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Perfect Copy ~ Copy Abilities Guide (WIP)

Phan7om

ドリームランドの悪夢
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[v3.6]The official community guide of Kirby's signature move, copy. WIP. ~35% completed.
Better Video Examples w/ Timestamps: Each copy ability should have at least 3 examples of different scenarios in high or top level play (ie. they dont have to necessarily be high or top level players, but the play itself has to be able to work at high or top level if that makes sense) where the move would be useful in that matchup with timestamps making it easier to find. Ex. Dont post videos of Sheik using needles to gimp a spacie since that is different than gimping a Sheik; this goes with all characters. Any smash game, or fighting game, is fine as long as its relateable & could spark inspiration. They can also include guides but that will not take a spot in the 3 minimum examples of strictly high or top level match play. I will ultimately decide if the video example is good enough to count or not, you can try to persuade me. Ex. Dont post a video of you getting your little brother or someone with a fully charged Roy Flare Blade.

Detailed "How to Use" Sections: Each copy ability should cover hopefully all reliable options the move would have in that matchup with very detailed explanations of why its reliable and how to set the situation up. Most that seem completed are too generic, are not up to date with the meta, and/or possibly flat out incorrect. A Kirby player should be able to read any spoiler tab and learn how to master each move, even assuming they know very little about smash.

Up to Date ATs: As ATs have been buffed, nerfed, tweaked, or removed throughout the patches it needs to be clear what ATs Kirby can do with each of them. ATs include even those that would be obvious to most players such as double lasering with Falco's lasers, or even a type of strategy such as Needle Grab mixups with Sheik, or wavedash back Fireball with Mario; just anything that would not be obvious to a new player starting out. There should also be difficulty ratings.

Detailed "What not to do" Sections: Some are obvious, but a lot of them have options that are very bad or non-optimal that Kirby players should know to avoid using. They should cover why it could seem good, why its bad, and what you should do instead.

A lot of testing, double and triple checking was made to attempt to make this guide as accurate as possible and the best guide on smashboards. When this guide is 100% completed, a Kirby should be able to fully understand how to use the copy abilities in every matchup perfectly. Feel free to leave any suggestions or video of how any of them can be put to better use.

:bowser2:
Bowser
Overview

Damage: 1% per flame
Speed: Slow (without quickflame), Quick (with quickflame)
Range: Decent
Knockback: Low
Total frames: 1 (with quickflame) 76 frames if B is tapped, Infinite if held, 35 frames of endlag
Hit frames: 23-41, 29-47, 35-53, 41-59, 47-65, 53-71 ...
Shield stun: 2 frames per flame

How to Use
Stopping Approaches: It makes it pretty difficult for Bowser to get in on you if the flame is at max power. Bowser's main "approach options" are not the best, and it makes it even harder if there are constant hitboxes in front of you. Careful its not a full-proof option, the opponent can still SDI in and hit you at certain positions AND Bowser can crawl through it.

Mixups: With flame canceling (see below), it makes it very hard for Bowser to know what you are going to do once you attack him or his shield. It beats his up-b oos at a certain distance and really builds on the damage. Try it after a Bair, Uair, or a close to the ground Cutter Dash.

Getting Back Onstage: If you scare Bowser away from the ledge, but they still try to jump in and hit you, try ledge hop Fire Breath. Combined with Flame Canceling, this serves as a very powerful tool. If it hits your opponent they can only DI out and away or they'll be offstage, meaning you’ve reset the game back to neutral but get away from the ledge!

Covering Ledge Options > 100%: Under 100% Bowser can get up attack and beat any distance where Fire Breath would normally hit. Over 100% it really puts Bowser into an awkward situation if you space the range perfectly; which is about a little over the middle of Battlefield's left or right platform.

ATs
Flame Canceling - Difficulty: ★★
Description: Kirby will cancel the startup of Fire Breath so the flames come out as early as frame 1.
How to Preform: This is done by pressing B right as you're about to hit the ground (think l cancelling but not with an aerial, and with B). This can be done with any type of jump of course, and it can also be done out of a short hop Bair or Uair; and can be uesd out of a Cutter Dash after a SH Bair or Uair.
Note:

What Not to Do
Be predictable: Its best to never be predictable, but especially not with this move. If Bowser knows you will use this, he can easily avoid or start crawling to absorb the stun. 35 frames of endlag is enough time for Bowser to F-smash you.

Use when Bowser is in the air: You are going to get punished by a good Bowser if you do this. The angle will not cover anything high up and there is tons of endlag on the move. On top of that Kirby is light and will die quickly, you want to avoid damage at all costs in this matchup.

Use when Bowser is crawling: Same as above, Bowser can armor the fire and destroy you for using it.

Synopsis
Elite bowser players agree it is not that useful in the ditto.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
:falcon:
Captain Falcon
Overview

Damage: 27% Normal, 28% Reversed
Speed: Very Slow
Range: Low
Knockback: Great, Kills around 55%
Total frames: 100 frames
Hit frames: 54-58
Shield stun: 14 frames

How to Use

Edgeguarding: Falcon's recovery is very predictable and limited. He falls very fast, and if he is too far offstage he can only use recovery moves to get back onstage or he dies. Take advantage of this and throw out the Punch, what can he do to you? Since you are Kirby you have little risk to go out there and try to punch him. If Falcon is recovering back to the stage ledge drop, jump onto the stage, and Falcon Punch his landing lag. The only way for Falcon to dodge this would be to sweetspot or pull back to the ledge. Hit em with the Zhuv (see below).

Reads: Falcons recovery only has so many options, read which one the Falcon will most likely go for and Punch in that location. Also in a tech chase situation, because Falcon's tech roll is bad, you might be able to get a Falcon Punch if he techs towards you. Also if you know he will roll, do a reverse punch to catch his roll (see Batman). Of course, this is bad... but what else is going to work?

ATs
Building the Hype - Difficulty: ★ x 69
Description:
How to Preform:
Just hit with it when a lot of people are watching, you'll become the fan favorite instantly haha. Kappa
Note:

What Not to Do
Combo Finish: The Punch is too slow for you to finish off any combo with it. Dont risk it because if you miss he can combo the hell out of you.

Use in Neutral: This should be self explanatory. Any more that has 15+ frames of vulnerability should not be used willy-nilly in neutral. The risk is too high and you will get punished!

Synopsis
PAWNCH! We all know what this is good for. Getting this ability gives us permission to disrespect our opponent. Its very slow so we arent comboing into it anytime soon. Just trap your opponents options and make them think on their feet, especially during their recovery, and they will get hit. Kirby's Falcon Punch is better than Falcons just because hes not Falcon. Kirby can go deep offstage with it with little risk. Personally, I think this is the most underrated bad move.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
Batman:
Zhuv:
Top 20 Falcon Punches: Look at how the players use it. Look at when the players use it. Look at everything.
Mango's Kirby vs Dunk:
Kage ends the stream:
:charizard:
Charizard
Overview

Damage: 1% per flame
Speed: Slow
Range: Decent
Knockback: Low
Total frames: 67 frames if tapped, Infinite if held, 35 frames of endlag?
Hit frames: 19-36, 25-42, 31-48, 37-54, 43-60 ...
Shield stun: 2 frames per flame

How to Use
Getting Back Onstage: Similar to Bowser, if you ledge-hop flamethrower they can only DI away and you've gained the space to reset back to neutral, but isnt as an effective option as Bowsers because of lack of Flame Cancelling.

