Potential update tomorrow

[MagiusNecros]

OMG on Uthrow.

B Reverse Fortress to ledge seems to work as intended. Snaps to ledge now.

 

[xYoh]

instead of hoo-hah, how about koo-pa?

 

[Big Sean]

something is ****ing up with klaw. It looks like it has a faster startup and it flashes too. Grab armor?

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

Yeah, I'd like to know if the flash is invulnerability or something.

 

[Jerodak]

It used to flash in brawl. Might just be a graphics fix but try the bob-omb test.

 

[Luig]

Yep, Uthrow can true combo into Uair.
And my work here is done.

 

[Big Sean]

Snapping to the ledge feels different. It looks like there's a new animation when you snap to the ledge. In addition you snap to the ledge even faster. Anyone else notice this?

 

[Cronoc]

OMG on Uthrow.

B Reverse Fortress to ledge seems to work as intended. Snaps to ledge now.

Ok this this hyping me up, damn update needs to finish installing...

Edit: Reverse fortress snaps properly! and OMFG at uthrow, it has so little knockback now... This is so great, I just can't believe they didn't fix klaw at the same time. Well 2/3 ain't bad. But still, he's gotta fix klaw

Edit edit: Ok uthrow is ridiculous now. True combo's into nair at mid-late percents, and of course uair... but I notice that something is weird about klaw's startup after grabbing an opponent. Seems like the start of the animation is slightly faster... Doesn't mean anything much, nor fix the problem with klaw, but it looks weird.

 

[Cerealisyummy5]

So like...did Klaw always have invincibility? I just tested the bomb-omb method and Bowser ate it like nothing happened... (I threw a bomb up in the air and it touched me and did nothing during the klaw grab animation at the start).

 

[pitfall356]

I'm not noticing a difference with TG (Tested with Falco laser).

uthrow is faster with basically no knockback early on. It has such little stun that I can hardly combo utilt off of it, let alone an aerial. The window to combo early on is really tight.

Does Klaw really have grab armor? Holy hell.
EDIT: Just tested now, klaw DOES have INVINCIBILITY on grab!

 

[Cerealisyummy5]

^

It really does sir. At least when you're grabbing somebody with it. If you whiff it, zip nada no armor. But during the grab animation you are completely invincible.

 

[Big Sean]

Alright just tested the up throw stuff. Take this with a grain of salt because my timing after up throw isn't perfect yet. Very few follow ups seemed guaranteed. It looks like a bunch of 50/50's. The percentages that up air kills at looks like you can double jump every time. The best you can get is a landing trap. Up air -> up + b does not look real either.

 

[Cerealisyummy5]

So klaw is confirmed to be changed. Are there any hitbox changes?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

What is it exactly you're seeing with klaw invincibility? Are attacks just not interacting with Bowser during it, super armor, what?

 

[Cerealisyummy5]

What is it exactly you're seeing with klaw invincibility? Are attacks just not interacting with Bowser during it, super armor, what?

Basically once Bowser grabs his opponent, he flashes and cannot be hit by anything. Like its straight forward, he's literally invincible at the start of grabbing somebody with the koopa klaw XD.

 

[Big Sean]

Cerealisyummy5 I actually tried just testing the grab armor changes. I had a mario charge forward smash and then I tries Klaw-ing through it. I could never get it to work.

I have a feeling this change is more about FFA. It starts up faster and it has invincibility AFTER it grabs, not during.

 

[pitfall356]

As said above, when Bowser grabs an opponent, he becomes completely invincible. Tested by throwing a bob-omb directly upwards and grabbing right as it should hit. It instead goes through Bowser and victim and explodes on the ground, which is where they both are before Bowser can even flip.

Basically, at the start of the grab, Bowser is completely immune to damage.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Uthrow > Bowser Bomb could be a thing to watch out for.

But yeah these are really nice improvements.

SHAD Special cancels are still athing along with lagless Klaw landings.

Moving to custom moves in a bit.

 

[Cerealisyummy5]

As said above, when Bowser grabs an opponent, he becomes completely invincible. Tested by throwing a bob-omb directly upwards and grabbing right as it should hit. It instead goes through Bowser and victim and explodes on the ground, which is where they both are before Bowser can even flip.

Basically, at the start of the grab, Bowser is completely immune to damage.

Yup! So we've concluded that up throw was not the only change. Koopa klaw has been changed too.

I'm just trying to figure out if the hitbox on this move changed at all....

 

[pitfall356]

Seems like the hitbox didn't change too much for klaw, if at all. I can still whiff with the player inside my character model but still somewhat in front of me.

EDIT: I'm using a second 3ds to test, Bowser's klaw goes faster when it connects. He doesn't take forever to flip into the air any more.

 

[Big Sean]

I'm not convinced this is confirmed. Until someone shows me a video of a character smashing bowser and bowser ignoring the attack. I've tested it and couldn't make this happen.

 

[pitfall356]

Don't try to smash Bowser. Throw a bob-omb into the air and use klaw. If you do it right, you'll be invincible when the bomb should connect and you'll flip anyways.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

EDIT: I'm using a second 3ds to test, Bowser's klaw goes faster when it connects. He doesn't take forever to flip into the air any more.

This is accurate. It's mostly the transition from a successful grab to getting into the air that is sped up. I don't know if any other specific aspect is different. Like if the movement speed of flying is changed, or if Bowser's control is changed. But with less time for the opponent to decide how to control flying slam, I'd call this a buff for singles as well. In order to get the most out of your control of Flying Slam, Bowser and the victim need to have picked their direction early on.

 

[CeeV]

Flying slam is so much faster it looks hilarious lmao

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

Big Sean I'm getting kill confirms on perfect timing up to 123% before up throw on Mario in training mode. It registers as a combo, but the timing is strict.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Did not find any FAF changes on Bowser besides Uthrow. I haven't counted the difference, but I feel like 7 frames is inaccurate, and it's more like 3 less endlag. Just to be clear, I'm talking specifically about the endlag, not about how the move is finished faster overall. Will have to update on that later.

Aerial Whirling Fortress now ledge snaps behind Bowser for the first time in Smash history, Uthrow is super good and I look forward to people posting more results about this move. Uthrow is behaving very bizarrely in doubles scenarios. Many Clouds are getting semi spiked by the final hit when attempting to interrupt the move. And it straight up murders luma if you're close enough to the ledge.

 

[Dark Phazon]

What is the full list of changes for bowser?

 

[pitfall356]

Uthrow is now a combo throw.
Klaw does a flip sooner after the grab, and has invincibility after the grab connects until takeoff.
Fortress now snaps to ledge from behind.

That seems like everything. It isn't the specifics, but that's basically it.

 

[Zigsta]

Snapping to the ledge feels different. It looks like there's a new animation when you snap to the ledge. In addition you snap to the ledge even faster. Anyone else notice this?

Yeah it's way faster now. Snapping speed reminds me a lot more of Melee than Brawl.

 

[S_B]

Yeah it's way faster now. Snapping speed reminds me a lot more of Melee than Brawl.

Wait, is faster snap a confirmed change? Is this for everyone, or just Bowser?

Has the 2 frame window changed at all...?