Prediction Tier List.

[KaShank]

The only credibility I can establish is that I have played this game a lot and am fairly descent at it.

A. I realize that the Metagame isn’t even close to being developed. So many of the characters that are higher could just be characters that are easier to pick up.
B. If you believe a certain character should be higher or lower understand that many of the characters I have hardly fought and at that weren’t played at the highest Metagame or anywhere close to it.

Both of these will skew my results immensely. So why even bother? Mostly I was bored, and wondered where I stood at many of the characters. I do believe I give a fairly loose outline to what’s being developed right now.

I realize that there is already an official tier list discussion, but its quite large and I don’t agree with the direction that it went in. I’m starting with a fairly loose outline so at least there can be some direction. What I want is a good list of pros and cons over the characters to possibly help understand the characters attributes and how they can be used. Please feel free to state why characters belong where they do, but explain the reasoning why and try to be thorough in your character explanation.

Top Tier
Toon Link
Wolf

High Tier
Diddy Kong
Pikmin & Olimar
Pit
Marth
Lucario
Mr. Game & Watch
Ike
Meta Knight

Mid Tier
R.O.B.
King Dedede
Zero Suit Samus
Sheik
Squirtle
Mario
Falco Lombardi
Lucas
Luigi
Fox McCloud

Low Tier
Charizard
Captain Falcon
Yoshi
Kirby
Wario
Princess Zelda
Ice Climbers
Jigglypuff
Pikachu
Ivysaur
Samus Aran
Princess Peach
Ganondorf
Solid Snake
Sonic the Hedgehog

Bottom Tier
Ness
Donkey Kong
Link
Bowser

I have been maining Pit and that is why I wrote his attributes for him.
Pit
Pros.
A. His projectiles are versatile and prevent many campers. These are one of his best selling points.
B. He has great aerials. His Bair has a lot of power behind it. His Fair can be used for comboing.
C. Recovery is one of the best is good and allows him to be more maneuverable with his attacks.
Cons
A. Multiple air dodges allows for his aerials to be less effective and can diminish his combo-ability.
B. His recovery is slow and predictable. It can easily be punished and I believe when the Metagame is fully developed will almost always be.
Summery: Pit has a lot more power than many people give him credit for. He is versatile in use but ultimately I believe that people will learn to punish Pit more leading him to fall below top tier.

Please keep the comments relevant and constructive.
I will try to keep track of the character explanations.

 

[Smarties]

I do like this tier list, I like it quite a bit. My only problem is the Low Tier. WAY too many characters in it. I think Yoshi should be moved down, Ness should be moved up, and the Ice CLimbers, Snake, Sonic, Charizard, Ivysaur, and Kirby should be moved up to at least Middle Tier. They are pretty good in the right hands (as all characters are.)

 

[WFL]

Looks okay. I haven't played the game enough to rank every single character, but from playing against DK a lot I would have to say he's near the top of the low tier and not 3rd worst in the game. Oh and charizard could be middle tier, but it really doesn't matter.

 

[-Linko-]

WARNING: FLAMERS APPROACHING!!

Oh, and Solid Snake is officialy Top Tier Just that you know.

 

[wakka444]

theres a tier list discussion thread>_>
EDIT:Flame

 

[hoopspr226]

LOL Ganondorf higher than Snake! ROFL

No one person's tier list deserves its own thread when there's already a huge one for everyone else to post their lists. What makes yours so special, eh?

Certainly not the quality, judging by that horrible placement.

This thread is going to get locked.

 

[TheKingofDes]

My Secondary character is higher than my main XD maybe i should get better with Mr. Game & Watch

 

[KaShank]

Sigh, no one actually read my whole post.

I didn't say I was the end all be all. This topic was supposed to give a better perspective on the characters. I stated that if you believed a character belongs in a different place that that is great and to state why with a thorough analysis or at least some reasoning.

