PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Rocketpowerchill]

lol, how do i get better at dding
not that im wanting to get zhu dding but i want to be like cactuar and jman. how do you be good at dding
should i always be dding
wtf does being good at dding even mean lmao

 

[Dr Peepee]

so hard to explain =(

don't DD to just do it. Like, you know how you always think of what MOVES you should do? Nair vs Dair and all that? Consider DD'ing vs walking or FH'ing or WD'ing similarly. Evaluate their pros and cons. Look at how other people use them. Use these things to help you make a decision.

Oh and, taking this farther, you should think about what you want to do with each dash. One dash isn't a DD.

I suggest considering some frames and what your options are out of each movement option(ie what you can do out of a dash[dance], walking, FH'ing, etc)

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

ok this is kind of a noob question but its towards running -> dsmash
u know how u can just run and upsmash
well does that work the same or do you have to specifically cancel your dash and then input a dsmash cuz im not trying to look like a n00b out there when punishing these ****** shiek mains

 

[Dr Peepee]

You have to cancel your run to Dsmash by holding down(this is after your dash has ended), while you can Usmash at any point in your dash or run.

 

[Bones0]

You have to either wait for your dash to end or get into a full run and hold down to run cancel. I think WDing into the dsmash is faster than either of those, though.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

thanks cuz ive been missing punishes for this reason ill start wding to get positioned for that shieks death

 

[MrDizzle]

Went to my first real tournament today and got my ass kicked XD Anyways I noticed I tend to get owned very consistently when my opponent is below me and I'm trying to get back down to the ground. Any thoughts on landing safely?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Don't always fast fall

laser vs Dair mixup

if you're on a platform, don't freak out

 

[Bones0]

Learn to tilt your shield down and buffer FHs OoS with the C-stick during shield stun if you have to shield an attack on a platform.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Sometimes you can just land, too. Messes with people who are looking to punish something.

 

[Bones0]

There's no point in landing without a laser unless you are going to WL (which is really good, so by all means do that too).

 

[KP17]

what are good things to do out of laser stun in the ditto? specifically when the other falco is in shffl dair / nair range upon landing? if im caught out of my jump i like to dj wl onto a side plat, or sometimes i waveland back and react to their next move or waveland towards and pray my shine hits.
if im hit while on the ground i like to buffer roll or full hop, wd forwards or back, or shield. maybe sh forwards or back to wavelands or a punish if the spacing is correct would work? i know after the laser i can jab ftilt or turnaround uptilt, maybe grab?
However i feel like no matter what i do, i am always going to get hit if a laser is shot at me from that spacing. what are the best options out the above? or any others?

 

[Bones0]

I think you can usually avoid getting hit by laser -> aerial by rolling. I'm interested in some better ideas if anyone has any. I almost always just buffer shield and work off of whatever aerial they do. Maybe you can throw out a usmash to scoop them out of their SHFFL? I don't like options like that because if they just DD you get annihilated.

 

[genkaku]

my dash dances improved a lot when I started thinking about it as a rhythmic as well as spatial tool.

 

[ElloEddy]

I timed out a Samus that cped me to Kongo Jungle last night. Easy mode.

Then I lost to the cheapest character in the game in grand finals (Luigi).

i hate samus .imma bout to start timing that charecter out to lol

 

[ElloEddy]

lol, how do i get better at dding
not that im wanting to get zhu dding but i want to be like cactuar and jman. how do you be good at dding
should i always be dding
wtf does being good at dding even mean lmao

DD comes with style ..how you read ppl and knowing the right spacing spacing ...

cause honestly most us new players DD and its useless cause we aren't thinking of the next step ... thats what the moon told me most ppl just DD and cant react and get punished etc

 

[Bones0]

i hate samus .imma bout to start timing that charecter out to lol

I don't mind playing Samus. Once you accept that you can't do traditional shield pressure outside of the occasional late aerial-shine-early fadeaway aerial, she's just a Peach with horizontal turnips that can't float. I beat him game 1 (then 2-0'd him in loser's) so I was pretty confident I could win regardless of the stage. I mostly just wanted to prove a point that KJ should be banned.

