Meta Pokemon Stadium - Mewtwo General Matchup Thread

[Spirst]

[Mandatory listening when reading this thread]
​

This thread will be the central hub for analyzing Mewtwo's matchups and engaging in matchup discussion for Smash Wii U/3DS. Strengths and weaknesses of the character will be analyzed in relation to the remainder of the roster.

Mewtwo will be half a year behind the other characters in terms of metagame development so it's important to keep discussion constructive and try to play catch up as best we can.

General Rules:

• No Flaming. Respect the opinions of others even if you disagree. Let's not get heated on an online forum for a family-friendly game. Failure to abide by this will result in the wrath of the law.
• Human error isn't something worth serious consideration. Discussions will assume both characters are being played to utmost potential.

The following are suggested subtopics of conversation:

• Character strengths and weaknesses
• How to effectively approach/deter approaches
• Off-stage game
• Positional play
• Punishes/punishing
• Specific moves/strings that are strong for both characters
• Suggested custom movesets
• Stage strengths and weaknesses
• Overall score [NOTE: THIS IS NOT AS IMPORTANT DURING THE FIRST ROUND OF DISCUSSION]

Matchup Table
The numbers here represent the general opinion of the public and are subject to change.

| | | | | | | | | |
| ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:?
| | | | | | | | | |
| ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:?
| | | | | | | | | |
| ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:?
| | | | | | | | | |
| ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:?
||| | | | | | | |
| ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:?
|||||
| ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:?| ?:?

For reference:
+3 = major advantage
+2 = moderate advantage
+1 = minor advantage
±0 = even
-1 = minor disadvantage
-2 = moderate disadvantage
-3 = major disadvantage

When discussing, basing the post roughly around the following guideline will help keep things clean and organized.

• Pros
• Cons
• Stage picks
• Additional notes
• Theoretical score (see above)

Thanks to other matchup threads for laying the grounds as to how a good one should look.

 

[Spirst]

Matchup Discussion Schedule

WEEK 1:
WEEK 2:
WEEK 3:

 

[Spirst]

Okay, so this is open now that codes are being given out. For until a week after public release, this thread will be focused on general matchup impressions to get a feel for where Mewtwo is in relation to everyone else.

 

[Malcolm Belmont]

I may be incorrect but based on what i've seen i think Mewtwo is a good match up for Rosalina.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I like him.

Got some good aerials, most don't have much lag on them.

The only one I am kinda "eh" is about Bair.

That move is weird

 

[Malcolm Belmont]

I really like Mewtwo in general it's just i have not learned how to properly combo with him. At first i disliked him but now he is awesome :D

 

[megabbaut]

Watch out for Robins. Mewtwo is tall and floaty, which already gives Robins an advantage pressure-wise. Once you get caught in a single Arcfire/Arcthunder, you can kiss your butt god bye as you will get combo'd (or Nosferatsu'd by the pros) into oblivion.

 

[godogod]

I won't be able to play him until later tonight. Can anyone tell me how fast and heavy is? I heard he is still light, but smash wiki says he's a little heavier than brawl.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I won't be able to play him until later tonight. Can anyone tell me how fast and heavy is? I heard he is still light, but smash wiki says he's a little heavier than brawl.

He's a little bit heavier in Smash 4 than he was in Melee.

He's also faster than Melee as well.

 

[zephyrnereus]

holy... pac pan is a hard counter for mewtwo. fire hydrant can really mess up spacing and nullify M2's better attacks (those being Utilt, Usmash and Uair). the worst part is that the fruit can stop shadow ball at any percent and he can still run up to pick it up.

 

[godogod]

He's a little bit heavier in Smash 4 than he was in Melee.

He's also faster than Melee as well.

how heavy and fast in relation to other characters?

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

UNTIL MEWTWO IS RELEASED, THIS THREAD WILL BE LOCKED

[Mandatory listening when reading this thread]
​

This thread will be the central hub for analyzing Mewtwo's matchups and engaging in matchup discussion for Smash Wii U/3DS. Strengths and weaknesses of the character will be analyzed in relation to the remainder of the roster.

Mewtwo will be half a year behind the other characters in terms of metagame development so it's important to keep discussion constructive and try to play catch up as best we can.

