Pokemon X and Y: Competitive Gen VI Discussion

[Gamegenie222]

Why this always happen to me Probably gonna do the same thing for regular Blaziken with the speed boost ability. As long as Breloom didn't get nerfed I'm straight though the weather nerfs and the damage nerfs on the staple fire/water/electric moves like ice beam/ hydro pump, thunderbolt and etc etc as well as weather getting nerfed is gonna take some getting used to. Also hows Mega Gardevoir and Mega Ampharos fairing?

 

[choknater]

mega gardevoir is legit!! mega ampharos... haven't seen it much yet. its stats are pretty low for a mega

breloom technically did get nerfed... spore no longer affects grass types (as well as sleep powder, stun spore, etc)

 

[Gamegenie222]

Man that sucks guess I'll get less of Breloom comebacks and less salt from players.

 

[UltiMario]

Low sweep is also 65 Power so it can't abuse it.

Fairy types also resist fighting and have SE STAB on Fighting

Gourgeist was introduced which is literally the hardest counter to breloom you could ever design

yeah he got nerfed

 

[mood4food77]

they basically told breloom to go on vacation and never come back

i've never seen a poke get nerfed directly so hard

 

[Gamegenie222]

Low sweep is also 65 Power so it can't abuse it.

Fairy types also resist fighting and have SE STAB on Fighting

Gourgeist was introduced which is literally the hardest counter to breloom you could ever design

yeah he got nerfed

they basically told breloom to go on vacation and never come back

i've never seen a poke get nerfed directly so hard

You gotta be serious. Now I'm gonna cry in a corner now cause my Best Friend poke got the stick and a poke that counters it completely

 

[choknater]

haha gourgeist is not very common

and grass types are not very widespread

breloom is still a threat to keep in mind. he is great at what he does.

but yes he was hit pretty hard

 

[The Real Gamer]

I can already tell this metagame is gonna be much more fun than Gen 5's.

Thank god for the weather nerf.

My god the average ladder player is still ****ing terrible. Hyper Beam Clawitzer... Really?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Hi peoples. Am Pokemon breeder and I'm thinking I'll mass-produce some Pokemon and give them away at some point.

Thanks to the breeding changes, it's now really easy to get a Pokemon with 5 perfect stats, so watch this space? :o

Edit: Also I literally just discovered this subforum. >.>

 

[UltiMario]

haha gourgeist is not very common

and grass types are not very widespread

Well... not yet. As the meta settles I see Gourgeist as well as other Grasses that beat loom like Mega Venusaur being more common, so eventually loom will have little room left to move.

 

[TL?]

Hey peoples. I'm thinking about running a few pokemons that are a little more under the radar. Lemme know if you think these have potential or if I'm going too deep into theorymon.


Rozerade:
10 more defense, access to dazzling gleam, immune to spore/powder, STAB against fairies. I doubt this thing is super good now, but it definitely seems fairly solid and substantially improved.

Nidoking:
I'm a little conflicted on where he might stand now. If you don't remember, he has sheer force. Ice beam, thunderbolt, and flame thrower have all been nerfed slightly. But his very powerful poison damage is more important now.

Tauros/Arcanine:
I haven't noticed anything new for these two. They are typically run with all attacks though, so I'm thinking they could possibly use the assault vest very well?

Granbull:
This guy is interesting to me as a support. Pure fairy seems great defensively unless poison and steel moves really do catch on. Intimidate is a great skill and he learns moves like heal bell, super fang, and roar. I was thinking he might be able to put in work on a phazing/hazard team.

Mega Manectric:
I'm not sure if this guy is underrated or actually mediocre. He seems like he's just volt switch + intimidate. However, that might be enough on the right team. Starting with lighting rod so he can potentially switch in for a boost, and then turn mega and lower your opponents attack is a nice setup. The fact that he puts up intimidate which takes effect, and then runs away so he can come back later with intimidate is pretty annoying. Staraptor could do this with U-turn but didn't get stab and wasn't as fast. I'm a little worried about his coverage. He seems like a good teammate for gyarados though.

