Pivot Smashing/Ftilting with C-stick INFO +Video

[Conda]

From my testing, you can only input a Fsmash during the first couple of frames of a dash. Even on Marth, one of the kings of dash lengths. If you use the method we're used to on the 3ds on the Wii U - by using the A button + reverse control pad direction - you can perform pivot Ftilts and Fsmashes the same as we can on the 3ds. Good length and easy enough to execute, but it can be wonky to get the ftilt or fsmash specifically due to strict timing.

If you use the c-stick, the most distance you are going to get is maybe 1/2 your character at most. You barely get any movement, and I can't see it being worth for much other than for tiny adjustments like that. It lacks the range and controllability of normal pivot tilts/smashes with the A button.

C-stick pivots may still be useful (convince me), but using the A button is the only way to get full functionality pivot ftilts and pivot fsmashes, even if the timing window to specify which you'd like to do is strict.

 

[Flamecircle]

Well, that's a pity. Guess we'll have to get used to tilt Cstick and using the A button to smash right.

 

[SonicZeroX]

What are your inputs when trying to do c stick pivots? Is it dash -> tap back c stick, or dash -> turnaround -> tap back c stick.

 

[Conda]

What are your inputs when trying to do c stick pivots? Is it dash -> tap back c stick, or dash -> turnaround -> tap back c stick.

Either way. You get a dash attack if you wait too long after pivoting and use the cstick, and a smash when you are basically within a few frames after initiating the pivot. I am pressing in the opposite direction. Dash-turnaround results in the uninterruptable trunaround animation, and i could not get a smash or tilt during a turnaround window with the cstick. Kept trying differenttimings and methods to no avail.

Using the A button gives you a wider window to do stuff and is immediately noticeable.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Does the control stick at least make pivot smashes easier than the 3DS circle pad?

Also do running upsmashes with the cstick have any strange problems?

 

[Conda]

Does the control stick at least make pivot smashes easier than the 3DS circle pad?

Also do running upsmashes with the cstick have any strange problems?

Running smash is like brawl iirc, cant play now.

Using the left stick and A button makes smashes a little easier i suppose but that is just due to the stick being easier to use, there are still timing requirements for smash vs tilt out of pivots. That, or I haven't figure it out entirely.

 

[Conda]

After more use, the c-stick is certainly not great for flexible pivot use, as shown in the video. Only good for a tiny distance pivot fsmash. I'm alternating between c-stick for smashes (flick hell) or for tilts (awkward for a 10+ year smasher to adjust to), try to see which I like better.

 

[Dissent]

Am I doing it wrong then?
Skip to 20 seconds for real time performance.

 

[Conda]

You're running into the pivot, so it looks like you're getting a lot of slide in the pivot. But try a standing pivot dash - the window for getting a pivot fsmash is super tiny and doesn't let you get much distance. Using the A button gives you a wider window.

You can definitely perform pivot fsmashes with the Cstick. The point is you don't get much slide in movement, which is one of the great benefits of pivot anything. It's still useful as a slight stutter step f-smash application, but other than that I'm not sold on it yet.

Using the A button seems better and worth mastering. The disadvantage is that you have to input differently for a tilt or fsmash (still haven't figured it out, but for now I'll take either lol). But it's worth mastering as you get more distance compared to a standing pivot fsmash with the c-stick.

 

[Dissent]

To very easily tilt out of pivot just roll the stick. Example: Dash left, half-circle down (down left, down, down right, right) and press A.

 

[Conda]

I'll try it out.

I've also learnt that you can get decent length from your pivot if you let the slide happen for a bit before initiating the c-stick smash. With Marth, I can slide further than in the OP video this way. However, this isn't similar to ftilt pivots as you have to let the slide engage, at least it's the only way I could get it to work.

It is slower compared to pivot ftilts and standing quick pivot fsmashes (the ones shown in the video). It also halts your sliding, giving you less of what makes pivot options so great.

Due to these shortcomings, I feel it is still useful, but basically as a more reactive/juking option. With pivot ftilts, you literally mash both directions and tilt and you're sliding across the ground and tossing your quick jab out. It just feels more naturally applicable in combat as a movement option, which to me is the whole point of pivots.

You can still c-stick smash pivot to stutter step quickly, so that'll be useful for everyone, just not in the same applicable ways pivot ftilts are (you get slidey mobility goodness). This may vary across the cast though.

Let's keep talking about it and discovering what kind of pivots we can do with the cast.



So to summarise so far:

Using the A button, you can pivot ftilt and pivot smash. Input timing/technique is slightly different to get a smash versus getting a tilt. Practice practice!

With c-stick set to tilts/attack, you can pivot ftilt reliably without ever accidentally fsmashing. You just hold the opposite direction on the left stick to pivot (of course) and press the c-stick in the same direction. Bam, tilt. And a nice slide.

With c-stick set to smash attacks (default), you can pivot fsmash reliably and easily. From a standing position, you can pivot and input a c-stick smash quickly within a very tiny window, and you barely get any slide range. It's basically a stutter step.
If you want more range and a wider window, you have to be patient and let your pivot slide/turnaround animation engage - in this window, you can fsmash with the cstick. However, due to the timing restrictions, it's slower as well.


Am I missing anything? Surprised not more people are talking about this, but I suppose we're all busy playing I'm just excited to be playing with my new c-stick, we've been wondering what would be possible with it for a while.

 

[Conda]

To very easily tilt out of pivot just roll the stick. Example: Dash left, half-circle down (down left, down, down right, right) and press A.

After working more on it, I think I've got it. Leave a mental second before you hit the A button after pressing the opposite direction.