General Rules:

• No Flaming. Respect the opinions of others even if you disagree. Let's not get heated on an online forum for a family-friendly game. Failure to abide by this will result in the wrath of the law.
• Human error isn't something worth serious consideration. Discussions will assume both characters are being played to utmost potential.

The following are suggested subtopics of conversation:

• Character strengths and weaknesses
• How to effectively approach/deter approaches
• Off-stage game
• Positional play
• Punishes/punishing
• Specific moves/strings that are strong for both characters
• Suggested custom movesets
• Stage strengths and weaknesses
• Overall score

Matchup Table
The numbers here represent the general opinion of the public and are subject to change.

| | | | | | | | | |
| ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:?

| | | | | | | | | |
| ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:?

| | | | | | | | | | |
| ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:?| ?:?

| | | | | | | | | | |
| ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:?| ?:?

| | | | | | | | | |
| ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:? | ?:?

Thanks to other matchup threads for laying the grounds as to how a good one should look.

Shouldn't Mewtwo vs Mewtwo be 50-50?

 

[Shanoa]

So far, he is feeling very promising. All of his attacks have their uses and he has great combos and killing potential.

-Disable as a response to ledge getup is really stupid

-D-Tilt > U-Smash is a tight combo but it works (perhaps due to improper DI).

-D-Tilt > U-Tilt/Grab/F-Air is great because D-Tilt is quick with so much range. Best poke imo.

-Up-B gets a lot of momentum so it's really good. Sadly you can't act out of it or ledge cancel as far as I know.

-Confusion can be jumped out of so I don't know how useful it is. With good accuracy you can sometimes ground foes with it if you land it below a platform.

That's all I have to say at the moment. Good luck with Mewtwo guys!

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I don't see him having amazing match ups against the sword characters. He has good, non-heavily disjointed range (kinda like DK) for the most part, mainly smashes that have the more serious disjoints to them. Swords naturally are disjointed (duh), and while Mewtwo's start up times aren't bad and his lag is decent, I don't know if he has the mobility to easily get past swords.

Just an idle, day one observation. Once he gets in with Dtilt I think he can wrack up the damage, but I think he's going to take more damage getting in than he deals back out.

 

[Putuk]

Hello Mewtwo fans, I played a bit of For Glory and got the following results:
-King Dedede struggles against Mewtwo from what I can tell (I only used him fighting my very first Mewtwo, so I didn't really know what he did yet).
-Ness seems to have an advantage, I've yet to lose to a Mewtwo as Ness.

 

[Robin1613]

Mewtwo has an amazing recovery just like he did in Melee, that coupled with his ranged aerials make him a threat offstage vs a lot of the cast.

If you manage to get a character offstage, PURSUE PURSUE PURSUE with back air of course.

 

[Sakuraichu]

Mewtwo's up air is a decent juggling tool and his up throw is good for getting opponents in the air from what I've seen so far.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

From what I've seen, Smash 4 ledge mechanics make Mewtwo a monster. Because he can ledge trump with an extremely fast Up-B, plus he can quick-snap the ledge if you're good, his offstage game is going to crap on some characters.

 

[phili]

A few things I've noticed about mewtwo in regards to general matchups:

I think Mewtwo may struggle against characters who can constantly pressure him, either with projectiles or speed. His reflector (sideB) is kind of slow, so it is hard to time it against faster projectiles. As far as I can tell, he also doesn't have great out of shield options, which is why I think he will have a hard time dealing with fast characters who apply a lot of pressure in neutral like sheik and pikachu.

As stated by @ BugCatcherWill , I think Mewtwo will have a good matchup against characters that have poor recoveries and struggle offstage such as Dr. Mario and Shulk. Back air seems to be a great tool for knocking characters away offstage and fair can kill as early as 60% offstage from my experience.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

I think Mewtwo may struggle against characters who can constantly pressure him, either with projectiles or speed. His reflector (sideB) is kind of slow, so it is hard to time it against faster projectiles. As far as I can tell, he also doesn't have great out of shield options, which is why I think he will have a hard time dealing with fast characters who apply a lot of pressure in neutral like sheik and pikachu.

