*Pound* 4:: VGBootCamp Debut! Two days. Plank's sanity remaining: 50%

[pockyD]

How do I setup pools to magically save time? Put the players that I know won't take as long in them.

even if we set aside how preposterous your theory is (EVERYONE has to be put in a pool and play EVERYONE that's in their pool), you could've done the exact same thing for the 6man pool... therefore, there's no way a 7man pools is faster

 

[Lobos]

Chibo how many setups and players were at cot4?

 

[pockyD]

why are people even talking about 48 man brackets

we're going to have billions of setups, therefore there is no reason to do a 48 man bracket in place of a 64 man bracket because it literally will save no time

32 or 64 definitely

the reason plank cited for not wanting to do 64 is that it waters down 'bracket matches' a little bit, which he doesn't want

 

[CT Chia]

On this huge scale tourney, 32 bracket would be too unfairly small imo. 48 or 64, as long as it's bigger than 32. <.<

Yea, huge scale tourney so theres probably going to be 3 rounds of pools for melee and 2 for brawl lol. its perfectly fine to be a 32 person bracket after that many pools

Chibo how many setups and players were at cot4?

entrants for singles was between 240 and 250 iirc and TVs i wanna say 30 i think. ppl dropped the ball on bringing setups :/

 

[Mogwai]

why are people even talking about 48 man brackets

we're going to have billions of setups, therefore there is no reason to do a 48 man bracket in place of a 64 man bracket because it literally will save no time

32 or 64 definitely

the math just works out great for making a 48 man bracket. Pools of 6 are also a nice middle ground of not taking too long and still giving people their money's worth of tourney matches, and pools of 6 with 3 advancing goes to 48 man bracket.

48 man bracket saves the entirity of round 1 of losers, which is 16 matches and drops the potential for the entire losers bracket to get held up by a Peach/Samus player making a run through losers.

 

[Lobos]

So we are gonna have less players and more setups! plus an extra 8 hours since registration was done online LOL.....

In any case tant, talk to VGbootcamp since they have done pools before. I'm sure you guys + plank can work something out before this weekend.

 

[pockyD]

the math just works out great for making a 48 man bracket. Pools of 6 are also a nice middle ground of not taking too long and still giving people their money's worth of tourney matches, and pools of 6 with 3 advancing goes to 48 man bracket.

48 man bracket saves the entirity of round 1 of losers, which is 16 matches and drops the potential for the entire losers bracket to get held up by a Peach/Samus player making a run through losers.

it also saves 16 first round matches

though i mean if your tournament has 32 setups anyway, that basically amounts to 30-60 minutes

 

[Banks]

held up by a Peach/Samus player making a run through losers.

top tiers know whats up

 

[Dark Hart]

or we can find a way to get a 32 man bracket since that's what plank wants.

 

[Samochan]

Yea, huge scale tourney so theres probably going to be 3 rounds of pools for melee and 2 for brawl lol. its perfectly fine to be a 32 person bracket after that many pools

I mean, brackets get all the hype, some don't even bother much with pools and some pool matches prolly won't get recorded either cause well, pools. <.<

 

[CT Chia]

im sure a ton of pools matches will be recorded esp with ppl bringing their own recording stuff. i kno il record my entire pool for everyone (or atleast for the time that im there if i dont feel like sitting around for the rest of it :/ )

but freggin... ppl need to stop sandbagging in pools. for real. especially at a national where at least 50% of every pool is being eliminated each round.

 

[Rain(ame)]

Actually...there are a lot of hype players that might just miss making it out of pools. Plus...with so few people making it out, it's different. People CAN'T afford to sandbag. So Pools should get recorded for that fact alone. Do you see those names on the list? I see more than 32 players that know how to entertain and are amazing. There'll probably be a lot of hype going on around some of the matches in pools.

 

[Divinokage]

That makes sense I guess, and if we have to give byes I guess that is the most objective way to do it. Until I think of a better solution I guess I won't complain.



I don't think I'd be interested in another doubles tournament. A free for all tournament I think would be pretty cool. I know it'll create a problems if players team up and target specific players but I still think it'd be a whole lot of fun.

What makes you think you are eligible for that? You are NOT worthy. =P

Anyone down for a Fantasy Doubles Tournament at the hotel?
Nominate some of the best players to team, or make crazy combinations.

Some people I would like to see team (even though it would probably never happen)

Mango and M2K
HBox and Darc
Hax and Isai
Shiz and DrPeePee
SilentWolf and Eggm
DJNintendo and HMW

Hmmm... Not sure if everyone is gonna be willing to do that rofl. You realize you have to get everyone to come play and also youd have to organize it somehow.. lol.

