & Midna

Pokemon Series (5)

13) Pikachu
14) Jigglypuff
15) Mewtwo
16) Blaziken
17) Lucario

Donkey Kong Series (2)

18) Donkey Kong
19) Diddy & Dixie Kong

Metroid Series (2)

20) Samus/Zero Suit
21) Ridley

Kirby Series (3)

22) Kirby
23) Meta-Knight
24) Dedede

Star Fox Series (3)

25) Fox
26) Falco
27) Krystal

Fire Emblem Series (3)

28) Ike
29) Ephraim
30) Lyn

Other (8)

31) Yoshi
32) Wario
33) Ness
34) Captain Falcon
35) Ice Climbers
36) Pit
37) Captain Olimar
38) Mii

3rd-Party (2)

39) Snake
40) Sonic

Btw, I'm new here, first post lol

Welcome to Smashboards, axi0n.

I disagree with a few things, but if you read my 1st post, you already know where I stand. I can live with most of your predictions (even the FE lineup - though I don't see and GBA FE characters as very likely given how poorly recieved those games were in Japan) except for Diddy/Dixie. It would be the eqivilant of having Donkey/Diddy, which doesn't sit right with me. Diddy deserves a spot on the roster all on his own, he doesn't need a partner when he has a jetpack.

All things considered, 7.5/10. Good job.

Yeah, it's gone now (well, covered up but at least it's not in your face anymore >_>).

Still no word on GoD's international release, though that gives me time to play through PoR again, and focus on units that I plan to use in the next game.

Good to know.

Also, that sounds like a good idea about replaying PoR. I may do that at some point as well before GoD consumes my free time this fall.

Axion - I disagree!

Mario series: (5)
Mario
Luigi (Still a Mario Clone)
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario

Zelda series: (5)
Link
TP Zelda
TP Ganondorf
Wolf Link/Midna
Skull Kid

Pokémon series: (4)
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Lucario
Suduwoodo (hey, everyone can have a suprise character. This is mine =P)

Donkey Kong series: (2)
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong

Kirby series: (3)
Kirby
DeDeDe
Metaknight

Fire Emblem series: (3)
Marth
Ike
Black Knight

Metroid series: (4)
Samus
Zero Suit Samus (yes, I think they're different characters)
Ridley
Dark Samus (Samus Clone)

F-Zero series: (2)
Captain Falcon
Black Shadow (Captain Falcon Clone)

Star Fox series: (3)
Fox McCloud
Wolf O' Donnell
Krystal

Other series: (8)
Wario
Pit
Balloon Fighter
Yoshi
Ness
Stafy (a Japanese series, maybe another try to raise popularity in America?)
Captain Olimar
Mii's

Third Party: (3)
Snake
Sonic
Mega Man

39 original characters and 3 clones, 42 characters in total.

Wow. We're getting alot of new people every day since the updates started, it seems. Welcome to Smashboards.

The thought of Black Shadow appearing over Goroh makes me cringe, but other than that I would actualy be quite happy if this one were the actual roster. I'd give you an 8/10, but techinally a transformation like Shadow Mario counts as another character (assuming they have their own moveset) so I have to bump you down to 7/10 for going over the 40 character limit. Sorry, but those are the rules.

Gray Fox would most likely be a cameo in the Shadow Moses stage. Can't seem him as a character. I'd rather see other Third-parties.

Heck, I could live with that. Gray Fox would make a fine stage hazzard. Any idea how that would work?

Thanks Wisey. It's good to be back. I left midway between our Dx3 discussion. Have you changed your opinion yet?

Semi. I've been giving it some thought, and I could see how it might be simpler just to give him his own hammer-based moveset. I'll get back to you on that.

Nothing wrong with your third-party suggestions. A great first post, welcome to the Smash boards! I'll give your 'Brawl prediction... 6/10. There are improvements needed in a few areas, but it's an amazing effort and imaginative.

It's strange how everyone thinks it is disappointing, but Super Paper Mario received better scores all-around than any other game in the series, averaging between a 9.0 and 9.5 out of 10.

I rather enjoyed the game. It's the best single player Wii game aside from TP. 8.5/10 is what I would give it.

You might want to consider re-phrasing that again, unless I'm misunderstanding you. If I am, I apologize. Windwaker is very dependent on the events that occured in Ocarina of Time. Without the Hero of Time from the first, the Link in Windwaker would have never been.

IE: The Link in OoT was the reason that the kids on his island had to dress up as him as they came of age. He's also the reason why the Master Sword was hidden away from Gannondorf's reach.

You have to admit Mendez, he has a point

^^^ More or less true, on the WW part.

And Super Paper Mario was great! Bowser FTW.

Bowser rocks in SPM. When will he get his own game, I wonder?

This is the greatest thread ever. I really enjoy reading this stuff.

Smooth Criminal

Thanks, Smooth Criminal. That means alot.

I'd buy Super Paper Mario if Nintendo decided to get off their fat ***** and bring it to Europe. Apart from the new DragonBall Z game I've not played anything on the Wii.

Since I assume you've already played TP and Wii Sports, I recomend you rent Wario Ware, Rayman and Excite Truck to pass the time. You could also get a Wii points card if your into Retro games...

 

[Smady]

Well, the most popular characters, I expect, will get the most attention. As with 'Melee. Marth, Peach, Zelda etcetera were all payed close attention to. It's more about making the fans happy than saving time for other parts of the game.

 

[axi0n]

Not so sure about Petey Pirahna...he hasn't really made much of a splash, y'know? Other than that, this part's fine.

Yeah, I'm a little iffy about Petey too, but I decided to go with him because I think he could
have a unique move set, plus hes been in more games then all of the other mario bosses (besides Bowser oviously) Oh well, at the very least I hope he appears in stage.

The only bones to pick here are Mewtwo and Blaziken. Uh...see Wiseguy's write-up on Mewtwo on the first post for that. Blaziken's problem is that it's a starter, and up til' now, we haven't seen any starter Pokemon be anything but either pokeball Pokemon, or lower than that (a Totodile trophy). Also, Blaziken has little or no importance in the anime and movies.

I know what you mean about Mewtwo, I guess he could always be replaced by Deoxys,
and its true that Blaziken is a starter but up until now no other starters have really been Smash Bros material. (Besides Infernape) and yeah he hasn't had any importance but thats all the more reason to give him a shot. Its Blazikens time to shine!

Diddy and Dixie NOT for the win. The team idea has already been covered, and, while neat in some respects, didn't really pan out all that well. Plus, Diddy's way cooler than Dixie.

I don't see why everyone is so against this. They could have a way better move set as a team, and for some reason Diddy just doesnt feel complete without a partner. But thats just me.

This is actually the most likely situation, but Dark Samus might fit in there as a clone.

I cant see them having Dark Samus as its own character but Samus should definately get Dark Samus as a costume.

If not Falco, Wolf. Either way, this is what I think will happen. Personally, I desire Andross, but...

Same thing, I think at the most Wolf will be a costume for Fox.

Ephraim (despite being cool and lance-wielding) starred in one of the least popular games in the franchise, and apparently Lyn isn't liked by the Japanese (stupid Japanese). I personally would have no problem with this set-up, but it's not very likely.

Yeah, thats the reason I added Ephraim, spears ftw! But I doubt it will happen. I'm alittle iffy on my Fire Emblem choices, cause theres so many worthy candidates but I can't see them adding more then 3 Fire Emblem characters. But they have to have Lyn!

Ice Climbers? There probably won't be two team characters (your suggested Diddy/Dixie pair), and the Ice Climbers need to make room for fresher retro (oxymoron!) characters, like Mach Rider or Balloon Fighter.

Yeah I never really cared much for them in the first place xD
Cant see Mach Rider in though. Unless he would be a Captain Falcon clone.

No Simon? Tsk tsk tsk...

I've never played a Castlevania game, thats why.

Overall, it's a fine list.

Personally: 8/10
Realistically: 6.5/10

And don't be a stranger; the moar the merrier here at Mendez's Wiseguy's thread!

Thanks

Okay... Paper Mario? No. We don't need another Dr.Mario-esque clone of Mario, there is little to differentiate Mario from Paper Mario apart from the style, which could be represented by a stage. Petey Pirahna is way too obscure and doesn't deserve a spot, moreover. Although I respect your use of the more origional characters, they're not important enough.

I wasnt thinking of him as a clone. He would have his own unique moves. for A attacks he could have his hammer, for B^ He could turn into a paper air plane that the player controls for a couple second. B> He could roll up like he does in Thousand Year Door for a roll out attack like Jigglypuff does.

I also am not sure about the transformation for Bowser Jr. to Shadow Mario. Two Mario clones? Eh... No. I don't like the idea of three Marios, which is what your roster here would produce.

If Paper Mario is not a clone it would only be 1 clone. But still 3 Mario's. Oh well, as long as they have Jr. :D

No real problems here, although it's fifty/fifty for me whether Midna will be alone or riding Wolf Link.

Same problem. Both could work, dont know what I want more. Decided to go with Wolf Link though.

Blaziken - no. Everything else is fine. Blaziken can easily be reprimanded by a simple Pokemon appearance.

Another Blaziken hater. D;
I cant part with Blaziken on my list. but at the very least he better be in a pokeball.

I'd rather have K. Rool with the exclusion of Paper Mario/Petey Pirahna. The whole Diddy/Dixie tag team idea has been said before. I hate the idea, it would suck. Diddy doesn't need Dixie to have a respectable moveset.

Its true Diddy could have a respectable moveset on his own but I think he would be funner to play as a team with Dixie.

Again, no real arguments. I'd rather have Wolf than Krystal/Falco, though. I'd rather have Fox/Wolf/Falco to be precise.

I cant see them adding more then 3 star fox character, and Krystal is almost a for sure thing in my mind anyway. Wolf could be a costume for Fox.

No. Way. They won't get rid of Marth and Roy. Roy I think will go, but you can't employ an entirely new FE team. That's just harsh. I believe it'll be Marth, Ike and maybe Black Knight as a villain representative.

I need to rethink my FE list. But I dont think they would have 2 blue haired characters that look the same. (Then again they had Pikachu and Pichu) -.-

Ice Climbers and Mii... Nah. Ice Climbers are pretty much definitely gone. They have no use in the generation we're in, and their surprise has been short-lived. They're also really annoying. Throw Balloon Fighter in in their place.

I agree Ice Climbers suck, I'll be taking them off my list but Mii's would be so cool!

Nothing wrong with your third-party suggestions. A great first post, welcome to the Smash boards! I'll give your 'Brawl prediction... 6/10. There are improvements needed in a few areas, but it's an amazing effort and imaginative.

Thanks for the rate. I'll be making some changes to the list. xD

Welcome to Smashboards, axi0n.

I disagree with a few things, but if you read my 1st post, you already know where I stand. I can live with most of your predictions (even the FE lineup - though I don't see and GBA FE characters as very likely given how poorly recieved those games were in Japan) except for Diddy/Dixie. It would be the eqivilant of having Donkey/Diddy, which doesn't sit right with me. Diddy deserves a spot on the roster all on his own, he doesn't need a partner when he has a jetpack.

All things considered, 7.5/10. Good job.

Thanks, glad to be here xD

I never played Donkey Kong 64 so I dont know what Diddy is capable of on his own. I still think he would be better on a team. >.<;

Whew... well all that only took an hour. How do you do it Wiseguy?

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

Hmm...I'm not toally against Wolf Link after seeing Ferro's moveset, but I'm still partial to the freedom solo Midna would have in her moveset possibilities.

And I've never been against the idea of Solo Midna. I just find the Wolf Link/Midna is a better choice. Reguardless of which one of the two makes it, I intend on maining with her.

Which took away the only advantage Wolf Link has in combat: his speed. And by the Snowpeak Ruins, most enemies you fight are immune to it anyway.

Yes, it took his speed away, but it gave him something in return; a guaranteed KO move.

Actually, it was just the ice-themed enemies that were immune to it.

 

[Phaazoid]

Nice list... But there are a few problems.

For one, you're including Skull Kid over Midna. As much as I love Skull Kid and want him in, he won't be in over Midna. Midna has the best chance of any new Zelda character. I wouldn't be surprised if she were the only real new character and the rest were revised models. But if Midna's in too Skull Kid would definitely stand a chance against the throw-aways like Zant and Vaati. (He won like 90-20 at the IGN poll.)

ok. i don't like the idea of midna, who only recently starred in one new game and annoyed the hell out of me as i played it. if midna is in brawl, i will only let level one computers be her so i can beat her down. and in like skull kid better than tingle.

You're also including Zelda/Sheik. I don't see that happening. Sheik will likely be abandoned and Zamus/Zero-Suit Samus will take her moveset. I see Zelda using her Twilight Princess rapiers and a moveset derived from her appearance in that game.

i interpreted sakurai saying "not all of melee's cast will return" as saying i am removing the clones. thats just me. good bye doc, yl, and pichu, and either marth or roy, but marth seems more popular, though i like roy more. so that means no cutting ic, G@W (who i like anyways), and shiek(puts up flame retardant shield) who i also like. i can see zelda being TP form, but they might also remake shiek, and have her/him/it separate.

Game&Watch... Eh... He's a surprise character - but would he be a surprise in his second game? I think his place would be better suited for another Nintendo character like Bowser Jr w/Paintbrush or even Krystal. They aren't surprises, but they're needed to even out the roster with different kinds of characters. And I think if the Miis are in, they'll take G&W's place as the "surprise" character.

G@W was awesome and will be forever. i hate bowser jr, thats just me, and i didn't include krystal over wolf, because i like wolf better, though i think both will be in brawl. and mii's have been thought of, so they wouldn't be a surprise now, would they?

