PM 3.5....better than Smash Wii U?

[Celestis]

Project M fans love all those things too. But if someone says they prefer Project M, there's absolutely no question what they prioritize, first and foremost: strong competitive gameplay.

I have to disagree on that only cause I have a friend who could give two two monkey droppings about competative gameplay and finds my interest in it to be mildly annoying. But loves PM for how the characters are better and the game is quicker. He loves Bowser's ridicules power, Z-Samus speed and Squirtle's... Trolliness, and the stages.

 

[Paquito]

I have to disagree on that only cause I have a friend who could give two two monkey droppings about competative gameplay and finds my interest in it to be mildly annoying. But loves PM for how the characters are better and the game is quicker. He loves Bowser's ridicules power, Z-Samus speed and Squirtle's... Trolliness, and the stages.

Broad generalizations never apply to every individual

*edit* Plus, the generalizations I described might not be 100% accurate. Pwnz0rz Man pointed out that you can argue Project M does fan-service better, as far as skins are concerned.

My overarching point is that when you ask which game is "better", it's pretty subjective, based on what an individual player is looking for. So threads like this are really teasing out what things are important to the people responding.

 

[Frank Weast]

PM is fun but Smash 4 in my opinion tends to hold my interest more due to the fact I prefer the play style of 4 better. Also this is the best feeling Smash bros game to date with speed and balance IMO. It reminds me of ultra street fighter 4

 

[Paquito]

PM is fun but Smash 4 in my opinion tends to hold my interest more due to the fact I prefer the play style of 4 better.

Can you get into specifics about the mechanics you like? I haven't had a chance to play sm4sh yet.

 

[Prince Longstrok]

Not bashing this post or this user in particular (okay, maybe this post), but **** like this annoys the Hell out of me. "It's doesn't have X mechanic from Y game, so it's not competitive".

Bull ****, **** that noise. Sm4sh has all the reason in the world to be even more competitive than the titles before it, and for all of the right reasons, too. Sora LTD figured out in Brawl that standard landing lag was a great idea and made for a consistent and accessible game, while still introducing a bevy of new tech and matchup knowledge to the series. It might have been a controversial entry within the competitive facet (Brawl, that is), but there's no denying that it did a lot of good for the series. Smash 4 not only does the same things, simplifying the game to make it more accessible among them, but it also does the same things that make Project M a success in the tournament scene. It (Sm4sh) sees plenty of balances throughout the roster, takes advantage of the latest hardware to bring us a good-looking experience, and most of all, is relevant. It's the latest entry in the SERIES that we all love and support as a whole (or at least should be tryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyying to), and is going to introduce a wealth of new players to the scene, each bringing fresh perspectives and new discoveries to this game. Sm4sh is competitive, does have the capacity to be competitive, and for once has the support of the publisher to help you people along already. ****ing embrace it.

On top of all of that, Smash 4 has a ton of new techniques to discover, new combos, new setups, new matchups... everything! The least the Smash community could stand to do would be to play the Hell out of this game, take it to its limit and beyond just like the old school players of Melee were able to do, and drive this community forward.

Take part in it, do your job in the Smash community to make this a respectable series that does get actual consideration at tournaments from players like us in the Project M boards. Advance this game, help it along, help yourselves. Who knows, you, you, might end up being the next big player to advance Sm4sh's metagame and bring something new to the table. The Wii U version isn't even out yet, and @Jackson and players like him have been pushing the envelope with what's possible, and he's a Melee veteran for crying out loud. Not stopping him from having the right attitude. Chain-grabs won me my first Sm4sh tournament, and it's thanks to players like Jackson that allow for that sort of thing. Saying **** like "well, this game doesn't have wavedashing, so it's not competitive" is ***-backwards bonkers. It's a close-minded way of approaching this game, and thoughts like that don't even give it a chance to help the community. People who say these sort of things only hurt the community.