 

[5ive]

Pikachu should atleast be in Mid Tier <_<

 

[Master Peach]

Ok I'm really getting sick of this. Why do people always feel that Peach is crap. Listen I main Peach, and I'm not saying this for Favoritism, I'm honestly speaking, Peach is High Tier Some where near Top. If you still say that I'm saying this under favoritism, I main Pit as Well. I feel Pit is Better than Peach and is a top Tier.

But back to the Point. Peach is no where near Low or Bottom Tier. I wish people would realize that. Most People say that peach is crap because they don't play as seriously as other Peach Mainers, so they can't understand how Good and complex Peach is.

I really wish People would stop underestimating Peach. She's a Good character with a lot of Potential.


Peach Pros and Cons

Pros:

Peach has great Recovery.
Her survival rate is great
Her attack are strong
She has combo Potential
She has good defense
Can camp easily
Moves are fast and effective
A lot of ATs.

Cons:

Too Floaty
Bit slow in the air
Ground lag
Can get comboed easily (Marth)
soncond jump Sucks
Up smash Leads to her death.

 

[Dustero]

I think Falco should be at LEAST high tier. Falco can easily stand up to any of those characters. I have fought mainers of most of those high tier characters and Falco is evenly matched with them.

Pros:
Good camper
Still his a killer dair.
His horizontal recovery is unreal.
His reflector is very useful for spacing.
Foward smash as tramendous range.

Cons:
His vertical recovery sucks.
Can easily be koed by opponent grabbing ledge when has to B> to recover.
Most of his kill moves are also his moves that are used to rack up damage. With Brawl's new mechanic in which spammed moves lose power, Falco's moves that you use to rack up damge that are also kill moves, wont' kill once the opponent has high damage.

These are the things that I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more for both Pros. and Cons.

Also I'm not sure about other characters. Falco's my main with Ike as second and Mario as third. Mario might be mid-tier, but I don't play him enough to be sure.

 

[PredictablyStubborn]

I have an issue with the way you SPLIT the 3 pokemon.

I use all 3 at once. It's seriously the best way to use PT (as well as the way they force you to use him). i.e., Ivysaur dies easily, so you switch to Charizard. You just KO'd your opponent with Charizard and you need to be evasive, switch to Squirtle. X is an issue, switch to w/e.

I main PT, and I have never found it necessary to counter pick my opponent's character to win. If I have a pokemon that doesn't have enough options against character X, I'll just cycle past him.

 

[Umpy]

Wolf can get ganked too easily. why is he top tier? and why toon link up there, one again recovery can be ganked. MK is top, Olimar is top, Diddy is Top, sand so is prolly Snkae and Marth.

 

[redgreenblue]

Hmm... I don't agree with Bowser's positioning. He should be Low tier at LEAST.

 

[BANSHI]

there are no tiers in brawl

 

[dinsfire]

why is zelda low tier that is totally wrong........

 

[JT_productions829]

there are no tiers in brawl

You could at least give a reason why there are no tiers for Brawl. There is also another thread for "no tiers for Brawl." Like many other people already said, if characters have different movesets, then there are tiers...

And about the tier list; overall, I would say it is pretty good. Even if a main TL, I do not think he should be top of the list. He has a noticably short range and is rather light compared to some others. I guess the same is similar to Diddy, but I don't play him that much. I think Marth can be placed a little bit higher as well. Marth seems (in my opinion) to be quite good and maybe even better than in Melee.

 

[NessOnett]

WARNING: Wall of Text Approaching!

Okay, it seems like nobody ever says anything about Ness. But since i am a Ness main, i think i'll tackle this one. I have dozens of hours of hands-on experience against a multitude of enemies with varying stretegies. I have watched nearly every single Ness video on the internet up until this point(hundreds). I have seen amateurs and professionals, everyone in between, and computers of all levels play against every single other character there is. Most players when making their "tier lists" have not even considered Ness, and just assume he is low tier because they don't care about him and assume he is because of how poorly he played in melee.