Well I guess should clarify. When is ay nobody I mean that as in you don't have a notable reputation. If people know you but you're not worthy of being talked about then it's irrelevant in my opinion.

I am a real person. And you'll meet me a t Pound 4. Why would people think I'm someone's Atl? I'm not. I think you're just being bitter because I won't money match you. It's nothing personal dude.



Heh I guess I messed up. I feel kinda silly right now.

That would be called playing friendlies. As for me, I would play anyone that asks me to play some games, why not? Going to tournaments is having fun, enjoying a good time with friends.. getting crunk or drunk whatever. The tournament experience is much more than just the competition. (Even though of course I love it) Someone being worthy is completely irrelevant. I try to think of everyone at the same level, famous or not famous, who the **** cares. If you think reputation is everything then boy you are missing out.. and also, it makes you look like a weirdo.

VBM...I've got something to say:

Nobodies winning MM's against somebodies...makes them a somebody. I'm not trying to make an issue here...or insult you. However...if you happen to lose your MM against a nobody...that would tarnish your reputation, right? Perhaps....maybe you don't want that to happen? I don't blame you, xD. I'm JUST saying.

Rofl not really, MMs does not make you famous, you can MM or grudge MM matches vs anybody you want at all times as long as both agrees to play. What makes someone famous, I guess in general would be tournament placings since you only have a certain number of chances to beat opponents but you just keep on beating people until you win lol. I think character choice and personality helps too a little bit as well.

But you know why would anyone want to play an ******* anyways right? =P

 

[da K.I.D.]

I hope VBM is in a pool with chibo and Kage.

the most hated dude in the thread against the most liked person in smash, in a match that will definitely get recorded.

thats what I want to see right now.

 

[Divinokage]

I hope VBM is in a pool with chibo and Kage.

the most hated dude in the thread against the most liked person in smash, in a match that will definitely get recorded.

thats what I want to see right now.

Rofl, that would be quite funny, *looks at Plank*

 

[CT Chia]

I hope VBM is in a pool with chibo and Kage.

the most hated dude in the thread against the most liked person in smash, in a match that will definitely get recorded.

thats what I want to see right now.

lol perfect combo

in a chibo pool and ul be recorded

hell just put me + vbm + 4 of the best pros u can find in one pool, just so we can get 5 JV 5 stock sets recorded

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Oh **** son.... MW is gonna ****/

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

hypothetical 64 man bracket (in no particular order)
1. Mango
2. Armada
3. Amsah
4. Scar
5. Plank
6. Greg
7. DJN
8. spaceballs
9. swiftbass
10. eggm
11. lovage
12. zhu
13. remen
14. aniolas
15. Dr. PP
16. Tec0
17. Raistlin
18. SilentSpectre
19. Darc
20. Ka-master
21. PC Chris
22. Zgetto
23. HomeMadeWaffles
24. HugS
25. Darkrain
26. linguini
27. Hax
28. Phil
29. Drephen
30. Eggz
31. Xelic
32. Cactuar
33. G$
34. Hazz
35. Kels
36. Jman
37. kage
38. m2k
39. thumbswayup
40. wife
41. chu
42. DOH
43. vwins
44. Bam
45. PKMVodka
46. Shaeden
47. Everlastingyayuhz
48. HBK
49. Tope
50. lucky
51. shroomed
52. eddy mexico
53. vidjo
54. Taj
55. Watty
56. Mike G
57. TheCrimsonBlur
58. FullMetal
59. hungrybox
60. rockcrock
61. Chaddd
62. colbol
63. axe
64. Pakman

I probably forgot tons of people, but thats the basic idea (don't ***** at me if I forgot you lol). The question is whether there are really 16 people (48 v. 64 man bracket) on there that you really want to remove. Yeah, 1 or 2 might be iffy for making the bracket, but 16? I have a really hard time removing that many and being satisfied with the bracket. I dunno about you, but that 64 man brackets got me pretty hyped. I don't really understand why a 64 man bracket would be uncompetitive or uninteresting at all. 48 saves a little time I guess, but with that many TVs, who cares?

I know the math works out better to 48, but I don't really see why 64 isn't preferred if we could manage it. I mean, that way, the 3rd pools round won't be killer for a lot of really cool players. I wouldn't underestimate how much talent is coming to this tournament..

 

[pockyD]

there are plenty of people in there i'd be fine removing

at least 16 people, easily

at least 32 people, also a yes for sure... the issue is whether the whole pools process will remove the CORRECT (bottom) 16 or 32 people

the real problem is the stigma that not making it "out of pools" is somehow a huge slight... it's simply not

what's the point of putting someone into the bracket that you KNOW will be a 2-and-out? did you gain anything by including them instead of eliminating them during pools?