If you amend those things it'll be a higher score, but I personally like the idea of villains > females, but detest the idea of "classics" > recents. Wouldn't everyone prefer Bowser Jr. and Krystal over G&W and ICs? They're exciting and new! The Mii's also pretty bleh. A boring character idea. Their Super Smash attack would likely be a Mii Parade of fake Hitlers and Steve Irwins. What a sickening thought... I never liked that thing, it's more of a feature than a character.

no, i hate Bowser jr. G@W is awesome. krystal does>ic though. but this is what i thought would be realistic, and if i wasn't consistent, it would ruin it. if this had been a wishlist, you would have seen charizard, bass, and bomberman. as for the idea of miis. i think we just disagree here. i think miis would be an clever way to include a customizable character. if you were given the chance, would you whoop george dubya with chuck norris?

I'll give your list... 6.5/10

gee, thanks

originally quoted by wiseguy:"8/10"
yay, best rating yet.

 

[Smady]

I wasnt thinking of him as a clone. He would have his own unique moves. for A attacks he could have his hammer, for B^ He could turn into a paper air plane that the player controls for a couple second. B> He could roll up like he does in Thousand Year Door for a roll out attack like Jigglypuff does.

Meh... I'm still not convinced. As I said before, it's an imaginative idea, but it's iffy. Paper Mario's a 2D Mario. Nice ideas, though.

If Paper Mario is not a clone it would only be 1 clone. But still 3 Mario's. Oh well, as long as they have Jr. :D

Ya... Three Marios...

Same problem. Both could work, dont know what I want more. Decided to go with Wolf Link though.

Another Blaziken hater. D;
I cant part with Blaziken on my list. but at the very least he better be in a pokeball.

Fair enough.

Its true Diddy could have a respectable moveset on his own but I think he would be funner to play as a team with Dixie

I hate the Ice Climbers too much. A Diddy/Dixie team would bring back bad memories... Bad memories... It'd be like throwing the garbage out the window then going out the front door and bringing it back in.

I cant see them adding more then 3 star fox character, and Krystal is almost a for sure thing in my mind anyway. Wolf could be a costume for Fox.

But I like Wolf, Falco and Krystal... Essentially they only have to luigify for Wolf and create a staff-based moveset for Krystal. That's not so hard, in my opinion, when you have three strong characters all deserving in.

I need to rethink my FE list. But I dont think they would have 2 blue haired characters that look the same. (Then again they had Pikachu and Pichu) -.-

Ya, indeed, Pikachu and Pichu... Blue-hairedness is a sort of... Staple of the FE main characters, I gather, so a couple of blues won't hurt anyone. If anything, it gives Fire Emblem the identity that it should.

I agree Ice Climbers suck, I'll be taking them off my list but Mii's would be so cool!

Good, good. The Ice Climbers are horrible. I don't mind the Miis too much as an idea. I hate them as a feature, never use them, they're annoying. I don't want them in 'Brawl because of that - but it could be an appearance that changes my opinion of them. I dunno...

Thanks for the rate. I'll be making some changes to the list. xD

I was being extra harsh. Change some things and you'll easily et like 9.5.

ok. i don't like the idea of midna, who only recently starred in one new game and annoyed the hell out of me as i played it. if midna is in brawl, i will only let level one computers be her so i can beat her down. and in like skull kid better than tingle.

Well... She's popular. I don't particularly like her too much either, but she's a good pick. If anyone's in it's her. A recent appearance, a mildly good potential moveset and a very intriguing design... Sorry. I like Skull Kid too. Tingle can suck my balls.

i interpreted sakurai saying "not all of melee's cast will return" as saying i am removing the clones. thats just me. good bye doc, yl, and pichu, and either marth or roy, but marth seems more popular, though i like roy more. so that means no cutting ic, G@W (who i like anyways), and shiek(puts up flame retardant shield) who i also like. i can see zelda being TP form, but they might also remake shiek, and have her/him/it separate.

If they cut clones, why would they cut either Marth or Roy? They're not clones of each other, they come in the same game.

But I see what you mean. However, Roy, said by Sakurai himself, was put in to promote the new FE game. Meaning he's more likely to have been cloned off Marth. Oh well.

It's just the moveset that is unique to Smash, though, and that can be given to a new character. Sheik can be seen on a stage or something.

G@W was awesome and will be forever. i hate bowser jr, thats just me, and i didn't include krystal over wolf, because i like wolf better, though i think both will be in brawl. and mii's have been thought of, so they wouldn't be a surprise now, would they?

G&W was mostly for surprise, though, as his moveset is the most randomised. A surprise character only really gets one shot. I feel he's served his purpose. I agree on Wolf, he rocks, but either both will get in, neither will or Krystal will get in alone in my opinion. As much as I want Wolf (look at my signature) I know his place. Krystal's one of the main squadron and her whacky 'Adventure staff would undoubtedly be useful. Meh, Mii. I'm impartial on that really.

no, i hate Bowser jr. G@W is awesome. krystal does>ic though. but this is what i thought would be realistic, and if i wasn't consistent, it would ruin it. if this had been a wishlist, you would have seen charizard, bass, and bomberman. as for the idea of miis. i think we just disagree here. i think miis would be an clever way to include a customizable character. if you were given the chance, would you whoop george dubya with chuck norris?

But Bowser Jr.'s a recent character and one of only like three good Mario characters that can be put in. I also suspect whoever's the main villain of Super Mario Galaxy will get priority, which I see Bowser Jr. snatching as he did for New Super Mario Bros. and Mario Sunshine. So, with the new Delfino Plaza stage and an emphasis on Mario characters in 'Galaxy, if Bowser Jr.'s in 'Galaxy we kind of need him. As far as Miis go I don't care that much to be honest. They're sort of... Eh... After discussing them. They would surprise everyone else - they're just a bit plain. They're not characters, they're *******.

gee, thanks

originally quoted by wiseguy:"8/10"
yay, best rating yet.

I was being as harsh as possible. But if you improve your list it'll easily get a ten.

Long post. Wow. 'Feels good to be back.

 

[Wiseguy]

Well, the most popular characters, I expect, will get the most attention. As with 'Melee. Marth, Peach, Zelda etcetera were all payed close attention to. It's more about making the fans happy than saving time for other parts of the game.

I have better idea. Rather than focusing their efforts on five characters, why not try and make ALL the characters in the game balanced and fun to play?

I need to rethink my FE list. But I dont think they would have 2 blue haired characters that look the same. (Then again they had Pikachu and Pichu) -.-

You are correct that Marth and Ike clash in terms of appearance and fighting type. FE games have a huge and diverse cast of characters, so there is simply no excuse for having two of the FE reps in Brawl be so similar. Might I recomend the Black Knight and/or Miciaiah?

I agree Ice Climbers suck, I'll be taking them off my list but Mii's would be so cool!

Indeed they would. Smash Daddy is usually right, but for some reason the appeal of Miis are lost on him. But I'll bet that once Miis make their glorious debute in Brawl, we'll see him competing over Wi-fi with a Chewbacca Mii or something.

Thanks, glad to be here xD

I never played Donkey Kong 64 so I dont know what Diddy is capable of on his own. I still think he would be better on a team. >.<;

Well, if you haven't played DK64, I can understand why you might think that. But in that game, Diddy was a force to be reconed with. Not only did he have a jetpack (which he also weilded in Mario Tennis) but he also had weapons ranging from dual peanut pistols, orange grenades and a super attack that consisted of him whipping out his trusty electric guitar and destroyed foes with sound waves. Not to mention he iconic cartwheel attack and tailwhip attacks.

Really, I can't see the apeal of pairing him with Dixie. What kind of moveset did you have in mind for the duo?

Whew... well all that only took an hour. How do you do it Wiseguy?

Easy: I have WAAAAAAAAY too much free time.

And I've never been against the idea of Solo Midna. I just find the Wolf Link/Midna is a better choice. Reguardless of which one of the two makes it, I intend on maining with her.

Agreed. Midna in any of her forms would make a great addition to the roster.

ok. i don't like the idea of midna, who only recently starred in one new game and annoyed the hell out of me as i played it. if midna is in brawl, i will only let level one computers be her so i can beat her down. and in like skull kid better than tingle.

Let me get this straight: you don't think Midna deserves becuase she only starred in a single game, yet Sheik who played a minor supporting role in a single game deserves to return? Sounds like a double standard to me.

Long post. Wow. 'Feels good to be back.

Great to have you back, SD.

 

[axi0n]

You are correct that Marth and Ike clash in terms of appearance and fighting type. FE games have a huge and diverse cast of characters, so there is simply no excuse for having two of the FE reps in Brawl be so similar. Might I recomend the Black Knight and/or Miciaiah?

Yeah I don't really like the idea of having both Ike and Marth in. Alittle iffy on the other 2 I can't see them having Black Knight without Ike and I don't really know much about Miciaiah. If they have a girl I want it to be Lyn.

Indeed they would. Smash Daddy is usually right, but for some reason the appeal of Miis are lost on him. But I'll bet that once Miis make their glorious debute in Brawl, we'll see him competing over Wi-fi with a Chewbacca Mii or something.

I don't know how any one can not like the idea. If you like Mii's you should like the idea. If you don't like Mii's you should still like the idea because you get to beat them up
At the very least they should make them the new wire frames. D<

Well, if you haven't played DK64, I can understand why you might think that. But in that game, Diddy was a force to be reconed with. Not only did he have a jetpack (which he also weilded in Mario Tennis) but he also had weapons ranging from dual peanut pistols, orange grenades and a super attack that consisted of him whipping out his trusty electric guitar and destroyed foes with sound waves. Not to mention he iconic cartwheel attack and tailwhip attacks.

Well he sounds pretty powerful. If Its who I predict will be in I will say Diddy solo. If Its my personal choice I would pick the Diddy & Dixie duo.

Really, I can't see the apeal of pairing him with Dixie. What kind of moveset did you have in mind for the duo?

I've thought of a couple moves for them and seen some move sets around the site.
One move would be a switching move where they slap hands and switch places. Like they can do in the game. The iconic cartweel of course. Maybe as an ^B attack it would be similar to DK's' spinning kong attack where Dixie spins with her hair. Dixie could also throw Diddy with her hair as she does in the game.

Another move I just thought of could be where if the one your not controlling dies after a fixed amount of time goes by they reapear on the stage in a barrel like they do when one dies in the game. Dunno, I'm alittle iffy about it. Just thought I'd mention it anyway.

Easy: I have WAAAAAAAAY too much free time.

lol, I guess I can relate. xD
*Has been on the com pretty much all day*

 

[Smady]

I have better idea. Rather than focusing their efforts on five characters, why not try and make ALL the characters in the game balanced and fun to play?

Let's go a step further. Everyone's a Fox clone. A perfect balance. You have Bowser short-hopping his laser and using a flaming shine, Peach saying "show me your moves" and Marth growing Fox's ears. No tiers, no fighting, just peace. That way - every character we want only may need a model to be in. We could have thousands upon thousands of balanced characters!

What I mean by that little rant is that balanaced and fun to play may not slot in together. I consider the game's best potential to be if it allows Metaknight, Wario, Dx3, Black Knight and Ike all to have their own personal moveset and tint. As much as I respect your love of clones and their usefulness in preserving time, that time is truly best to be spent on characters. We are, after all, tlaking in a "Character Discussion" forum right at this moment. People want characters, and characters that are original.

Things will be fine if things turn out like they did with 'Melee. The characters at the end of the list will be clones because there is little time to implement them, then if there is a next game they'll improve upon them and add a new set of clones.

Great to have you back, STD.

But, yeah, it is good to be back. Thanks for the warm welcome.

 

[Johnknight1]

The weapons in PD were soooo unbeleiveably fun. The slayer and the laptop gun in particular were enough to strike far into the heart of the most skilled of players.

Perfect Dark was awsome, as was Goldeneye 007. Along with Half-Life and Doom, they make up the best FPS of the genre. All 4 are some of the greatest games of all time.

Good ideas, both. Phendrana was perhaps my favoriteenviornment in Prime 1.

Drifts was awsome=soo many sick enemies, space pirate holds, etc. That area was a straight up battlefield.

It's comforting to know I'm not the only one who feels that way. Melee is a great game and all, but isn't it time for a new Smash Bros?

Melee was a inhanced SSB, with it's own new awsome system. I expect around half the improvements from SSB64 to SSBM in SSBM to SSBB, but generally, it'll be the same as a upgrade, revamp, remade, and recreated brilliance!

Poor Ness. Let's hope we see him restored to his former glory for Brawl.

I know a few good Ness' who are pretty good. Plus the people on the Ness Melee section are all super-pros=no n00bs. It's a experienced player haven (or heaven, minus the glowy lights!). That might be the most helpful character specific area=way better than the Link section. Generally only people with tons of skill play Ness (other than me) because he is one of the harder to use characters.

That might be true, for all I know. This is all, of course, only speculation. But I still think that time would b better served creating a new character addition - but that's just me.

I bet it's running on either Melee's server, another past server, or a new one. But I think it is Melee's server. By the way, in Melee did they use the same server as in SSB64 (I'm pretty sure not, but correct me if I'm wrong)=??? If it is using Melee's server (with the obvious graphic and gameplay updates), then not as many character removals are necissary, and many more characters will make it. We all win, and whether this is true or not effects the roster quite a bit.

Wow, that would be pretty awesome. Maybe I'll inlcude that in a future update.

@ Drascin
Why haven't I seen that AWSOME idea in the stage discussion thread=???