If you press the opposite direction + A very close together, you'll get a smash. However, sometimes you'll get an ftilt. The timing is so specific and you can be inputting what 'feels' to be the same thing but get an ftilt or smash. It's a tricky input window to get right, and I believe may be in the range of 'eh?' if you want to reliably get an fsmash each time using the A button in the heat of battle.

If you want to ignore this tricky input window and get your guaranteed ftilt without risk of fsmashing, you can just wait a few milliseconds until you press A (you gotta be feelin' that timing, but it feels natural after a while) and you'll get a tilt for sure.

Alternatively, if you have c-stick set to tilts, you can use the c-stick to do guaranteed ftilt pivots with a loose timing window.

 

[Azazel]

I happy with C-sticking. I've been able to consisstently Pivot Tilt, but with the C-stick I can consistently Pivot Smash.

 

[Flamecircle]

@ Conda

So, I've been toying with pivotsmashing without using the C-stick, and it was being a pain because the most minor mistime turns into a pivot tilt. But then I had a thought: What if I did the pivot-smash motion with the controlstick AND the C-stick?

The results are actually pretty good. I THINK it's actually what we're looking for, with the added bonus of being able to charge the pivot smash.

You're gunna have to use the smash C-stick, though, but I don't think that it's that bad- as long as you flick it in midair, it doesn't screw up your momentum that much.

 

[Conda]

@ F Flamecircle

Right, I think that's the input I mentioned above. You get extra length, but you can't input it immediately - you have to wait until your slide window begins.

If you do it too fast, as you said, you get barely any distance. It's just a turnaround fsmash with some stutter step action going on. Still useful but not quite pivottastic. May be different with other characters, I was just focusing on Marth due to his dash.

If you do it as you said in the turnaround window, you get the slide but the fsmash still stops most sliding momentum. To boil it down, it seems all we're doing with this method is basically letting your character slide from the pivot for a tiny bit before doing the fsmash.

Very different from pivot tilts, which carry your pivot sliding while attacking. You ftilt while sliding back, which is what I find nice about the AT.

 

[Flamecircle]

Woops. I probably should have read the thread fully.

Are you sure you used to be able to slide pivot smash in any other game, though? I don't remember doing it/noticing the slide.

But either way being able to do this is pretty nice. Very applicable for marth, sonic, and megaman.

 

[sawp]

Just tested this out with Marth and Dr. Mario, it seems like what you're saying happens for an A-button pivot smash is because you're inputting a move command in the opposite direction of the dash before initiating the smash. You can actually do a similar thing using the C-stick.

Instead of hitting the A-button to do the smash, hit the C-stick at the same time you're inputting your opposite direction move command. I've been able to reliably get a full character's distance using this, with no noticeable turnaround time that isn't there for a quick C-stick pivot smash.

Let me know if you can replicate this at all.

 

[SigmaStrain]

From my testing, you can only input a Fsmash during the first couple of frames of a dash. Even on Marth, one of the kings of dash lengths. If you use the method we're used to on the 3ds on the Wii U - by using the A button + reverse control pad direction - you can perform pivot Ftilts and Fsmashes the same as we can on the 3ds. Good length and easy enough to execute, but it can be wonky to get the ftilt or fsmash specifically due to strict timing.

If you use the c-stick, the most distance you are going to get is maybe 1/2 your character at most. You barely get any movement, and I can't see it being worth for much other than for tiny adjustments like that. It lacks the range and controllability of normal pivot tilts/smashes with the A button.

C-stick pivots may still be useful (convince me), but using the A button is the only way to get full functionality pivot ftilts and pivot fsmashes, even if the timing window to specify which you'd like to do is strict.

I'm sorry but this is simply not true. Do a trot and towards the end turn around and flick the c-stick in the same direction. You will do a fsmash at a full trot distance away.

You can space amazingly with this technique. For marth users, for a bit of sexy style. Do a pivot. Key the opposite direction and flick that c stick for a perfectly spaced tipper

 

[Azazel]

Are you people still talking about how to Pivot tilt/smash reliably? It's incredibly easy.
First of all, I feel its more accurate to call them Turnaround F-tilt and Fsmash.

How it works: your Turnaround carries the momentum of your Dash and the Turnaround animation can be canceled with Jump, F-tilt, Fsmash

Input: (Dash) > (Turnaround animation) >

1. Hold > (F-tilt)
2. (Fsmash)

When I hear Pivot Smash I think of True Pivot at which you Frame one cancel a Dash with a tap in the opposite direction and your character does a simple standing Pivot at which you may execute any move.

Note: you can cancel Jump with Usmash, so you can techinically do a pivot Usmash. this was used to do Reverse JC Usmash

 

[Conda]

I'm sorry but this is simply not true. Do a trot and towards the end turn around and flick the c-stick in the same direction. You will do a fsmash at a full trot distance away.

You can space amazingly with this technique. For marth users, for a bit of sexy style. Do a pivot. Key the opposite direction and flick that c stick for a perfectly spaced tipper

It's true, you get extra range this way. We've been talking about this though in this thread as we've discovered it. I've linked this thread for viewers to learn future info about things we are learning

 

[Azazel]

You were canceling Dash with Fsmash, which is logically programmed like that since Fsmashing without a C-stick would be infinitely difficult if you keep dashing instead.

Also you can't cancel Dash with F-tilt. if you try you get a dash attack. What you were doing was canceling Turnaround which for some arbitrary reason carries your momentum, yet if you cancel anything else with F-tilt you lose your momentum.

 

[Conda]

This thread has been very helpful. C-stick differences this time around and many timing/input quirks make figuring out these sorts of things a very constructive community effort.