 

[The Cunning Weasel]

Like how this dude put Mango first. lol

 

[stelzig]

Well if so many people really want 64 then the most simple solution would be to just let 4th places also advance from third pool. But then more than half would advance which plank appearently doesn't like.

 

[CT Chia]

If Scar doesnt show, throw me on that list

I've got my missiles rdy

edit: just looking at a hypothetical 64 person bracket kind of makes me want a 32 person one a lot more, kind of like what plank said - one where every single set is extreme and full of **** and awesome times

especially if every single bracket set were to be recorded @_@

o man

 

[Banks]

you forgot the 'thecrimsonblur'

he is a definite shoe-in for brackets

oh wait nvm he's on there

 

[Frozen]

hypothetical 64 man bracket (in no particular order)

39. thumbswayup

lolwut

10wat's

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

there are plenty of people in there i'd be fine removing

at least 16 people, easily

at least 32 people, also a yes for sure... the issue is whether the whole pools process will remove the CORRECT (bottom) 16 or 32 people

the real problem is the stigma that not making it "out of pools" is somehow a huge slight... it's simply not

what's the point of putting someone into the bracket that you KNOW will be a 2-and-out? did you gain anything by including them instead of eliminating them during pools?

32?! Wtf? I think the slight is that everybody knows that pools will be tough to record, and brackets are where the real matches are at. Your talking about removing the possibility of something like Armada v. Vidjo. I can't be the only one who wants to see that. There is plenty of hype in that 64 man bracket that a 48 or 32 won't have.

 

[pockyD]

from what I understand, there are two different reasonings for the two different goals

smaller bracket (32, or maybe 48) - up the intensity of each match in brackets; reduce the number of dud matches (where you KNOW one player will win)

don't take more than half from pools - up the importance of playing well in pools; reduce the odds that anyone but the best players don't go all out

both have their merits in some way, but people shouldn't confusing one reasoning with the opposite goal (i.e. confusing half-pools with being the reason he doesn't want a 64-man bracket)

32?! Wtf? I think the slight is that everybody knows that pools will be tough to record, and brackets are where the real matches are at. Your talking about removing the possibility of something like Armada v. Vidjo. I can't be the only one who wants to see that. There is plenty of hype in that 64 man bracket that a 48 or 32 won't have.

i'm willing to trade one armada vs vidjo for four mango vs 'shaeden's

no offense to 'shaeden', i just randomly picked a name of someone i didn't know from that list

the thing is, pools WON'T be tough to record... with 16 round 3 pools, there's the exact same number of recording setups required as the 64 man bracket that you're pitching

 

[HAT]

this, my friends, is exactly why a real democracy is a statistical improbability

 

[TheTantalus]

Note: Lobos I helped VGBootcamp with their pools

HAT, Solid Jake, and Alex Strife did most of the work anyways, IIRC, since it was ECRC

Edit: HAT, democracy is cool, but someone has to be the official leader and say, "This is what we're doing"

which isn't true democracy, you're right.

Plank will decide whats best for everyone, should be epic

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

from what I understand, there are two different reasonings for the two different goals

smaller bracket (32, or maybe 48) - up the intensity of each match in brackets; reduce the number of dud matches (where you KNOW one player will win)

don't take more than half from pools - up the importance of playing well in pools; reduce the odds that anyone but the best players don't go all out

both have their merits in some way, but people shouldn't confusing one reasoning with the opposite goal (i.e. confusing half-pools with being the reason he doesn't want a 64-man bracket)



i'm willing to trade one armada vs vidjo for four mango vs 'shaeden's

no offense to 'shaeden', i just randomly picked a name of someone i didn't know from that list

the thing is, pools WON'T be tough to record... with 16 round 3 pools, there's the exact same number of recording setups required as the 64 man bracket that you're pitching

I don't really see the problem with a few dud matches. Mango is gonna 2-0 whoever he meets in the first round anyway. 2-0s are still entertaining matches to watch; more Mango footage isn't a bad thing. With a 64 man, the hype would build as the bracket goes on. I just don't see the reason why we want less epic matches and less footage when it doesn't affect resources much at all (time).

 

[pockyD]

I don't really see the problem with a few dud matches. Mango is gonna 2-0 whoever he meets in the first round anyway. 2-0s are still entertaining matches to watch; more Mango footage isn't a bad thing. With a 64 man, the hype would build as the bracket goes on. I just don't see the reason why we want less epic matches and less footage when it doesn't affect resources much at all (time).

i personally don't either, but plank has made it clear that he wants every bracket match to be top quality, and especially based on your list, 64 players would be far too many to make that a reality

 

[Linguini]

VBM,stop cluttering all the melee threads on smashboards lol, im trying to find out wtf is going on with this tournament but all I see is your baseless **** talk haha. Seeing as you haven't been to any tournaments with reputable players, and have beat no one know you have no right to reject challenges as insignificant,you as well,being insignificant for the time being. You gotta prove yourself bud, until then, shut the fvck up.

