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PM Falco?

Discussion in 'Falco' started by foxygrandpa, Oct 8, 2013.

  1. foxygrandpa

    foxygrandpa Smash Journeyman

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    What makes PM Falco better than Melee Falco? And his upb is still substantially shorter than melees?
  2. Rarik

    Rarik Smash Journeyman

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    RAR, DACUS, and due to the way his shine had to be coded he doesn't get stuck in shine after reflecting a projectile. There's might be more than that but I can't think of them.

    His Up-B is the same length as in Melee. If you disagree and can prove it, I'm sure PMBR would be happy to fix it.
  3. foxygrandpa

    foxygrandpa Smash Journeyman

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    ahh i see, thanks for the clarification. But Im still confused about how he's better. Aren't all of those things universal for all characters (except for daccus). Is there anything particular about the shine or dair that are different? I feel like his up throw and back throw are slightly different though. I've used back throw into a fsmash and my opponent wasn't able to escape. In particular, I feel like his lasers from the grabs are different. Could I get any clarification on that?
  4. GeZ

    GeZ Smash Lord

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    Even though everyone gets those tools it doesn't preclude that they don't work particularly well for him, and aid his already substantial game by adding more tools. Universal improvement is still improvement.
  5. foxygrandpa

    foxygrandpa Smash Journeyman

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    I realize that, but I meant falco specifically, I should have specified.
  6. 666blaziken

    666blaziken Smash Journeyman

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    In that case, he is only better in that he can jump out of reflection even after reflecting a projectile. Though PMBR wants to get rid of this because it is a bug, but it still makes him better.
  7. chrome12345

    chrome12345 Smash Rookie

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    I understand that they imported the melee frame data for Falco's move set, but I'm still not convinced at all that his up B is the same length. I play melee and P:M back to back, which I DI the same roughly, and there are certain times when I make it back to a stage that I do not make back to on P:M. I have heard the argument that things appear different in Brawl, and therefore what my perception of his Up B being shorter is actually the same distance. I'm still skeptical. Anyways, regardless of the fact if it is the same as melee or not, we can all agree that Falco's Up B recovery sucks. This is especially true when you consider all the other fantastic recoveries that many other characters in P:M have. All i would suggest is have it be increased like another half inch on the screen, or something along those lines. I don't think it would make him broken; if anything, it would make him more enjoyable. Can anyone shed some light onto this discussion? I would really appreciate it, thanks.
    ViewtifulHoe242 likes this.
  8. GeZ

    GeZ Smash Lord

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    The models for a lot of characters (if not all of them) are larger in Brawl than in Melee making certain distances seem shorter in comparison to this new size. That's probably what you're seeing. And Falco doesn't need the boost to his recovery. I understand all players want their mains to improve, but Falco is one of the most solid and scary characters in Project M and buffing him is unnecessary. Instead of despairing over your lackluster recovery, rejoice in your absolutely disgusting on stage game, space control, combo game, and disruption.

    Edit: and gratz on the first post. Welcome to the forums!
    JaiCho and Nguz95 like this.
  9. DrinkingFood

    DrinkingFood Smash Master

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    PMBR has stated many times that they have resized the entire cast in accordance with melee, excepting Bowser and ofc new characters. Proportions are sometimes slightly different though, for example, falco's head is slightly larger.
    GeZ likes this.
  10. GeZ

    GeZ Smash Lord

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    I hadn't heard that. Thanks. I'd rephrase my previous statement to say that the differences between the models could cause some confusion when measuring distance, which is why a lot of players must think moves are going different distances.
  11. ViewtifulHoe242

    ViewtifulHoe242 Smash Journeyman

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  12. standardtoaster

    standardtoaster Ante Up

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    there is a short time where you can reverse grab the edge after sideb
  13. SpiderMad

    SpiderMad Smash Master

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  14. ZDEG

    ZDEG Smash Cadet

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    So GeZ, is that why Falco's wavedash seems so small in comparison to Melee Falco's?
  15. GeZ

    GeZ Smash Lord

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    I'd say so, since I'm pretty sure all the rest of his data was directly ported from melee.
  16. HK_Spadez

    HK_Spadez (@'o')=@ t('o't)

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    Yeah... I play melee and pm back to back as well and something just seemed off about pm falco?

    I seem to be able to get grabbed out of shine when I Dair Shffl -> shine
    but this never happens in melee

    and I just feel slow and clunky with him in pm. its like his run speed went down or something.