Stopping Approaches: At full strength, it is very hard for charizard to get in on you, he has to take to the air. It will beat out his glide and a lot of other options he has. Be careful tho, if he sees this coming you're getting punished.

ATs
None

What Not to Do
Use at min power: The decay is much worse than Bowser's. At minimum power, the range is nearly non-existent and Charizard will have to trouble getting around you and punishing it.

Be Predictable: If the opponent sees this coming, it will be easy for him or her to avoid and punish the lag. Charizard has a lot of kill moves, many of which become more viable if you are in 31 frames of lag.

Synopsis
In a vacuum it is very similar but a worse version of Bowser's. The decay is very bad, and Charizard has an easier time getting around Flamethrower.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
:dedede:
Dedede
Overview

Damage: 10% on spit out
Speed: Slow
Range: Decent
Knockback: None
Total frames: 77 frames, 19 frames of endlag
Hit frames: Active frames 17~, Windbox out frame 20~
Shield stun: None

How to Use
Need for More Range: Since D3's Inhale is easily a longer but slower version of Kirby's it would be best to catch them where Kirby's Inhale would not. Great examples include when D3 is at the ledge getting back on, or if D3 is in shield as you are threatening with an aerial. This could serve its purpose since D3 has a lot of ranged options causing Kirby's Inhale to fail.

Happy Ending Bait: The AT Happy Ending will only work if D3 mashes, some D3s will know this and not mash so it will force a starshot. Use this to your advantage, if you are a stock ahead just start walking towards the edge they'll start mashing then. If they mash out when you are offstage, you can jump out immediately so you wont lose a stock.

ATs
Happy Ending - Difficulty: ★★★★
Description: Unlike Kirby's when an opponent releases from D3's inhale, they will pop upwards instead of downwards. It also has no lag afterwards meaning you can instantly move after they pop up.
How to Perform: The happy ending is simply buffering an action during the turn around frames to punish them right as they pop up, and in Kirby's case it would be a full hop UAir which kills around 125%. To be clear, yes there is no 10 frames of buffer, but during the turnaround frames you can do any input and nothing will happen meaning you can mash jump.
Note: This technique is the reason for the higher placement of this move, learn it. Be careful tho, it's not guaranteed.

What Not to Do
Try to stop his approaches: D3's Waddle Dees beat out Inhale, so if he sees you trying to catch him with an Inhale all he has to do is throw one... which could be a Gordo. The move's startup is too slow to catch them with any kind of defensive mixup. Plus, as he is in the windbox of Inhale he is free to do anything such as a charged smash or Jet Hammer which will beat out Inhale.

Synopsis

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
Korean's Happy Ending visual example done with Brawl D3:
:diddy:
Diddy
Overview

Damage: 5% uncharged, 18% charged
Speed: Average
Range: Good
Knockback: Low
Total frames: 38 frames
Hit frames: 14~ (if B is tapped) (until object hit)
Shield stun: 4 frames uncharged, 10 frames charged

How to Use
Edgeguarding: As good as Deep Kong is, he still has a lot of trouble dealing with peanuts when recovering. It forces him to choose a different location to recover safely, so you can manipulate him to choose an optoin that isnt as good as he wanted... and with the landing lag increase, you can punish him hard. And if he gets hit with it, the situation resets. His recovery is nerfed in 3.5 so this option has a lot more viability.

Baiting: See Popgun Cancel below. Using this AT, you can possibly bait Diddy into trying to punish your "mistake", him not knowing you know how to do this so you get a free punish instead. Try it when you think hes going to approach or throw a banana at you. Make sure you are safe when you do this tho, dont try to grab when you know hes out of range, etc. After a while Diddy will start to catch on so it becomes a little less effective, so keep mixing it up, you can even throw in a couple of normal shots in there as well.

Mobility: With B-reverse tricks, you can mix up your momentum making it harder for diddy to know where you will be, and while being in midair you can still popgun cancel although it is pretty laggy. Use it if you are above him, being juggled, or recovering to avoid a potential gimp.

ATs
Popgun Cancel - Difficulty: ★★★
Description: When Kirby is charging his popgun, a shield button will cancel the animation half way through so you can act immediately.
How to Perform: On the ground this move can be shield cancelled if and only if you hard press your shield similar to if you had to powershield. It gets tricky because you have to press through soft press shield to activate it, so you would need very fast fingers to do this... or you can set your shield button to hard press by holding it in before it clicks when you reset your controller/plug in your controller.
Note: It makes it shield cancellable giving you all of your oos options when you charge the popgun. Oos options being Grab, Up-Smash, Jump, Wavedash, Roll, Spotdodge, Item Throw, Shield Drop or Up-B. Careful tho, you can only cancel it half way through the charge. Same thing happens in the air, but instead Kirby will do a laggy animation when cancelling the popgun.


0 Landing Lag Shield Cancel - Difficulty: ★★★★★
Description: Upon landing, Kirby can shield cancel the charge of the move the first frame he touches the ground.
How to Perform: Every character will go through 4-6 (Kirby is 4) frames of landing lag after a jump or a move that autocancels. Because Diddy's Popgun can be cancelled with shield, the frame you hit the ground you can shield AND do any option you can normally do out of shield such as roll, jump, grab, etc. Very difficult to time perfectly, and its uses are limited but its another way to decrease lag.
Note: I could see this becoming a known big thing in the future, but as of right now most people would see this as useless tech skill.

What Not to Do
Try to recover with it:

Spam Mindlessly:

Charge it all the way:

Synopsis
As of right now, Kirby gets Diddy's Brawl peanuts. Meaning they dont have the same arc or power as the original. It also stops Kirby's forward momentum as you shoot. That doesnt mean its useless, Kirby still gets a semi-useful projectile. Peanut Popgun doesn’t do much but it’s decent for edgeguarding, baiting, and mobility. This move is great at manipulating the path of a Diddy trying to return to the stage putting them in a better position for you to hit them back out. This can also annoy people planking or trying to sweetspot the ledge. It helps with baiting opponents to punish their approach as it can serve as both a projectile and can be hard press shield cancelled giving you all your oos options.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
:dk2:
Donkey Kong
Overview

Damage: 30% Fully Charged
Speed: Slow
Range: Low
Knockback: Great, Kills around 75%, or 100% (for inside hitbox)
Total frames: 45 frames, Invincibility on 17-20
Hit frames: frame 18 above Kirby, frame 19-22 in front of Kirby
Shield stun: 15 frames

How to Use
Edgeguarding: He has a very predictable recovery. The giant punch completely beats out his Up-B. Force him to have to use it and punish him hard for it. Offstage it straight kills around 55% (depending on stage of course). Condition him to recover high onstage and punish him. Beware tho, his up-b has pretty low lag. If you hold edge and he's about to land right in front of you, ledge hop reverse punch him before he can get to the stage, and use the vertical inside hitbox if needed.