What makes a competitive fighter? The roster? The tech? The look of the game? No, none of these things do. The interactions between the players playing the game are what make the game competitive. Using whatever means at their disposal to dominate their opponents and leave them coming right back up to that booth over, and over, and over, with the smarter player up at the top seat at the end of the night. That's competitive. The techniques you employ, the matchups you know, that's all on you to master and use to the fullest extent. They themselves do not make a game competitive, your use of them does. Smash has been only getting closer and closer to being an airtight fighter of its own respect, embracing traditional values of 2D fighters that will make this game more respectable to outside players.

Start embracing and enjoying Sm4sh for the game it is. Of course it's going to be unenjoyable when you go in with your expectations set to "well, I hope it has combos like Maylay", or, "well, I hope it has combos like Project M".

Project M. Melee. Brawl. 64. They are all their own titles, each with unique ways to succeed in, and Smash 4 is no different. It's its own game, and the only other thing I have to say to people *****ing about how it's 'not competitive' is to nut up and get gud.

Oh noe! Someone has a different opinion than me! Better throw up an overly long, angry rebuttle.

Seriously, all i did was give my non-directed opinion. Perhaps you should vector that anger somewhere else.

 

[Frank Weast]

Can you get into specifics about the mechanics you like? I haven't had a chance to play sm4sh yet.

Sure no problem. While I'm not a huge fan of the throw distance, the game overall has a great smoothness, characters from brawl feel better than before even though most of the moveset is the same except for a few characters like zero suit. Shields break faster and as a marth player since melee shield breaker is finally useful. Rolling is a little harder to punish but you'll get used to it. Air dodges have lag now so you can punish people for spamming it to much. I love the new ledge mechanics due to no more easy ledge kills so now you have to keep up the attack off stage making it more aggressive. Also if you spike someone on stage they bounce up but it can be tech

 

[WinterShorts]

PM is fun but Smash 4 in my opinion tends to hold my interest more due to the fact I prefer the play style of 4 better. Also this is the best feeling Smash bros game to date with speed and balance IMO. It reminds me of ultra street fighter 4

I totally agree with you. Melee / PM may be the best at being competitive, but they're barely feeling like Smash Bros. games, I'd say Brawl and SSB4 had the closest gameplay of what it was supposed to be.

 

[Fortress]

Oh noe! Someone has a different opinion than me! Better throw up an overly long, angry rebuttle.

Seriously, all i did was give my non-directed opinion. Perhaps you should vector that anger somewhere else.

I think you misunderstand me, I'm not angry at you, but I thought that you brought up a good time to point out that there's a reason Smash isn't really taken seriously outside of its own community, because of threads like this, with titles like "Which game is better", which always ends in "it's not Maylay", which always ends in some huge flame war.

 

[WinterShorts]

I think you misunderstand me, I'm not angry at you, but I thought that you brought up a good time to point out that there's a reason Smash isn't really taken seriously outside of its own community, because of threads like this, with titles like "Which game is better", which always ends in "it's not Maylay", which always ends in some huge flame war.

I'll take note of that for the next thread I make, that thread not being anytime soon.

 

[Frank Weast]

I totally agree with you. Melee / PM may be the best at being competitive, but they're barely feeling like Smash Bros. games, I'd say Brawl and SSB4 had the closest gameplay of what it was supposed to be.

Well with me pm/ melee are very aggressive games which people enjoy including myself, but I don't put them in being more competitive just more aggressive while brawl and smash 4 ( more so brawl) while slower puts me more on the edge because it rely heavily upon mind games. Smash 4 is a balance of both. So you know different folks different strokes

 

[Paquito]

I think you misunderstand me, I'm not angry at you, but I thought that you brought up a good time to point out that there's a reason Smash isn't really taken seriously outside of its own community

And then you got mad at me for pointing out why you're mistaken, and got especially mad when I backed up my points with quotes from Smash's director, whose validity you refused to accept. Learn to keep your anger in check when someone disagrees with you, and you just may find yourself in less flame-wars

 

[Fortress]

And then you got mad at me for pointing out why you're mistaken, and got especially mad when I backed up my points with quotes from Smash's director, whose validity you refused to accept. Learn to keep your anger in check when someone disagrees with you, and you just may find yourself in less flame-wars

I get mad at you because you're acting like a gigantic **** who is still tugging at his own **** over his own posts.

Ignore lists exist for a reason.