By the way Wiseguy, it looks like Sakurai stole my MP3: Corrupion stage idea (total mayhem fight on ships like Star Destroyers in a intense moving battle), and made it into the Lylat Cruise. Better draw them out before he steals my stage ideas...AGAIN!

O well, Delfino Plaza and that MP3: Corruption Battle Scene probably were my best ideas, along with that WW course idea, and that Super Mario Galaxy stages. In which in my SMG stage you fight on planetoids (the asteroids with houses and stuff like that), asteroids, with bullet bills and stuff all over. Pretty much sorta like my MP3 idea and Rainbow Cruise combined, but with SPG stuff of course.

WAH HA HA HA HA HA HA!

Sleep tight Drascin.

"Tingle Lingle Loo Limpa!"

Don't remind me of my fear of hieghts...too late!

I'm with you there. I love just about all the different suits - though I have a special affinity for Prime 2's Dark Suit, for some reason.

I say Samus should have at least her normal suit, fusion suit (my fav), varia suit, light suit, dark suit, and gravity suit. Did I mention I believe that in Brawl every character should have AT LEAST 6 OUTFITS=I guess I did now. Maybe a max of 8, since 10 seems a bit too high, as well as unreasonable.

Since I am completely unfamiliar with the series, I'm going to stay out of this particular debate.

My stance: whatever makes the most MM fans happy is fine with me, but I'd prefer that they choose a moveset that is as different from Samus as possible.

Fact: Us MM diehardfans (I'm only one with 3 of the MM series) want several outfits for MM. Overall we want several outfits, and any choosen would be great. Honestly, the awsomely amazing outfits outweigh the horrid ones (are there any bad ones=???). So no matter what we'll be getting awsome outfits. Heck, with all the variations of MMs and MM outfits, MM will probably have the coolest alternate outfits out of every character.

Yeah, most of the Symphonia cast would make great Brawl additions.

HEAR THAT SAKURAI?!?!? IT'S NOT TOO LATE! INCLUDE SYMPHONIA CHARACTERS IN BRAWL!!!

LLoyd Irvington ftw, Lloyd Irvington for BRAWL! That game had a ton of depth, and is one of the best modern RPG's out there, easily.

Great idea. Also, the day after Brawl, look for "Prepare to be Asounded and Amazed - AGAIN! Wiseguy's SSB4 Predictions"

We'll all be looking ou for that. Maybe I'll beat you to it, and make "Prepare to be Amazed and Astonished-AGAIN! Johnknight1's character predictions for SSB4 (Total N00b Barfight Annilination!!!). :razz: After I write out my predictions, I'll write: "remeber, I totally knew the Brawl roster"=lol! I think by SSB4 the debate will be too long (other than a DS SSB game), since we'll have like 60-70 characters by then=ya. No character drops needed then, just add 20=easy enough.

By SSB4 hopefully we'll have 8 Mario characters, 5 DK characters, 7 LOZ characters, 7 Pokemon, 5 SF characters, 5 Metroid characters (room for Hunters=yae!), 5 3rd party characters (*cough* Geno and Crono), 3 Kirby (still), 3 F-Zero characters (no Black Shadow=go Goroh and anyone else), 3 Earthbound characters, and 14 other Nintendo characters. Maybe they'll run out of ideas in SSB8 and make me a character!

The job isn't choosing characters by popularity, situation, importance to their series, and value in gaming, but more of "How many spots can we make/fill"=ya. Then we'll all be happy, plus by then Nintendo will be smart enough to make the game in Super Nintendo graphics to destroy all online lag! DiE LAG, DIE! Unless of course by then the internet is a bagillion times faster, then idc as long as the lag dies like the annoying bug it is. Hopefully hackers die with LAG by then (overhopeful statement, but o well).

Anyways Wiseguy, in SSB4 it isn't choosing the wisest choices as a challenge, it's trying to think of that many characters=the real challenge.

It was not Miamoto who failed us, but you Starfox Adventures haters who are failing him.

Good game, just not as a SF game. However, it seems to be more of a leadon in the story in terms, and more of a experiment than most games. That isn't neccissaraly bad, but it was a intresting and fun game to say the least. I'm with you all the way on this Wiseguy, and the same goes for F-Zero Xand GX (minus Black Shadow=lame!).

I still say that SFA is one of the best single player games on the Cube, and definitely worthy of more repsect. Space foxes and prehistoric planets go together like peanut butter and chocolate.

And Zelda and the wiimote/numchuck functions go together like marshmellows, graham crackers, and chocolate: You can't go wrong.

To be perfectly honest I've never played Halo 2 before, but I'm not sure if the game would hold up all that well by today's standards (the N64 controller is not ideal for a FPS). Still, I agree that PD, for it's time, was more revolutionary thatn Halo - which just perfected the formual that already existed (from what I understand).

Man, what I wouldn't give for a DS remake of PD...

Goldeneye 007=#1 selling FPS of all-time, Half-Life (1)=#2 selling FPS of all-time, and Halo 2=#3 selling FPS of all-time (PD is around 4th or 5th=I think). I think Halo 3 will top the list (it's preorders are at about Halo 2's total sales), and it's going to be a good game, regardless.

Put that aside, PD Zero was a good game, but sucked compaired to the original we all know and love. The N64 controller and a retarted president aside (me and my friends still have a joke about the president entering the UFO, running out, stopping like he dropped a nickel, and jumping while he dies from an expolosion=funniest crap ever!), and PD is perfect (dark).

If only PD Zero with the exellent 360 controlls could live up to the original or Halo 2 (in which Halo 2, Goldeneye 007, Counter-Striker, and PD are my 4 fav FPS) in terms of greatness and exellence. As for Halo 2, it is addicting, fun, and wierd when online when you and all the other 15 players in the waiting room are huming themes from tLOZ (no Microsoft fanboys there=not making this up=actual Zelda fans on Xbox Live!).

As for the DS remake/new PD (or Goldeneye 007 for that matter) I would pay $100 if it was HALF as good as the original (assuming it had online). That would be amazing exellent, and amazingly exciting to play online. I heard some people liked Goldeneye 007 so much that they remade the game using a Half-Life 2 (or the Source) server, revampt graphics, guns, and all, and added online to it. Hope there's something like that for PD=would be sick!

Interesting. Maybe this will surface at E3?

It hasn't been mentioned in a long while. Hopefully it isn't cancelled, and I wonder how a 2D Metroid online would play=??? Whether it's 2D or 3D isn't a big deal IMO. Whether it's made or not is a big deal in my view. Maybe a title change (though Dread fits the ending of Fusion perfectly)

Mendez is our resident Advance Wars advocate. He posted a good Andy moveset a few (hundred) pages back, though I'm still not convinced that a chracter who primarily wacks his opponets with a hammer would be very appealing.

King Dedede, IC, Kirby, and G&W are enough.

That same question applies to Bowser Jr. too, you know. And as for the explanation? Straight from wikipedia's King Bowser page:

"It was once revealed in Nintendo Power of the UK that Bowser's wife and the mother of the Koopalings is Clawdia, Queen of the Koopas. Clawdia has not made an appearance in any Mario games to date."

Honestly? That's kinda scary

That is pretty scary. Maybe she will apear in a future game?

Nintendo Power also stated Fox would have a lover in SF64 (forget her name), but that idea was dropped. I guess however, the idea of Krystal was picked up from it. However, the name rings a bell, and I'm not sure whether to believe it, or not to believe it. Yes, I've heard that name dozens of times, so it could very well be legit.

I'm not sure the soul selling is neccessary. WW Link is a shoe in already.

Just in case, but you can never be TOO careful. Anyways, I quit giving souls to the devil, and then starting selling souls to Davy Jones. Then I quit that, and remembered I was holding Sakurai hostage. Silly me, I can just force him to put WW Link in, OR ELSE! :razz:

Separate characters woulod be preferable, but I'm not sure if Sakurai will see it that way. Maybe in tomorrow's update, we'll find out for sure.

I'm getting closer and closer to the point where I'll make bets now that they are seperate characters. Ya, I'm that certain, and by E3 expect them to be diffrent characters. If E3 wasn't retarted this year and didn't allow the public, I'd go (since San Fransisco is like 1 hour from here). But since the last good E3 is in the past, I guess I'll never be able to go. Aww well, we'll get a Brawl trailer=heals everything.

Seriously, what would be neat is while we're waiting a online version of Melee (and SSB64, even if we already have Kaillera) is released, and we get a SSBB BETA (sorta like the Halo 3 BETA, actually exactly like that). Those alone could keep us all happy for months (or for me eons). Maybe even a BETA for online play=probably overhopeful statements, but they would be intertaining to say the least.

Honestly, if Nintendo remade they're multiplayer VC games with online (in which if you buy it, you get free online, or if you already bought it, just redownload it). That would be the equivilance of Nintendo getting 1,000 gut punchs and they were Ganondorf (warlock punch through the soul), while Sony and Microsoft would be small little Plusle and Minun. (who totally shouldn't be in Brawl!)

Sorry, but I don't thnk there is any chance of more than 4 characters permatch. The Dojo update was pretty clear. We'll just have to wait for SSB4...

Ahh well, it was worth thinking of how it would work. I'm sure it was or will be considered, but I bet in SSBB they'll have 6-8 person online multiplayer (not including the possible DS SSB game). Still, me wondering how it would work makes me wonder, I was just wondering that out of sheer curiosity. Unless there is a expansion pack (little if any chacne), or downloadable content, I doubt it will happen at all.

Pretty much all FE games have a castle scen like that, so it could be from just about any of them.

But the color and shape sticks out. considering it is such a neat design.

No way. A better title would be Prepare to be Flaberguasted and Stupidfied: Wiseguy's Brawl Stage Predictions.

I actually had one planned, but I kept putting it off. Now, I guess I'll just post all my stage ideas here, via updates.

Best title ever! (next to SSB4: Total N00b Barfight Annilanation, or Total N00b Annilination!) Ah well, this can be a multi-topic thread (if it isn't considered that already)=no big deal, unless the mods see things diffrently (but I doubt that).

Sure, it wouldn't be perfectly true to the game to clone Poo, but it makes just as much sense as giving Paula's moves to Ness.

Except most of their moves are interchangeable. Funny how basically all of the moves Paula knows that Ness doesn't know, Ness uses them in SSB. What makes more sense is Lucas being a Ness clone=the neo-Ness. Now I know you hate Japan only's Wiseguy, but I think he is a exception (along with Marth and Roy).

I mean, we get characters from series generally not liked very much in Japan (Metroid, and even to some extent Star Fox), so why not=??? The enormous cult following Earth Bound has could get Lucas in, plus we all know Lucas was suppose to relpace Ness in Melee. So I think Lucas would be a fine character addition, original or clone. Plus he'd make a good clone Wiseguy.

My bad. Roy is actually from a Japanese-only GBA game. But given how poorly the handheld FEs were recieved in Japan, I think we should stick with characters from the internationally eleased console games.

Then to heck with Hector or Sigurd, "Roy's Our Boy!"

Thanks for the history lesson, but my opinion is unchanged.

Yes, G&W and ICs were unique fighters and important reprentatives of retro games. However, I feel that their apearance in Melee effectively payed tribute to both characters, so the time necessary in programing them in Brawl should be spent instead on including new characters. That's just the way I see it. I suspect we may have to agree to disagree on this file, my friend.

The only character I can think of that can be as unique is Balloon Fight. I think the mix of super original (retro) characters with clones fits Brawl (and the rest of the series) perfectly.

I ultimately elected to list Dx3 and DS as Luigified clones, and just call WW Link a regular clone - ala Melee Young Link. But yeah, he would be more unique than Pichu, regardless.

The only less clooney clone than Pichu was Luigi and Ganondorf. Pichu had a lot of originality, especially in that retarted hurt yoursefl deal (in which if that was removed there would be 5 times as many Pichu player=200! ). So the originality with WW Link to Link would be almost exactly like Ganondorf and Capt. Falcon (minus not being in the same series).

Mario Kart DS and Wario Ware Smooth Moves were released in Japan, so they would recagnize him just as easily as North Americans, I suspect.

A vast majority of Wii owners don't have Smooth Moves (myself included), and the same goes in Japan. However, the Mario Kar DS appearance means something. But has ROB ever had his onw game=??? All the current characters in their games played the main roll as a hero,villian, or damsel of some sortin their series, or as a long lasting supporting cast member over two random appearances.

Is that really surprising, considering that he is at th very top of the tier list? Same wth Marth - most Smashers choose their characters based on how powerful they are, not on how effectively they represent their series of origin.

Ya, but you're forgetting Japanese Smashers. He was the #1 pick for Japanese gamers for Melee in 1999 by a large margin, and has had a cult following in Japan for a long time. I think it's only fair to have a few predominantly Japanese series characters (FE) and a few predoominatly Western series characters (Metroid, and to some extent SF).

Yeah, additional downloadable content would be great. Nice idea.

I should really preorder my copy of Prime 3 soon...

I stole it from the idea for Brawl you came up with wayyy back.

I need to preorder it too, I didn't even know the Hunters would make a appearance. Hopefully the downloadable content is like Substinence (where it's almost exactly like the game, but not really), but not like Substinence (where they cancel one of the biggest PS network game just to TRY to make us buy a PS3 to get it=rip off=hope it MGS goes to the 360=I'll buy that for sure).

It would be awsome if we did get to play as the Hunters from MP Hunters (preferably all of them), plus the 2 new ones, DS, basic soldiers (Federation Troops, Space Pirates, etc.), etc. Maybe like Goldeneye 007 where it's just for looks, but I'd definitely prefer the special abilitiy/weapons thing they each have currenly in Hunters.