Combo Finisher: Because of Kirby's great underrated combo game, you can hit the punch a lot. At around kill % you can up-throw punch DK if he doesn't DI correctly. F-throw also can combo into punch if he DI's up and towards you. On top of that there are lots of other ways to hit them such as SH Up-air > Punch, Up-Tilt > Punch, Rev. Utilt > Punch, Falling Up-Air > Punch, Late N-air > Punch, etc. Its a lot easier to combo him at low %s so some of these will not work at kill %. Note the kill % above, you will be able to kill him earlier on smaller stages.

Reads/Tech Punish: Read his rolls, read his jumps, bait an up-b oos, read and punish approach options,condition him to get hit by it, punish his tech's during a tech chase. Make him tech on a platform and cover two opions. With Dthrow this becomes a pretty reliable option which you can get a lot of kills for. You can also be a TAS and "parry" his moves.

Mental Pressure: The psychological pressure the punch puts on DK allows you to trick them since they will play a lot more defensive now that you have it because they know you try to use it at all costs. They assume Kirby players dont know how to use this, punish them for their thinking and mindgame the hell out of them. Also charging the punch, especially after landing a successful punch, from a slight distance makes them want to play more aggro so you cannot finish.

ATs
Wind-up Turn Around - Difficulty: ★★
Description: Kirby will initiate the charging of the Giant Punch in the opposite direction and can be cancelled with one of the shield buttons.
How to Perform: Done by inputting the opposite direction Kirby is facing within 25 frames of pressing B, and then cancelling the charge by pressing one of the shield triggers (L or R).
Note: If you know Sheik's needle turnaround, it's the same concept just with a different move. Mainly used for quick aerial turnarounds to grab ledge or to Bair/Fair/Rev. Uair instead of the opposite.

What Not to Do
Freak out when charging: When you are charging this move, its best to keep cool and play on. Dont panic because you are in an animation and start spamming roll, because most players when they panic will expose some kind of habit without knowing it, in this case rolling. It will work maybe the 1st time, but the 2nd time the DK will look for it and read you.

Approach with it: This means using your running jump momentum and punching while airborne. The hitbox is out for too little to be exposed for 23 frames. The risk is too high, DK will punish you hard. Plus it wont work. If you use the Giant Punch, you want to make sure you hit with it. Its better to lose a stock and not use it, that it is to lose a stock because you used it.

Use any wind 1-8: "But doesnt he have 10 winds? Why is it okay to use wind 9?" I hear you ask. With a 9 wind, the punch has similar knockback to a fully charged punch but is hidden from the opponent. True its not the Brawl 9 wind punch, but it still serves its purpose. Ive even experimented with earlier winds, and it does set up for tech chases, but thats it. Im sure you can use like 3-5 for a stylish edgeguard. With a wind of 1-8 it is just inferior, why would you use an 8 wind punch when you could use a 9 or 10 wind punch? Ill delete this if me or someone finds a great use.

Synopsis
One of DK's main killers, and gives Kirby a new potent kill option. A killing move with, now, invincibility is always good to have. When Kirby gets this ability, he will start swinging his arms up to 10 times when you press B, which you can stop at any time with a shield button. You know you're done when you start steaming.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
:falco:
Falco
Overview

Damage: 3%
Speed: Quick
Range: Amazing
Knockback: Low
Total frames: 56 frames (grounded), 41 frames (airborne), Land Cancel is 4 frames, 12 frames of hitstun
Hit frames: 10~ (airborne), 12~(grounded) (until object hit)
Shield stun: 3 frames

How to Use
Covering Options: Credit to Player -0. After you F-Throw, laser as you are landing. This covers missed tech, which leads to a laser reset and an easy punish from there. If they tech, cover tech in place and tech in on reaction. If they tech away then apply pressure with double laser. From there you can F-Tilt/Up-Tilt/Hammer (if they're by ledge and you can push them off with it)/Bair.

Approaching: If you want to close the distance against Falco without having to worry about getting lasered on your way. Using the ATs below, mix him up with double, single, and silent lasers so that he wont know what to do. On landing, Kirby has 16 frames where it is very hard for Falco to laser him since he ducks.

Mental Pressure: The lasers have low land lag and allow you to mix up your opponent. Bait out shields and pressure them to stay in shield and punish with grabs. Read rolls if you have to. Use Laser > Ftilt to get them offstage.

Edgeguarding: Snipe out that second jump of his and force him to either side-b or up-b. Side-b can be punished since the time he has to use it is pretty telegraphed, and if he Up-Bs he's dead (he should be). Since going off stage has little risk for Kirby, you can actually chase Falco out there, laser him, and NAir his Up-B. Also, you can use this to cover any recovery option above the stage (including jump) forcing him to recover low, thus Up-Bing thus being dead. Example against armada shown below.

ATs
Land Cancel & Short Hop Double Laser (SHDL) (And Fastfall) - Difficulty: ★★
Description: When airborne, lasers will cancel immediately when touching the ground.
How to Perform: Short hop by lightly tapping the jump command (with whatever method you desire) and press B twice. While you are pressing B, slam down on your control stick at the highest part of your jump.
Note: Because of Kirby's slower fall speed, Kirby can shoot two lasers before he touches the ground where as Falco can only shoot one. You can fast fall during this time to speed up the process, you cannot shoot three not even from the ledge so don't try. From this, you have a variety of mix-ups depending on the situation.

Silent Laser - Difficulty: ★★★★
Description: Kirby will shoot a laser without sound.
How to Perform: Right before Kirby touches the ground, press B and the laser will come out without the "pew" sound.
Note: This is a really good way to fake out opponents if they use the sound to play around lasers. Can be used at any time, especially during the SHDL.

Laser Reset - Difficulty: ★★★
Description: Lasers can force a reset exactly like a jab reset.
How to Perform: If Falco misses a tech, you can shoot him to force him to do a neutral get up which can lead to maximum punishment. To hit him on the ground requires you to do the lowest laser possible, which is pretty difficult without practice. To shoot a laser that low you must fastfall and shoot a silent laser.
Note: This is a good way to reset at a distance.

Isai Drop Laser - Difficulty: ★★★★
Description: Kirby will land on a platform with a laser, then immediately drop through with any move of your choice.
How to Perform: Done by walking immediately after you land and holding down immediately after you walk.
Note: This makes it much more of a viable trick on stages with low platforms (FoD) since they no longer become an issue.

What Not to Do
Stand ant Shoot (use grounded): Easily safer than standing and shooting Fox's lasers, but still comes at a price. You should try your best at all times to cut any lag you can possibly have. Since Falco's lasers autocancel when you hit the ground, it is optimal to always do that.

