PM Alternate Stage Suggestion Thread

Juken · Jun 25, 2015

With the new beta, alternate stages that can be selected by holding L while picking a stage have been added. These alternatives seem to be stages within the same series or another version of the same stage (like Infinite Glacier with the Brawl version as an alt)

There are plenty of stages that lack an alternate stage, so lets brainstorm and think about what stages we'd like to see as an alternative, be it casual or competitive oriented. Maybe even suggest tracks for the stages and draw layout ideas. Just remember that we'd have to think about whether it would fit in Project M or not, so no Dragon Ball Z stages!

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Stages as of the 3.6 beta that don't have alternative versions:
- Bowser's Castle
- Fountain of Dreams
- Final Destination
- Smashville
- Shadow Moses Island
- Kongo Jungle
- Onett
- Big Blue
- Port Town Aero Dive
- Flat Zone 2
- Luigi's Mansion
- Jungle Japes
- Pirate Ship
- Spear Pillar
- Training Room
- Halberd
- Frigate Orpheon
- Pictochat

Stages that were in Brawl, but are not present in Project M as of the 3.6 beta:
- Bridge of Eldin
- Rainbow Cruise
- 75m
- Mario Bros
- Mario Circuit
- Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 and 1-2
- Final Destination (Brawl version)
- Green Greens

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Here's some ideas I've had since the announcement of ASL for PM:
- Bowser's Castle
Mewtwo2000's "Vs. Bowser" remake could be the alternate for casual play. It's a stage that switches between the 3 Vs Bowser levels from Super Mario 64, all in one match. It's dynamic and fun, and the theme's nostalgic. Could use some of the tracks from the download to replace the unfitting Mario Kart music that's attached to Bowser's Castle currently.

- Final Destination
Has Brawl's Final Destination as the main stage to fit with Battlefield having Melee BF as the alternative. The stage could use the Melee Final Destination ledges and blast zones, just like how the new Melee Battlefield uses Brawl's. Or it could be the default Brawl Final Destination with the killer ledges (maybe either version could have Master Hand flying around in the background) or some more visuals.

- Training Room
A smaller training room with no boundaries like Smash 4's Balloon fight. You can't die unless you fall into a vertical part of the blast zone, otherwise you just go flying to the other side of the stage. Or it could be something crazy like a Break the Targets stage.

- Big Blue & Port Town Aero Dive
These two stages could be combined, with Big Blue as the alternative for the sake of consistency with older stages being alts (Sector Z alt, Melee Battlefield alt, etc). They could have a new stage fill the slot...

One could be the Subspace Emissary stage made by sluigi123. That one has a bunch of color choices, and the stage is dynamic with numerous platform changes. Really good stage. There's even a "big, small, or crazy" version of the stage, so it could have an alternative that's another size and a different color.

- Shadow Moses Island
The "PM Shadow Moses" by Olimario1892 could be an alt stage, if not a main one that places the Brawl version into the alt slot.

- Kongo Jungle & Jungle Japes
These two could be combined, with Jungle Japes being the main stage, like how Melee Yoshi's Story is the main and the N64 version is the alternative. Would free up a slot for another stage (dunno one).

- Rumble Falls
Could get the Jungle Hijinx stage made by Mewtwo2000, Scout, and KTH
- Smashville
Some new stage that shows another environment or season that's in animal crossing. Maybe a winter stage, the shopping plaza from New Leaf as a walk-off, or a stage that takes place on top of the train you ride at the start of a couple of the AC games.

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I hope that these examples provide as something useful to kick-start this thread. Let's treat this like the Arts and Alts thread, but for stages.

ECHOnce · Jun 25, 2015

Theytah actually released a revamp/re-texturing of the older "competitively- viable" Boswer's Castle to match the looks of the 3.6 one. It'll probably become one of the more popular choices; I'm not actually sure why it wasn't made sooner and just incorporated as the alternate stage by default. Found here.

EDIT: the training room could also use the Brawl Wifi room as an alt. Halberd could have a non-hazard or stationary version...honestly, most of the rending stages could. I'd imagine the major issue to incorporating them all would be size constraints, whether for most peoples' SD card limits, or the SSS not being able to load too many alt stage options at once.

IronChar · Jun 25, 2015

boswers castle should have melee peach castle as an alt?

CBO0tz · Jun 25, 2015

I was just thinking about making a post similar to this, although I would've put it in the Arts and Alts thread, it's generally where all talks of cosmetic game design are discussed.

