Posting MUs are +67/-12/=506 in my favor [MATCHUP DISCUSSION]

[trash?]

Or: Everyone Panic And Try To Find A Bad Matchup Versus Sonic

Give good reasons for the matchups you talk about. No, "my friend can't beat my luigi so he's +3/-3" isn't a reason.

Tossing one out as a starter: I think jiggs has a pretty good, if not REALLY good match against wario. Wario being one of the only characters jigglypuff can literally just footstool -> mash rest against probably doesn't help him too hard, with that

 

[ItalianStallion]

Or: Everyone Panic And Try To Find A Bad Matchup Versus Sonic

Give good reasons for the matchups you talk about. No, "my friend can't beat my luigi so he's +3/-3" isn't a reason.

Tossing one out as a starter: I think jiggs has a pretty good, if not REALLY good match against wario. Wario being one of the only characters jigglypuff can literally just footstool -> mash rest against probably doesn't help him too hard, with that

YAY! You started one! I love you!

By the way, Jiggz can do that to Wario?? I have never seen nor played that matchup before.

 

[DMG]

Reflex has done well in the MU. I thought it looked like Jiggs advantage because Bair is really hard to deal with, but having comparable air speed also means Jiggs can't GG cheese him very well. It doesn't look easy for either character regardless of who wins.

Sonic is tricky. CCing may be the key to winning or doing much better vs Sonic. Like it really needs a strong look at.

 

[trash?]

He can. You can kind of force a rest to happen with a footstool->waveland->rest with some other characters, but versus wario you can just mash rest as soon as the footstool lands. I think it might be from the animation wario has when a footstool lands on him? I have no actual evidence for this, but whereas other characters will have an animation of them bending down from the footstool, wario's head just squishes down, and presumably, the hitbox on his head doesn't.

In theory: so long as jigglypuff has a height advantage, they get access to a risk-free kill move from this.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Doesn't Crouch Canceling Sonic's side B create an atuomatic teching situation, which, in reality, means an automatic jab reset situation in Sonic's favour? If Fox at 0 gets automatically knocked over, I can't imagine it's much better for the rest of the cast.

That being said; Bowser: A genuinely bad matchup for Sonic?

Probably not.

 

[DMG]

Side B I have no idea. I just mean in general. I know that I have punished certain things with CC into grab, which as someone like Ganon is a huge boon and gives me a fighting chance instead of just outright losing. Whether that was from Sonic being sloppy, or whether you can CC smart in even the lamer places of Sonic moves I can't say, but I think it needs to be explored more because that could give you the opportunity to try and space against him on the ground, with CC as a backup if you were too slow or are going to get hit. Instead of SHing around or being in the air or getting massive shield pressured.

If CCing literally does nothing to stop Sonic and doesn't even force him to react or predict to it in any way, then we're basically ****ed and should not play the game with that character involved lol

 

[trash?]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZMCidSNQgc

This is what I'm talking about, when I mention that. It's dead-simple to do, and so long as you stay over wario, he'll be horrified to do anything if he's past 40%.

 

[DMG]

I'm pretty sure that's only for on the ground though, and also only if Wario isn't doing attacks. If you footstool otherwise, you jump off without affecting the other character and it won't force Wario to do that crappy animation. So in the air, even if I miss with say Uair, that wouldn't work.

It's why footstooling offstage in Brawl wasn't super overpowered, because being in attack animations prevented your character from being affected by it. Otherwise MK and Wario and others would always go for it lol.

Jiggs still wants to be sideways to Wario and do Bair. Going above is a recipe for getting Uaired.

 

[Juushichi]

I think Puff loses to Wario. It seems like he does basically what she wants to do but better and his mobility allows him to match her in the air where no other characters are really able to do so, plus if she goes low to bair him, his weight is good enough that he can mash out dtilt or something dumb to trade and put her in a ****ty situation.

Also, I remember trying to CC vs Sonic. Maybe it was the characters (GnW/ROB/Falco)... but it didn't go so well.

I don't believe you should try to CC spin.