Ness is possibly one of the most improved characters since melee(perhaps beaten by G&W). From all the videos i have seen, in 4p-FFAs with decent players, he has done equal to most if not all characters, overshadowing many of the "weaker" ones by a LOT. In 3p-FFAs he has over 75% win record thus far in my experience. He is nearly always the higher-scoring member in team battles, and usually causes a win for his side. None of this matters though, what matters is the 1v1, right? The tournament standard that the entire tier list is based upon. He has won well over half of his fights. Mind you because everyone wants to use the best, he has won over half his fights playing the likes of Marth, ToonLink, Diddy, and others that are vying for that "top-tier" status.(and yes, many many matches against Lucas as well). So by doing better in 1v1s than those characters, why is he automatically resigned to him previous(bottom) placing? On a personal note, i have yet to lose a 1v1 match against any character thus far with Ness.(at least not when items are off).

You want to know now what's improved on him? well that's a long list, but i have some time on my hands. First and foremost, Brawl is NOT Melee. Anyone who has played it has said the same general things, "floatier," "slower," etc. This is great news for Ness, he is an aerial fighter, and the new physics of the game has turned him into what many players think is the best aerial comboer of the game. His yoyos...they do things now, they are faster than their 64 counterparts by a little bit, and far stronger than the melee ones. His d-tilt is still fast and spammable in close-quarters and now "sweeps" the enemy off their feet so they fall over.
His grab range has gotten boosted a little bit, and his still has his trademarked amazing throws(his b-throw is a little worse, but that's because people live longer in brawl; but his u-throw can kill people vertically very well at medium-high percentages). His d-air, it's much like the one from 64, the one that made him awesome. His magnet comes out faster making it a viable defensive move now. The flash is like lightning coming out(though still slow on buildup and hard to control). Fire is a wee bit faster shooting and more power is in the pillar as well as it being harder to get out of. But Thunder, his best known move, it has been buffed to craziness. It travels nearly twice as fast and the one in melee, and has less lag at the end. It has a tighter turning radius making it chase easier and mindgame better. The dreaded tail, which was a beastly edgeguard if used properly is about 3-4 times as long as the one from melee, and still drops them like a rock with no new ^B. PKT2(where he hits himself for those of you not familiar with Ness) is a lot easier to pull off, a lot harder to see coming, a lot faster coming out, a lot less lag afterwards, and one of the strongest killing moves in the game with huge knockback, killing heavies off the sides at under 50% from middle of FD.

I apologize to all the Ness-mains if i missed anything, but all-in-all he looks so much better than melee and now seems to be viable in tournaments.(now i guess people won't feel so bad when i win with him XD). But i just question all of you as to why with all these improvements, with such a good track record, does nobody see his potential and all immediately put him in the bottom. I am not by any means saying he is the best in the game, and i know he is hard to get used to and control, but from a meta-game standpoint he deserves at least a middle-high spot if not above that.

 

[Sinistar]

Ness on the bottom.


I swear I lol'd.

 

[BANSHI]

You could at least give a reason why there are no tiers for Brawl. There is also another thread for "no tiers for Brawl." Like many other people already said, if characters have different movesets, then there are tiers...

And about the tier list; overall, I would say it is pretty good. Even if a main TL, I do not think he should be top of the list. He has a noticably short range and is rather light compared to some others. I guess the same is similar to Diddy, but I don't play him that much. I think Marth can be placed a little bit higher as well. Marth seems (in my opinion) to be quite good and maybe even better than in Melee.

because simply put tiers rank characters in terms of who's better, i just dont think that any character in the game is better than any other character right now
they all have pros and cons

 

[Taymond]

I have an issue with the way you SPLIT the 3 pokemon.

I use all 3 at once. It's seriously the best way to use PT (as well as the way they force you to use him). i.e., Ivysaur dies easily, so you switch to Charizard. You just KO'd your opponent with Charizard and you need to be evasive, switch to Squirtle. X is an issue, switch to w/e.

