Potential Roster/Stage Leak Thread

[Luigi#1]

Even if the ICs really did have problems, surely they could be modified like Olimar to address them? Such as simplifying Nana's AI if necessary.

I just can't buy the idea that they'd be singled out for removal, the first out of all the characters to ever appear in multiple Smash games. Technical difficulties don't seem like they'd make it impossible to bring in the ICs in some form when Rosalina can work. Even holding them off for DLC strikes me as almost impossible to believe.

Wouldn't simplifying it have problems, like not making it back to Popo?

 

[☆Jazz☆]

Even if the ICs really did have problems, surely they could be modified like Olimar to address them? Such as simplifying Nana's AI if necessary.

I just can't buy the idea that they'd be singled out for removal, the first out of all the characters to ever appear in multiple Smash games. Technical difficulties don't seem like they'd make it impossible to bring in the ICs in some form when Rosalina can work. Even holding them off for DLC strikes me as almost impossible to believe.

Welll...DLC so they can have more time to fix that problem? Pfft, I don't know, but I would be pleased to hear that Ice Climbers will return since alot of people would be happy. I don't really care for the Ice Climbers personally, but I wouldn't mind at all if they returned .

 

[TheOthin]

Wouldn't simplifying it have problems, like not making it back to Popo?

I don't think so. The Luma can get back to Rosalina; it just can't do much on its own in that state.

 

[Repiteo]

Even if the ICs really did have problems, surely they could be modified like Olimar to address them? Such as simplifying Nana's AI if necessary.

I just can't buy the idea that they'd be singled out for removal, the first out of all the characters to ever appear in multiple Smash games. Technical difficulties don't seem like they'd make it impossible to bring in the ICs in some form when Rosalina can work. Even holding them off for DLC strikes me as almost impossible to believe.

I think it's fair to assume that Sakurai's team knows more about their stance then we do. Programming Nana's AI is likely much easier said than done.

Technical difficulties make the prospect of DLC all the more likely to me. I can't see them risking delaying an entire game for the sake of one character. Well, in the past, maybe, but because DLC is now an option, they can simply focus on what they have and refining characters like icies behind the scenes, without fear of a deadline.

 

[ThePsychoWolf]

5. Fox/Wolf

Startfox, similiar to earthbound situation.

This would not work! Wolf, in addition to being entirely different, is also noticeably larger than Fox, even in his feral, hunched-over stance from Brawl.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

As a Lucas main, I rather not have him at all, rather than downgraded to an alt. costume, in all honesty. Sure you can say custom movesets can have Lucas' specials, but in Brawl thanks to his moveset as a whole (jabs, smashes, tilts, aerials, etc) he was one of the best semi clones, in my opinion.

Anyways, that's a little off topic I think, so I have the leak at 50/50 when it comes to real or fake, from the evidence me and others gathered against it, plus the counters for them, I'm not willing to believe more on either side, at the moment

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

This would not work! Wolf, in addition to being entirely different, is also noticeably larger than Fox, even in his feral, hunched-over stance from Brawl.

He would be made NOT entirely different. With the combination for Wolf's and Fox's special moves, that would be customization. Laser differences, Up-B diagonals, etc. Wolf's moves from Brawl, move to the pool of Fox/Wolf for Special Customization.

He would be the third character to sit more upright, after Bowser and Yoshi.

As a Lucas main, I rather not have him at all, rather than downgraded to an alt. costume, in all honesty. Sure you can say custom movesets can have Lucas' specials, but in Brawl thanks to his moveset as a whole (jabs, smashes, tilts, aerials, etc) he was one of the best semi clones, in my opinion.

Anyways, that's a little off topic I think, so I have the leak at 50/50 when it comes to real or fake, from the evidence me and others gathered against it, plus the counters for them, I'm not willing to believe more on either side, at the moment

It's on topic. It's discussing where Lucas, Wolf go in regards to the Leak.

People have pride issues with their characters.
What makes more sense?

Ness needs 12 SPECIAL MOVES.
Lucas needs 12 Special MOVES.
For Customization.

Instead of cutting one of them, why not combine them?