 

[Paquito]

Sure no problem. While I'm not a huge fan of the throw distance, the game overall has a great smoothness, characters from brawl feel better than before even though most of the moveset is the same except for a few characters like zero suit. Shields break faster and as a marth player since melee shield breaker is finally useful. Rolling is a little harder to punish but you'll get used to it. Air dodges have lag now so you can punish people for spamming it to much. I love the new ledge mechanics due to no more easy ledge kills so now you have to keep up the attack off stage making it more aggressive. Also if you spike someone on stage they bounce up but it can be tech

Interesting. So I heard complaints that "edge-guarding" was nerfed, giving me the impression that it was impossible to do, but it sounds like it's forcing players to take on more risk to secure a kill. What exactly did they change with those mechanics?

 

[WinterShorts]

And then you got mad at me for pointing out why you're mistaken, and got especially mad when I backed up my points with quotes from Smash's director, whose validity you refused to accept. Learn to keep your anger in check when someone disagrees with you, and you just may find yourself in less flame-wars

I get mad at you because you're acting like a gigantic f aggot, who is still tugging at his own d ick over his own posts.

Ah f**k what have I done?

 

[Fortress]

Nothing that hasn't been going on in every thread this guy shows up in or starts. Just throw him on your block list, he's going to just keep going.

 

[Paquito]

I get mad at you because you're acting like a gigantic f aggot, who is still tugging at his own d ick over his own posts.

 

[WinterShorts]

Nothing that hasn't been going on in every thread this guy shows up in or starts. Just throw him on your block list, he's going to just keep going.

OK?

 

[Frank Weast]

Interesting. So I heard complaints that "edge-guarding" was nerfed, giving me the impression that it was impossible to do, but it sounds like it's forcing players to take on more risk to secure a kill. What exactly did they change with those mechanics?

You can't ledge stall like the other iterations of smash. Attempting to due so you lose invincibility and are vulnerable to attacks unless you up b. Also you can't ledge guard you pop off if someone up b and can grab the ledge they will, but you can also force them off to kill them because if they grab the ledge and you jump off and regrab while they are on it they pop off and you can follow up with something

 

[Black Mantis]

Interesting. So I heard complaints that "edge-guarding" was nerfed, giving me the impression that it was impossible to do, but it sounds like it's forcing players to take on more risk to secure a kill. What exactly did they change with those mechanics?

Those who get early gimps and live long get rewarded. Also, this has been an fgc staple for a long time.

http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Capcom_vs._SNK_2/Walkthrough#K_Groove
http://eng.tekkenpedia.com/wiki/Rage
http://streetfighter.wikia.com/wiki/Revenge_Gauge

 

[Paquito]

You can't ledge stall like the other iterations of smash. Attempting to due so you lose invincibility and are vulnerable to attacks unless you up b. Also you can't ledge guard you pop off if someone up b and can grab the ledge they will, but you can also force them off to kill them because if they grab the ledge and you jump off and regrab while they are on it they pop off and you can follow up with something

Oh nice, I always thought ledge grabbing abuse was a bad mechanic

 

[Frank Weast]

Oh nice, I always thought ledge grabbing abuse was a bad mechanic

Same I really hope you get a chance to try the game and see how you like it also there are some tournament videos up on clash tournaments YouTube channel if your curious about how the 3ds version plays

 

[Prince Longstrok]

I think you misunderstand me, I'm not angry at you, but I thought that you brought up a good time to point out that there's a reason Smash isn't really taken seriously outside of its own community, because of threads like this, with titles like "Which game is better", which always ends in "it's not Maylay", which always ends in some huge flame war.

*shrug* fair point i spose.

I have a few friends who are i to fighters, and they seem to respect the smash scene, but i. Cant seem to get them into it unfortunately. :/

Oh, and for what its worth, i dont even play melee ^-^. I like to imagine Project M is the best of both the casual and competitive worlds ^-^. But, thats just me.

 

[Prince Longstrok]

I totally agree with you. Melee / PM may be the best at being competitive, but they're barely feeling like Smash Bros. games, I'd say Brawl and SSB4 had the closest gameplay of what it was supposed to be.