Maybe she could say a few words ocasionally, but I hope shr maintains the cold, sombre personality that gamers have come to associate her with. I don't want Retro to turn Samus into a chatterbox...

Maybe like the take off the helmet deal at the end of each Metroid game, Samus says "Mission Complete", or something like that. Or just to report on a mission...

We just discussed this, but yeah it is intriguing. Let's hope this doesn't go the way of Duke Nukem Forever.

How did Duke Kukem Foreveer go (I've heard of that game before)=???

Halo 3 might sell more copies than Brawl (DEFINITLY more than Galaxy, sorry to say) but the Wii will almost certainly outsell the 360. Judging by the recent sales numbers, everyone who wanted to buy a 360 already has.

And yeah, the PS3 is down for the count.

Well Halo 1&2 were great games, what can you say=??? (SM Sunshine was way underrated) You know, I've been doubting Halo 3 will outsell Brawl. Melee outsold the first Halo by over 3 million units, and Halo 2 only outsold Melee by less than a million units. Since Halo 2 has online, that is a definite advantage.

If Melee had a sequal that had online it definitely could have outsold Halo 2. However, Brawl needs to have good online, have it shown off like crazy, get cult following characters (1st, 2nd, and 3rd), and just overall play good like in the past, but taken up several levels.

Anyways, if MGS4 comes to the 360 (in which once I get a 360=they're reshipping soon, so I plan on getting it then), then the PS3 is over, just flat out done. It takes more than every game he 360 has, with weaker online, and Ratchet&Clank and Resistance: Fall of Man to have a console worth $600.

That is the stupidist pricing ever on a system, and it's over $1,000 outside of NA=insanely expensive=too much foucus on uneeded Blu-Ray. Do they expect average people to just cough out $600 out of thin air just do play Resistance, or do they think Blu-Ray adds $200 or something=??? Seriously, for all Sony's bragged for with Blu-Ray being amazing, the 360 has a thing that allows it to play HDDVD's. So Sony can't bragged anymore=owned!

Maybe that will be true in the years to come, but until we know for sure that Miis will appear in the next AC, fans of the series will be without a rep this fall.

NOOK FOR BRAWL!

This time next year is guarenteed, 6 months from now we could even get news. Heck, we could get news next month with E3 a coming! O, and Miis>Resetti>Tom Nook=bottom of the food chain!

Acording to Nintendo Power, Miciaiah is the main lord int he game - so she would make a better rep for GoD.

She is the main character in 2/3rds the game, Ike is the main character in 1/3rd the game. Ike is more reconizable, advertises better, and would generally be more profitable to have in Brawl. Roy, Sigurd, or Hector represeent the FE GBA games in recent past, and Marth represents back in the good old days. Add Ike represents the strong and running characters, so it's evenly balanced.

O, and since Ike is the main lord only 1/3rd the game that ensures that Marth's roll is the biggest in the series (he is the main character the whole way though both games). Idk if that means anything, bu I thought I should bring it up for the heck of it!

Marth is more recagnizazle popular only becuase he appeared in Melee. Once Miciaiah appears in Brawl , she will be more recagnizable and popular.

But if we were fair and balanced we'd get what I'd said above.

Think of all the trash talking you could do!

"Poo is such a piece of crap."

"You play as Poo? TURD LOVER!"

The fun will never end.

He's only in 1/6th the game (1 1/2 chapters). Paula is in 3/4th's the game, while Jeff comes in at over 1/2th the game. Ness and Lucas are in the entire game (minus the random missions where you get new characters), and they are obviously the most important characters in the series.

Well, I can see how your idea would be more exciting - but personally I prefer stages without a lot of hazzards or odd layouts. Still, any WW stage would make me happy.

That is why I propose a option that allows us to turn on and off hazards (ieannons, bullet bills, etc.). That way it fixes everything, and everything can be exciting. That alone would make me like Kong Jungle and Jungle Japes 200% more (I hate Klap Klaps!).

Anyways, more neat mpa additions Wiseguy. But now it is time for my character list, so here we go!

Mario Series: (5)
-Mario: No reason to explain, at all!
-Luigi: Maybe a little declone, but he's still a Mario clone. (Luigified hence the name Mario Clone)
-Bowser: No reasons to explain here.
-Peach: Simple enough.

Donkey Kong Series: (3)
-Donkey Kong: Oir main man (or ape) returns in his prime time, SSBB (not Metroid Prime 3)!
-Diddy Kong: People who hate on him tend to "disappear into the unknown".
-Dixie Kong: Cool, original, and could have some neat, but still reasonable combos.

the Legend of Zelda Series: (5)
-Link: Hiyaaa!
-Zelda: With a sword, and with skill. (Shiek is doubtful, but you never know for sure)
-Ganondorf: With a sword, more power (somehow), and insane yelling! Be warned, he's insane...
-WW Link: It is said if you don't wnat him in Brawl, I've already killed you...twice. And guess what, it's true! (Link clone)
-Midna (Imp form): With or without Wolf Link, idc=just as long as it works. Could go either way.

Metroid Series: (4)
-Samus: Seperate from ZSS to avoid being cheap. I hate cheap.
-Zero Suit Samus: "stop drooling, or she'll pwn you even more man!"
-Ridley: The main villian in the series, who generally would be exremely original.
-Dark Samus: Cool, dark, evil. That is as good as it gets! (Luigified Samus clone)

Kirby's Dreamland Series: (3)
-Kirby: Doubt him, and I'll make multi-billion dollar bets against you. O Bill Gates....
-Meta Knight: Who doesn't want to play as one of Sakurai's most briliant creations ever=???
-King Dedede: Noone with logical reason on the SWF doubts him.

Star Fox Series: (4)
-Fox: Super Awsome, and my main. Hopefully I'm smart and have 3 or so mains this time.
-Falco: Returning bigger, better, badder, and cockier! Don't mess with a crazy bird! (Fox luigified clone)
-Krystal: With her staff, she'll smack the life out of anyone in her way.
-Wolf: Virtually the doc-like clone of Brawl, who would make a exellent last minute addition (Fox clone)

Pokemon Series: (5)
-Pickachu: Super reconizable. Too bad wecan't have Blastoise!
-Jigglypuff: We doubted the puff, and it owned us. We did it again, it owned us again. Learn from your mistakes!
-Mewtwo: Back, and better than ever. Maybe people will actually play him this time around.
-Lucario: Most desired Pokemon, period!
-Deoxys: I like this guy, so why not=??? (Mewtwo clone)

Fire Emblem Series: (3)
-Marth: Returning, and better than ever.
-Ike: The newest member of the FE crew, and he'll hit you hard.
-3rd FE character (preferably and most likely Roy): Roy is back, hopefully...(Luigified Marth clone)

F-Zero Series: (2)
-Capt. Falcon: FALCCOOON PUNNNNNNCHHHA!
-Samurai Goroh: Unique awsome, and awe inspiring. (Capt. Falcon clone)

Earth Bound/Mother Series: (2)
-Ness: Mess with him and he'll bash you, hard!!!
-Lucas: Neo-Ness, who could be Doc like in Brawl. (Ness clone).

Other Nintendo Series' Characters: (7)
-Yoshi: Yoshi is back, for better or for worse.
-Wario: Don't talk about gas to this guy, or he'll "TEACH" you about it.
-Pit: Confirmed, done.
-G&W: Original, and awsome!
-Ice Climbers: Most original characters EVER!
-Capt. Olimar: Along with Balloon Fight, they'd be the most original newcomers by FAR!
-Miis: "My Rocky Balboa Mii will pwn your loser Miis anyday!"


3rd Party Characters: (3)
-Snake: If he wasn't edited in Brawl, Millions of children worldwide would cry when he stabs Pickachu.
-Sonic: The ultimate rivalry of Sega and Nintendo! Sonic vs. Mario!!!....ReadY....FIGHT!!!
-Megaman: The blue bomber will own in all of his blue and mega glory! MEGAAAMAAANNNN!!!

Barley Missed, but not out by any means:
-Balloon Fight: Has originality, but not fanbase. Sorry Balloon Fight, your almost guarenteed next time.
-Geno: Has a cult following, intresting moves, and is overall liked. Sadly he missed the list.
-Blazekein: Consider it game over until SSB5 (not 4, 5=100 characters by then).

Neat, but stand only a plausible/decent chance:
-Bowser Jr.: Without the waste of a slot Shadow Mario, he'd be cool (I guess).
-Paper Mario: Could be a great original or clone character.
-Crono: The silent but deadly type. I personally like him more than Geno, but if either make it I'm more than good.
-Issac: He could be originally awsome!
-Little Mac: He'll box his way to the victory belt!
-MachRider: Interesting story, intresting game, intresting character. VERY intresting.
-Pac-man: Don't know why you'd want him, but he still stands some chance I suppose.
-Lloyd Irvington: His dual-wielding skills make Sora jealous.

Characters who have no chance, but would be awsome anyways:
-Blastoise: One of the few PokemonI like, and could make a original character. Honestly, it could have several of Bowser's shell like moves, kicking, punching, ice attacks, water attacks, Earthquake, and on and on and on. Now that could be pretty awsome! Still, his chances rest at zero, unless you include a Pokeball Pokemon appearance, and then it's 99.99%, easily.

-Bomberman: Okay, he has more chance than Blastoise by a lot (I'd give him a 10% chance at most), but generally he's out of the hunt. But hey, he's still cool, at least IMO. And that's all that matters, right=???

46 characters=big roster, but good! So anyways, it consists of 9 clones and 37 original characters. As Wiseguy might find humorous I originally was going to have 10 clones (by miscount), but changed King Dedede to a original. Funny how I went clone overboard...somehow! Still, I doubt anyone with reason couldbe upset with the core of this list. Any thoughts, comments, and questions are welcome.

@ Flying Dutchman
Replace Black Shadow with Samurai Goroh, and remove Shadow Mario and you have a amazing list. I give it a nice 9.5=exellent work! Sudowoodo is random, but hey intresting pick, gotta give you that=originality=I like that. Good work, good list=who wouldn't be happy with that as the final character list=???

 

[Smady]

This page almost crashed me. And is that console bashing I hear yonder? What a terrible end to my computer that would be.

 

[:034:]

Wow. We're getting alot of new people every day since the updates started, it seems. Welcome to Smashboards.

The thought of Black Shadow appearing over Goroh makes me cringe, but other than that I would actualy be quite happy if this one were the actual roster. I'd give you an 8/10, but techinally a transformation like Shadow Mario counts as another character (assuming they have their own moveset) so I have to bump you down to 7/10 for going over the 40 character limit. Sorry, but those are the rules.

Thanks. Good to be here.

The reason I added the Black Shadow over Goroh is because he's an actual 'rival' to Falcon, more so than Goroh. He had appearances as the villain in the only story-driven F-Zero game, and appeared in the short-lived anime (where he got pwned by a well placed Falcon Punch =P). And he's on Sakurai's list. Helps.

And I abide by this list. If I'd change the Jr/S-Mario thing, I would have to take both out completly and replace with a different Mario character (since Mario needs 5 representatives, in my opinion). Bowser Jr alone isn't good enough, in my opinion.

@ Flying Dutchman
Replace Black Shadow with Samurai Goroh, and remove Shadow Mario and you have a amazing list. I give it a nice 9.5=exellent work! Sudowoodo is random, but hey intresting pick, gotta give you that=originality=I like that. Good work, good list=who wouldn't be happy with that as the final character list=???

Thank you! :D

I'm leaving Black Shadow in due to reasons listed above. Same with Shadow Mario.

But if I'd really have to replace Shad, let's go with Toad. =P

 

[Dark Sonic]

You are correct that Marth and Ike clash in terms of appearance and fighting type. FE games have a huge and diverse cast of characters, so there is simply no excuse for having two of the FE reps in Brawl be so similar. Might I recomend the Black Knight and/or Miciaiah?

The most definetly do not clash in terms of fighting type and the only similarities in apperance are hair color (they don't even have the same hair style) and the weapons that they use (the falcion is still much different from Ragnell in size, shape, and color). This hair color thing is being blown way out of proportion. Their personalities and fighting styles aren't even compareable. No one in melee fought like Marth (not even Roy, who had the same moveset) and no one in brawl will fight like Marth

There would be nothing wrong with including both of them and I think Marth is much more deserving of a spot than the Black Knight or Miciaiah. I also don't like the idea of putting in a clone character like Black Knight when we have so few spots.

My FE choices are
1.Marth
2.Ike
3.Miciaiah

Marth-He's the first FE lord and the first to star in more than one game, which hasn't been repeated until recently with Ike. He introduced western gamers to the FE franchise though his appearance in Melee and became a popular character worldwide for his unique style of play. Though some of his popularity came from his powerful moveset, most of his fans like him because he is graceful, fun to watch, and fun to play. He has been popular in Japan ever since the release of his game and even had his own OVA. He was significant enough to make a second appearance in FE and he's significant enough to make a second appearance in Smash as the origonal face of FE.

Ike-Ike is a popular character worldwide because of his well recieved game FE Path of Radiance. Ike is the first lord to not come from a noble family and doesn't have the cliche "My kingdom is in danger and it's my duty to protect it" attitude that has been the reocoring mindset of the FE lords. He brought a refreshing new personality to FE and was immediately liked. The fact that he was also a very powerful unit just made him more popular. Japan didn't like the GBA games, but this one was a different story. Ike deserves a spot in Brawl as the new face of FE games.