    Maybe its the bigger sizes of things in brawl or the extra floatyness. but all of it combined just makes falco in melee feel much better than falco in pm.

    anyone else feeling this? or do i just need more time getting use to pm?
  17. chrome12345

    chrome12345 Smash Rookie

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    I feel the exact same way. Something is off, and no one wants to admit it.
  18. GeZ

    GeZ Smash Lord

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    The game feels different. It's not melee. So the melee vets will feel a little different, but there is no "covering up" of anything. I play with one of the developers pretty often and can assure you, as he's assured me, that Falco has the exact same data as melee, minus the few intentional changes they've given him. No johns guys, readjust or find a new character.
    Kally Wally likes this.
  19. HK_Spadez

    HK_Spadez (@'o')=@ t('o't)

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    The thing is. If things are bigger due to brawl meshes and what not. Then why not transfer things like up B length over based on a ratio instead of base value?

    Up B may go the same "pixel length" as melee but if the stages are larger and the character itself is larger then it doesnt cover as much area meaning it wont function the same.

    I think things regarding length like wavedash and up B's should have been transfered over from melee based on a ratio to how big the char is.
    JaiCho likes this.
  20. Kally Wally

    Kally Wally Smash Ace

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    It does not, however, intend to be a 1:1 Melee clone.
    It does not intend to be a 1:1 Melee clone.
    PROJECT M IS NOT MELEE.
    Star ☆, Lordling and GeZ like this.
  21. mas_torque

    mas_torque Smash Apprentice

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    It's the animation. He's definitely the same, but the look of the game makes him feel clunky compared to melee. The animations are way cleaner imo in melee, where as the Brawl look makes him and a lot of other characters look bouncy or spongy.

    It really throws me off when I pay attention to it, but if you focus on fixing your spacing it starts to feel a lot better
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2014
  22. standardtoaster

    standardtoaster Ante Up

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    Falco's model size is exactly the same as melee. His upb is not exactly the same as melee but as close as we could make it. We hope to make it match exactly in the future when we can. Same with fox.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2014
  23. Chesstiger2612

    Chesstiger2612 Smash Lord

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    I like the new laser options with wavebounce and b-reversal. Doubled my SD count though when practicing
  24. Justkallmekai

    Justkallmekai Smash Apprentice

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    I feel that Falco's moves seem to flow better in Pm than in Melee, like I feel that dashing USmash feels better and flows better than in Melee.
  25. HK_Spadez

    HK_Spadez (@'o')=@ t('o't)

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    well dashing up smash doesnt work in melee ._.

    and i dont know. i like his dash dance and movement in general a bit less in PM
  26. Justkallmekai

    Justkallmekai Smash Apprentice

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    Yea....That's one thing I hate from going to P;m to Melee.
    Same, I like his Dash dance movement in Melee a lot, it looks cool and feels nice.
  27. Chesstiger2612

    Chesstiger2612 Smash Lord

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    You generally dont DD that often with falco so I like his new studd more than i dislike the stuff thats missing
  28. HK_Spadez

    HK_Spadez (@'o')=@ t('o't)

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    i just play falco like he is in melee. what new stuff is good to integrate to falco play in PM?
  29. mas_torque

    mas_torque Smash Apprentice

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    lolwut

    and besides breversals/wavebouncing what new stuff does he have? i feel like i have fewer usable tools than in melee
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014
  30. SpiderMad

    SpiderMad Smash Master

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  31. mas_torque

    mas_torque Smash Apprentice

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    "besides"

    10chars
  32. SpiderMad

    SpiderMad Smash Master

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  33. mas_torque

    mas_torque Smash Apprentice

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    is that really even useful for falco? i'd just nair or dair, or sh shine dair/bair
  34. Chesstiger2612

    Chesstiger2612 Smash Lord

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    Well its obviously a detail but quite useful if you do zoning lasers. Also that "surprise laser" when you run away then wavebounce so you fire the laser which will catch your opponent offguard and you reverse your momentum so you can get a nair sometimes.
  35. DEHF

    DEHF Brawl Backroom Member

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    PM Falco sucks.
  36. Chesstiger2612

    Chesstiger2612 Smash Lord

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    recovery issues? :p
  37. Justkallmekai

    Justkallmekai Smash Apprentice

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    I beg to differ.
  38. nameless.ez.™

    nameless.ez.™ ez.™

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    There is no frame 1 invincibility on shine anymore. I get grabbed out of my shine as fox a good bit, it's kinda lame.

    I feel falco, just like many other melee top tiers(except fox),isn't as good in game as he previously was and for obvious reasons. Everyone that wasn't a top tier pretty much got an overhaul. A lot of these overhauls gave them tools to take on spacyies. While melee top tiers ether got nerfed to some extent or slight buffs.

    Notice, I didn't say he or the others are bad, they just aren't as great in a new setting with all the same old tools.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
  39. DEHF

    DEHF Brawl Backroom Member

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    Yeah, I get hit offstage and never come back.
    mas_torque likes this.

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