Spam Mindlessly: I know, lasers are good and can pin Falco down, but they can be bad in some cases. I see lots of Falco's autopilot and use lasers in cases where it would be better to grab, shine to start a combo, or to put on pressure with dash dancing or empty hops. And if you asked them why they lasered there they would say something like "Idk, lasers are good and are Falco's main way of approaching" or something like that. Ex. If Falco is above you and out of laser range, dont shoot any lasers or you will take a Dair > Shine to the face. Dont be that guy, know when its best to laser and why you should laser there and not perform another option.

Synopsis

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
Falco Laser Tricks:
Falco Neutral Game Tutorial (Lasers):
Axe vs Westballz Falco Dittos Melee:
Axe vs Westballz Falco Dittos PM:
PPMD vs Mango Falco Dittos Apex '14 WSF:
PPMD edgeguard against Armada Evo '15: Done against Fox but the same idea applies against Falco. See how he covers Armada's double jump with one laser, covers his side-b with the 2nd laser, and forces Armada to Up-B below the stage leading to an easy Dair. Do the same thing with Kirby.
:fox:
Fox
Overview

Damage: 3%
Speed: Quick
Range: Great
Knockback: None
Total frames: 34 frames (airborne), 38 frames (grounded). Land cancel is 4 frames.
Hit frames: 9-28 (airborne), 11-30 (grounded). Shots fire every 10 frames.
Shield stun: 3 frames

How to Use
Forcing Approaches: Fox wont like getting shot for 3% damage for every laser and will close the gap between you at all costs. If the Fox you are fighting is a bit campy or is dash dance camping this is a great way to call him out and force him to approach. If the Fox is very aggro, you cant force something that already exists and will only get you punished if you use them unsafely.

Building Damage/Unstaling: Sort of going on from the above, Fox will take 3% for every laser he gets hit with meaning after 30 lasers hes at 90% which is enough to knock him too far offstage to get back on safely without a challenge. When you knock Fox far enough away, get as much excess damage as you can as Fox will be too far away for you to follow up, but dont do it if hes too close you'll get punished. Also, with help from Leffen (it was widely known before but he made a video on it), you can use the lasers to unstale your moveset so you do more damage.

ATs
Land Cancel & Short Hop Quadruple Laser - Difficulty: ★★★
Description: When airborne, Kirby will cancel the laser shooting animation once he touches the ground.
How to Perform: Short hop by lightly tapping the jump command (whatever method you desire) and rapidly press B 4 times.
Note: Out of a short hop, because of Kirby's floatiness, can shoot 4 lasers before he can touch the ground again. This can make for some big damage as the opponent will take 3% per laser.

Silent Laser - Difficulty: ★★★
Description: Kirby will shoot a laser without sound.
How to Perform: As you get close to the ground, press B immediately before touching the ground. A laser shot close to the ground will not produce the "pew" sound effect.
Note: Although its not that important with Fox's lasers, it can mess up the opponents defensive maneuvers if he or she relies on the sound que.

What Not to Do
Approach with it: Pretty self explanatory. Lasers dont have hitstun, you will be at the disadvantage if you are stuck in a move's animation that will not interact with the opponents movement options. Just dont do it.

Edgeguard With It: No, just no! If Fox is offstage, now is not the time to be trying to build some damage on him. You have options to edgeugard him which is what you should be doing. Getting that K.O. now is way better than building damage and getting the K.O. later.

Stand and Shoot (Use Grounded): Similar to approaching with it, you are at a disadvantage if you are stuck in an animation that does not interact with the opponents movement options. Why not cut that time down by land cancelling it at all times. Standing and shooting gives Fox enough time to run up and Up Smash from like 3/4 of an FD away.

Synopsis
Maintaining stage control with Lasers is very good in this matchup, but Fox's speed can make shooting lasers very risky.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
Jman vs Weon-X Fox Dittos RoM 7:
Nakat's Fox vs Zero's MK Brawl: I know its Brawl and you probably dont want to watch it, but the way Nakat uses Fox's lasers is very similar to the best way to use Kirby's lasers against Fox in PM. Do keep in mind that this is Brawl and PM/Melee Foxes will tend to be a bit more aggro than Zero's MK, Kirby is slow, and Fox has lasers as well.
:ganondorf:
Ganondorf
Overview

Damage: 32%, 35% Reversed
Speed: Very Slow
Range: Low
Knockback: Great, Kills around 35%
Total frames: 119 Frames
Hit frames: 71-73
Shield stun: 16 Frames

How to Use
Edgeguarding/Reads: When is the only time Ganon is vulnerable long enough for a 71 frame move to it. Ding! Ding! Ding! Offstage! Kirby has little trouble going offstage safely, and there is nothing Ganon can do in the air to "dodge", he can only throw out a move... which is trouble for you. Aim to attack him when he is in the lag of another move. Two moves come to mind; Wizards Foot (Down-B), and Dark Dive (Up-B). If you can read where he will be if he has to use WF to recover, thats a free kill no matter the %. Similarly, if you can read where his Up-B will end up you can catch him there for a free kill.

ATs

What Not to Do
Use in Neutral: Why? It seems pretty self explanatory to me. It doesn't have armor, even though it still would be a bad move if it did and I could see someone explaining how you can armor one of Ganon's moves for a powerful punish, but this is irrelevant because it doesnt have armor. It has very little range and if misused Ganon can get you with a strong move while you are in your animation.

Synopsis
Very similar to Falcon Punch... but worse. For one, this move is a lot slower meaning it is that much harder to react to and avoid. And two, this move doesnt bring nearly as much hype, it just makes both players look stupid... unless you do it in a cool & smart way, then it looks amazing.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
Top 10 Warlock Punches:
:popo:
Ice Climbers
Overview

Damage: 3% up close, 2% mid range, 1% far away
Speed: Slow
Range: Good
Knockback: Low
Total frames: 59 frames, Land Cancel is 16 frames
Hit frames: Hammer hitbox on frames 15-20, Ice hitbox on frames 17~ (until object hit, melting ice still crosses most stages)
Shield stun: 2-3 frames

How to Use
Edgeguarding: The ICs need both Popo and Nana synched to get any vertical distance on their recovery. If the ICs have the courage to recover low, the Ice Shot will desynch them because only one of them will be in hitstun. If Nana is hit during the Up-B before Popo is launched they will be too far apart for Popo to recover vertically, if Popo is hit during the Up-B he is dead.

Stopping Approaches: ICs have a tendency to use their long wavedash to close the distance between the two players. As long as an Ice Shot is out on the field they have to throw out a move to beat it or they will be stopped in their tracks. This makes them wary of when they should Wavedash in.

ATs

What Not to Do
Use up close on shield: When a move has more lag than it does shield stun, it is always best to not use the move unsafe on shield, Ice Shot is one of those moves. Plus the ICs can tack on lots of damage with their grab combos, you'd want to avoid this at all costs.