Miciaiah-The first Magic exclusive lord of the FE series and the main character of the up-coming game FE Goddess of the Dawn. Miciaiah would bring diversity to the Brawl cast as both a magic user and a girl. Though she's not as popular as some other lords (mostly because she's not that good in her game and is overshadowed by Ike), she would be a nice promotion the up-comming release (kinda like Roy) and would help her game sell.

I'm really hoping for more FE characters, but if we only get two or three then these are the ones I think should be in. The Black Knight is a tempting suggestion, but I think the most unique characters should be added before even considering a clone.

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

Miciaiah - The first Magic using lord of the FE series and the main character of the up-coming game FE Goddess of the Dawn. Miciaiah would bring diversity to the Brawl cast as both a magic user and a girl. Though she's not as popular as some other lords (mostly because she's not that good in her game and is overshadowed by Ike), she would be a nice promotion the up-comming release (kinda like Roy) and would help her game sell.

Incorrect... I don't know who it was, but I'm pretty sure there was one before her...

*Does research to find the answer.*

 

[LukeFonFabre]

One of the lords (forgot the name) in FE gaiden uses swords and magic, though that game is really the black sheep of the series and is largely forgotten about by most FE fans in Japan (and was never released internationally so it's even more obscure). Still, Micaiah is the first lord to profess solely in Magic.

 

[Dark Sonic]

edited post. Turns out that Celica started off as a Priest and got swords after promotion as opposed to vice versa. Miciaiah is still the only magic exclusive lord with
her starting weapon being a light magic tome that's effecive against cavalry and armored units. (a magic weapon that doubles in might against generals. Ouch)

 

[Smady]

I don't see any Fire Emblem women getting in. I don't think it's viewed as that kind of franchise, and it would benefit more from a villain. The game's are based around revenge, fighting and badass swordsmanship more than love and magic. Am I right?

 

[LukeFonFabre]

Actually, magic is quite a big part of Fire Emblem given it's swords and sorcery atmosphere. And as for love, one of the main mechanics in FE is the support system, so love and companionship is also quite a big theme. Though really, the women in your army are just as capable as the men (sometimes even more so ie Nephenee), so why they should be excluded is beyond me, especially seeing that Sakurai is all for adding female characters.

And as far as villains go, the only villain with any chance is Black Knight (largely because he's one of the more popular ones and his respective hero is practically a shoe-in), and while he'd fit well as a clone, he's not the best choice if Sakurai is looking for something original.

Personally, I think Micaiah adds more as an FE rep due to her magic than lack Knight being a villain does, and I don't feel that the franchise desperately needs a villain rep, at least not compared to franchises like Metroid and Starfox.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^ I agree 100%. Most of the time they're fighting for some kind of higher goal, so it's not really about the fighting itself. The badass swordsman ship isn't really a big theme either. Eliwood didn't come across as a skilled sword fighter, nor did Erika. Ike had a rough style that was polished out throughout the game. Magic has had much more significance than any of these.


Nino is another great example of females doing better than their male counterparts. (stat wise anyway)

 

[Johnknight1]

Thanks. Good to be here.

The reason I added the Black Shadow over Goroh is because he's an actual 'rival' to Falcon, more so than Goroh. He had appearances as the villain in the only story-driven F-Zero game, and appeared in the short-lived anime (where he got pwned by a well placed Falcon Punch =P). And he's on Sakurai's list. Helps.

And I abide by this list. If I'd change the Jr/S-Mario thing, I would have to take both out completly and replace with a different Mario character (since Mario needs 5 representatives, in my opinion). Bowser Jr alone isn't good enough, in my opinion.

LOL, every gets pwned by "FALLLCCCOOONNNN PUNNNNCCCHHHH-a!" Anyways, Goroh has been in every F-Zero game, thus he's the only character to do so (Capt. Falcon wasn't in one of the GBA ones). Plus Goroh is a probably the 2nd most popular character in the series out of all the F-Zero characters (only Capt. Falcon is more popular)..

Intresting perspective on the Bowser Jr. stance, but I think he's good on his own. He could use Shadow Mario as a special (or that giant Bowser bot) as his Final Smash. However, Shadow Mario is just basically Mario with a paintbrush, and while Bowser Jr. was the main villian in SM Sunshine and could transform into Shadow Mario, in New Super Mario Bros. Bowser Jr. doesn't transform into Shadow Mario. I suspect we won't see Shadow Mario again, at least notanytime soon=but I'm just speculating.

I think it's a unfair advantage, much like Shiek and Zelda was unfair. Transforming and having two characters on yoyur side plays a huge mindgame roll that can change the way the game is going. If your opponent is owning you, and you transform, they'll have to come up with a new gameplan pretty fast, otherwise they lose. That is the main thing I definitely didn't like with Zelda and Shiek=unfair mindgames.

Thank you! :D

I'm leaving Black Shadow in due to reasons listed above. Same with Shadow Mario.

But if I'd really have to replace Shad, let's go with Toad. =P

Your welcome, it was a fair and reasonable character selection list, and I'd be happy playing it (even with the lack of WW Link). However, I think Bowser Jr. is best alone, and Shadow Mario holds him back, or plays unfair mindgames as I have stated above. Toad wouldn't make it due to lack of popularity, so Bowser Jr. alone is the best hope for another Mario rep. That 9.5/10 is the highest character selection rating I've ever rated or given to anyone,so consider your list a overall success just because I said so!

 

[Kunitsuna]

I don´t care for Micaiah and hope she doesn´t make it in. But if she does, oh hell.

I think that the "HOMYGOD THEY HAVE THE SAME HAIR COLOR--DON´T YOU DARE PUT BOTH IN SSBB!" notion is unbelievably overblown. The truth is that Marth, Ike and Sigurd all have different heights, hairstyles, faces, armor and clothing, kinds of swords, battle styles and personalities, and if Sakurai wanted to he could differentiate them even further through updated looks like he did with Pit upon inclusion. If characters like Pikachu and Pichu or Jigglypuff and Kirby are in SSBM, there´s nothing to say about Marth/Ike, Ike/Sigurd or Marth/Sigurd.

As a matter of fact, I think that those three happen to be the ones with the highest chances to make it into SSBB. Marth is the first lord and the only to appear in two FE games aside from Ike, and was already in the previous installation. Ike is wildly requested, would serve to advertise Fire Emblem: Goddess of Dawn and also featured in another FE game. Sigurd is popular and also widly requested, and supposedly Sakurai has a penchant for him. If anyone is following close behind, I´m afraid it´s the Black Knight.

And I wouldn´t be scared to include Marth, Ike and Sigurd in SSBB. Three blue-haired swordsmen, somebody save us. The characters all have potential for diversity and deserve their spot.

Rant over.

 

[Phaazoid]

micaiah, maybe. when i played FE, i always overused wyvern knights and generals. both have low chances in brawl, as lords or main villains have the most chances. i can't see leon getting in, though he is my favorite villain (only when possessed, otherwise he sucks). that FE game was my favorite though. i personally hope for erika or ephraim, but ike is newer. i personally didn't like path of radiance as much. Lyn, Hector, and Eliwood. well, Eliwood was Roy's dad, but i didn't like him much. Hector was an axe wielding lord, but was slow and incompetent. . Lyn was the main lord, and was fast, which i liked. if anyone from that game makes it in, i think it should be lyn. Sigurd, i have never played his game, so i have no clue. as for the hair color argument, i agree that it is stupid. Pikachu and pichu are bothe yellow! OMFG. i just hope a fast magic wielder is in. sigh.

 

[pineappleupsetshark]

Let's see if I can do 40 this time.

Mario:
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr. (No Shadow Mario. Transformations aren't worth the effort.)

Pokemon:
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Meowth
Deoxys
Lucario

Zelda:
Link
Zelda
WW Link (Link clone)
Ganondorf
Wolf Link&Midna

Star Fox:
Fox
Falco
Wolf (Fox clone)
Krystal

Kirby:
Kirby
Metaknight
King Dedede

DK:
DK
Diddy Kong
King K. Rool (Bowser clone)

FE:
Marth
Ike
Black Knight (Never played any FE games, but looks **** cool to me.)

Metroid:
Samus/ZSS
Ridley
Dark Samus

F-Zero:
Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh

Earthbound:
Ness
Lucas

WarioWare:
Wario

Yoshi:
Yoshi

Pikmin:
Captain Olimar

Kid Icarus:
Pit

Metal Gear:
Solid Snake

Sonic:
Sonic

Other:
Geno

 

[Johnknight1]

Whoa pineappleupsetshark , great list. Other than Meowth (in which Mewtwo>Meowth), this list is near perfect.

I'll give you a incredible 10/10=job well done.

However, I also believe that ZSS and Samus will be seperate characters, but that is debateable. A truely exellent list to say the least.

 

[Kunitsuna]

Anyways, here´s another list I came up with.

Super Mario Bros.
01. Mario
02. Luigi (Mario clone)
03. Princess Peach
04. Bowser
05. Bowser Jr.

Yoshi
06. Yoshi

Donkey Kong
07. Donkey Kong
08. Diddy Kong

WarioWare
09. Wario

Kid Icarus
10. Pit

The Legend of Zelda
11. Link
12. Zelda
13. Ganondorf
14. Midna

Pikmin
15. Captain Olimar

Pokémon
16. Pikachu
17. Jigglypuff
18. Meowth
19. Deoxys

Kirby
20. Kirby
21. Metaknight
22. King Dedede

F-Zero
23. Captain Falcon

Earthbound / MOTHER
24. Lucas
25. Masked Boy

Punch-Out!!
26. Little Mac

Balloon Fight
27. Alice

Metroid
28. Samus
29. Zero-Suit Samus
30. Ridley

Fire Emblem
31. Marth
32. Ike
33. Sigurd (Marth clone)

Star Fox
34. Fox
35. Wolf (Fox clone)
36. Krystal

Panel de Pon
37. Lip

Sonic (THIRD PARTY - SEGA)
38. Sonic the Hedgehog

Castlevania (THIRD PARTY - KONAMI)
39. Simon Belmont

Metal Gear (THIRD PARTY - KONAMI)
40. Snake

Nintendo Wii
41. Mii

Forty-one characters with three clones.

I gave franchises fair representation. The flagship franchise gets five, the big ones get four, the highly recognizeable ones get three, the somewhat well-known ones get two and the obscure/retro ones get one.

 

[Devastlian]

I think it's rather laughable to believe that objective thought is possible. :/

Also, I don't think Luigi would be considered a clone unless they un-Luigifyed him. 'Cause, if they're copying him from SSBM like they seem to be with all the other characters, then he should just be considered a normal returning character. Or something.

Actually...you'd think they'd take less time to program than a character with a new moveset if they're as relatively unchanged as they've appeared to be. <_<

 

[Wiseguy]

WAH HA HA HA HA HA! It's time for the dreaded "Wiseguy WALL OF PAIN!" Run in terror, mortals!

I know a few good Ness' who are pretty good. Plus the people on the Ness Melee section are all super-pros=no n00bs. It's a experienced player haven (or heaven, minus the glowy lights!). That might be the most helpful character specific area=way better than the Link section. Generally only people with tons of skill play Ness (other than me) because he is one of the harder to use characters.

I know some impressive Ness players as well. In the hands of a master, Ness can be a deadly adversasry, no question. But I think most people would agree that Ness is a mere shell of his former SSB64 glory.

I bet it's running on either Melee's server, another past server, or a new one. But I think it is Melee's server. By the way, in Melee did they use the same server as in SSB64 (I'm pretty sure not, but correct me if I'm wrong)=??? If it is using Melee's server (with the obvious graphic and gameplay updates), then not as many character removals are necissary, and many more characters will make it. We all win, and whether this is true or not effects the roster quite a bit.

Yeah, that does effect the roster alot - but without knowing how extensively the Melee engine was altered for Brawl, it's impossible to know how easily it is to reprogram a returning character compared to designing a new character from scratch. Until more of the roster is revealed, we can only go with our gut instincts, I suppose.

By the way Wiseguy, it looks like Sakurai stole my MP3: Corrupion stage idea (total mayhem fight on ships like Star Destroyers in a intense moving battle), and made it into the Lylat Cruise. Better draw them out before he steals my stage ideas...AGAIN!

O well, Delfino Plaza and that MP3: Corruption Battle Scene probably were my best ideas, along with that WW course idea, and that Super Mario Galaxy stages. In which in my SMG stage you fight on planetoids (the asteroids with houses and stuff like that), asteroids, with bullet bills and stuff all over. Pretty much sorta like my MP3 idea and Rainbow Cruise combined, but with SPG stuff of course.

I really like the idea of a Galaxy stage. From the gameplay footage I've seen, the trippy intergalactic platform jumping of Galaxy lends itself perfectly as a replacement for Rainbow Cruise. But with Lylat Cruise already confirmed, is there room for another space stage?

LLoyd Irvington ftw, Lloyd Irvington for BRAWL! That game had a ton of depth, and is one of the best modern RPG's out there, easily.

Actually, it's just Irving - not Irvington. But yeah - Symphonia is hard to top. I'm super phyched becuase this Wednesday I'm finally borrowing my friend's PS2 allow with his copy of Tales of Abyss. Now I can finally find out if LukeFonFabre's namesake is all it's cracked up to be (it's the name of the hero in Abyss).

And Zelda and the wiimote/numchuck functions go together like marshmellows, graham crackers, and chocolate: You can't go wrong.

Yeah, and now Phantom Hourglass is introducing revolutionary stylus controls in the Zelda formulae. It's great to see that Nintendo continuing to inovate.