One earthbound character. An overhaul, Just like ZSS, Sheik, Zelda, Bowser, Pit, etc. They all got redone. Why can't Ness/Lucas? Why cut one of them when you can have them both?

The customizations are a combo of Brawl Ness and Lucas' moves.

That is a great solution, instead of, "Just cut lucas."

 

[Repiteo]

He would be made NOT entirely different. With the combination for Wolf's and Fox's special moves, that would be customization. Laser differences, Up-B diagonals, etc. Wolf's moves from Brawl, move to the pool of Fox/Wolf for Special Customization.

He would be the third character to sit more upright, after Bowser and Yoshi.

Though, Wolf was least unique in regard to his specials. Where he really shined as a character were his standard attacks.

 

[PowerBomb]

I doubt Wolf's being cut regardless of this leak's authenticity. Sakurai wanted him in both 64 and Melee and was only able to add him in in Brawl. Why cut him all of a sudden, especially when other, dumbed-down clones are included like Lucina?

 

[GunGunW]

Look at the roster and look at what Sakurai says about Alternate Costumes.

“With the Wii Fit Trainers, the male and female Robins, the Villagers, and Little Mac, varying their appearances and voices works just like selecting alternate color variations. However, whenever there is even a small difference in abilities, that character gets an actual roster slot. That is why you can select Lucina individually.”

http://mynintendonews.com/2014/07/1...ifferences-to-marth-in-smash-bros-screenshot/


Do the Wii Fit Trainers and Animal crossing characters make any vocal noises? I'm sure the Robins do.

It just seems that there are more Alternate Costumes that will have different voices and perhaps name besides those listed. He seems to need to contrast it more with Lucina's special status. It just seems like he didn't have enough revealed examples to truly express the difference.

I can see based off the leak roster there also being:
1. Earthbound Rep: Ness/Lucas
2. Sonic/Metal Sonic
3. Alph/Olimar
4. Protoman/Megaman
5. Fox/Wolf
6.Meta Knight/ Galacta Knight


And based off the leak, Sakurai decided that Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit were the ones worthy enough to just make with stat differences.

WFT's not worthy, just gender.
Robins, same story
AC, same story
Ness/Lucas, can easily make an earthbound character with a combined moveset of Ness +Lucas, especially with customizable moves.
Sonics, not gonna add another 3rd party, so just keep it an alt
Megaman, same as sonic, protoman would be another 3rd party
Startfox, similiar to earthbound situation.
Meta Knight, Galacta knight not nearly popular enough to be a clone, but could be new alt.


Doing this would keep a couple of the cuts and explain what Sakurai really is talking about with "Special Lucky Alternates who made it to clone status." And that there are actually quite a bit of alternates with different voices and names, etc.

Well, with the additions of Dr. Mario and Dark Pit there's really no reason to have removed Wolf and Lucas at least in my opinion anyway. Although maybe he felt that he wanted to cut a few and add a couple of other ones to make it feel new?

Although, if Wolf is cut... which I really don't like (although I can live with) him being a Fox alternate would at least be okay to me.

I'd also like to add that I agree with regards to the leak, that Wolf can also be an unlockable not yet seen on the roster. He was the hardest character to unlock in Brawl, so it's not unlikely that if he is to return, that he'd be harder to unlock in Smash 4.

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

As a Lucas main, I rather not have him at all, rather than downgraded to an alt. costume, in all honesty. Sure you can say custom movesets can have Lucas' specials, but in Brawl thanks to his moveset as a whole (jabs, smashes, tilts, aerials, etc) he was one of the best semi clones, in my opinion.

Anyways, that's a little off topic I think, so I have the leak at 50/50 when it comes to real or fake, from the evidence me and others gathered against it, plus the counters for them, I'm not willing to believe more on either side, at the moment

Though, Wolf was least unique in regard to his specials. Where he really shined as a character were his standard attacks.

I'm Sakurai and his team.

We need to make space on the roster.

Fox, Wolf, and Falco need 12 specials for the new customizable modes.

They can just cut wolf...or they can split his unique specials to be customizable into a Starfox Specials pool, and keep him as an alt?