If by "what its supposed to be" you mean a big clash of nintendo franchises and lotsa random fun stuff, ill give that to you. Casual play can be hella fun to **** around with sometimes, even in PM.

Cept for timers... PM loses its **** when you pick up a timer. :|

 

[ShadowGanon]

If by "what its supposed to be" you mean a big clash of nintendo franchises and lotsa random fun stuff, ill give that to you. Casual play can be hella fun to **** around with sometimes, even in PM.

Cept for timers... PM loses its **** when you pick up a timer. :|

Soooooo many timer kills.

 

[Zoa]

@Rhubarbo

Thank you for that post. It nicely summarizes my thoughts about Smash 4.

 

[WinterShorts]

If by "what its supposed to be" you mean a big clash of nintendo franchises and lotsa random fun stuff, ill give that to you. Casual play can be hella fun to **** around with sometimes, even in PM.

Cept for timers... PM loses its **** when you pick up a timer. :|

Timed battles are the worst my friend....

 

[Prince Longstrok]

Timed battles are the worst my friend....

From what i remember seeing, its something to do with how they changed the physics, and the timer item didnt like that one bit.


Though, it is kinda funny being able to soar past the upper blast zone by jumping x)

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

Holy crap dude, take off your fan boy goggles. I'm quoting the director of Melee, Brawl, and Sm4sh. The things he says about the design of these games are... facts.



You're right, you didn't mention it, I mentioned it, as a fact explained by the director of the game. You insisted I was wrong, and are currently trying to backtrack.

To be fair, Sakurai didn't say that the game itself was in between the two. He only said that the speed of the game is, and that is a fact. Overall I would say that Smash4 is a lot more on the Brawl side of how it feels, only that it's slightly faster paced. Maybe the meta-game for Smash4 will improve, but at least based upon what I've seen of it and how landing a hit leads to no significant follow-up more often than not, I'll stick with PM.

I'm hopeful that they'll make it more appealing, but I'm not expecting anything.

 

[Fortress]

*shrug* fair point i spose.

I have a few friends who are i to fighters, and they seem to respect the smash scene, but i. Cant seem to get them into it unfortunately. :/

Oh, and for what its worth, i dont even play melee ^-^. I like to imagine Project M is the best of both the casual and competitive worlds ^-^. But, thats just me.

Hey, man, to each their own, right? I'm a Project M player, too, it's been my primary title ever since I entered the competitive circuit. All I'm driving at is that the community could stand to do a lot better and not shoot down new entries in its own series just because it's not a 1:1 carbon copy of the game that kicked the competitive scene off. Melee got the game on the board for the competitive aspect, and later entries have served only to make the experience more airtight and consistent. That's the point I'm making, is that fundamentally, within what defines a well-built fighter, Smash has only been getting better and better since Melee. Brawl may be boring to watch, but it introduced to its series a lot of core mechanics that are seen in all other fighters. Smash is (and has been, since Brawl) taking big steps to developing itself as a true fighter. We as the community behind the game need to support its growth, not shoot it down and hope that the FGC at large will continue to support some 13-year-old relic that's going to go stale. Every Smash title has brought great things to the table, and it'd be good of everybody to keep the 'One Unit' mentality fresh in their minds.

based upon what I've seen of it and how landing a hit leads to no significant follow-up more often than not

I was gonna dig up some combo videos, but, I'm so sleepy after work. They're out there, trust me. I myself was pulling off the new Jackson chaingrabs. Sheik's a combo machine, among other characters.

 

[Fortress]

Ah, crap, double post.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

I was gonna dig up some combo videos, but, I'm so sleepy after work. They're out there, trust me. I myself was pulling off the new Jackson chaingrabs. Sheik's a combo machine, among other characters.

I don't really doubt that there are combos, but with how easy it is to vector out of many hit follow-ups, the overall combo game doesn't look too interesting yet. I'm still going to give the game time to grow and figure it out from there.....

Though that Mario FLUDD needs to GTFO, or improve to be a useful part of his toolkit cause it looks to be as useless as it was in Brawl. That makes me a sad Mario main.