I main PT, and I have never found it necessary to counter pick my opponent's character to win. If I have a pokemon that doesn't have enough options against character X, I'll just cycle past him.

There is significant precedent in this area to justify listing each separately. In Melee, Shiek and Zelda were placed separately in the tierlist, and for good reason, as Shiek's options far outmatched Zelda's. With PT, there are clear distinctions between the ability of the pokemon. Even though you are forced to change pokemon upon death, you can choose between them freely enough that they should be listed separately.

To put it simply, they don't rank the same. Squirtle shouldn't be brought down on the tierlist because of Ivysaur.


To OP, while a fair amount of your picks fall at least in the right general area, I think there's little doubt that you have misjudged several characters, presumably ones you do not play. Among these: Ness, Snake, Peach, Bowser, Pikachu, and Zelda for sure. I also have not looked into how the ICs changed from Melee to Brawl, but I have little doubt you have misjudged them, also.

 

[NessOnett]

To put it simply, they don't rank the same. Squirtle shouldn't be brought down on the tierlist because of Ivysaur.

You are right, if you linked all the PT's pokemon as one, then Squirtle would be brought UP by Ivysaur. Ivysaur >> Squirtle >>>>> Charizard(for now). But With Sh/elda from melee, it was not necessary to use both, with PT it is because they get tired after 2 mins. so i'm not sure if they can really be completely split up unless people want to use the weakened versions.

 

[Taymond]

To NessOnett, I apologize if I got their perceived order wrong. I haven't put much research into PT, I thought I recalled that Squirtle was the most promising. Thanks for correcting me.

That said, I understand that the situation is different, and you may be right about the inability to truly separate them. The tier list is reinforced by tournament results, and in a realistic situation, a player has to use more than just 1 of them, for sure, so it would be difficult to attribute a tourney placement to any one pokemon.

On the other hand, to me at least, it seems like the tier list is abstract enough that we ought to be able to objectively place each one, by how they can individually perform at peak. While it might not be practical, as far as data alone, it could still be accurate. Perhaps both cases should be done, ranking PT as a whole, and the pokemon individually.

In any case, the decision is of course not mine to make, and these are just my own opinions. I see your point, but I'm reluctant to relinquish mine, as well.

 

[The_Smash_Champ]

Why are Ic's Bottom? lol with their chain grabs they destroy most characters. I would agree with Wolf being high tier but not top, his F-smash has such long range, however he is actually one of the few characters that can be edge hogged. Meta knight should be higher, he hould be almost top meta's d-smash is fast as hell and kills quickly.

 

[The_Smash_Champ]

Why are Ic's Bottom? lol with their chain grabs they destroy most characters. I would agree with Wolf being high tier but not top, his F-smash has such long range, however he is actually one of the few characters that can be edge hogged. Meta knight should be higher, he hould be almost top meta's d-smash is fast as hell and kills quickly.

 

[Nintendo_lord]

I don't think that it is great, but the main body is similar to what a tier list for brawl would probably be like, however but I would say there are 7 things that are really wrong, and yes certain characters are actually much better in the hands of higher level players so they should be higher; not the easier to play as characters. There were some other things that were incorrect, but this was the most major stuff, otherwise the list ok.

1. There is no way that Toon Link is top tier; more like high middle tier. Lets face it: though his D-smash is great and he has some nice projectile fake outs, TL really isn't powerful or quick enough to outsmart and destroy his opponents. His arrow/boomarang twin set can be dodged fairly easily and he really isn't that good at comboing.

2. Snake is amazingly good with projectiles; high middle tier/low high tier. He is the master of projectiles, very hard to KO due to weight and recovery (which provides protection against most flinching), and pretty good at close combat.