Which option makes the most sense? I know he had non-special uniquness, but a character has to be cut. Starfox, Earthbound, are both places where they could merge and alt instead of totally dropping a character.

 

[BindingBlade]

I have a feeling, provided the leak is true, that Wolf's moves have been fitted into Fox and Falco's custom moves.

 

[Opossum]

Keep all Wolf discussion related to the leak. NOT whether customization would eliminate the need for him.

 

[ThePsychoWolf]

He would be made NOT entirely different. With the combination for Wolf's and Fox's special moves, that would be customization. Laser differences, Up-B diagonals, etc. Wolf's moves from Brawl, move to the pool of Fox/Wolf for Special Customization.

He would be the third character to sit more upright, after Bowser and Yoshi.

But you're still missing my point. Wolf is LARGER THAN FOX. Making him stand upright is going to make him TALLER THAN FOX. Larger/taller = more range. Lucina was split from Marth because she was shorter. Therefore, Wolf would have to get his own slot anyway, were that the case.

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

I have a feeling, provided the leak is true, that Wolf's moves have been fitted into Fox and Falco's custom moves.

Exactly.
Tthey could have taken his specials. Given them to the customizable Fox and Falco.

But WOLF is on that leaked Roster. Just as an alt. Or at least I hope so. It would have been a good save by Sakurai instead of cutting.

But you're still missing my point. Wolf is LARGER THAN FOX. Making him stand upright is going to make him TALLER THAN FOX. Larger/taller = more range. Lucina was split from Marth because she was shorter. Therefore, Wolf would have to get his own slot anyway, were that the case.

They can change his size. C'mon. That is the easiest of obstacles. They fixed Bowser's hunchback, they can find a cure for wolf's height.

 

[LeeYawshee]

Keep all Wolf discussion related to the leak. NOT whether customization would eliminate the need for him.

Wait a second, the leak says that Wolf will be DLC, if he gets removed because customization eliminates the need for him, isn't that technically part of the leak?

 

[CapnMuffin]

*sees your signature*
o-o
>_>
WHAT DO YOU KNOW

N-Nothin'!

Hehe, seriously though I don't know anything. But I am #TeamReal, so maybe it says something knowing that I of all people am "falling for it". I have to admit I was briiiiiieeeefly tempted to recreate one or two of the new renders here and post them but the community doesn't need anymore chaos or fraudulence and that would just be lame attention *****ing. While this could technically be faked there are too many small details and coincidences, along with the fact this would be a massive undertaking, that I'm convinced.

 

[Repiteo]

Keep all Wolf discussion related to the leak. NOT whether customization would eliminate the need for him.

Fair enough. That was a bit off tangent retrospectively.

To get back on topic:

Wait a second, the leak says that Wolf will be DLC, if he gets removed because customization eliminates the need for him, isn't that technically part of the leak?

The DLC is currently assumed to be a false claim, and not associated with the rest of the leak.

 

[Opossum]

Wait a second, the leak says that Wolf will be DLC, if he gets removed because customization eliminates the need for him, isn't that technically part of the leak?

This hasn't been clarified enough, apparently.


PSA: THE PORTION INVOLVING DLC WAS CONFIRMED TO BE FAKE.

That being said, the posts in question did not mention the leak and took the conversation out of that context.

 

[Repiteo]

PSA: THE PORTION INVOLVING DLC WAS CONFIRMED TO BE FAKE.

If I may ask, can the details on how the DLC being confirmed fake also be clarified? I've stated this to a few misinformed people a few times, though I'm not entirely sure of the story behind the "how" myself.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

He would be made NOT entirely different. With the combination for Wolf's and Fox's special moves, that would be customization. Laser differences, Up-B diagonals, etc. Wolf's moves from Brawl, move to the pool of Fox/Wolf for Special Customization.

He would be the third character to sit more upright, after Bowser and Yoshi.




It's on topic. It's discussing where Lucas, Wolf go in regards to the Leak.

People have pride issues with their characters.
What makes more sense?

Ness needs 12 SPECIAL MOVES.
Lucas needs 12 Special MOVES.
For Customization.