That being said mm me for any amount of $.

 

[Syde7]

Just some quick thoughts:

Personally, 32 man bracket cuts out a lot of quality players. I can name more than 32 players off the bat that are qualified to be in brackets that are "national caliber" talent, and that doesn't include people that I don't necc know much about but have heard good things about, or haven't heard of at all but are apparently really good. (Im a brawl player, had my roots in melee and try to keep up with the scene as best I can).

48 man bracket: The whole deal about awkward placings. However, depending on set-ups and such, why not have those people who tied for placings due to the whole "1-2 vs 0-2" scenario just play it out and alter the posted results accordingly. Or, if actually playing it out, just take a quick look at the brackets and see who went 1-2 instead of 0-2 and adjust accordingly. Yeah, it might throw off the numbering of the results a bit, and I admit it could be SOMEWHAT arbitrary (though, realistically it shouldn't be bc its raw data; someone WON a set as opposed to NONE) but it seems a bit more fair.

Also, since it seems obvious that Plank wants the crowd hyped for every match, the fact that EVERY match will be hyped runs the risk of cannibalizing each other. As such, there would be less hype for these otherwise super hype matches. With a larger bracket and a few "bleh" matches sparsed in the earlier rounds, there will be more hype around the matches that deserve it.

Also, I think I set the "hype paragraph density" record up there ^

Personally, if that sort of deal was in place I think the 48 man bracket would work out well. You'll generally have some pretty solid matchups in the 1st/2nd round, with the occasional "bleh" match... but, it would still be entertaining (at least for me) to watch.

64 man bracket: This is where things get a bit ickier in terms of bracket excitement. But, with the amount of quality players, I would venture to say that maybe 1/2 at most would be "bleh" matches that would be considered a walk-over. Still, entertaining to watch.

Just my two cents.

Similar stuff with brawl, but def not a 64 man. 48 feels nice.


Also... STILL need a ride. (Other bailed, family emergency/medical reasons) Anyone coming through NC and would be able to make a detour to the Hickory area (about 45 mins NW) of Charlotte... PLEASE contact me ASAP. I have plenty of $ for gas, and a small fee for your troubles. I have a few people who I am contacting but am currently in "communication limbo" with. So, the more options I have- the better.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

VBM, I just want to say that you may be notable, hell, even pro in your region. You might be the best player there. People in your region might just put down their controllers and walk off when they play you in bracket. The name "VirusBlueMage" might send shivers down the spine of every player, scrub to pro, in your region. You might be able to wombo combo everyone in your region with your left hand.

But this isn't your region, and no one knows who you are.


USAUSAUSAUSA

 

[KT Kasrani]

what i see with a 32 bracket is the same thing we see at every tourny. a 64 man bracket would be no different. there are well over 64 top players coming to this. so every match would still be as epic as ever.
with 32 its jus lik hey i payed $50 to not make it out of pools. give the people wat they want since their the ones who have to enjoy the tourny. but hey why listen to me. im jus a random

 

[HAT]

i'm just going to throw this out there, no offense to anybody

for the most part, the TOs at this tournament are going to be making the final decisions.

the primary points for and against 64/32/various pool arrangements have been made

but the wheels have been in motion for a long time.

so please keep in mind that plank knows what he's doing, as do the other people helping with pound, and things will be handled effectively. chatting about isn't going to change much.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

I'd like to have a 64 man bracket. while a bracket of 10% of the attending players would be awesome, it's kinda stupid at the same time.

 

[KT Kasrani]

might be a dumb question but when are brawl pools going to be posted?

 

[pockyD]

once again, there's no special shame in 'not making it out of pools' - there's only shame if it's symptomatic of your placing

for example, we could eliminate the 3rd round of pools altogether and do a 96 man bracket... will the people who go 0-2 in the bracket feel more accomplished than if we had done another round of pools and they got last in that?

in all honestly, the probably will, but in reality, they did no better, and they even got fewer matches to play in return for that 'distinction' of making it into brackets, making their placing far less accurate

 

[KT Kasrani]

I'd like to have a 64 man bracket. while a bracket of 10% of the attending players would be awesome, it's kinda stupid at the same time.

exactly. theres much more hype coming than the typical m2k vs ally matches.

 

[Renth]

edit:

ignore this .