As for the DS remake/new PD (or Goldeneye 007 for that matter) I would pay $100 if it was HALF as good as the original (assuming it had online). That would be amazing exellent, and amazingly exciting to play online. I heard some people liked Goldeneye 007 so much that they remade the game using a Half-Life 2 (or the Source) server, revampt graphics, guns, and all, and added online to it. Hope there's something like that for PD=would be sick!

Word. Now that we're finally getting a Melee sequel this fall, a DS remake of Perfect Dark with Wi-fi is the game I most want to see announced.

ARE YOU LISTENING NINTENDO?!?! MAKE IT HAPPEN PRONTO!

"Mendez is our resident Advance Wars advocate. He posted a good Andy moveset a few (hundred) pages back, though I'm still not convinced that a chracter who primarily wacks his opponets with a hammer would be very appealing."

King Dedede, IC, Kirby, and G&W are enough.

Urgh.. I meant to say wrench, not hammer. Andy uses a wrench, which I feel would be pretty lame in terms of a moveset. You could do it, but would you really want to?

I'm getting closer and closer to the point where I'll make bets now that they are seperate characters. Ya, I'm that certain, and by E3 expect them to be diffrent characters. If E3 wasn't retarted this year and didn't allow the public, I'd go (since San Fransisco is like 1 hour from here). But since the last good E3 is in the past, I guess I'll never be able to go. Aww well, we'll get a Brawl trailer=heals everything.

It doesn't make much difference to me. E3 will be the same as it's always been - in that it's the week I spend glued to my computer reading the latest previews and watching the Nintendo Press Conferance via Gametrailers.com.

Ahh well, it was worth thinking of how it would work. I'm sure it was or will be considered, but I bet in SSBB they'll have 6-8 person online multiplayer (not including the possible DS SSB game). Still, me wondering how it would work makes me wonder, I was just wondering that out of sheer curiosity. Unless there is a expansion pack (little if any chacne), or downloadable content, I doubt it will happen at all.

Cheer up, man. 4 player matches over Wi-fi are exciting enough in and of itself. 6-8players would be awesome, but we can always get that in the next Smash, as you pointed out.

Except most of their moves are interchangeable. Funny how basically all of the moves Paula knows that Ness doesn't know, Ness uses them in SSB. What makes more sense is Lucas being a Ness clone=the neo-Ness. Now I know you hate Japan only's Wiseguy, but I think he is a exception (along with Marth and Roy).

I mean, we get characters from series generally not liked very much in Japan (Metroid, and even to some extent Star Fox), so why not=??? The enormous cult following Earth Bound has could get Lucas in, plus we all know Lucas was suppose to relpace Ness in Melee. So I think Lucas would be a fine character addition, original or clone. Plus he'd make a good clone Wiseguy.

Of the possible Japanese only characters, I conider Lucas to be the best option - given the lack of internationally released Mather games. Heck, if the Earthbound fans prefer Lucas as Ness' clone over Poo, I can live with that. I think it could go either way (or in a comepetly different direction) but I gave the nod to Poo becuase of his unique personality. But yeah, either would be fine with me.

A vast majority of Wii owners don't have Smooth Moves (myself included), and the same goes in Japan. However, the Mario Kar DS appearance means something. But has ROB ever had his onw game=??? All the current characters in their games played the main roll as a hero,villian, or damsel of some sortin their series, or as a long lasting supporting cast member over two random appearances.

Smooth Moves has been in the top 10 Wii games since it's release - and it did very well in Japan when it was released at the Wii's launch. But ROB's cameos don't stop there. He also appeared in F-Zero GX (he's the giant Robot in the background of one of the maps) and in Pikmin 2 (Robo's decapitated head was one of the most valuable treasures in the game). He's also been in all the Warioware games, I believe, and you might remember a certain robot sidekick in the Starfoc series who goes by the same name. ROB is the "Where's Waldo" of Nintendo games.

Ya, but you're forgetting Japanese Smashers. He was the #1 pick for Japanese gamers for Melee in 1999 by a large margin, and has had a cult following in Japan for a long time. I think it's only fair to have a few predominantly Japanese series characters (FE) and a few predoominatly Western series characters (Metroid, and to some extent SF).

Yeah, but atleast all the Metroid games were released in Japan. Marth isn't "predominently" Japanese - he's Japanese only. However, I'll get to that later with Sonic Wave...

How did Duke Kukem Foreveer go (I've heard of that game before)=???

To put it simply, it didn't. The game has been in development for like 15 years with no end in sight. The game has been a huge joke - they say they called it Duke Nukem Forever because that's how long it will take to complete.

Well Halo 1&2 were great games, what can you say=??? (SM Sunshine was way underrated) You know, I've been doubting Halo 3 will outsell Brawl. Melee outsold the first Halo by over 3 million units, and Halo 2 only outsold Melee by less than a million units. Since Halo 2 has online, that is a definite advantage.

If Melee had a sequal that had online it definitely could have outsold Halo 2. However, Brawl needs to have good online, have it shown off like crazy, get cult following characters (1st, 2nd, and 3rd), and just overall play good like in the past, but taken up several levels.

Sunshine underrated? I'd say the opposite. Many people consider it to be like the second coming, when in fact it's not all that special. Fun, no doubt, but is it really all that revolutionary? I think not.

I not too sure if Brawl will outsell Halo 3 initially. The 360 still has ma alrger installed base at present. However, over time I agree that Brawl has the potential is sell more copies as the Wii becomes the leading console of this generation.

Anyways, if MGS4 comes to the 360 (in which once I get a 360=they're reshipping soon, so I plan on getting it then), then the PS3 is over, just flat out done. It takes more than every game he 360 has, with weaker online, and Ratchet&Clank and Resistance: Fall of Man to have a console worth $600.

That is the stupidist pricing ever on a system, and it's over $1,000 outside of NA=insanely expensive=too much foucus on uneeded Blu-Ray. Do they expect average people to just cough out $600 out of thin air just do play Resistance, or do they think Blu-Ray adds $200 or something=??? Seriously, for all Sony's bragged for with Blu-Ray being amazing, the 360 has a thing that allows it to play HDDVD's. So Sony can't bragged anymore=owned!

To be fair, the PS3's fall lineup is more impressive (I would argue) than the 360's was in it's first year. In addition to Ratchet and Clanck, they've got some interesting exclusive titles like Heavenly Sword, Lair, and Drake's Adventure. But are you really going to dish out $1000this fall for those games when the 360 and Wii have AAA exclusives like Halo and Brawl? Me thinks not.

This time next year is guarenteed, 6 months from now we could even get news. Heck, we could get news next month with E3 a coming! O, and Miis>Resetti>Tom Nook=bottom of the food chain!

Having Miis represent Animal Crossing instead of Nook would be like Miis representing Wario Ware instead of Wario: shameful and forbidden.

She is the main character in 2/3rds the game, Ike is the main character in 1/3rd the game. Ike is more reconizable, advertises better, and would generally be more profitable to have in Brawl. Roy, Sigurd, or Hector represeent the FE GBA games in recent past, and Marth represents back in the good old days. Add Ike represents the strong and running characters, so it's evenly balanced.

O, and since Ike is the main lord only 1/3rd the game that ensures that Marth's roll is the biggest in the series (he is the main character the whole way though both games). Idk if that means anything, bu I thought I should bring it up for the heck of it!

Worse comes to worse, Ike could represent both Tellius games. However, since Miciaiah has the potential for suchg a unique moveset I would argue that it would be better just to have them both in Brawl.

He's only in 1/6th the game (1 1/2 chapters). Paula is in 3/4th's the game, while Jeff comes in at over 1/2th the game. Ness and Lucas are in the entire game (minus the random missions where you get new characters), and they are obviously the most important characters in the series.

I must admit, you make a compelling argument. I'll give some serious thought to replacing Poo with Lucas.

That is why I propose a option that allows us to turn on and off hazards (ieannons, bullet bills, etc.). That way it fixes everything, and everything can be exciting. That alone would make me like Kong Jungle and Jungle Japes 200% more (I hate Klap Klaps!).

That's no good either. I do like to occasionally have a crazy, hazzard filled stage (though usually prefer the more stable maps like Corneria) and if you had the option of turnng off hazards the same fun hating grinches who demand that items reamin off at all times would outlaw hazzards as well. So yeah, I like your idea but I would just prefer a more stable map with a few hazzards.

Anyways, more neat mpa additions Wiseguy. But now it is time for my character list, so here we go!

Mario Series: (5)
-Mario: No reason to explain, at all!
-Luigi: Maybe a little declone, but he's still a Mario clone. (Luigified hence the name Mario Clone)
-Bowser: No reasons to explain here.
-Peach: Simple enough.

Donkey Kong Series: (3)
-Donkey Kong: Oir main man (or ape) returns in his prime time, SSBB (not Metroid Prime 3)!
-Diddy Kong: People who hate on him tend to "disappear into the unknown".
-Dixie Kong: Cool, original, and could have some neat, but still reasonable combos.

the Legend of Zelda Series: (5)
-Link: Hiyaaa!
-Zelda: With a sword, and with skill. (Shiek is doubtful, but you never know for sure)
-Ganondorf: With a sword, more power (somehow), and insane yelling! Be warned, he's insane...
-WW Link: It is said if you don't wnat him in Brawl, I've already killed you...twice. And guess what, it's true! (Link clone)
-Midna (Imp form): With or without Wolf Link, idc=just as long as it works. Could go either way.

Metroid Series: (4)
-Samus: Seperate from ZSS to avoid being cheap. I hate cheap.
-Zero Suit Samus: "stop drooling, or she'll pwn you even more man!"
-Ridley: The main villian in the series, who generally would be exremely original.
-Dark Samus: Cool, dark, evil. That is as good as it gets! (Luigified Samus clone)

Kirby's Dreamland Series: (3)
-Kirby: Doubt him, and I'll make multi-billion dollar bets against you. O Bill Gates....
-Meta Knight: Who doesn't want to play as one of Sakurai's most briliant creations ever=???
-King Dedede: Noone with logical reason on the SWF doubts him.

Star Fox Series: (4)
-Fox: Super Awsome, and my main. Hopefully I'm smart and have 3 or so mains this time.
-Falco: Returning bigger, better, badder, and cockier! Don't mess with a crazy bird! (Fox luigified clone)
-Krystal: With her staff, she'll smack the life out of anyone in her way.
-Wolf: Virtually the doc-like clone of Brawl, who would make a exellent last minute addition (Fox clone)

Pokemon Series: (5)
-Pickachu: Super reconizable. Too bad wecan't have Blastoise!
-Jigglypuff: We doubted the puff, and it owned us. We did it again, it owned us again. Learn from your mistakes!
-Mewtwo: Back, and better than ever. Maybe people will actually play him this time around.
-Lucario: Most desired Pokemon, period!
-Deoxys: I like this guy, so why not=??? (Mewtwo clone)

Fire Emblem Series: (3)
-Marth: Returning, and better than ever.
-Ike: The newest member of the FE crew, and he'll hit you hard.
-3rd FE character (preferably and most likely Roy): Roy is back, hopefully...(Luigified Marth clone)

F-Zero Series: (2)
-Capt. Falcon: FALCCOOON PUNNNNNNCHHHA!
-Samurai Goroh: Unique awsome, and awe inspiring. (Capt. Falcon clone)

Earth Bound/Mother Series: (2)
-Ness: Mess with him and he'll bash you, hard!!!
-Lucas: Neo-Ness, who could be Doc like in Brawl. (Ness clone).

Other Nintendo Series' Characters: (7)
-Yoshi: Yoshi is back, for better or for worse.
-Wario: Don't talk about gas to this guy, or he'll "TEACH" you about it.
-Pit: Confirmed, done.
-G&W: Original, and awsome!
-Ice Climbers: Most original characters EVER!
-Capt. Olimar: Along with Balloon Fight, they'd be the most original newcomers by FAR!
-Miis: "My Rocky Balboa Mii will pwn your loser Miis anyday!"


3rd Party Characters: (3)
-Snake: If he wasn't edited in Brawl, Millions of children worldwide would cry when he stabs Pickachu.
-Sonic: The ultimate rivalry of Sega and Nintendo! Sonic vs. Mario!!!....ReadY....FIGHT!!!
-Megaman: The blue bomber will own in all of his blue and mega glory! MEGAAAMAAANNNN!!!

Barley Missed, but not out by any means:
-Balloon Fight: Has originality, but not fanbase. Sorry Balloon Fight, your almost guarenteed next time.
-Geno: Has a cult following, intresting moves, and is overall liked. Sadly he missed the list.
-Blazekein: Consider it game over until SSB5 (not 4, 5=100 characters by then).

Neat, but stand only a plausible/decent chance:
-Bowser Jr.: Without the waste of a slot Shadow Mario, he'd be cool (I guess).
-Paper Mario: Could be a great original or clone character.
-Crono: The silent but deadly type. I personally like him more than Geno, but if either make it I'm more than good.
-Issac: He could be originally awsome!
-Little Mac: He'll box his way to the victory belt!
-MachRider: Interesting story, intresting game, intresting character. VERY intresting.
-Pac-man: Don't know why you'd want him, but he still stands some chance I suppose.
-Lloyd Irvington: His dual-wielding skills make Sora jealous.

Characters who have no chance, but would be awsome anyways:
-Blastoise: One of the few PokemonI like, and could make a original character. Honestly, it could have several of Bowser's shell like moves, kicking, punching, ice attacks, water attacks, Earthquake, and on and on and on. Now that could be pretty awsome! Still, his chances rest at zero, unless you include a Pokeball Pokemon appearance, and then it's 99.99%, easily.

-Bomberman: Okay, he has more chance than Blastoise by a lot (I'd give him a 10% chance at most), but generally he's out of the hunt. But hey, he's still cool, at least IMO. And that's all that matters, right=???