BUT regardless, yeah your ideas for those stages are pretty much spot on what I had in mind. I'll put down some extra suggestions as well.

If Congo Jungle and Jungle Japes were combined, we could replace either's original slot with the Mushroom Kingdom and Mushroomy Kingdom stages.

Imo Fountain of Dreams needs an HD remake.

Big Blue could get a custom legal stage where players only fight on the Blue Falcon and accompanying drop-through platforms, while Port Town brings back Mute City for an Alt stage.

A stage based on Lucas' home town of Tazmily Village could be made, while Onett could be placed as an alternate.

Flat Zone 2 = Flat Zone 1, obviously.

I would've liked it if Luigi's Mansion had a legal stage where you fight on just the balcony or the roof.

Pirate Ship could have a version where you fight on Dragon Roost Island.

And Spear Pillar could have Cerulean Cave as an alt stage too.

Juken · Jun 25, 2015

CBO0tz said:
I was just thinking about making a post similar to this, although I would've put it in the Arts and Alts thread, it's generally where all talks of cosmetic game design are discussed.

BUT regardless, I was thinking of pretty much the same changes you had in mind for the ASLs.

If Congo Jungle and Jungle Japes were combined, we could replace either's original slot with the Mushroom Kingdom and Mushroomy Kingdom stages.

Mushroom Kingdom would be cool, but I've seen some people complaining about too many Mario stages now with new Delfino, new Luigi's mansion, and Bowser's castle being added at once.

What are some stages from Brawl that aren't in Project M already? I could add that to the list in the OP.

CBO0tz · Jun 25, 2015

Juken said:
Mushroom Kingdom would be cool, but I've seen some people complaining about too many Mario stages now with new Delfino, new Luigi's mansion, and Bowser's castle being added at once.

What are some stages from Brawl that aren't in Project M already? I could add that to the list in the OP.

Well there's the Bridge of Eldin, Poke Floats, Rainbow Cruise, Great Bay, Venom, Icicle Mountain, Brinstar Depths, and 75m.

Chaos Wolf · Jun 26, 2015

Off the top of my head, I could see either the Great Bay from Melee as the alternate to Pirate Ship or perhaps something like some of the islands you find the triforce pieces on.

Spear Pillar needs Distortion World as its Alt. Stage, no doubt, Bonus points for wonky physics. (Banned already!) Would Origin Giratina be allowed if Platinum came out after SSBB?

Maybe Halberd we could have the place you fight the turret or a pseudo shadow moses with Heavy Lobster's arena?

Fountain of Dreams could possibly have a gag alt stage in a Final Destination version of "RPG" Computer Virus's area. With random attacks showing up from various enemies?

Sour Supreme · Jun 26, 2015

Correction to the OP, Poke Floats wasn't in Brawl. But I need it. Now.

Poke Floats needs to come back.

GFooChombey · Jun 26, 2015

Psykid said:
Correction to the OP, Poke Floats wasn't in Brawl. But I need it. Now.

Poke Floats needs to come back.

Legalize Poke Floats and put it with Spear Pillar.

GunBuster · Jun 27, 2015

i came to say what someone's already said - as much as i love Thwompy Bowser's castle for Casual fun matches, a version of bowser's castle that's a little more competitively friendly would be a godsend.

personally i'd like to see maybe some of the existing stages combined so there's room for some stages based on games not yet in smash, like Golden Sun or Advance Wars.

also, who else loves the "castle siege that doesn't change" stage?

Sandfall · Jun 28, 2015

Juken said:
Stages that were in Brawl, but are not present in Project M as of the 3.6 beta:
- Bridge of Eldin
~~- Legalized Poke Floats~~
- Rainbow Cruise
- Great Bay
- Venom
- Icicle Mountain
- Brinstar Depths
- 75m

Great Bay, Venom, Icicle Mountain, and Brinstar Depths were not in Brawl. Mewtwo2000 and DSX8 kinda ported a few to Brawl, but it's not possible to recreate them all accurately with current stage modding limitations (Great Bay would probably be the closest one). The actual list of "stages that were in Brawl, but not in PM" is:

- Bridge of Eldin
- Rainbow Cruise
- 75m
- Mario Bros
- Mario Circuit
- Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 and 1-2
- Final Destination (Brawl version)
- Green Greens