 

[UltiMario]

Roserade will be good now since it can have Spikes + Sleep Powder + Leaf Storm and such

Nidoking is basically only nerfed, Adamant elemental Punches are still weaker than Timid elemental beams.

Arcanine actually might run morning sun now since weather is nearly non-existent except for Sand, and TTar isn't coming in on it anytime soon.

Tauros has been bad since 1999 nothing is changing this

Granbull might be good in like RU

Mega Manectric will be RU at best, it eats up a Mega Stone and it's outclassed by the UU Raikou.

 

[mood4food77]

but but....

subsalac berry anger point tauros is so much fun to run

 

[Circa]

Light Ball Pikachu is also fun to run, and its defenses just got buffed!

¡VIVA LA REVOLUCIÓN!

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I dunno why people keep thinking poison-type damage is going to be more relevant. I've seen a few scenarios where it's been suggested but overall, it's still one of the worst attacking types in the game and still has an immunity from one of the three most popular types in the game. Even with a buff coming from Fairies being weak to it, it's still not that great of an attacking type and still leaves a lot to be desired. If you need to kill Fairies, roll with steel-types. It's not like we were at a complete dearth of them last gen, as even with the poor amount of things it hit hard, there was still use from Bullet Punch, Gyro Ball, Flash Cannon, and Iron Head on specific things, even Meteor Mash if you wanna count Metagross.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Hydreigon + Azumarill = badass offensive core

Greninja is overrated.

Mega Gengar is most definitely Ubers material.

A lot of Megas are pretty underwhelming in general.

Talonflame is underrated and OU material.

Aegislash is one dangerous mother ******.

 

[Wave⁂]

Greninja is the most overrated thing since Burungeru/Nattorei.

Also, I don't think there will be a significant rise in use of offensive Steel-type moves in the long run in most tiers. Gardevoir, Sylveon, Togekiss die to anything physical, Whimsicott dies to anything, Azumarill and Mawile are hit neutrally.

 

[Turazrok]

Klefki way of the future :3

 

[xxmoosexx]

Talonflame is underrated and OU material.

Aegislash is one dangerous mother ****er.

I hope talonflame will be OU material. Probably my favorite pokemon in this Gen. I just think it'll be hard...4x SR weak. Ew.

Aegislash is one of my fav's.

 

[Plum]

x4 SR weakness isn't quite as crippling as it was last gen with the defog buff.
It's definitely still a risk though.

I'm not sure about Talonflame. Typing aside, it has pretty poor stats all around aside from its speed, which is a little disappointing because Gale Wings gives it priority on flying moves so you'll often not even care about its speed. I feel like you basically NEED the +2 from Swords Dance to start hurting anything remotely bulky with that ~80 base attack.

 

[UltiMario]

Even then, it's hard walled by Rotom-W, Heatran, and can do nothing but U-Turn against TTar. 4x weak to rocks is super relevant since it's only effective late game and someone can just get late game rocks back up and essentially neuter Talonflame, and 80 attack is doing it no favors. It's just too weak for OU.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Its typing allows it to force a lot of switches (it's one of the few physical sweepers that can take on Aegislash for example). Just needs the right opportunity to set up with SD/Bulk Up and then go to town with priority STAB flying while roasting any Steel that gets in the way with a Flare Blitz.

And everyone knows how dangerous STAB flying is in the current metagame (good riddance to Rain Hurricane spam).

Like any late game cleaner it's gonna need support of course but overall I could see it carving a nice niche in OU.

 

[ss118]

I'm pretty sure Shadow Sneak will wreck Talonflame. ._.

It's a pretty cool pokemon but overall it's underwhelming outside of the STAB priority Brave Bird. Maybe as a CB sweeper late game it can work well, but it seems too weak in general.