I'd go far as to say Teleport is a decent Oos option for Mewtwo. If someone is putting some heavy pressure on you, you can always just Teleoprt away. Also Jump-cancelled UpSmash could work considering how powerful it became

 

[monkokaio]

Mewtwo feels pretty nice in this game. Some of his tail attacks, particularly back air, are so weird. Like it goes through whoever you're fighting sometimes.

It's weird to get used to.

 

[itsaxelol]

i think mewtwo is going to have a lot of problems. his size/weight just dont add up in terms of his frame data. just like in melee

 

[ORVO5]

Minor combo I've been using when near ledges:

Jump + fair + jump + fair + dair = Win

Also, can I just praise this guy's spacial momentum with certain attacks? Like Nair for example, you can get a lot of vertical momentum with it.. perfect for follow ups. My only wish was that he had more weight but it doesn't seem as bad as Melee. Though what's up with dtilt not hitting from the back? SMH.

 

[Kaladin]

It may just be because it's a fresh character and I'm not bad, but Pikachu seems to body mew2 thoroughly. Pika has better mobility with QA, has an equal or only slightly inferior offstage game to mew2, and combos him for days.

Edit: according to M2K himself, mew2 is "Depressingly bad. Worse than Melee"

 

[monkokaio]

Also, confusion is so good off stage. It's almost like a third jump. You can go so deep to gimp your opponent and return safely with confusion and teleport.

 

[iggyboy456]

So far, he is feeling very promising. All of his attacks have their uses and he has great combos and killing potential.

-Disable as a response to ledge getup is really stupid

-D-Tilt > F-Smash is a tight combo but it works.

-D-Tilt > U-Tilt/Grab/F-Air is great because D-Tilt is quick with so much range. Best poke imo.

-Up-B gets a lot of momentum so it's really good. Sadly you can't act out of it or ledge cancel as far as I know.

-Confusion can be jumped out of so I don't know how useful it is. With good accuracy you can sometimes ground foes with it if you land it below a platform.

That's all I have to say at the moment. Good luck with Mewtwo guys!

You can ledge cancel teleport, it's just really difficult. you have to come down at the ledge from an angle.

 

[ORVO5]

It may just be because it's a fresh character and I'm not bad, but Pikachu seems to body mew2 thoroughly. Pika has better mobility with QA, has an equal or only slightly inferior offstage game to mew2, and combos him for days.

Edit: according to M2K himself, mew2 is "Depressingly bad. Worse than Melee"

Then maybe he should change his name.. I love this Mewtwo. No offense M2K

 

[lltacx]

Maybe it's me, but i just can't seem to beat Sonic (CPU is no problem but on for Glory...)

 

[lilinuyasha]

Maybe it's me, but i just can't seem to beat Sonic (CPU is no problem but on for Glory...)

Pretty sure that's everyone, mate. Sonic's a tough character to beat in the properly skilled hands.

 

[LancerStaff]

Definitely true that he struggles against those who can keep pressure on him. Which is a ton of top tier characters.

Pit, who is a sword user for all intents and purposes, seems to fair well in using his range against Mewtwo. Mewtwo's range is largely in his Uair and Utilt. Outside of those moves it's somewhat lacking, having his Dtilt, which is easily bested by a SH aerial, and his Bair which is somewhat slow and the hitbox doesn't really match the animation. Mewtwo's KO moves are fairly slow outside of Uthrow, which is fairly weak and he lacks grab reach. Fair is really powerful but once people learn to respect it his KOing abilities will take a nosedive.

He's actually not all that dissimilar from Pit as a rough judgement. Good aerials, lots of situational KO moves, pretty good recoveries and combo games, and effective projectiles. The biggest difference is how Mewtwo won't be surviving as long due to his weight. Don't think he's as good as Pit though, probably C tier material.

 

[godogod]

how are his smash attacks, especially when compared to melee?

 

[WispBae]

inb4 "EVERYBODY, I HAVEN'T LOST TO X CHARACTER IN FOR GLORY (out of the 1 match I played with them where my opponent SD'd twice). HE HAS THE ADVANTAGE IN THE MU, 99.9999999999 to .7!!!

Anyways... He feels like lighter version of Ike. Just his Bair bugs me... It's not as long as it looks. Haven't found a way to utilize his down B though, maybe as a hard read in the higher percents? (Like a rest punish.)