46 characters=big roster, but good! So anyways, it consists of 9 clones and 37 original characters. As Wiseguy might find humorous I originally was going to have 10 clones (by miscount), but changed King Dedede to a original. Funny how I went clone overboard...somehow! Still, I doubt anyone with reason couldbe upset with the core of this list. Any thoughts, comments, and questions are welcome.

We might disagree on some things JK1, but I could most definitely live with your roster as well. 9.5/10, great job.

This page almost crashed me. And is that console bashing I hear yonder? What a terrible end to my computer that would be.

Thanks. Good to be here.

The reason I added the Black Shadow over Goroh is because he's an actual 'rival' to Falcon, more so than Goroh. He had appearances as the villain in the only story-driven F-Zero game, and appeared in the short-lived anime (where he got pwned by a well placed Falcon Punch =P). And he's on Sakurai's list. Helps.

Yeah, BS (apropriate initials) was the main villian in GX - but Goroh has been Falcon's rivial since the beggining of the F-zero franchise. I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a possibility of he being included over Goroh, but given that most F-zero fans seem to favor Goroh I'm inclined to think that he is the one who will make the cut (atleast I hope...)

And I abide by this list. If I'd change the Jr/S-Mario thing, I would have to take both out completly and replace with a different Mario character (since Mario needs 5 representatives, in my opinion). Bowser Jr alone isn't good enough, in my opinion.

I wasn't suggesting you have to cut Dark Mario - just that if you want to stay within the 40 character limit you need to remove one character. Not that you have to. 40 is a completely arbitrary number, and your list is no less reasonable than mine. So do what you like - it's a free thread.

The most definetly do not clash in terms of fighting type and the only similarities in apperance are hair color (they don't even have the same hair style) and the weapons that they use (the falcion is still much different from Ragnell in size, shape, and color). This hair color thing is being blown way out of proportion. Their personalities and fighting styles aren't even compareable. No one in melee fought like Marth (not even Roy, who had the same moveset) and no one in brawl will fight like Marth

Welcome back Sonic Wave. Let's see if we can settle this Marth debate once and for all...

Marth and Ike aren't identical, by any means, but if you compare the two characters (particularly the Ike from Path of Radiance) they are indeed quite similar – for a series with as huge and diverse a cast as Fire Emblem.

When I say that they clash, I mean that they share the same gender, hair colour, weapon type and have similar (though not identical) clothing. This would be lessened considerably by using the older GoD Ike – but a completely different character like Miciaiah would be more unique still.

Yeah they have different fighting styles (which is just a fancy way of saying that Marth swings his sword vertically and Ike horizontally) but in comparison to the many unique fighting classes in the FE games, Ike and Marth would be too similar for my liking.

As for their personalities – they don't really matter, since they won't come across all that well in a context like Brawl anyway. Ike is a guy avenging his dead father, Marth is a guy avenging his dead sister – but in Smash Bros they would just be two guys with with capes and swords. Do their roles in the games matter? Absolutely. But roster diversity is also an important factor to consider.

There would be nothing wrong with including both of them and I think Marth is much more deserving of a spot than the Black Knight or Miciaiah. I also don't like the idea of putting in a clone character like Black Knight when we have so few spots.

Let's make something clear: this isn't a question of including either an original character or a clone. If they include a clone, it's because that's all they had time for – not because they ran out of ideas. If, as I suspect, they only have time to include a maximum of 2 unique FE characters and 1 clone then Marth will have to compete for against Miciaih and other more unique FE lords for the second spot alongside Ike.

It's worth noting that having so few character slots actually makes clones MORE likely, since they can be included in a fraction of the development time.

My FE choices are
1.Marth
2.Ike
3.Miciaiah

To be honest, this isn't a unlikely outcome. Marth still has a strong chance of being included – but there is an equally strong case for his removal. We just have to wait and see where Sakurai stands. Anyway, let me go through your choices.

Marth-He's the first FE lord and the first to star in more than one game, which hasn't been repeated until recently with Ike. He introduced western gamers to the FE franchise though his appearance in Melee and became a popular character worldwide for his unique style of play. Though some of his popularity came from his powerful moveset, most of his fans like him because he is graceful, fun to watch, and fun to play. He has been popular in Japan ever since the release of his game and even had his own OVA. He was significant enough to make a second appearance in FE and he's significant enough to make a second appearance in Smash as the origonal face of FE.

He starred in the first game and a second on the Super Famicom – BUT hasn't even appeared in a FE game in ten years.

He is one of the more often used Melee characters – BUT since his game hasn't been released outside Japan they know only the most basic facts about the character (ie: he starred in the first FE game, something about avenging his sister...). Thus they could have included any “graceful” sword fighter in his place and he would have been just as popular outside Japan. Sorry Marth, but they only love you for your huge, cheap sword.

He is popular in Japan - BUT so is Ike and he has the added advantage of being popular among FE fans worldwide as well, making him a better rep for the series. Characters like Miciaiah or the Black Knight would quickly eclipse Marth in global popularity should they become playable characters in a Smash Bros game.

He starred in his own anime' – BUT it was so unpopular that it was cancelled after only a few episodes.

Conclusion: Marth's WAS signifiacant enough to the FE series to represent it in a single instalment in Smash Bros, but given that he is pretty much a dead character outside of Melee he is not worthy of appearing in a second. There are a wealth of other more unique FE characters from games that are popular around the world and not just in Japan.

Ike-Ike is a popular character worldwide because of his well recieved game FE Path of Radiance. Ike is the first lord to not come from a noble family and doesn't have the cliche "My kingdom is in danger and it's my duty to protect it" attitude that has been the reocoring mindset of the FE lords. He brought a refreshing new personality to FE and was immediately liked. The fact that he was also a very powerful unit just made him more popular. Japan didn't like the GBA games, but this one was a different story. Ike deserves a spot in Brawl as the new face of FE games.

Well said. We are in complete agreement that Ike is most definitely worthy of an appearance in Brawl.

Miciaiah-The first Magic exclusive lord of the FE series and the main character of the up-coming game FE Goddess of the Dawn. Miciaiah would bring diversity to the Brawl cast as both a magic user and a girl. Though she's not as popular as some other lords (mostly because she's not that good in her game and is overshadowed by Ike), she would be a nice promotion the up-comming release (kinda like Roy) and would help her game sell.

I agree. I would also add that Miciaiah (and any other new FE character in Brawl) would instantly rise in popularity once they become a playable character in Brawl – just as Marth and Roy became more well known as Melee fighters than as FE lords.

I'm really hoping for more FE characters, but if we only get two or three then these are the ones I think should be in. The Black Knight is a tempting suggestion, but I think the most unique characters should be added before even considering a clone.

Again, it's not so simple. If they have time to create three unique FE character – then I agree that Marth, Ike and Miciaiah is very likely. But if they get pressed for time, and have to include one clone, then it seems more likely that they will include BK and drop the least essential of the characters: Marth.

I don't see any Fire Emblem women getting in. I don't think it's viewed as that kind of franchise, and it would benefit more from a villain. The game's are based around revenge, fighting and badass swordsmanship more than love and magic. Am I right?

Actually, magic is quite a big part of Fire Emblem given it's swords and sorcery atmosphere. And as for love, one of the main mechanics in FE is the support system, so love and companionship is also quite a big theme. Though really, the women in your army are just as capable as the men (sometimes even more so ie Nephenee), so why they should be excluded is beyond me, especially seeing that Sakurai is all for adding female characters.

And as far as villains go, the only villain with any chance is Black Knight (largely because he's one of the more popular ones and his respective hero is practically a shoe-in), and while he'd fit well as a clone, he's not the best choice if Sakurai is looking for something original.

Personally, I think Micaiah adds more as an FE rep due to her magic than lack Knight being a villain does, and I don't feel that the franchise desperately needs a villain rep, at least not compared to franchises like Metroid and Starfox.

I'm going to have to side with Luke on this one. BK is still a likely choice (and my second favorite potential character), but Miciaiah would make for a more unique addition to the Brawl roster.

I don´t care for Micaiah and hope she doesn´t make it in. But if she does, oh hell.

I think that the "HOMYGOD THEY HAVE THE SAME HAIR COLOR--DON´T YOU DARE PUT BOTH IN SSBB!" notion is unbelievably overblown. The truth is that Marth, Ike and Sigurd all have different heights, hairstyles, faces, armor and clothing, kinds of swords, battle styles and personalities, and if Sakurai wanted to he could differentiate them even further through updated looks like he did with Pit upon inclusion. If characters like Pikachu and Pichu or Jigglypuff and Kirby are in SSBM, there´s nothing to say about Marth/Ike, Ike/Sigurd or Marth/Sigurd.

As a matter of fact, I think that those three happen to be the ones with the highest chances to make it into SSBB. Marth is the first lord and the only to appear in two FE games aside from Ike, and was already in the previous installation. Ike is wildly requested, would serve to advertise Fire Emblem: Goddess of Dawn and also featured in another FE game. Sigurd is popular and also widly requested, and supposedly Sakurai has a penchant for him. If anyone is following close behind, I´m afraid it´s the Black Knight.

And I wouldn´t be scared to include Marth, Ike and Sigurd in SSBB. Three blue-haired swordsmen, somebody save us. The characters all have potential for diversity and deserve their spot.

Rant over.

The obvious difference is that Jiggs and Kirby represented different series. If The Pokemon series had been represented soley by Jigglypuff, Wigglytuff and Chansy in Melee not only would it have been boring, but it would have failed to represent the diversity of Pokemon – but it would have caused non Pokemon fans to assume that the series consists entirely of Pink puff balls. It's the same deal with Ike, Marth and Sigurd – they aren't identical by any means but there are plenty of other more interesting characters to choose from.

Pikachu/Pichu and Mario/Luigi is a whole different argument because it makes sense for a unique character and his clone to be that similar. If two unique characters are to be included for the same series, they should not be as similar as Marth and Ike – in my view.

micaiah, maybe. when i played FE, i always overused wyvern knights and generals. both have low chances in brawl, as lords or main villains have the most chances. i can't see leon getting in, though he is my favorite villain (only when possessed, otherwise he sucks). that FE game was my favorite though. i personally hope for erika or ephraim, but ike is newer. i personally didn't like path of radiance as much. Lyn, Hector, and Eliwood. well, Eliwood was Roy's dad, but i didn't like him much. Hector was an axe wielding lord, but was slow and incompetent. . Lyn was the main lord, and was fast, which i liked. if anyone from that game makes it in, i think it should be lyn. Sigurd, i have never played his game, so i have no clue. as for the hair color argument, i agree that it is stupid. Pikachu and pichu are bothe yellow! OMFG. i just hope a fast magic wielder is in. sigh.

Actually there is one General who stands a good chance: the Balck Knight!

Let's see if I can do 40 this time.

Mario:
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Bowser Jr. (No Shadow Mario. Transformations aren't worth the effort.)

Pokemon:
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Meowth
Deoxys
Lucario

Zelda:
Link
Zelda
WW Link (Link clone)
Ganondorf
Wolf Link&Midna

Star Fox:
Fox
Falco
Wolf (Fox clone)
Krystal

Kirby:
Kirby
Metaknight
King Dedede

DK:
DK
Diddy Kong
King K. Rool (Bowser clone)

FE:
Marth
Ike
Black Knight (Never played any FE games, but looks **** cool to me.)

Metroid:
Samus/ZSS
Ridley
Dark Samus

F-Zero:
Captain Falcon
Samurai Goroh

Earthbound:
Ness
Lucas

WarioWare:
Wario

Yoshi:
Yoshi

Pikmin:
Captain Olimar

Kid Icarus:
Pit

Metal Gear:
Solid Snake

Sonic:
Sonic

Other:
Geno

I might do one or two things differently – I'm with JK1, this list is just about perfect. 10/10.

This whole ´list´ thing is kinda pointless...I mean, the rater is biased on who he wants for SSBB. Otherwise how do you judge?

Nevertheless, here´s another list I came up with.

Super Mario Bros.
01. Mario
02. Luigi (Mario clone)
03. Princess Peach
04. Bowser
05. Bowser Jr.

Yoshi
06. Yoshi

Donkey Kong
07. Donkey Kong
08. Diddy Kong

WarioWare
09. Wario

Kid Icarus
10. Pit

The Legend of Zelda
11. Link
12. Zelda
13. Ganondorf
14. Midna

Pikmin
15. Captain Olimar

Pokémon
16. Pikachu
17. Jigglypuff
18. Meowth
19. Deoxys

Kirby
20. Kirby
21. Metaknight
22. King Dedede

F-Zero
23. Captain Falcon

Earthbound / MOTHER
24. Lucas
25. Masked Boy

Punch-Out!!
26. Little Mac

Balloon Fight
27. Alice

Metroid
28. Samus
29. Zero-Suit Samus
30. Ridley

Fire Emblem
31. Marth
32. Ike
33. Sigurd (Marth clone)

Star Fox
34. Fox
35. Wolf (Fox clone)
36. Krystal

Panel de Pon
37. Lip

Sonic (THIRD PARTY - SEGA)
38. Sonic the Hedgehog

Castlevania (THIRD PARTY - KONAMI)
39. Simon Belmont

Metal Gear (THIRD PARTY - KONAMI)
40. Snake

Nintendo Wii
41. Mii

Forty-one characters with three clones.

I gave franchises fair representation. The flagship franchise gets five, the big ones get four, the highly recognizeable ones get three, the somewhat well-known ones get two and the obscure/retro ones get one.