 

[whitemountain123]

All of this talk about DD-ing reminds me about some stuff that Mango and Cactuar were talking about on MIOM a few weeks ago (you can find most of the discussion around here: http://youtu.be/hCZ2QK3ot2c?t=1h23m40s). The differences between offensive and defensive DD-ing, dashing towards and away, etc. I can more easily conceptualize these differences with a character like fox or marth, but it's hard for me to see how to get this sort of mileage out of falco's DD.

Given falco's short DD, I've been thinking about two main ways for optimizing his DD. The first is integrating wds (and even empty sh->waveland) more often, but I often feel that I don't have quite the same control/speed to act as with dashing (is this just a matter of getting more character control or is there actually something to this?). The other is SHL's and using that as sort of an aerial DD, jumping in and out of ranges with lasers (and sometimes empty hops) and just more generally mixing up laser spacings, number of lasers before approaching, etc.

Obviously this is a somewhat basic start to understanding his movement mixups (I'm not even really considering vertical movement for instance), but I feel like I don't really understand this at a fundamental level.

Thoughts? Discuss?

 

[Bones0]

I think I may try only DDing with WDs next time I play to see when it is useful. So instead of dash left, dash right, repeat with varying lengths/timings, I would WD towards or away from the opponent, dash in the same direction of my WD, and then dash back in the opposite direction. Cactuar told me a while back on the Fox boards that DD/WDing in that way is the best because doing a quick DD instead of immediately dashing against the direction of your WD is faster because you don't end up fighting your WD momentum. I tried it out by tagging on an extra dash in situations where I wanted to WD, but perhaps there are situations that I DD in that I could add WDs prior just to go further and make it more convincing of a movement.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

does everyone input a dash after a wd
that was just natural for me to do that right from the start cuz it feels natural
and this isnt mentioned alot but tips on getting "near perfect" wding
i wanna wave dash just like pp, so quick and flawless, how do you get that marth movement with falco
i want aziz movement

wth does buffer mean, does that mean evading with a roll or jump while being abused?

 

[Bones0]

does everyone input a dash after a wd
that was just natural for me to do that right from the start cuz it feels natural
and this isnt mentioned alot but tips on getting "near perfect" wding
i wanna wave dash just like pp, so quick and flawless, how do you get that marth movement with falco
i want aziz movement

wth does buffer mean, does that mean evading with a roll or jump while being abused?

Buffer means the input happens on the first possible frame. If you press a direction on the C-stick during shield stun, you will roll, spot dodge, or jump on the first possible frame without having to time the input.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

Buffer means the input happens on the first possible frame. If you press a direction on the C-stick during shield stun, you will roll, spot dodge, or jump on the first possible frame without having to time the input.

so only with cstick can you roll, spot dodge or jump with the first possible frame?
should I be bufering rolls, what are scenarios where I need to do this?

 

[Bones0]

The control stick buffers rolls, spotdodges, and jumps, but only for 3 frames. The C-stick is easier, and you should just use it all the time in place of the control stick because at the very least it frees up your control stick to control shield tilting and DI.

 

[BTmoney]

so only with cstick can you roll, spot dodge or jump with the first possible frame?
should I be bufering rolls, what are scenarios where I need to do this?

You can roll while shield DI'ing
For every situation where you are rolling, it is in your best interest to get to the invincibility as fast as possible because you should really only be rolling so you don't get hit by things.

Buffering short hops OoS with the c-stick is also really good.

You might as well buffer every roll from now on because there literally is no downside. If you buffer a roll (hold the c-stick while shielding) while in shield stun you can escape soooooo many situations including shield pressure. Just try not to get predicted.


Like when I'm returning to stage and I have to firebird on to stage, while the fire animation is going towards the stage I'll hold L and as my opponent tries to chase me down to punish my landing I'll buffer or a roll/spot dodge/jump depending on where they are. It is either the 1st frame possible or the 2nd frame possible (which is still much faster than reacting or trying to time it yourself, it may be the 2nd frame because the shield will just barely barely begin to form for a split second before your buffered option comes out)

Get me? It's a good way to cover your recovery onto stage and I buffer every roll now. Took 20 minutes to get used to

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

going off of shielding and rolling and tilts, i was wondering about shield drops.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDhbNFzdEik
around 8:30 twina talks about shield drops
i was wondering what he means by tilt your shield at an angle. does he mean diagonally?
shield drops are pretty hard and was wondering how i should practice them considering its one of the hardest things to do consistently in this game

 

[genkaku]

on the topic of buffering, I've been replacing some of my dashes with a WD forward and purposefully inputting a dash too early so falco walks as soon as possible and faster than his dash anyway. I think this was mentioned a while ago but it's pretty great.