3. Marth is great; probably high high tier or low top tier. His weakness to campy, projectile spamming characters stinks, but he is one of the few real comboers and his aerials are incredible. Marth dittos are monotonous however, and require little strategy (fair, fair, fair, etc.), but other than that, he is great.

4. Falco is no where near middle tier, more like close to the top high tier. His shdl can get approaching aerial characters and he is incredible at close range combat too.

5. Ike is the slowest character in the game, and although he is strong, easy to dodge at high level and outwitted easily. Also, his recovery is terrible, probably middle tier..

6. Sonic can attack and approach very quickly, if he is the bottom of low tier, Wolf may as well be worse than Bowser. Sonic can quickly attack and his dash is insane (I believe with a bunnyhood and giant mode, faster than the Big Blue cars), perfect for approaching quickly.

7. Game and Watch isn't high tier material if some of those other names didn't make it. Seriously, Meta Knight and Jigglypuff both are lower than G&W and can kill half of the people higher than them including the ink blob.

 

[doyoung2win]

this list sucks *** and everyone in this thread has posted to support this fact

btw zelda has no bad moves and has one of if not the best projectile, strong tilts and smashes with lots of priority. PLUS a toe that can be traded for the opposite aerial to keep knockback and damage.

stupid...

 

[Taso]

So basically you picked up every character that you don't use, or that a computer can't beat you with, and moved them to low/bottom tier...

Nice.

Yeah. There are enough problems with this list that I won't even try to go into detail suffice it to say that many people before me have made the point and I don't need to.

Zelda's the one I'm really angry about though.

She is high to top tier and I'm going to main her at a tournament this week wherein I will win $50. It's not a prediction but a fact.

Beyond the quality of the list(or lack thereof) there IS a sticky for this kind of thing...

 

[Mullet_Power]

I'm sorry but until we have a good amount of tourney stats (proof) these tier list are gonna be correct in everyones eyes, so making a topic is pointless since almost no one will agree.

But I agree with everyone saying PT should not have his Pokemon split. Just going by every PT video I have ever seen, the players that use more then 1 Pokemon preform waaaaay better then the solo Pokemon people. No matter witch one is "better" they all play a part to PT's success.

 

[Bocks]

Lol@ Zelda And Snake

 

[CodeytheRhino]

I like how TL is in your top tier, but it's not really evenly balanced. 2 ppl in the top and many more in the low tier,

 

[Fabrian]

wtf yoshi is a combo beast in this game...

 

[Lovage 805]

LOLLLL snake low tier, please, don't try to make a tier list if you have no idea how this game works, this goes for everyone

 

[k4polo]

I wouldn't worry too much on the tiers. Just get better at what character you have. From the amount of tourney vids I seen. The gap between mid tier and top tier is not gonna be quite as big this time around. Mid tier will probably have huge success in tourneys.

 

[Chrono Centaur]

Bowser Mid-High Tier. Side-B basically spells out his whole metagame.

 

[Ballistaboy]

Lucas needs to be moved to High tier, his attacks are really strong, he has pretty good jumps, his PKT can't be gimped, b-sticking ftw

 

[suzuki brawl]

zelda low tier????

 

[Super Wec]

whats wrong with you, sonic a low tier?

 

[Frey]

I dont see Dedede in high tier, even though he can chain grab 2/3rds of the characters, I think he should be in the middle of the high tier.

 

[IceAge]

I cannot believe how you kids are reacting to this, how about you give some constructive criticism? Instead of taking this tier list as a personal shot at you, take it as just one guy’s opinion. This is truly ridicules at how you guys are reacting, actually insulting the person who made the list. He put the characters where he thought they should go, and even said in his beginning post “If you believe a certain character should be higher or lower understand that many of the characters I have hardly fought… ect”

I don’t like how he put Ice Climbers and Wario near the bottom of the list, but notice how I’m not going to flip off my rocker? Rather then acting like doyoung2win (Not to pick on you personally, you were the first I saw who really stood out) I won't personally insult the list cause of one or two placements.