Synopsis

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
:ike:
Ike
Overview

Damage: 10% uncharged, Add 4% every whoosh. 50% fully charged
Speed: Slow
Range: Average (vertically)
Knockback: Average-Amazing (no charge-fully charged) Kills around 80% with 3 whooshes, Kills at 0% fully charged
Total frames: 79 frames, Armor frames 24-29 (If B is tapped). Armor frames 5-10 (If charged and B is released)
Hit frames: 30-37, 11-18 (if charged)
Shield stun: 6-24 Frames (no charge-fully charged)

How to Use
Edgeguarding: If Ike is forced to use his Side-B to recover anywhere near the edge, start charging. A 3 whoosh charge will kill Ike around 80%, possibly earlier or later depending on the stage. Ike can do nothing to counter this, the move goes low enough to cover the edge and the super armor can beat the Side-B attack. Also, since Eruption can meteor, if you're good you can meteor his Side-B attempt. Most likely he's already used his jump, so to meteor cancel he would be way too far to recover on stage.

Aerial Finisher: If you get Ike above you in a combo and is trying to come back down or jump out, Eruption will take care of it. The closer he is to the ceiling blast zone the better. Examples of moves that can set this up are Utilt, Usmash, Uthrow, and Uair.

ATs

What Not to Do
Try to beat Aether: Ike's Aether is a multi-hit long range move. You will be hit before the eruption can activate. The armor frames will not save you. The only use for this would be to try to beat the top of his Aether when he is spinning and about to come down, but you have better and safer options for that anyway.

Use in Neutral: There is no reason you would ever need to do this. Dont try to anti air with this. With any move where you are vulnerable for more than 15 frames, it is best to try to avoid using it in neutral. You will get punished... hard! The reward is too low for a risk that big.

Synopsis
The blue flames now become Kirby's, but this move doesnt always live up to the hype. There is almost always a better option than to use eruption since of its below average knockback and low damage output uncharged, but in fact this move has a giant vertical hitbox which can catch Ike when he is above you on a platform. This move has a meteor hitbox at the very bottom of the moves hitboxes, which could catch your opponent off guard and kill your opponent off the bottom. This move also has super armor that can help with edgeguarding.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
:ivysaur:
Ivysaur
Overview

Damage: 25%
Speed: Slow
Range: Amazing
Knockback: Great
Total frames: 81 frames
Hit frames: 23-34
Shield stun: 13 frames

How to Use
Combo Finisher: Need a way to maximize your punishes, or increase your KO potential? Look no further! Solarbeam can be comboed into Ivy better than Ivy can combo into you or any other character, except for maybe a few. Look for ways to do it because there are dozens of ways to hit with it. Uair, Falling Uair Utilt, Uthrow, and Fthrow are all great ways to combo into Solarbeam. Ivy can DI a lot of combos you find. Stay alert and recognize when it can and is going to hit.

Psychological Pressure: Since Solarbeam covers a very large area diagonally up-forwards, Ivy will do anything not to get into that area, especially during things like recovery. Ivy will want to recover low most likely meaning she has to use her tether to recover which you can just grab ledge > jump hammer her landing. Use this to put psychological pressure on the ivy and make her play your game.

Tech Chasing on Platforms: If you ever get Ivy to tech onto a platform, whether it be by Fthrow, Nair, Bair, Utilt, you name it, read her roll and press B. Because of the diagonal, at certain points, and depending on the platform size, you can cover a lot of her options. This requires quick reactions or a hard read since Solarbeam comes out so slow. You have roughly 20 frames to punish a tech roll yet the startup is 23 frames.

ATs

What Not to Do
Get too Excited: Im sure a lot of players will think "oh my gawd, I got a long range kill move, must find a way to use this quickly." If you start thinking anything like that, calm down and assess the situations you put them in because it has a lower chance of hitting if you desperately want to hit them... very similar to Puff and Rest.

Use right when you get it: You dont need to charge this move, nor will it hit right out of copy unless the opponent really screws something up... and after that you have to get rid of it, dont take the risk. If you use this move it should always hit, it has 100% accruacy for goodness sake xD.

Use Offstage: This move puts you into freefall, if you use offstage you will die. So keep the beams onstage please.

Synopsis
The devistating Solarbeam. Sunny Day must be active, or we must have a power herb because we dont need to charge. I like to call this move a mini Final Smash, after we use it once we cannot use it again unless we copy ivysaur again... and plus we can edgecancel our taunts to get rid of the power faster. A super long ranged KO move that can serve as a combo finisher, psychological pressure, and helps tech chases sounds good to me! It is on the verge of broken, use it while you still can!

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
:jigglypuff:
Jigglypuff
Overview

Damage: 12-18% (no charge-fully charged, 1% for every whoosh)
Speed: Low
Range: Good
Knockback: Great, Kills around 70% (fully charged)
Total frames: Turn around animation is 29 frames, 31 frames of Endlag, Crosses PS2 in 42 frames
Hit frames: Hit on frame 36 (for min power), Hit on frame 59~ (fully charged), Releases on frame 2 (after charging and B is let go)
Shield stun: 7-10 frames (no charge-fully charged)

How to Use
Mental Pressure: Puffs love to take the air, so that means they have to land eventually, so you might be able to catch her. She will only have ledges or platforms to take to, so this would best be used on a large stage with little to no platforms (FD, SV, GhZ, FoD). I make this sound way better than it is, dont do this much it is very avoidable and punishable.

Recovery: If you need to go deep offstage for a kill and you think the cutter dash alone will not help, charge Rollout for a little and gain that extra boost of range. It will sweetspot the ledge with proper placement. You can also use this when coming back onstage after Puff has knocked you off but take extreme caution, one screw up and thats your stock.

Tech Chasing: Probably the safest offensive use for this move. With Puff's below average tech roll if you get a tech chase on her you may be able to hit her with it. This could happen after a D-throw, or after anything that forces her into tumble such as Nair, Bair, Reverse Uair, Bthrow, Ftilt, or Dtilt at high %s.

ATs
Rollout Ledge Sweetspot - Difficulty: ★★★
Description: A perfectly time rollout towards the ledge will "cancel" into ledge grab.
How to Perform: Position yourself so that when you charge and release it, you will grab the ledge. This takes a bit of experience to master.
Note:

What Not to Do
Approach with this: It might seem like a good idea for a mixup at first, but take it from me it is not! The Puff player will react to it, follow where you end up, and Rest you. If you are going to use such a punishable move, make sure it will be safe.

Not turn around/Use Offstage: If you dont turn around you will go offstage, and if the move is finished offstage you will end up in special fall and thats your stock. If you use this move, turn around before you go offstage please. If you are wanting to finish Puff off with this move offstage, make sure it will hit or you have at least 3 stocks to spare.