 

[Fortress]

I don't really doubt that there are combos, but with how easy it is to vector out of many hit follow-ups, the overall combo game doesn't look too interesting yet. I'm still going to give the game time to grow and figure it out from there.....

Though that Mario FLUDD needs to GTFO, or improve to be a useful part of his toolkit cause it looks to be as useless as it was in Brawl. That makes me a sad Mario main.

The thing with vectoring is that it actually has the potential to kill you really easily when not vectoring would not. Think of it like intense combo/survival DI. I could vector straight up to try and get further from Link's uAirs constantly poking me, but I run the risk of dying much faster. I could also vector down to prevent that, but get combo'd for a century.

One of my friends from the next city over plays a mean Sm4sh Doc Mario, dude's a combo monster. Also, there's a lot of tech in Sm4sh that I'm excited for. The roll-cancelling stuff sound great.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

The thing with vectoring is that it actually has the potential to kill you really easily when not vectoring would not. Think of it like intense combo/survival DI. I could vector straight up to try and get further from Link's uAirs constantly poking me, but I run the risk of dying much faster. I could also vector down to prevent that, but get combo'd for a century.

One of my friends from the next city over plays a mean Sm4sh Doc Mario, dude's a combo monster. Also, there's a lot of tech in Sm4sh that I'm excited for. The roll-cancelling stuff sound great.

From what I've seen of people vectoring so far, it's just a lot of extra safety and a reset of the neutral game. Granted, this is all from watching as I won't buy the 3DS game (Hate the control scheme and don't want to break my circle pad), and I don't have a WiiU yet.

Sm4sh Doc is what I wanted Mario to be. I'm probably spoiled though, since PM Mario is likely the best version of the character that has or ever will exist in a Smash game.

 

[Engage]

From what I've seen of people vectoring so far, it's just a lot of extra safety and a reset of the neutral game. Granted, this is all from watching as I won't buy the 3DS game (Hate the control scheme and don't want to break my circle pad), and I don't have a WiiU yet.

Sm4sh Doc is what I wanted Mario to be. I'm probably spoiled though, since PM Mario is likely the best version of the character that has or ever will exist in a Smash game.

This video is an example of great Smash 4 meta and gameplay.

And this one below, just for fun.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

This video is an example of great Smash 4 meta and gameplay.

It's just a few highlights of "stylin" though, it doesn't really appeal to me for a sense of the actual metagame. Are there actual matches I could watch that might give a better impression?

 

[Engage]

It's just a few highlights of "stylin" though, it doesn't really appeal to me for a sense of the actual metagame. Are there actual matches I could watch that might give a better impression?

Oh yeah, ofcourse. Here:

One of the most hype smash 4 tourny matches of recent.

 

[Paquito]

*snip*

Just watched the vid, thanks! I'm waffling over how I feel about knocking opponents further when you're at higher damage percentages. I'm worried it would create a rubber-band effect on the gameplay, but there are a lot more factors involved there.

To be fair, Sakurai didn't say that the game itself was in between the two. He only said that the speed of the game is, and that is a fact.

Eh, look at the context though. He begins that statement by pointing out that Melee targeted a hardcore base, while Brawl targeted a casual base. Him highlighting the speed metric implies that that's what he's using to create a game (that he thinks) strikes a middle ground between the needs of those two groups.

 

[Engage]

Just watched the vid, thanks! I'm waffling over how I feel about knocking opponents further when you're at higher damage percentages. I'm worried it would create a rubber-band effect on the gameplay, but there are a lot more factors involved there.

Check the videos I posted for more Smash 4 goodness, you'll see how this game is its own thing. It's on a new engine and everything, it's not Melee 2.0, nor Brawl 2.0, it's Smash 4, and it's looking fine.

 

[Dragoomba]

I'm always going to support the Smash Bros. series. I've already purchased Smash 3DS day one, and have been playing it all month long, clocking over 3,000 matches. The same will happen for Smash WiiU.

When 3.5 drops though, I don't see myself going back. Smash 4 is fun, and will be fun for another couple months or so, but the lack of depth and comparatively slow gameplay isn't going to keep me hooked for years to come like Melee and Project M do.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

3.5

Not even a contest anymore.