Instead of cutting one of them, why not combine them?

One earthbound character. An overhaul, Just like ZSS, Sheik, Zelda, Bowser, Pit, etc. They all got redone. Why can't Ness/Lucas? Why cut one of them when you can have them both?

The customizations are a combo of Brawl Ness and Lucas' moves.

That is a great solution, instead of, "Just cut lucas."

Not really the greatest solution as Ness' moveset all together makes him Ness. The same said for Lucas. Combining them would be rather strange, in my opinion, you would end up with elements that makes the character them gone. Like how could you choose between Ness' up smash yo-yo and Lucas' up smash PK Love. Or Side smash stick or baseball bat. And that's not even going in to how Lucas and Ness go with each other really well, when it comes to being the same, but different. Lucas has KOing smashes and punishing aerials, vice-versa for Ness.

Anyways, I feel that Sakurai wouldn't cut Lucas due to similarities and make him an alt for Ness, that contradicts development history for Melee and Brawl. If this Leak is true and Lucas is cut, he most likely wouldn't be an alt. for Ness and was probably cut due to other reasons like time constraints or something, to be perfectly honest.

 

[LeeYawshee]

This hasn't been clarified enough, apparently.


PSA: THE PORTION INVOLVING DLC WAS CONFIRMED TO BE FAKE.

That being said, the posts in question did not mention the leak and took the conversation out of that context.

Okay, then do we have confirmation that that isn't the full roster?

 

[Bedoop]

This hasn't been clarified enough, apparently.


PSA: THE PORTION INVOLVING DLC WAS CONFIRMED TO BE FAKE.

That being said, the posts in question did not mention the leak and took the conversation out of that context.

Ice Climbers!
Lucas!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-Oh well, I still have the Doc.!

 

[Opossum]

Okay, then do we have confirmation that that isn't the full roster?

That part's iffy. The only thing I can 100% say is that that part's not disconfirmed, unlike the DLC portion.

 

[CapnMuffin]

Okay, then do we have confirmation that that isn't the full roster?

Reputable people with connection/info have stated the DLC part was made up.

And their responses on "is there more?" range from "possible" to "positive"

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

Not really the greatest solution as Ness' moveset all together makes him Ness. The same said for Lucas. Combining them would be rather strange, in my opinion, you would end up with elements that makes the character them gone. Like how could you choose between Ness' up smash yo-yo and Lucas' up smash PK Love. Or Side smash stick or baseball bat. And that's not even going in to how Lucas and Ness go with each other really well, when it comes to being the same, but different. Lucas has KOing smashes and punishing aerials, vice-versa for Ness.

Anyways, I feel that Sakurai wouldn't cut Lucas due to similarities and make him an alt for Ness, that contradicts development history for Melee and Brawl. If this Leak is true and Lucas is cut, he most likely wouldn't be an alt. for Ness and was probably cut due to other reasons like time constraints or something, to be perfectly honest.

You are acting like Ness nor Lucas never changed from 64 to Melee to Brawl to Project M and wouldn't to Smash 4
.
They can change into a representative for Earthbound.
This Leak, shows that there is 1 earthbound character.
This Leak, shows that there are new Clones and presumedly Alternate Costumes.

Take what we know from that leak and that a character needs 12 customizable moves... Makes sense to combine them. Or, I should rephrase, it would be awesome if they did instead of totally killing one of the two and giving all 12 specials to just Ness. The combining would be a solution to their time constraint problem.

This leak, says, one earthbound character. That is scary, I hope sakurai didn't fully cut.

 

[HugoBoss]

I still have faith in Wolf, Lucas, Snake, Mewtwo, and Ice Climbers

 

[Oz37]

O_o
Guess I can't take any breaks then, this thread gets like 3 pages every half hour.
Anyway, just reposting my thing about the triangles in the leak for others to see:

In reply to your repost: I could see the triangle being a scroll option, but why is it in two places? On one screen, it's off to the side (like you would think it would be), but in the CSS it's on Ganondorf's face. Why? I saw someone else suggest that it's a pause/play button (supporting the idea that the leaks are part of a ESRB video-thingy), but that begs the same question. Why the different positions?