Synopsis
A very high risk high reward move. Not only does this move send you into free-fall if it finishes offstage, if you miss with it onstage that could be your stock due to rest. But when this hits its devastating, killing Puff as low as 70% at not even full power.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
:link2:
Link
Overview

Damage: 5-15% (no charge-fully charged)
Speed: Low (without Quickdraw), Quick (with Quickdraw)
Range: Low-Great (no charge-fully charged)
Knockback: Low
Total frames: 24 frames of endlag (starting when hitbox begins)
Hit frames: 18-32 (no charge), 61-82 (fully charged). Fastest Quickdraw comes out frame 1 (automatic no charge)
Shield stun: 4-8 frames (no charge-fully charged)

How to Use
Edgeguarding: Be a pro and snipe out Link's bombs when he tries to bombjump. If you dont think you can get his bombs, shoot his up-b attempt it really messes with their recovery. If he is close enough to not need to bomb jump, aim to get his 2nd jump or his Up-B if you are too far away. The angle it sends him is like a semi-semi-spike (no typo).

ATs
Quickdraw - Difficulty: ★★
Description: Kirby will shoot an arrow with little startup lag, exactly like Flame Cancel. Can come out as quick as frame 1.
How to Perform: Done by simply hitting B right before you land, and you will shoot an arrow with little start up lag. Like Bowser's Flame Cancel it can be used out of a shorthopped bair, uair, cutter dash if at the right height, and even item toss.
Note: If you are landing and the opponent is in front of/behind you it quickly covers space.

Battle Christ Arrow Trick (BCAT) & The Jerk - Difficulty: ★★★★ (BCAT) ★★★★★ (Jerk)
Description: Kirby will shoot an arrow in the opposite direction the arrow should have come out.
How to Perform: A version of the quickdraw where you B-reverse the quickdraw. This can also be wavebounced, called the Jerk.
Note: More so flashy than useful, but a good technique to master to get your opponent and spectators to see that you know what you are doing with Link's arrows instead of them automatically thinking you're some scrub who doesn't know how to use them properly.

Arrow Reset - Difficulty: ★★
Description: The arrow acts as a move weak enough to reset a miss tech'd opponent, exactly like Jab Reset.
How to Perform: When it is possible for Link to miss a tech, press or hold B to aim at where Link is and you can reset him with a move Kirby could not normally reach. In some situations, such as after a F-tilt Dthrow or an aerial, where Link is forced to either tech or not tech arrow can cover the no tech option and force him to do a neutral get up which can lead to big punishment.
Note: Its good to know tech traps, where you trick your opponent to tech earlier than they need to forcing them to miss the next tech. Also, you cannot punish a reset that is too far.

What Not to Do
Use up close: With 24 frames of endlag and a maximum of 8 frames of shield stun, Link has 16 frames to do what he wants, so never use this up close while Link is shielding to put on any kind of "pressure". Similarly, the move doesnt have enough hitstun for you to start a combo or anything like that. If you are going to use them onstage, make sure you are at least a boomerang's length away.

Camp with it: Seems flawless right, why not camp with the arrows while Link is trying to keep us away with projectiles. Quick answer, it wont work. Link has way better zoning options and can even close the gap as Kirby would try to camp with them. Stay away from using arrows completely defensively, try to be a little aggressive with them and punish his openings but dont go completely on the offensive/rush down or you will get punished!

Synopsis
Link's Hero's Bow gives Kirby a projectile but because of Link's Hyrulian shield, startup time, and low range uncharged this move doesnt have much onstage viability, but can really mess with Link offstage. The priority and damage of the arrow increases as the charge increases. It is bad to use this move too close or too far from Link.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
:lucario:
Lucario
Overview

Damage: 8-19% (no charge-fully charged), AS charge ticks do a fraction of a %
Speed: Average
Range: Great
Knockback: Good, Kills around 140% center stage
Total frames: Fully charged on frame 120, 29 frames of Endlag (starts on same frame hitbox starts), Shield can come out frame 13
Hit frames: Hitbox on Aura Sphere charge on frame 15-16, 19-21 ... Smallest AS on frame 20-79 (hitting B twice), Fully charged stored AS hits on frame 19-99, Shoots in 7 frames when charging.
Shield stun: 5-10 frames (no charge-fully charged), 1 frame for AS charge ticks

How to Use
Stopping Approaches:

Edgeguarding:

Option Coverage:

Combo Finisher:

Kill Setups:

Mental Pressure:

ATs
0 Landing Lag Shield Cancel - Difficulty: ★★★★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

AS Reset - Difficulty: ★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

What Not to Do

Synopsis
The lack of the ability to cancel this move while charging, without rolling, makes it slightly worse than it could be potentially.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
aMSa vs iPunchkidz Lucario Dittos $100 MM:
:lucas:
Lucas
Overview

Damage: 5%
Speed: Average
Range: Good
Knockback: Low,
Total frames: 38 frames, 22 frames of Endlag, ~32 frames of hitstun
Hit frames: 14-46
Shield stun: 4 frames

How to Use
Stopping Approaches: If Lucas wants to DJC PKF, Kirby's PKF will outrange it. Makes it really hard for Lucas to use that as an approach option. It also stops the fluidity of Lucas' great ground movement since most Lucas players will use it to outpace you.

Kill Setups: PKF has lots of hitstun (+10 on hit point blank range not CCed). On average the shot wouldve traveled ~13 frames before hitting turning that +10 into ~+23; then you have to take into account your distance from him. Depending where you are you can jump in and hammer, Uair, Dash Attack > Uair, Final Cutter > Uair, another PKF at closer range, etc (all of course with unoptimal DI). Experiment, at high %s you should get a kill off of a successful landed one.

ATs
SH PKF Waveland - Difficulty: ★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:
Timed correctly, out of a shorthop you can waveland out of it increasing your mobility.

What Not to Do

Synopsis

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
Pink Fresh vs Hyperflame 3.5 Lucas Ditto: The whole match is great, but look at this specific example where I timestamped. This way is similar to how Kirby will stop Lucas' approaches, bait out a PK Freeze and position a PK freeze of your own. I know we cant double jump cancel like this example, but ours out ranges his.
:luigi2:
Luigi
Overview

Damage: 7%
Speed: Average
Range: Good
Knockback: Low
Total frames: 41 frames, 23 frames of Endlag, 17 frames of hitstun
Hit frames: 17-74
Shield stun: 5 frames

How to Use
Stopping Approaches: Luigi has good and fast ground movement in the form of a long wavedash and are likely to approach with it, Fireball will stop it. Once it is likely Luigi wants to wavedash in, shoot a fireball. Luigi is likely to wavedash in when they are in shield, when they are 1/3 of a stage away, from the ledge, after a short hop aerial, as you are landing, or after you are in lag which you can sometimes bait out a wavedash.

Edgeguarding: Fireballs will beat Luigi's Side-B and Down-B. Luigi cannot recover without Side-B and Down-B, well he can... but its pretty bad. Side-B covers horizontal distance while Down-B covers vertical distance. Kirby can go offstage and cover each of his options, read which one the Luigi is likely to use and punish it.