 

[The Real Gamer]

If it's already set up then yes... But then again not a lot of crap can deal with +2 Aegislash.

Just found a nice post on smogon:

Spoiler

Some people said earlier about using Rotom-W or Heatran to beat Talonflame. Let's see what happens if they try.

+2 252+ Atk Flying Gem Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 204-240 (84.29 - 99.17%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 136-162 (56.18 - 66.94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So Rotom-W cannot switch in even if Talonflame has already used its Flying Gem.

+2 252+ Atk Flying Gem Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 204-240 (68.22 - 80.26%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

That's bulky attacking Rotom-W.

Yes, stuff like Heatran and Tyranitar wall it. But Talonflame isn't supposed to try to sweep until those threats are eliminated. Isn't it the same thing with Outrage spammers? Dugtrio, for one, pairs incredibly well with Talonflame, getting rid of Heatran, Tyranitar, and any other Rock-types with ease.

Also just for fun:

+2 252+ Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 362-428 (108.38 - 128.14%) -- guaranteed OHKO after any damage (to break Sturdy)
+2 252+ Atk Flying Gem Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 282-333 (67.14 - 79.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Talonfmale Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 189-223 (45 - 53.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes
+2 252+ Atk Talonfmale Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Electrode: 196-231 (75.09 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes
+2 252+ Atk Talonfmale Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jolteon: 220-259 (81.18 - 95.57%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes

So...Talonflame really loves hazards support. And offensively checking it is simply not done, since:
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite ExtremeSpeed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 195-230 (65.43 - 77.18%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk (custom) (Move 1) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 271-319 (83.64 - 98.45%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def (custom): 107-126 (35.9 - 42.28%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Do I need to say what kind of damage Talonflame does back?

And other priority simply fail. I can conceivably see this guy being OU. If not, then it will definitely have a use there.

Heatran and Tyranitar are pretty much the only (known) OU Mons that can reliably counter this thing and both get trapped by Dugtrio.

 

[mood4food77]

greninja basically gets to carry choice band/specs and a life orb at the same time

it can do a lot of damage while being awesomely fast

too bad it's frail as ****

 

[Wave⁂]

I'm not a huge fan of Greninja because the base powers on all his moves are really low, bar Hydro Pump.

Also, I'm definitely going to be making a team with a CB Talonflame and four Healing Wish. And the sixth Pokemon will be Lunar Dance Cress.

 

[The Real Gamer]

If Staraptor can get away with being BL then Talonflame definitely has a shot at OU. Talonflame may not have the immediate power that Staraptor does but it more than makes up for that with more set up opportunities, better coverage, and priority flying STAB.

 

[UltiMario]

any calcs against 4/0 rotom are dumb, you're going to be forced to eat up your flying gem just to kill something else and it comes in for free on you and gives no ****s.

bulky rotom-w still walls it
Heatran still walls it
TTar still walls it
Intimidate still ruins it

It's 4x SR weak

It's got a really ****ty base 80 attack

It has no opportunity to set up SD because most the meta can kill it thanks to poor typing and flimsy defenses

It has trouble killing things after its eaten up its flying gem

This might be the most overrated thing since goddamn Electivire

Edit: Talonflame isn't exactly much better than Staraptor, it gets OH MAN PRIORITY BRAVE BIRD it's also a hell of a lot weaker and gets walled by big names. I can't even say it'd be BL since Rotom-H, Empoleon, and others deal with it handily. If tiers don't shift too much it's going to be UU.

 

[Wave⁂]

shut up ulti some of us want to dream

 

[UltiMario]

 

[mood4food77]

I'm not a huge fan of Greninja because the base powers on all his moves are really low, bar Hydro Pump.