Rᴏb · Jun 28, 2015

- Bowser's Castle: no idea
- Fountain of Dreams: Green Greens?
- Final Destination: Rainbow FD or something like this
- Smashville: KK Slider version
- Shadow Moses Island: a competitive version
- Kongo Jungle: HD version
- Onett: competitive version or a completely new Mother stage
- Big Blue: competitive version or Mute City
- Port Town Aero Dive: competitive version
- Flat Zone 2: competitive version
- Luigi's Mansion: competitive version
- Jungle Japes: I'd honestly be fine with getting rid of this stage for something completely new
- Pirate Ship: no idea
- Spear Pillar: replace it with Poke Floats 1 & 2
- Training Room: a completely different training room meant for different utilities
- Halberd: a day version that has zero hazards
- Frigate Orpheon: I'd honestly be fine with getting rid of this stage for something completely new
- Pictochat: competitive version

Draco_The · Jun 28, 2015

^ too many competitive versions.

ThePrincessZelda · Jun 28, 2015

I'd like a alt for Pirate ship, perhaps Outset Island or something??? Or maybe something completely different, like Ganondorf's Castle.

Draco_The · Jun 28, 2015

ThePrincessZelda said:
I'd like a alt for Pirate ship, perhaps Outset Island or something??? Or maybe something completely different, like Ganondorf's Castle.

The music would be a problem for Ganondorf's Castle.

ThePrincessZelda · Jun 28, 2015

Draco_The said:
The music would be a problem for Ganondorf's Castle.

Probably.

Sour Supreme · Jun 28, 2015

I would really dig it if the PMDT fixed up the Fairy Island stage on the vault and made that the alt for Pirate Ship.

Juken · Jun 29, 2015

Sandfall said:
Great Bay, Venom, Icicle Mountain, and Brinstar Depths were not in Brawl. Mewtwo2000 and DSX8 kinda ported a few to Brawl, but it's not possible to recreate them all accurately with current stage modding limitations (Great Bay would probably be the closest one). The actual list of "stages that were in Brawl, but not in PM" is:

- Bridge of Eldin
- Rainbow Cruise
- 75m
- Mario Bros
- Mario Circuit
- Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 and 1-2
- Final Destination (Brawl version)
- Green Greens

Thanks. I was going by what people were saying since I don't have Brawl with everything unlocked, just use it for PM.

I guess I could have just looked at the wiki though.

RomeDogg · Jul 6, 2015

I think this set-up if possible makes the most sense in order to get the most of the stage slots based on our current options.
1. Bowser's Castle, Mario Bros. Brawl (Or Mario Circut Brawl, 75m Brawl)
-Both are from the Mario universe and this would enable more returning stages
2. Fountain of Dreams, Put With Halberd for new stage slot
-Both are Kirby stages and this would enable a new slot for returning stages
3. Final Destination Melee, N64 Final Destination (or Brawl Final Destination)
-The Two best FD Versions
4. Smashville, Tutorial Stage N64
-Both similar in design and havent we always wanted the Smash64 Tutorial Stage? Am I right?
- N64 Tutorial Stage http://www.ssbwiki.com/images/f/f5/TutorialStage.jpg
5. Shadow Moses Island, PMDT made Metal Gear Stage
-No ideas come to mind and the PMDT needs a spot
6. Kongo Jungle N64, Kongo Jungle Melee
-Its a no brainer
7. Onett, PMDT made Earthbound/Mother Stage
-No ideas come to mind and the PMDT needs s spot
8. Big Blue, SSE: Bomb Factory Falcon Flyer/Meta Ridley Fight w or w/o Ridley
-Both would be Fzero stages but one will be less obnoxious
-SSE: Bomb Factory Falcon Flyer https://youtu.be/-S5YNWqsIik?t=477
9. Port Town Aero Dive, Mute City
-Both are similar styled and are Fzero stages
10. Flat Zone 2, Flat Zone Melee
-ts a no brainer
11. Luigi's Mansion, Mushroom Kingdom II
-Both are from the Mario Universe and this would enable more returning stages
12. Jungle Japes, Version without water/hazzards (Or SSE: Jungle full sized)
-This stage I always felt would be more fun this way, for the other choice some of us miss the original SSE: Jungle
13. Pirate Ship, Great Bay
-Both are Zelda Stages and this enables more returning stages(Plus Great Bay is highly on demand to return)
14. Spear Pillar, Poke Floats
-Both are Pokemon stages and this enables more returning stages(Plus Poke Floats is on high demand)
15. Training Room, Brawl Online Training Room (or Melee Test Stage)
-Its a no brainer for the BOTR but the Melee Test Stage would be sick too
-Melee Test Stage https://youtu.be/674kJrQKR1g?t=50
16. Halberd, Put with FoD for new stage slot
-Both are Kirby Stages and this will enable a new slot for more returning stages
17. Frigate Orpheon, Brinstar Depths
-Both are Metroid Stages and this would enable more returning stages
18. Pictochat, Snag The Trophies Stage Melee
-What Else goes with Pictochat? Plus some of us have always wanted the Snag the Trophies Stage for battles.
- Snag The Trophies Stage Melee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwL5DHbLKkA