I don't think there are any extremely substantial tricks to shield dropping, you just have to practice a lot (in between stocks and stuff) and learn what feels good to you/your controller.
Bones, didn't you say that it's helpful to quarter circle to a 45 degree angle instead of down?

 

[BTmoney]

going off of shielding and rolling and tilts, i was wondering about shield drops.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDhbNFzdEik
around 8:30 twina talks about shield drops
i was wondering what he means by tilt your shield at an angle. does he mean diagonally?
shield drops are pretty hard and was wondering how i should practice them considering its one of the hardest things to do consistently in this game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLu5972oPZc

I do that and standing shield drops.

Rotating in a quarter circle (from the direction you are facing to down) makes it way easier
If you spot dodge or roll just do it a little slower then it's easy once you figure it out

I think you should also practice shield dropping out of shieldstun. I'm weak at that right now. That's when stuff gets insane esp with falco's vertical game and aerials

 

[ShroudedOne]

on the topic of buffering, I've been replacing some of my dashes with a WD forward and purposefully inputting a dash too early so falco walks as soon as possible and faster than his dash anyway. I think this was mentioned a while ago but it's pretty great.

I don't think there are any extremely substantial tricks to shield dropping, you just have to practice a lot (in between stocks and stuff) and learn what feels good to you/your controller.
Bones, didn't you say that it's helpful to quarter circle to a 45 degree angle instead of down?

This is actually false. Turns out his dash is just a tiny bit faster than his walk. His walk is still very fast for a walk, though.

 

[BTmoney]

Falco's walk accelerates faster than his run so you can get very small gains from using it in small distances. And yes he has a very fast walk

 

[Bones0]

Falco's walk accelerates faster than his run so you can get very small gains from using it in small distances. And yes he has a very fast walk

His dash definitely accelerates much faster than his walk... Otherwise we would walk dance instead of dash dance. lol

 

[oukd]

im sure that's more because of walk turnaround frames than acceleration

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

what do you mean quarter cirlce down, what do you do with the controller
and shield drop lazer on stuff like bottom platz on yoshis is sick

 

[Bones0]

You can't shield drop lasers on YS's side plats. I'd be surprised if it's even possible with TAS, but I will be shocked if anyone ever shows an ability to do it consistently. I have to focus really hard just to get them on BF, and when I do they are super low to the ground.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

You can't shield drop lasers on YS's side plats. I'd be surprised if it's even possible with TAS, but I will be shocked if anyone ever shows an ability to do it consistently. I have to focus really hard just to get them on BF, and when I do they are super low to the ground.

yea thought it couldnt be done lol, that would however be the most technical thing in the game
what can I do out of shield drops?

 

[ElloEddy]

You can't shield drop lasers on YS's side plats. I'd be surprised if it's even possible with TAS, but I will be shocked if anyone ever shows an ability to do it consistently. I have to focus really hard just to get them on BF, and when I do they are super low to the ground.

i tried to do this for like 15 min and its so hard seems impossible ...lol and probably only possible on TAS frame perfectness

 

[Voltz]

This thread moves in circles. XD

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

This thread moves in circles. XD

m2k moves in circles and grabs PP
#mindgames 2013

 

[Bones0]

yea thought it couldnt be done lol, that would however be the most technical thing in the game
what can I do out of shield drops?

You're in free fall.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

shield dropping from hitstun??? do you have to use cstick damn oos options on platforms have to be the hardest inputs

 

[Bones0]

Are you talking about shield dropping out of SHIELD stun? You input it the same, but it buffers for 3 frames (iirc). The C-stick is only for rolling, spot dodging, and jumping OoS. You can't shield drop with it.