Also, I'm definitely going to be making a team with a CB Talonflame and four Healing Wish. And the sixth Pokemon will be Lunar Dance Cress.

because of protean, he can have a flamethrower like move in any type he wants, his ice beam OHKOs dragonite THROUGH multiscale, he gets a 2HKO on support ttar with u-turn
he deceptively hits like a truck, a set someone posted on smogon that looks interesting was:

Greninja @ Flying Gem
Protean / Jolly
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 6 Def
Spikes
U-Turn / Taunt
Waterfall
Acrobatics

He one of the fastest users of spikes, he can stop the opponent from setting up or just scout, waterfall is a great physical move with a chance to flinch, and STAB acrobatics hurts like a *****

 

[The Real Gamer]

T-Tar and Heatran are just a U-Turn away from being Dugtrio trap bait.

Regardless I'm still gonna make a team centered around Talonflame and damn it it's gonna be fabulous.

 

[mood4food77]

talonflame will work in OU, don't get me (and ulti) wrong

it's just it's primary job is done way better by scizor

 

[Wave⁂]

Friend just made the best anti-Xerneas set:

Mewtwo @ Choice Band
Trick
Power Up Punch
Stone Edge
SolarBeam

Trick away Xerneas's Power Herb, proceed to type "TOPKEK" into chat. Opponent switches in Kyogre in a combination of confusion and rage, gets hit by an instant SolarBeam. Then proceed to sweep with near-perfect coverage with Fighting/Rock because pupunch is balanced

 

[mood4food77]

tyrantrum gets rock head as a hidden ability

dear god, his head smash is going to hurt...too bad he's pretty slow

 

[The Real Gamer]

10-1 record with my Talonflame team so far.

Team is looking too legit to quit.

 

[choknater]

i wouldn't count out poison offense just yet

one of my favorite pokes to use so far this gen is SD Toxicroak

drain punch and sucker punch both get walled by fairies... but poison jab breaks through!!

amazing switch in to waters like politoed, azumarill, blastoise, clawitzer, etc

i USED to think he beats greninja, but i run into greninjas with extrasensory and acrobatics.. that's two coverage moves. i don't really risk it anymore

 

[ss118]

So I played a good bit of gen VI on showdown and I really like the feel that I get with this generation. A few things:


1) Team preview still sucks. It might even be necessary, but I still dislike it. I don't hate its existence, I hate its requirement.
2) Aegislash is annoying. It always gets going, but isn't particularly threatening when it is. It made me run more EQ(s).
3) Talonflame is cool. It might be able to break the UU wall, but not by much.
4) Mega Kangaskhan is surprisingly decent. Double Fake Out -> Double Sucker Punch is decent for revenge killing, and then double Frustration hits hard while double Power-up punch / Drain Punch does the utility of your choice.
5) Crits feel so much nicer in general. Game changers, but not as overwhelming.
6) Azumarill is now decent, but not as hype as everyone was expecting(hoping). I find its typing making it laughably easy to get Belly Drums combined with Sitrus Berry, but then it just gets stopped in its tracks.
7) Defog is a welcome change. I run it on my Scizors just to try it out and I like it so far.
8) Mega Lucario is the best mega, but ice punch on my set isn't doing as much as I want it to. Maybe E-speed, SD, or even iron tail.
9) Mega Heracross, Banette, and Aerodactyl all suck **** and should never be used.
10) The previous point SERIOUSLY applies to Aerodactyl.
11) Points 9 and 10 are serious.
12) Metagross sucks now. Explosion nerf and steel losing resistances is too much... if Explosion was back to gen IV and it ran assault vest, maybe... hope for changes in Z(like Hypnosis in platinum).
14) I don't know if this generation is better or if people just aren't using gen V stuff yet. Regardless, Sticky Web is pretty mediocre because you use an ass pokemon to get it up and don't do much with it(excluding specific pokemon).
15) There is no point 13.

 

[mood4food77]

on lucario, use bullet punch, same power as e-speed on mega luc

bullet punch
cruch
close combat
swords dance

and trollfreak has to stop tickling our balls with aerodactyl, all he ****ing needs is head smash and brave bird and he'd be awesome

 

[ss118]

Lucario doesn't NEED ad IMO. Mega doesn't, at least