*Pound* 4 Results

[P. O. F.]

so you're saying it's fair if it were a team that was expected to lose their first round?

No, definitely not what I was implying at all. I'm saying it is unfair to put two top level players into losers so early and destroy the bracket and skew the results. That's like taking Darc and Hax out of winners because Darc couldnt find his controller for five minutes. Has nothing to do with what I think about other players.

^ this

"Jigs beats Marth."

By the way, Husband and Cactus think Marth beats Jigs. MaNg0 thinks its 70-30 and Darc thinks its at best EVEN for jigs.

You were right.

 

[XIF]

And now I would like to take the time to say that everyone that went to Pound4 should also be on their knees thanking plank for what was apparently the most boss melee tournament ever.

My biggest regret in life is now missing this tournament.

 

[Nightmare™]

Mango is the new king of smash for sure.

 

[ph00tbag]

that isn't an excuse, people in losers need to man the fvck up.

And the people who were late don't? Look, I'm not even saying what Plank did was without fault. Honestly, there's no perfect solution for the TO here, which is why showing up late is such a ****ty thing to do, especially at a tournament as massive as Pound 4. Sure, Jman had extenuating circumstances, but this is how the real world works. The FAA can't hold one plane because you're getting patted down in security. This is why you give yourself a LOT of time. Fashionably late is only acceptable at parties.

 

[White_Mike]

If you don't want M2K and Jman to destroy losers bracket then you give them more time to play their winners match, you don't dq them from everything.

It's just not fair.

 

[g-regulate]

Day 1

approximately 58 melee setups

 

[Spife]

Day 1

approximately 58 melee setups

Quote for ****ing truth.

 

[Toushi]

For Plank to double DQ them is not only saying through action he does not care about circumstances, but also says the team m2k and Jman were playing first definitely couldn't win and I believe anyone could win at any time and there are plenty of teams good people just lose to not so good people so that can't be argued. Look at it like this, what if M2k and Jman lost their first match? Wouldn't that be the same as DQ'ing them from winners and making them play through losers? Every smasher has a chance. I seen Plank argued fairness for brackets and such but your arguing acts that are fair while doing actions that are unfair because no matter how small the chance they did in fact had a chance of losing

 

[XIF]

And the people who were late don't? Look, I'm not even saying what Plank did was without fault. Honestly, there's no perfect solution for the TO here, which is why showing up late is such a ****ty thing to do, especially at a tournament as massive as Pound 4. Sure, Jman had extenuating circumstances, but this is how the real world works. The FAA can't hold one plane because you're getting patted down in security. This is why you give yourself a LOT of time. Fashionably late is only acceptable at parties.

They were late for their winners bracket match specifically, and as such should be DQ'd from their winners bracket match. That's all the manning up they need to do. If you go into a store and break a lamp, they ask you to pay for the lamp, not the lamp and some other lamp.

 

[TokiDoki]

^This. Im not going to penalize those people in losers bracket because of the lateness of another player. Pound 2 brackets got owned because of this and im not gonna let people who were irresponsible ruin the entire tournament for teams who did nothing wrong and had a chance to place high.

Nobody should have to "man up" and play a top team in losers because they were not there in time for their winners bracket. It's one thing if they were outplayed, its another if they didnt show up. If someone doesnt show up to their pool match they are dq'd from their entire pool, whats the difference between pools and brackets? I planned on DQing everyone entirely from the tournament not just from winners before the tournament. I even had a long discussion with a fellow TO the DAY before Pound on my reasoning on why I do that.

Basically just because a team is good doesnt mean the rest of the teams in losers should pay for their mistake. They need to take the full blow of not being at the venue when they need to play, not half of the blow and distribute the other half between the rest of the losers bracket.


Home from airport trips, now to the venue to clean. Renth if youre around you should come HALP ME!!!!!!11

the better team should win.

 

[Melomaniacal]

I just don't agree with the logic for kicking them out of losers. It's penalizing them because they are good, and that's dumb. You might as well just make all the best players play each other first round if you want it to be fair for the lower level players.

The logic just isn't sound. They were late for winners, the rule is that they should have been DQ'd from winners. Instead, solely because they are top-placing players, they are DQ'd from everything.

I think it's extremely odd that you are so ****-sure about your decision.

EDIT: No disrespect meant, of course. Sorry if I come off as disrespectful. You did an amazing job and brought us probably the greatest Smash tournament ever.