ATs

What Not to Do

Synopsis
You can use fireball much better than he can against you. His projectile will force Luigi to approach more often than usual, and controls a lot of space in front of you and will stuff his wavedash apporaches and pressure Luigi to jump at certain times or throw out moves to beat the projectile.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
Abate vs StricNYN3 Melee Rom 7: This is Luigi vs Falco, but the idea of how to use fireballs can still be seen in how Stric uses lasers against Luigi. See how it really messes with him offstage, and limits Luigi in neutral.
:mario2:
Mario
Overview

Damage: 8%
Speed: Average
Range: Great
Knockback: Low
Total frames: 41 frames, 14 frames of hitstun
Hit frames: 14-86
Shield stun: 5 frames

How to Use
Covering Your Approaches:

Stopping Approaches:

Edgeguarding:

Recovery:

ATs
Full Hop Double Jump (FF) Fireball(s) - Difficulty:
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

Full Hop Fast Fall (FHFF) Waveland Fireball(s) - Difficulty:
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

WD Back > Grounded Fireball - Difficulty:
Description:
How to Perform:
Note: Credit to Nausicaa.

Fireball From the Ledge > Waveland or Ledge Regrab - Difficulty:
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

What Not to Do
Spam Mindlessly/Be Predictable: Dont just toss them out without looking for your opponent's reactions, without using them to aid in your advantage, or rely on them too much in that your strategy becomes predictable.

Synopsis

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
Dr Mario Melee Megavitamin Tricks: A little different from Fireballs, but the main ideas are the same.
:marth:
Marth
Overview

Damage: 8-28 (no charge-fully charged), forces tumble/tech at 35%
Speed: Average-Slow
Range: Low
Knockback: Average-Great (fully charged kills around 50%)
Total frames: 43 frames (if B is tapped), 22 frames of Endlag,
Hit frames: 16 above Kirby, 19-21 in front of Kirby. Hitbox above Kirby starts frame 5 and frame 8 in front of Kirby if charged.
Shield stun: 5-14* (no charge-fully charged) *Fully charged will break shields un-powershielded

How to Use
Eliminating Shield Option: Bad news, you're not going to break any shields with shield breaker. Getting Marth's power screams "Dont shield". Good news, they're not gonna shield... well as long as you're unpredictable. Always make them fear that you will use shield breaker, otherwise if they know you're gonna aerial, tilt, or smash or w/e they will easily shield, wavedash out, and punish. As long as you remain unpredictable, a good Marth will always respect the shield breaker option and never shield. Use this to your advantage and get easy hits.

Conditioning: Basically opposite of what was said above. Be predictable and condition them to never expect the shield breaker. Despite what I said at the top of the page, if the Marth is good enough this wont work as well, but against mid-high level Marths this is your go to. They'll get used to punishing your predictable moves, and let them punish you... you're making them fall right into your trap. And then spontaneously use shield breaker at times where you would normally be predictable and bam, broken shield. This will only work once or twice though.

Edgeguarding: Not really as useful since Kirby has other options but the option is still there. Charge shield breaker shortly to force the Marth to recover low, release the charge and immediately grab ledge. Or get them offstage and get their 2nd jump.

Shield "Pressure": A trick I saw Pewpewu do with Marth was late spaced Fair on shield > shield breaker. This same concept can be applied to Kirbys moves such as late Bair or Rev. Uair > shield breaker. Works if they hold shield, which you can condition. If they buffer spot dodge they will also get hit. I call this shield pressure because of the amount of damage it puts on shield. Make sure you are safe when you do this, meaning make sure you aren't in danger of losing a stock, stage control, or taking too much %.

ATs

What Not to Do

Synopsis

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
:metaknight:
Meta Knight
Overview

Damage: 2% every slash. Can do up to 26% damage, avg damage being around 19%
Speed: Average
Range: Low
Knockback: Average
Total frames: 31 frames of landing lag (non auto-canceled), 36 frames of endlag
Hit frames: 12-62 (if B is tapped), 12-84 (if B is mashed)
Shield stun: 2 frames per slash

How to Use
Shield Pressure: MK cant roll towards, spotdodge, up-b, or grab it, only roll away. It covers a lot of area and can lead to shield pokes. If you're not feeling a shield poke, its safe to pull away and autocancel.

Option Coverage:

Landing Mixups:

Recovery: One of the best uses for this move. Adds a great deal of horizontal recovery, and can be used out of cutter dash. This allows Kirby to go deep for gimps which he couldnt normally make back.

Edgeguarding: You can stop MK's glide with this and force him to Up-B again which will not have a glide

Combo Finisher:

Approaching:

Juggling:

ATs
Autocancel - Difficulty: ★★★
Description: Out of tornado, Kirby will land with no lag making for immediate movement.
How to Perform: Done by ending the move around a little over the height of Battlefields platforms, this move has no landing lag which make the move a lot safer.
Note: Perfecting this height is critical.

What Not to Do

Synopsis
The amazing 'nado! It isnt MK's PM one, nor is it as good as his Brawl one, its somewhere in the middle but a little bit closer to the brawl version. Because of this, the move is a great to use other than recovery. Against MK, since his sword is amazing, it has to be used carefully because he can beat out the 'nado with most of his moves... so dont spam against good MKs. Air nado has more priority than grounded nado just like Brawl. Can do up to 19% damage.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
:mewtwopm:
Mewtwo
Overview

Damage: 1% if Mewtwo is grounded, 10% if aerial
Speed: Average
Range: Low
Knockback: None if grounded, Average if aerial
Total frames: 39 frames
Hit frames: 12-17
Shield stun: 2 frames

How to Use
Edgeguarding: If you can force Mewtwo to up-b onto the stage, if you're accurate you can disable his landing and punish. As of 3.6, Mewtwo receives more lag on his up-b if mewtwo goes into freefall. This is a pretty huge buff in that it no longer becomes a guessing game whether you can punish the landing lag or not. He has 15 frames of landing lag, disable comes out on frame 12. Hold ledge and make Mewtwo have to teleport on stage, ledgedash, and punish hard.

Harder Punishes: If there is ever a chance where you can punish Mewtwo; such as right after a hard read or a whiffed grab, whiffed aerial, whiffed... anything with lag. Do not punish with an Fsmash or Usmash since if you could, you could also Disable him. Same thing with tech chases, if you can read which way Mewtwo will tech, it's best to punish with disable if you are 100% sure, or if you can remain safe while still maintaining stage control (such as reading the tech in place). You can also jab Mewtwo before he touches the ground, and though it's not guaranteed the mixup could make the Mewtwo player very unexpected of Disable. This will give you more time to put together a more brutal punish.

ATs
Disable out of shield (Oos) - Difficulty: ★★★
Description: Disable will cancel Kirby's jump momentum making it look like Kirby just used Disable oos as if it were a grab.
How to Perform: When in shield jump and immediately press B and you will do a standing disable oos. The timing is strict when done perfectly. You can alter the timing to disable to avoid different moves on shield.
Note: This can lead to harder oos punishes or baits.