Also I would do these Swaps to add more classic stages
1. One of Peach's Castle N64 models for Peach's Castle Melee
-Its a no brainer and enables more returning stages plus we can just keep the hi-def version
2. One of the Dreamland N64 models for Green Greens(SD Remix Version?)
-Both are Kirby stages and this enables more returning stages plus we can keep the Hi-Def version
-SD Remix Version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IrDL7T0hcA
3. One of the Metal Cavern models for Rainbow Cruise
-Both Stages are from Super Mario 64 and this will enable more returning stages
4. Brawl Lylat Cruise for Venom Since the Lylat Cruises are almost the same
-Both are StarFox stages & this will enable more returning stages(Plus does anyone even like the brawl version of Lylat?)

For the new stage slot (by putting Halberd and FoD together)
1. Mushroom Kingdom Melee & Mushroom Kingdom N64(Or Mushroomy Kingdom Brawl)
-Both are from SMBs 1 and this will enable more returning stages
2. Or any other combination of past Mario stages not included.

That gives us all the past Smash64/Melee/Brawl Stages except (Also this is including the "or ____ Stages" from my list.)
-Battle Field N64
-Ice Mountain Melee
-Final Destination Brawl
-Mushroomy Kingdom Brawl
-Mario Circut Brawl
-Bridge of Eldin Brawl
-75m Brawl
-Brawl Lylat Cruise
-Other normally non-playable stages

Note: all the Mario Stages I included can be interchanged between all Mario universe stages. Its just dependent on which are most in demand I guess.

Juken · Jul 6, 2015

RomeDogg said:
I think this set-up if possible makes the most sense in order to get the most of the stage slots based on our current options.
1. Bowser's Castle, Mario Bros. Brawl (Or Mario Circut Brawl, 75m Brawl)
-Both are from the Mario universe and this would enable more returning stages
2. Fountain of Dreams, Put With Halberd for new stage slot
-Both are Kirby stages and this would enable a new slot for returning stages
3. Final Destination Melee, N64 Final Destination (or Brawl Final Destination)
-The Two best FD Versions
4. Smashville, Tutorial Stage N64
-Both similar in design and havent we always wanted the Smash64 Tutorial Stage? Am I right?
- N64 Tutorial Stage http://www.ssbwiki.com/images/f/f5/TutorialStage.jpg
5. Shadow Moses Island, PMDT made Metal Gear Stage
-No ideas come to mind and the PMDT needs a spot
6. Kongo Jungle N64, Kongo Jungle Melee
-Its a no brainer
7. Onett, PMDT made Earthbound/Mother Stage
-No ideas come to mind and the PMDT needs s spot
8. Big Blue, SSE: Bomb Factory Falcon Flyer/Meta Ridley Fight w or w/o Ridley
-Both would be Fzero stages but one will be less obnoxious
-SSE: Bomb Factory Falcon Flyer https://youtu.be/-S5YNWqsIik?t=477
9. Port Town Aero Dive, Mute City
-Both are similar styled and are Fzero stages
10. Flat Zone 2, Flat Zone Melee
-ts a no brainer
11. Luigi's Mansion, Mushroom Kingdom II
-Both are from the Mario Universe and this would enable more returning stages
12. Jungle Japes, Version without water/hazzards (Or SSE: Jungle full sized)
-This stage I always felt would be more fun this way, for the other choice some of us miss the original SSE: Jungle
13. Pirate Ship, Great Bay
-Both are Zelda Stages and this enables more returning stages(Plus Great Bay is highly on demand to return)
14. Spear Pillar, Poke Floats
-Both are Pokemon stages and this enables more returning stages(Plus Poke Floats is on high demand)
15. Training Room, Brawl Online Training Room (or Melee Test Stage)
-Its a no brainer for the BOTR but the Melee Test Stage would be sick too
-Melee Test Stage https://youtu.be/674kJrQKR1g?t=50
16. Halberd, Put with FoD for new stage slot
-Both are Kirby Stages and this will enable a new slot for more returning stages
17. Frigate Orpheon, Brinstar Depths
-Both are Metroid Stages and this would enable more returning stages
18. Pictochat, Snag The Trophies Stage Melee
-What Else goes with Pictochat? Plus some of us have always wanted the Snag the Trophies Stage for battles.
- Snag The Trophies Stage Melee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwL5DHbLKkA