 

[AprilShaw]

I'd just like to say that, everyone needs to take a step back from the issue for a second. No one really knows the full story except those who were directly involved (as is always the case for these situations).

Keep in mind that, Plank had a metric **** ton to deal with for this tourney. You don't have to agree with him completely but there's no need to give him such a hard time about it. What's done is done and the most we can do now is hope it doesn't happen again.

I don't agree with your decision on the DQ, Plank, based on what I've heard. However, I just gotta say that was the most ****ing amaaaaaazing tourney I've been to and you did an incredible job as a TO. The only way it could have been better is if it didn't end in Puff dittos, but that's not really your fault. Oh, and no Brawl ;D

Good **** Plank and don't feel like everyone hates you over this.

 

[Laijin]

Pound 5 for next year. =)
Bigger. Better. More awesome than Pound 4.

 

[ph00tbag]

Remember, people: Plank didn't just double DQ M2K and Jman. He's said himself that he double DQ'd several people for being late, and no one has made half as much drama about them as they have over M2K and Jman. What I'm really seeing here is that M2K (and maybe Jman, I dunno how he really feels) feels entitled, and has acquired the support of several people who weren't there, because he's good.

They were late for their winners bracket match specifically, and as such should be DQ'd from their winners bracket match. That's all the manning up they need to do. If you go into a store and break a lamp, they ask you to pay for the lamp, not the lamp and some other lamp.

Breaking the lamp doesn't inherently inconvenience anyone except the people who have to clean it up, and you're already compensating them by paying for the broken lamp. If the FAA held up that flight I mentioned for you, some people on that flight might miss their connections. And if you miss your flight, you miss all of your connections.

I think my analogy is more watertight than yours, here, because we're not talking about an isolated system. There are ramifications in this situation that are not present in your analogy.

 

[The Cunning Weasel]

Day 1

approximately 58 melee setups

fix'd

10hemans

 

[Jane]

and the moral of the story:

get better cars

 

[Melomaniacal]

I mean... very hypothetical situation here, but...

What if M2K and Jman showed up on time. They played their first set, and completely ****ed up and lost. Should they be DQ'd from losers bracket now because it's unfair to punish the losers bracket for M2K+Jman's mistake?

Of course not.

 

[Atlus8]

Was there a DQ rule in the OP? No! Plank said he discussed it with a fellow TO about handling DQ the DAY BEFORE Pound started, but nothing was clearly said!

Reason for M2K/Jman being DQ: Plank didn't want a dominant team in the losers bracket so they can just run through it smoothly!

Reason for Jman being late: handling business with the hotel! Not exactly sure what it was!

Were other teams DQ like M2K/Jman? Yes!

yeah i don't really get why we didn't just get sent to losers.. i wish plank told me that was the penalty when i was pestering him the day before that i'd be late the next day for teams. then pc could have just teamed with someone else

 

[Niko45]

yea but..... every team would've been "double DQed", under the same circumstances, no one else got any "single DQs", so there's no discrimination at all. making you sound somewhat foolish

But if it's the first DQ handed out then of course after that he has to double DQ everyone. There is no general predetermined logic behind a double DQ stating that a single DQ is unfair for the loser's bracket. A single DQ wouldn't make any difference if the late players were players you expected to lose anyway. You can't know that beforehand, so the decision was clearly made on the spot that they were too good to be sent to loser's bracket and he double DQ'd them. Then he just double DQ'd everyone else after that.

 

[ph00tbag]

I mean... very hypothetical situation here, but...

What if M2K and Jman showed up on time. They played their first set, and completely ****ed up and lost. Should they be DQ'd from losers bracket now because it's unfair to punish the losers bracket for M2K+Jman's mistake?

Of course not.

You're comparing an actual match to a DQ. They are so different, it's not even funny.

 

[Melomaniacal]

You're comparing an actual match to a DQ. They are so different, it's not even funny.

The logic for DQing them from the losers bracket was because it was unfair to those in the losers bracket ("punishing them for M2K/Jman's mistake" paraphrased). This is the reason they were not DQ'd from only the winners bracket match. Is this not correct?

If I am mistaken, then my bad, ignore me.

If I am correct, then what's the difference to the losers bracket in how they got there? There is no difference to those in the losers bracket, so why shouldn't the DQ logic stay the same for both situations?