I really think this needs to be looked at seriously, but people seem to be too weary from speculation and debate (AKA, bickering and spamming) to attempt to dive into yet another aspect of the leak.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

You are acting like Ness nor Lucas ever changed from Melee to Brawl to Project M.
They can change into a representative for Earthbound.
This Leak, shows that there is 1 earthbound character.
This Leak, shows that there are new Clones and presumedly Alternate Costumes.

Take what we know from that leak and that a character needs 12 customizable moves... Makes sense to combine them. Or, I should rephrase, it would be awesome if they did. It would be a solution to their time constraint problem.

I know changes happen, but drastic changes like redesigning a vet's moveset due to a cut character, has never happened, I'm just saying that it's more likely Lucas is not an alt. Costume than is.

 

[MASTERLINKX]

If we are to believe that the last set of images were tampered, that could have been put there to throw us off.

Attempting to catch up on what I missed while I was at work.

I can tell you that nothing else in the images has been tampered with.

 

[LeeYawshee]

That part's iffy. The only thing I can 100% say is that that part's not disconfirmed, unlike the DLC portion.

Thank you for the response. It gives me hope, to be quite honest.

Because of the DLC part, I no longer believe Snake will be in. It's a shame but eh...
Lucas and Wolf are questionable and I feel like Ice climbers will definitely be in. Maybe hidden only because they were the last to be finished in development, similar to Wolf in Brawl.

You are acting like Ness nor Lucas never changed from 64 to Melee to Brawl to Project M and wouldn't to Smash 4
.
They can change into a representative for Earthbound.
This Leak, shows that there is 1 earthbound character.
This Leak, shows that there are new Clones and presumedly Alternate Costumes.

Take what we know from that leak and that a character needs 12 customizable moves... Makes sense to combine them. Or, I should rephrase, it would be awesome if they did. It would be a solution to their time constraint problem.

Don't use Project M as an example, it's unofficial and does not help you get a point across. Another thing to note is that aside from properties, Ness has never changed. The same goes to all of the original 12 except for very minor changes. They won't get changed just for an alt costume. If Lucas is gone, he won't have any saving grace because he played completely different from Ness. It would be a big **** you to the fans of Lucas, if we're completely honest.

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

Don't use Project M as an example, it's unofficial and does not help you get a point across. Another thing to note is that aside from properties, Ness has never changed. The same goes to all of the original 12 except for very minor changes. They won't get changed just for an alt costume. If Lucas is gone, he won't have any saving grace because he played completely different from Ness. It would be a big **** you to the fans of Lucas, if we're completely honest.

Umm, PM is a great example.

It shows that Ness can change and still be great. Just like, Lucas can change and still be great.

This Leak, says that one of those characters is gone.
Smash 4 brings in the new feature of radically different alts and customizable moves. I think it would be best if they both made the game as an ultimate Earthbound rep.

 

[samsparta21]

I don't doubt the leak anymore. What used to be flaws turned into points in its favor (DLC being the leaker just trolling, the thicker line under Kirby being an actual graphical oddity in the game) and it has already predicted not only Brinstar but a room on the Tomodachi Life stage that has never been seen before the Famitsu article.

 

[Opossum]

I don't doubt the leak anymore. What used to be flaws turned into points in its favor (DLC being the leaker just trolling, the thicker line under Kirby being an actual graphical oddity in the game) and it has already predicted not only Brinstar but a room on the Tomodachi Life stage that has never been seen before the Famitsu article.

The interesting thing is, that wasn't even the leaker. Someone on 4Chan randomly trolled by using the same username (due to being an anonymous site, after all). It wasn't even the real guy.

 

[SS-bros14]

In reply to your repost: I could see the triangle being a scroll option, but why is it in two places? On one screen, it's off to the side (like you would think it would be), but in the CSS it's on Ganondorf's face. Why? I saw someone else suggest that it's a pause/play button (supporting the idea that the leaks are part of a ESRB video-thingy), but that begs the same question. Why the different positions?