Also I would do these Swaps to add more classic stages
1. One of Peach's Castle N64 models for Peach's Castle Melee
-Its a no brainer and enables more returning stages plus we can just keep the hi-def version
2. One of the Dreamland N64 models for Green Greens(SD Remix Version?)
-Both are Kirby stages and this enables more returning stages plus we can keep the Hi-Def version
-SD Remix Version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IrDL7T0hcA
3. One of the Metal Cavern models for Rainbow Cruise
-Both Stages are from Super Mario 64 and this will enable more returning stages
4. Brawl Lylat Cruise for Venom Since the Lylat Cruises are almost the same
-Both are StarFox stages & this will enable more returning stages(Plus does anyone even like the brawl version of Lylat?)

For the new stage slot (by putting Halberd and FoD together)
1. Mushroom Kingdom Melee & Mushroom Kingdom N64(Or Mushroomy Kingdom Brawl)
-Both are from SMBs 1 and this will enable more returning stages
2. Or any other combination of past Mario stages not included.

That gives us all the past Smash64/Melee/Brawl Stages except (Also this is including the "or ____ Stages" from my list.)
-Battle Field N64
-Ice Mountain Melee
-Final Destination Brawl
-Mushroomy Kingdom Brawl
-Mario Circut Brawl
-Bridge of Eldin Brawl
-75m Brawl
-Brawl Lylat Cruise
-Other normally non-playable stages

Note: all the Mario Stages I included can be interchanged between all Mario universe stages. Its just dependent on which are most in demand I guess.

You'd have to keep in mind that the stages share music, so the atmosphere for something like Halberd being an alt stage would be kind of awkward to hear Dreamland music on, and vice versa. Same thing for the Mario Kart/75m with Bowser's Castle, and it's already weird hearing things like Rainbow Road and Luigi's Circuit theme in Bowser's lava castle.

RomeDogg · Jul 6, 2015

Oh I didn't realize that. Almost all of my stages would work though. I don't really care what the music is playing when I am playing matches anyway. Hopefully they make it so when you hold the L trigger it will change the music too. Also I love the alternatives in PM 3.6 So far.

ThePlacidPlatypus · Jul 9, 2015

It should be noted that Kongo Jungle would get its original version as an alt after the HD remake is released.

As for some ideas.

Jungle Japes- Congo Jungle (Melee)

Spear Pillar- Pokefloats

Port Town- Mute City

Big Blue- The area where you fight Meta Ridley in SSE

Luigi's mansion- Something on the roof of the mansion or the balcony.

I also feel like Pirate Ship has a lot of potential for alts. I'd love to see a PM original WW stage, especially if they can't make Great Bay function like it does in Melee. WW just has so many great locations that could make for interesting stages. There's Forsaken Fortress, Dragon Roost Island, Forest Haven, and Outset Island to name some.

As for Brawl stages, the only ones I really miss are Bridge of Eldin, Mario Circuit, and Green Greens.

Sandfall · Jul 9, 2015

ThePlacidPlatypus said:
I'd love to see a PM original WW stage, especially if they can't make Great Bay function like it does in Melee.

Great Bay has already been ported to Brawl. It mostly works well, it just needs animations and (if possible), SFX. Tingle probably wouldn't be possible though. If we were to include it, however, the water would have to be made swimmable in order to maintain a consistent design (i.e. you should always know what happens when you jump into water, regardless of the stage).

As a note, I'm not saying we're planning on including it, but it's an option we're considering.

RomeDogg · Jul 22, 2015

MegaMissingno · Jul 22, 2015

Draco_The said:
^ too many competitive versions.

IMO you can never have enough, and the beauty of ASL is we have room to accommodate lots more right alongside their original versions. Yes, I know it's not practical for a tournament ruleset to incorporate a ton of stages, but I still enjoy having them all for friendlies and such. Even my 'casual' friends prefer these kinds of stages, and it's always cool to have more.

In particular I really dig the idea of a competitive Pictochat, it's one stage I've always liked the concept of and wished it could just have a variety of simpler, non-hazard forms. Come to think of it, we currently don't have even one competitive transforming stage, so why not have Pictochat try and fill that niche?

And as I've said a billion times before, I need need need K.K. Slider 24/7 as a Smashville alt.

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