My main point is that they were punished for being too good. That's wrong.

 

[King Funk]

Since M2K was there and jman was not, why wasn't it reasonable for m2k to try 2 on 1 or teaming with a level 9 until jman showed up?

Remen played the whole Melee doubles tourney alone with 8 stocks at OSTS (european tournament in the Netherlands). It was pretty legit actually, considering it wasn't too easy or too difficult for him. He ended 13th, I think.

M2K playing Fox with 8 stocks could actually have gone far. xD

 

[Atlus8]

You're comparing an actual match to a DQ. They are so different, it's not even funny.

It's not so different in this situation! The MAIN reason they got DQ'ed out of the whole thing is because they were too good to be in the losers bracket!

 

[IVP]

haha what making me really laugh is that all you guys talking **** about planks DQ decisions are probably even worse at hosting tourneys than plank. the thing i didnt agree with plank was the seeding (including himself getting an easy bracket in singles).

i mean, this is the biggest smash tourney to date right? plank didnt know how long jman would be gone so he DQd them so that they would finnish teams earlier. what if jman came later? so one side of bracket will be done while they are waiting for jman? no. stop posting 100 pages about the situation cuz thats history now. plank cant hold the biggest tourney while having jmans problem affecting him cuz that would be special treatment.

see it as an accident that jman came late, theres nuttin you can do about it now, u can only make the situation worse by flaming each other so i guess thats what u wanna do? then go flame sumwhere else.

 

[legion598]

ewww jiggly puff is gross

 

[TokiDoki]

<3<3<3<3<3
/mangofanboy

 

[ph00tbag]

The logic for DQing them from the losers bracket was because it was unfair to those in the losers bracket ("punishing them for M2K/Jman's mistake" paraphrased). This is the reason they were not DQ'd from only the winners bracket match. Is this not correct?

If I am mistaken, then my bad, ignore me.

If I am correct, then what's the difference to the losers bracket in how they got there? There is no difference to those in the losers bracket, so why shouldn't the DQ logic stay the same for both situations?

It's a question of in game skill as opposed to what happened out of the game. If M2K and Jman had lost their second round match, then clearly their opponent is still in some way better, either in terms of consistency or nerves or something. Now, if this was due to a seeding error, that is entirely the TO's fault, and they deserve any of the drama they get (although anyone with any TO experience will tell you **** like this happens ALL THE TIME). Otherwise, it is very, very likely not a fluke, and the results in game will still be interesting to see through to the end of the tournament.

When anyone shows up late and is DQ'd, they've already potentially screwed the winners bracket up enough with something that has nothing to do with their skill. Why should the loser's bracket also get messed up because of something that has nothing to do with their skill?

It's not so different in this situation! The MAIN reason they got DQ'ed out of the whole thing is because they were too good to be in the losers bracket!

Have you read any of this? Seriously. Skill had nothing to do with it. Everyone who was DQ'd for being late was double DQ'd. Everyone.

 

[hungrybox]

The Inui posts are hilarious.

 

[ph00tbag]

The Inui posts are hilarious.

I heard he punched a lion.

 

[Melomaniacal]

I don't really care enough to keep arguing this, but I'll just say that it was unfair to them to DQ them from both. Not every team was DQ'd from both winners and losers for being late. The team could have won, but instead lost because we didn't want them beating lower level teams.
I just don't agree with the decision, but it's fine. I'll live, haha.

 

[nyc_tag$]

The Inui posts are hilarious.

QFT.

Too good.

 

[Atlus8]

Have you read any of this? Seriously. Skill had nothing to do with it. Everyone who was DQ'd for being late was double DQ'd. Everyone.

Skill had EVERYTHING to do with this!

Nobody should have to "man up" and play a top team in losers because they were not there in time for their winners bracket.

Basically just because a team is good doesnt mean the rest of the teams in losers should pay for their mistake. They need to take the full blow of not being at the venue when they need to play, not half of the blow and distribute the other half between the rest of the losers bracket.

Once Plank DQ'ed Jman/M2k entirely, he had to do the same for everyone! Plank didn't double DQ'ed everyone for being late! He double DQ'ed them because he couldn't play favorites once he did it to Jman/M2k!