I really think this needs to be looked at seriously, but people seem to be too weary from speculation and debate (AKA, bickering and spamming) to attempt to dive into yet another aspect of the leak.

Yeah, I don't really have a solid prediction on it, my speculation has some, holes, that I'm working on.

 

[Gold_Jacobson]

Wow, just thought of this.

According to the Leak:

Wolf, Lucas, and Ice climbers are not there.

I've presented arguments on how it would be great if Wolf and Lucas were alts and their customizable moves went to the closest character of their franchise.

But what about Ice climbers.

Now, it's a stretch... but what if:

DUCK HUNT and ICE CLIMBERS are the retro square block. Both named after their game (which is kinda weird for a character to be DUCK HUNT), both possible AI assist characters. What if they were somehow alternates of each other.

Then we saved everyone that looks cut from the LEAK but Snake!

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Umm, PM is a great example.

It shows that Ness can change and still be great. Just like, Lucas can change and still be great.

This Leak, says that one of those characters is gone.
Smash 4 brings in the new feature of radically different alts and customizable moves. I think it would be best if they both made the game as an ultimate Earthbound rep.

Putting aside my opinion, I understand what you are trying to say, but the likeliness of that scenario, isn't really that great.

I don't doubt the leak anymore. What used to be flaws turned into points in its favor (DLC being the leaker just trolling, the thicker line under Kirby being an actual graphical oddity in the game) and it has already predicted not only Brinstar but a room on the Tomodachi Life stage that has never been seen before the Famitsu article.

I still feel there should be skepticism until it's outright confirmed to be true.

 

[Novice_Brave]

I thought mods/users came to the consensus that while the DLC list was fake, and there are (probably) 5 more unlockable characters - all of the veterans that were said to be cut are definitely cut, and that's why the little Fab 5 was made up entirely of newcomers. Was this stance challenged or changed? I would love for Lucas, Wolf, and IC to be back along with Chorus Kids and Dixie. But I thought we had come to a pretty accepted general conclusion that the "cut" characters are simply cut.

edit: of course all of this under the assumption the leak ends up being real

 

[Repiteo]

Umm, PM is a great example.

It shows that Ness can change and still be great. Just like, Lucas can change and still be great.

This Leak, says that one of those characters is gone.
Smash 4 brings in the new feature of radically different alts and customizable moves. I think it would be best if they both made the game as an ultimate Earthbound rep.

I think you're missing the point.

This leak specifies one Earthbound rep, Ness. It also deconfirmed Lucas if the crossed out picture is to be believed. This implies that Lucas will not be seen in any shape or form, at least in the vanilla game.

Also, I don't agree with your position in regards to making established characters alts.

"Perfect Earthbound rep"? Why not cut Luigi and integrate him into Mario for a "perfect Mario Brother rep"?

In several cases, there is no perfect rep. Only perfect reps. Lucas and Wolf are two of those cases. Making them into one character doesn't make the series more perfect. It devalues it. It takes two established and interesting fighters and turns them into a blander hybrid, attempting to please two crowds but fully satisfying neither.

Sakurai has gone on record saying that he recognizes people love characters and have incredible bonds with them. I think a majority of players who love, say, Wolf, would rather see him cut and later put in as DLC, then degraded to a mere costume for Fox or Falco.

Though, it looks like we'll not be seeing Wolf or Lucas period if the leak is to be believed. At least, not out of the gate. Methinks DLC is still a very likely possibility, just not the false DLC teased in the 4chan leak.

 

[Opossum]

I thought mods/users came to the consensus that while the DLC list was fake, and there are (probably) 5 more unlockable characters - all of the veterans that were said to be cut are definitely cut, and that's why the little Fab 5 was made up entirely of newcomers. Was this stance challenged or changed? I would love for Lucas, Wolf, and IC to be back along with Chorus Kids and Dixie. But I thought we had come to a pretty accepted general conclusion that the "cut" characters are simply cut.

edit: of course all of this under the assumption the leak ends up being real

I think it's still plausible that Wolf would be among those five. He was the last character unlocked in Brawl. I could see the same happening here.