Yeah we're all biased to a certain extent – but since this is for fun it's not really that big of a problem.

Aside from the FE roster, which I've been over, my only real problem is Lip. I just can't see the appeal.

It's a solid list, but it's hard to rate (in comparison to the others on this thread) because it falls outside the 40 Character Challenge (40 characters total, clones count for 1/3 of a character and transformations like Zamus count). 41 original and 3 clones is perfectly reasonable – but a 40 character limit just makes it easier to judge who's roster is better, and give an appropriate rating. However, this thread is still just for fun speculation – so you don't have to change anything.

That's a rap, gentleman. Forgive any moronic spelling or grammar errors, I'm pretty tired.


EDIT: I JUST SAW THE DOJO UPDATE!!! (one of the advantages of staying up until 4:00AM)

Spoiler

TP Zelda is confirmed! Which can only mean... SHIEK IS DEAD!!!)

 

[Chief Mendez]

^^^
Don't get your hopes up yet: it looks like Zelda's keeping her Melee moveset, so Sheik's still a valid option.

Also, I won't be here for the next month. So don't start concocting mad conspiracy theories about me when I stop posting anything.

MGS2 < MGS3

...Poor Otacon. Man does his life suck.

 

[Kunitsuna]

My list was...less than forty, I think. Since three of them were clones and each clone takes up one third of space? Anyway, I made this new list. Forty characters, no clones. Minimal changes otherwise.

Super Mario Bros.
01. Mario
02. Luigi
03. Princess Peach
04. Bowser
05. Bowser Jr.

Yoshi
06. Yoshi

Donkey Kong
07. Donkey Kong
08. Diddy Kong

WarioWare
09. Wario

Kid Icarus
10. Pit

The Legend of Zelda
11. Link
12. Zelda
13. Ganondorf
14. Midna

Pikmin
15. Captain Olimar

Pokémon
16. Pikachu
17. Jigglypuff
18. Meowth
19. Deoxys

Kirby
20. Kirby
21. Metaknight
22. King Dedede

F-Zero
23. Captain Falcon

Earthbound / MOTHER
24. Lucas
25. Masked Boy

Punch-Out!!
26. Little Mac (NES)

Balloon Fight
27. Alice

Metroid
28. Samus
29. Zero-Suit Samus
30. Ridley

Fire Emblem
31. Ike
32. Sigurd
33. Black Knight

Star Fox
34. Fox
35. Wolf
36. Krystal

Animal Crossing
37. Tom Nook (Because--I´ll admit it--he deserves it more than Lip)

Sonic (THIRD PARTY - SEGA)
38. Sonic the Hedgehog

Castlevania (THIRD PARTY - KONAMI)
39. Simon Belmont

Metal Gear (THIRD PARTY - KONAMI)
40. Snake

And yes--if Sheik´s demise was confirmed, I would be quite happy. But Sakurai is an unpredictable man. He might go with the transformation mechanic anyway.

 

[Phaazoid]

originally posted by : Wiseguy
"Actually there is one General who stands a good chance: the Balck Knight!"
really? he's a general? geeze, its been ages since i played path of radiance, but forgetting the main villains class? i'll have to beat it again this week.
@wiseguy
i will laugh in your face if tomorrow's update is "Shiek"

(my quote is wierd because it takes too long to delete the stuff i don't want in your message, mr. wall of pain.)

 

[Wasserman]

Wiseguy you must be feeling pretty good right now. A new character is finally added and not only is it one that you predicted but she appears to similar to your described; twilight style with no Sheik.

This thread ftw!

 

[Wiseguy]

^^^
Don't get your hopes up yet: it looks like Zelda's keeping her Melee moveset, so Sheik's still a valid option.

Also, I won't be here for the next month. So don't start concocting mad conspiracy theories about me when I stop posting anything.

MGS2 < MGS3

...Poor Otacon. Man does his life suck.

We don't know whether or not Zelda keeps her old moveset. One of her poses in the sceenshots shows a pose similar to the one she makes when preforming Din's Fire - but for all we know kept the old pose for a completely new magic attack.

EDIT: Later Mendez. Hopfully when you return, more of the roster will be revealed in at E3 in the form of a new trailer

My list was...less than forty, I think. Since three of them were clones and each clone takes up one third of space? Anyway, I made this new list. Forty characters, no clones. Minimal changes otherwise.

Super Mario Bros.
01. Mario
02. Luigi
03. Princess Peach
04. Bowser
05. Bowser Jr.

Yoshi
06. Yoshi

Donkey Kong
07. Donkey Kong
08. Diddy Kong

WarioWare
09. Wario

Kid Icarus
10. Pit

The Legend of Zelda
11. Link
12. Zelda
13. Ganondorf
14. Midna

Pikmin
15. Captain Olimar

Pokémon
16. Pikachu
17. Jigglypuff
18. Meowth
19. Deoxys

Kirby
20. Kirby
21. Metaknight
22. King Dedede

F-Zero
23. Captain Falcon

Earthbound / MOTHER
24. Lucas
25. Masked Boy

Punch-Out!!
26. Little Mac (NES)

Balloon Fight
27. Alice

Metroid
28. Samus
29. Zero-Suit Samus
30. Ridley

Fire Emblem
31. Ike
32. Sigurd
33. Black Knight

Star Fox
34. Fox
35. Wolf
36. Krystal

Animal Crossing
37. Tom Nook (Because--I´ll admit it--he deserves it more than Lip)

Sonic (THIRD PARTY - SEGA)
38. Sonic the Hedgehog

Castlevania (THIRD PARTY - KONAMI)
39. Simon Belmont

Metal Gear (THIRD PARTY - KONAMI)
40. Snake

And yes--if Sheik´s demise was confirmed, I would be quite happy. But Sakurai is an unpredictable man. He might go with the transformation mechanic anyway.

ACK! That's what I get for posting at 4:00 AM. Your original list did follow the rules - but when I read "41 characters with 3 clones" I thought you meant 3 clones in ddition to 41 originals. My bad.

I rate your original list as a 8.4 and your new list a 8.7 for the inclusion of Tom Nook and the Black Knight. Well done sir.

originally posted by : Wiseguy
"Actually there is one General who stands a good chance: the Balck Knight!"
really? he's a general? geeze, its been ages since i played path of radiance, but forgetting the main villains class? i'll have to beat it again this week.
@wiseguy
i will laugh in your face if tomorrow's update is "Shiek"

(my quote is wierd because it takes too long to delete the stuff i don't want in your message, mr. wall of pain.)

I'll tell you what, let's have a little bet. If Sheik is confirmed for Brawl (which she WON'T be) I'll not only let you laugh in my face, but I'll use a Sheik sig for a whole month. Likewise, however, if Zelda's down-B is revelaed to be anything other than a Sheik transformation you have to use a sig with Wind Waker Link for an entire month. Fair?

Wiseguy you must be feeling pretty good right now. A new character is finally added and not only is it one that you predicted but she appears to similar to your described; twilight style with no Sheik.

This thread ftw!

I am pretty pleased, to be honest - though I was hardly the only one to make that prediction. Thanks, though.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Again, it's not so simple. If they have time to create three unique FE character – then I agree that Marth, Ike and Miciaiah is very likely. But if they get pressed for time, and have to include one clone, then it seems more likely that they will include BK and drop the least essential of the characters: Marth.

They could simply use Marth's old moveset. It may not be as fast as the copy and paste method for cloning the Black Knight, but they would also have to give him a specific weight, fallspeed, attack speed, power, ect. Why even bother when they could just take Marth and use his already made stats. They could just tweak a few things and you'd have a great returning character.

He is one of the more often used Melee characters – BUT since his game hasn't been released outside Japan they know only the most basic facts about the character (ie: he starred in the first FE game, something about avenging his sister...). Thus they could have included any “graceful” sword fighter in his place and he would have been just as popular outside Japan. Sorry Marth, but they only love you for your huge, cheap sword.

The thing is, they didn't put another graceful swordsman. They put Marth, and by doing so they gave HIM a very large fan base. If they hadn't put Marth, then we wouldn't be talking about this. Taking him out is a much different case than not putting him in. NOW he is an established character. Melee revived a lot of his long forgotten fans and made plenty new ones.

Yes the huge sword helps, but that's not the reason we like him so much. We like him because his moves are very flowing. Every one of his moves is like a pose with precision and poise. And his range is not something that is impossible to get around. Fox, Falco, Falcon, Shiek, Samus, ect. can easily deal with his range, whether it be with raw speed or a strong projectile.

At the moment, Marth is still much more popular than the Black Knight and Miciaiah, so taking him out and replacing him with an unknown character would dissapoint a lot of his fans.

Conclusion: Marth's WAS signifiacant enough to the FE series to represent it in a single instalment in Smash Bros, but given that he is pretty much a dead character outside of Melee he is not worthy of appearing in a second. There are a wealth of other more unique FE characters from games that are popular around the world and not just in Japan

Though he may be a dead character outside of melee, he is a very popular melee character. He is one of the MOST popular melee characters and, with Melee being such a successful game, already represents FE. Everybody who knows who Marth is knows he's from FE. Everybody who plays melee knows who Marth is. That means Marth is known by an extremely large amount of melee fans and to them, he IS FE.

Conclusion: Marth IS significant enough to the FE series to represent it again, due to his impact on it by appearing in Melee.

 

[Copperpot]

Yeah, it's not exactly hard to guess whether Zelda was going to be in or not. It's almost like predicting that Mario was going to be in the game.

 

[Wiseguy]

They could simply use Marth's old moveset. It may not be as fast as the copy and paste method for cloning the Black Knight, but they would also have to give him a specific weight, fallspeed, attack speed, power, ect. Why even bother when they could just take Marth and use his already made stats. They could just tweak a few things and you'd have a great returning character.

Well, the most obvious answer is because Marth's "already made stats" make him a pretty broken character. If he were to be included, he would have to be nerfed drastically, so he may be just as time consuming to include as a completely new character.

The thing is, they didn't put another graceful swordsman. They put Marth, and by doing so they gave HIM a very large fan base. If they hadn't put Marth, then we wouldn't be talking about this. Taking him out is a much different case than not putting him in. NOW he is an established character. Melee revived a lot of his long forgotten fans and made plenty new ones.

Call me crazy, but I don't think being a popular fighter justifies a return appearance. This is because ANY character with a powerful moveset will automatically become very popular. If Marth returns, and is no longer as stupidly overpowered, most of his so called "fans" will simply play as another character.

In my view, in order for a character to be worthy of facing off against videogame legends like Mario, Link and Solid Snake they have to be judjed based on their importance in videogames OUTSIDE Smash Bros.

Yes the huge sword helps, but that's not the reason we like him so much. We like him because his moves are very flowing. Every one of his moves is like a pose with precision and poise. And his range is not something that is impossible to get around. Fox, Falco, Falcon, Shiek, Samus, ect. can easily deal with his range, whether it be with raw speed or a strong projectile.

We can still have swordfighters with "flowing" movesets (ie: Pit, Metakinght, Simon Belmont etc.) but they should be first and foremost be a worthy representative of their series of origin. And Marth isn't.

At the moment, Marth is still much more popular than the Black Knight and Miciaiah, so taking him out and replacing him with an unknown character would dissapoint a lot of his fans.

Yes but, quite frankly, they'll get over it. Marth and Roy aslo started out as unknown characters as well (at least outside Japan) but now they are very well known. ANY Fire Emblem character has the potential to be a fun and popular fighter, so why not choose characters who are unique and currently relevant to the Fire Embelm franchise?

Though he may be a dead character outside of melee, he is a very popular melee character. He is one of the MOST popular melee characters and, with Melee being such a successful game, already represents FE. Everybody who knows who Marth is knows he's from FE. Everybody who plays melee knows who Marth is. That means Marth is known by an extremely large amount of melee fans and to them, he IS FE.

It's not Marth that's popular - it's his moveset that everyone loves. So, why not take a similar character like Ike (who IS a worthy representative of his series) and make his moveset similar to Marth's. Just make him a tad slower (to contrast with speedy swordfighters like Meta and Pit) change his vertical slashes to horizontal ones and make his B a ranged energy attack. That way, we'd have a Marth replacement who is popular among Fire Embelm fans around the world and still appealing to Marth players.

Also, Marth is no more well known to Melee fans than Roy is. The only reason people assume that Marth stands a better chance of returning is becuase he has a more powerful moveset.

Conclusion: Marth IS significant enough to the FE series to represent it again, due to his impact on it by appearing in Melee.

Marth's role was always as a representative of the Fire emblem series - not as a unique character designed specifically for Melee. Therefore, it is soley on his importance to the Fire emblem series that Marth should be judged.

Yeah, it's not exactly hard to guess whether Zelda was going to be in or not. It's almost like predicting that Mario was going to be in the game.

Check out my next prediction:

Spoiler

DonkeyKong

Call me crazy, but I have this hunch...

 

[Copperpot]

Check out my next prediction:

Spoiler

DonkeyKong

Call me crazy, but I have this hunch...

Watch. Just to spite you, Sakurai's going to 'accidentally' omit him from Brawl.

 

[Phaazoid]

@wiseguy
ok, but whoever wins get to choose the other persons sig (but it can only be either ww link or shiek)
and if zelda's down b ends up not being shiek, but shiek is confirmed, i still win. fair?
(if you agree, i automatically take the bet)

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

*Sees update*

Yay... Now all we need is Ganondorf and Wolf Link/Midna and the Zelda franchise is set.

 

[Phaazoid]

i seriously doubt wolf link/midna. at most, midna, but i still want skull kid instead.

 

[Smady]

I'm going to concoct a prediction list. It's been a while...