 

[FullMoon]

I think Greninja will be trouble for Mewtwo. Greninja's Up-Smash is a great anti-air that kill him at 78% without any rage, Greninja is really fast with plenty of disjoints and he has a great advantaged state. Shuriken can really disrupt Mewtwo and while using charged ones is dangerous because of confusion, small ones are still quite useful against him.

Greninja's advantage state is really good so once he gets in, he really is going to bring the pain into Mewtwo. Meanwhile Greninja's disadvantage is pretty good thanks to Hydro Pump and his air speed making him hard to juggle, plus his fall speed helps him get to the ground earlier and reset to neutral.

I'm pretty sure Greninja will prove himself to be a bad MU for Mewtwo due to all his combos and kill power, coupled with the fact that Mewtwo is an easy target being tall and floaty, plus he dies really quickly.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

inb4 "EVERYBODY, I HAVEN'T LOST TO X CHARACTER IN FOR GLORY (out of the 1 match I played with them where my opponent SD'd twice). HE HAS THE ADVANTAGE IN THE MU, 99.9999999999 to .7!!!

Anyways... He feels like lighter version of Ike. Just his Bair bugs me... It's not as long as it looks. Haven't found a way to utilize his down B though, maybe as a hard read in the higher percents? (Like a rest punish.)

Jab into Disable is practically guaranteed on fast fallers

 

[godogod]

how are his smash attacks, especially when compared to melee?

anybody?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Minor combo I've been using when near ledges:

Jump + fair + jump + fair + dair = Win

Also, can I just praise this guy's spacial momentum with certain attacks? Like Nair for example, you can get a lot of vertical momentum with it.. perfect for follow ups. My only wish was that he had more weight but it doesn't seem as bad as Melee. Though what's up with dtilt not hitting from the back? SMH.

...So basically the Mewtwo Ken combo? XD

 

[Enoki]

I don't think we should make any assumptions about Mewtwo's specific matchups until we've had actual time with him. I doubt anyone is playing him at a competitive level, because he seems to be rather tricky character to use. I do agree that fast, combo based characters are definitely going to have a field day with his large, floaty body.


But some good news!! His tail isn't a hurtbox anymore!!

 

[EODM07]

inb4 "EVERYBODY, I HAVEN'T LOST TO X CHARACTER IN FOR GLORY (out of the 1 match I played with them where my opponent SD'd twice). HE HAS THE ADVANTAGE IN THE MU, 99.9999999999 to .7!!!

Anyways... He feels like lighter version of Ike. Just his Bair bugs me... It's not as long as it looks. Haven't found a way to utilize his down B though, maybe as a hard read in the higher percents? (Like a rest punish.)

I feel like it can be used for hard reads too. Another way could be to get your opponent further away from the stage. VERY gimmicky imo, but rather fun to see imo.

Also, Mewtwo's Side-B seems like it'll be great in Doubles. Acting as an extra jump and allowing you to save your teammate if they can't recover, and giving them that extra height.

 

[ORVO5]

...So basically the Mewtwo Ken combo? XD

Apparently it's not a "true" combo because it's escapable but if you pull it off yeah, basically lol.

 

[Someguyyoulikelydontknow]

I heard a Youtuber say once that if Mewtwo were to return to Smash 4, he deserved the legendary strength of a legendary Pokémon. I think that our glorious based Sakurai has done just that. Mewtwo hits HARD, and his aerial game is a thing of beauty. I've never air juggled so easy in my life. He Shadow ball hits really hard with some nice knockback to back it up. (However, I wouldn't recommend using it the air, as it has a weird windbox that constantly pushes of off the stage when I'm not grounded.) So far, I've discovered a combo against some characters that goes up throw > uair > bair, but given Mewtwos floaty playstyle, I'm not sure I see much combo potential outside of really good players. That said, hit aerials hit strong and decisively, and seem really safe. It's also a breath of fresh air to see a fair that kills better than his bair. I also love how his dair spike is essentially a faster version of Gdorfs dair (meaning it deals good damage and spikes super well.) Overall, Mewtwo has a bit of a learning curb, but if played to his strengths, Mewtwo will ride to high plasces this metagame.