 

[Mogwai]

I don't really care enough to keep arguing this, but I'll just say that it was unfair to them to DQ them from both. Not every team was DQ'd from both winners and losers for being late. The team could have won, but instead lost because we didn't want them beating lower level teams.
I just don't agree with the decision, but it's fine. I'll live, haha.

the thing is that every team was DQed from both for being late, it's just that the DQ rule was unknown going into the tourney. If I had to guess, the DQ rule that was inforced, but never posted was:

"If your opponents report to me that they cannot find you, I will announce your name on the mic and if you don't show up to play within 10 minutes, you are disqualified from the entire tournament in question."

the current issue is that no one knew this was the rule or expected it to be this, which feels kinda shady, especially with how plank talks about how M2K and JMan would ruin the loser's bracket.

I'm gonna stop though cause the only people arguing still are scrubby at arguing/reading (sry guys, but it's true).

Good **** plank for running an awesome national, I hope you don't think I'm generally disappointed in the tournament for being upset over this one issue. On the whole, it was pretty ****ing awesome.

 

[TokiDoki]

Jason you came very close to beating armada. Don't look at it as a loss, just keep you're confidence up and you'll be the top in no time. Good job

 

[Melomaniacal]

Alright, thanks for correcting me.

Like I said, though, I'm not really upset over this. It's just a little thing I'm trying to understand the logic behind.

 

[Divinokage]

Oh, the things I could say.

Yes, it's true.

Edit: lol good same-time post adam. =p

It's ok, we are forever in people's hearts, no matter what happens. =P

Also lol Mogwai using Kage tag in friendlies. You said it would give you the power to beat Mango however not PP. =P

 

[ph00tbag]

I don't really care enough to keep arguing this, but I'll just say that it was unfair to them to DQ them from both. Not every team was DQ'd from both winners and losers for being late. The team could have won, but instead lost because we didn't want them beating lower level teams.
I just don't agree with the decision, but it's fine. I'll live, haha.

As has been said, not all late teams were reported. Even then, it was kinda unfair, ultimately, to the Brawl folk, as any delays in Melee led to Brawl not getting the livestream when they wanted it. Still, the late teams that were reported were DQ'd and the ones that were DQ'd were all double DQ'd, so I don't know what you're talking about, there.

I still disagree with it being unfair to M2K and Jman. They got treatment that was no different from anyone else that got reported for being late. Plank's methods were unconventional, but that doesn't make them unfair. They were informed by years of hosting massive national and international level tournaments, so it's not like Plank was making stuff up with no basis for doing so.

Skill had EVERYTHING to do with this!

Once Plank DQ'ed Jman/M2k entirely, he had to do the same for everyone! Plank didn't double DQ'ed everyone for being late! He double DQ'ed them because he couldn't play favorites once he did it to Jman/M2k!

Learn. To. Read:

the thing is that every team was DQed from both for being late, it's just that the DQ rule was unknown going into the tourney. If I had to guess, the DQ rule that was inforced, but never posted was:

"If your opponents report to me that they cannot find you, I will announce your name on the mic and if you don't show up to play within 10 minutes, you are disqualified from the entire tournament in question."

the current issue is that no one knew this was the rule or expected it to be this, which feels kinda shady, especially with how plank talks about how M2K and JMan would ruin the loser's bracket.

Yes, there was a breakdown of communication. But there was NO PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT based on skill. This is the LAST TIME I will reiterate this.

 

[Mogwai]

It's ok, we are forever in people's hearts, no matter what happens. =P

Also lol Mogwai using Kage tag in friendlies. You said it would give you the power to beat Mango however not PP. =P

yea, I kinda forgot that the Kage tag is powerless against PPMD... kit's too goot.

 

[Melomaniacal]

As has been said, not all late teams were reported. Even then, it was kinda unfair, ultimately, to the Brawl folk, as any delays in Melee led to Brawl not getting the livestream when they wanted it. Still, the late teams that were reported were DQ'd and the ones that were DQ'd were all double DQ'd, so I don't know what you're talking about, there.

I still disagree with it being unfair to M2K and Jman. They got treatment that was no different from anyone else that got reported for being late. Plank's methods were unconventional, but that doesn't make them unfair. They were informed by years of hosting massive national and international level tournaments, so it's not like Plank was making stuff up with no basis for doing so.


Learn. To. Read.

I understand. I was under the impression (from Plank's post) that the decision was based just on the fact that they were too good for the losers bracket teams.

 

[l!nk_aut]

does anyone have the Top10 of Melee Doubles? :O