 

[BTmoney]

I personally don't understand how wario can do anything about spaced bair.
I'm not sure what his anti air options are since he's a relatively low range (and priority?) character with an emphasis on aerial play.

I see it as a winning MU for Puff.

 

[Bryonato]

I don't believe you should try to CC spin.

Pretty much. I can't think of a time where I cc'd spin and I came out in a favorable position

 

[Minor Pandemic]

How do you guys feel about Lucario vs. Sheik?

 

[9Kplus1]

I've never seen that MU done between two good players, but via playing it out in my head, I'd say reckon that Sheik takes it, albeit not by much. Lucario comes off as a character vulnerable to passive pressure (e.g, Jab -> Jab2 on shield -> retreat), and Sheik excells at that afaict. Conversely, Sheik is pretty easy for Lucario to combo once he gets hands on him; i.e, the reward for finally getting in is is pretty sweet (although, I'd imagine that Sheik can CC most of Lucario's stuff early on).

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Even GnW can CC Lucario's first jab, at the very least, possibly even the second up to a pretty decent percent.

 

[MegaGuy]

In terms of Wario v. Jiggs, off the top of my head, it's a slight edge to the puffball. Mostly because her stubby limbs are way stretchier than mine Wario's. Wario's BAir seems like it might almost compete with it, and Side B may help against a Puff on back air autopilot. Bite seems okay, too. Otherwise, it seems like it'd be a real slow, very methodical matchup. This could very well be the new Puff/Peach.

(This was written with little to no Jigglypuff experience, don't read it.)

 

[DMG]

Also, I remember trying to CC vs Sonic. Maybe it was the characters (GnW/ROB/Falco)... but it didn't go so well.

I don't believe you should try to CC spin.

Idk, I feel like unless you get floored that CC could be a great weapon vs him. Even if it does floor you, could combine it with teching to surprise them if they try to spin in and rise/do an aerial afterward. I didn't catch much of Jcaesar stream as far as Sonic went, so who knows what he's like in 2.6, but we should start "throwing things at the wall" and hope something sticks to the wall when it comes to Sonic lol

 

[Ace55]

I personally don't understand how wario can do anything about spaced bair.

Bair?

Bowser counters Falco, go!

 

[Juushichi]

Who knows about 2.6, but it didn't work for me in 2.5b.

 

[Kink-Link5]

CC'ing Sonic's side B in 2.5 will floor most characters.

 

[DMG]

Down B, not Side B. I could care less about Side B after the changes lol

 

[Juushichi]

down b wasn't all that fun either since he could jump/wd out of it on hit.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Current Sonic's side B is one of the most obnoxious moves the character has ever had in any build. It automatically sets up, can be jump canceled whenever the **** Sonic wants, has big horizontal knockback on aerial start up, and you can literally just Side B, JC, aerial side B, land, JC the move to have a constant nondedicated hitbox. Just because it doesn't zip across the stage instantly like down B, doesn't mean it should be overlooked or dismissed, because it really is a truly atrocious move.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Clone wars:
Ganon vs Falcon (+.5/-.5)
Fox vs Falco (+0/-0)
Link vs Tink (idk)
Lucas vs Ness (idk)

Somebody more knowledgable than I give us insight, please.

 

[Juushichi]

my arbitrary numbers with no explanation
4-6
45-55
55-45
???

 

[DMG]

There he goes again. Juushichi the monster theory crafter why don't you go out and play the game IT'S THE ONLY WAYYYYYY

 

[ShadowGanon]

If the Sonic actually goes in to hit you with the side-B or down-b (emphasis on the IF), the easiest thing to do is to just shield grab him. After that, punish accordingly. This is generally how I spank mindless side-B/down-B users. But if he doesn't and he just jumps. IDK. Dodge I guess. lol
Random question: I should probably know this, but what is CC?

 

[Paradoxium]

Cc is crouch cancel, you hold down when getting hit And you won't go anywhere if you are at low percents

A classic example is sheik's cc d-smash, cc the hit and immediately follow it up with a down-smash