Sliding Disable - Difficulty: ★★★
Description: Kirby will slide forward or backwards while using disable. Done correctly covers about a battlefield platform length.
How to Perform: Using the same principle as Disable oos, dash and then use a full momentum jump out of your dash. On the frame you become airborne use Disable. Can also be done backwards by tapping the control stick behind you when you jump.
Note: One of the few techs that I feel is a lot better on Kirby than Mewtwo. This can catch them off guard after some moves, say Nair, Bair, or Dtilt.

What Not to Do
Think you can hit him with a fully charged Smash: Mewtwo can wiggle out of the disable stun fairly easy, all disable does is give you enough time to punish a little harder than you would have normally. Half a charge is basically all you are going to get. Half charged U-smash can kill ~85%. Hammer is a free kill ~75%. Tests were done on FD, of course take in how big the stage is.

Punish with Smashes or Hammer at low %:

Synopsis

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
:gw:
Mr. Game & Watch
Overview

Damage: Bacon does 4%, Pan 5%
Speed: Quick
Range: Good (bacon), Low (pan)
Knockback: Low (bacon), Average (pan)
Total frames: 38 frames, 30 frames of Endlag (starts when hitbox starts), Land cancel is 4 frames
Hit frames: Pan hitbox 8-9, Bacon 8-85
Shield stun: 3 frames (bacon), 4 frames (pan)

How to Use
Stopping Approaches:

Edgeguarding:

Kill Confirms: Hitting the bacon at kill %s can allow you to combo into kill moves such as Hammer or Uair before Up-B comes out. Big ?, need to test. Can Kirby follow up with a kill move from the pan hitstun at kill %s?

ATs
Land Cancel - Difficulty:
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

Silent Bacon - Difficulty: ★★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

0 Landing Lag Soft Landing - Difficulty: ★★★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

Short Hop Triple Bacon - Difficulty: ★★★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

What Not to Do

Synopsis

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
Oracle vs Dakpo GnW Dittos:
Dakpo vs MrLz GnW Dittos:
:ness2:
Ness
Overview

Damage: 8-22 (no charge-fully charged)
Speed: Slow
Range: Great
Knockback: Great
Total frames: 8 frames of endlag (starts when 1st frame of hitbox starts)
Hit frames: 95-97 (fully charged)
Shield stun: 5-11 frames

How to Use
Edgeguarding: Get Ness offstage to a point where he has to recover low and PK thunder to recover. He has to come back towards the stage to live so you have an idea where hes going to go. As hes moving the bolt around, sneak in a PK flash. It has to be used before he starts it to hit him before he launches, but you can also hit the launch with it as well. If he goes for the ledge, aim for the ledge. The hitbox is big enough that he cant sweetspot without getting hit.

ATs

What Not to Do
Use at low %s:

Synopsis
By itself it isnt that good but against Ness its very useful. Almost everyone remembers the time Chudat used this against a Ness. Since this was one of the few that was shown to look good, most people think this is the best one. It certainly is useful, but its by no means the best. Ness has to be offstage at high % for it to have any use. PK flash is a really large explosion that Ness can absorb, watch out for this because it heals him greatly.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
:olimar:
Olimar
Overview

Damage: Red 1%, Yellow 2%, Blue 3%, White 4%, Purple 5%
Speed: Slow
Range: Good
Knockback: Low
Total frames: 37 frames, 13 frames of Endlag (calculated when hitbox starts), Land cancel is 4 frames
Hit frames: 24~ (until object hit)
Shield stun: Red/Yellow 2 frames, Blue/White 3 frames, Purple 4 frames

How to Use
Stopping Approaches:

Edgeguarding:

ATs
Land Cancel Pluck (LCP) - Difficulty: ★★
Description: Because Kirby/Olimar cannot pluck pikmin in the air, the move's animation ends, thus auto canceling once you hit the ground. Kirby doesnt get the bounce so its easier to perform.
How to Perform: Press B right before you hit the ground. With B-reverse tricks you can mix up your movement and increase your aerial mobility.
Note: This is useful as a kind of animation mindgame, for example if they are in shield and you threaten with an aerial you can LCP to make them think you threw out an aerial so they try to punish your lag which you could then avoid an punish.

What Not to Do

Synopsis
Yes, this move is just a pluck and toss. The projectile in a vacuum is not that good, but against olimar is very good, very similar to Ness' in that way. Each pikmin has knockback, the cooldown isnt too bad, and it out prioritizes all of Olimar's pikmin except purples. It covers a lot of space and makes it pretty hard to Olimar to get in. Downsides are, you cannot throw pikmin in the air, and the startup is pretty slow.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
Chudat vs Logic:
:peach:
Peach
Overview

Damage: 3% per spore, 18% in total
Speed: Average
Range: Good
Knockback: Average
Total frames: 64 frames, Intangibility frames 11-14, Spores come out every 3 frames
Hit frames: Active 11-31
Shield stun: 3 frames per spore

How to Use
Stop Approaches:

Conditioning:

ATs

What Not to Do

Synopsis

This move is a counter, same as Marth's, Ike's, or Roy's; meaning once you use it, it will stop all attacks in their tracks and punish back with its own attack. If you're wondering why this is so low, its because it totally depends on reading your opponent and if you guess wrong... that's a lot of damage and possibly a stock because of its endlag. You have to be an expert at pulling counter mindgames off consistently for this ability to be of much use.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos or Guides
How to Use Toad Guide: Its about Brawl, but a lot of the stuff applies to PM Toad.
:pikachu2:
Pikachu
Overview

Damage: 7%, 10% (ball lightning)
Speed: Slow
Range: Good
Knockback: Low
Total frames: 48 frames
Hit frames: 19-117
Shield stun: 5 frames

How to Use
Controlling Space: Given the angle Tjolt travels, and how it moves along the ground, this move covers a lot of space making it hard for Pika to effectively do what he wants. It will be difficult for Pika to get in on you if there is a jolt hopping towrds him, so they can effectively cover a lot of Pika's approach options. Plus it can force Pika to stop so that he can shield, avoid, jump, or attack the projectile. Tjolt approaches can and should be used frequently. From a full hop, you can auto cancel your landing for maximum fluidity of movement. They serve as a great distraction so you can get into a great position to catch them with possibly an attack or a grab as they are trying to avoid the projectile.

Edgeguarding: It can be a really simple, yet effective, to deal with Pika's that want to recover low. Take their 2nd jump. Also it will beat out his Quick Attack, and stop his Skull Bash (more notable), making Pika a lot easier to gimp. Now that they'll want to avoid this, they will most likely recover even with the stage, which can lead to punishes. Careful, being a second to late can help their recovery.

Edge Pressure: It can really mess with them on the ledge. With a T-jolt or two coming their way they will probably want to use their invincibility frames to avoid them, meaning they'll get up fast. Its best to place or time a T-jolt to hit them when invincibility would normally wear off from the ledge, AND a 2nd semi-approaching T-jolt to follow it to punish either the shield or attack option. Placements depend on the player, with experience you will have a feeling where to place them.

Baiting: Tjolt is an excellent baiter. Pika's know that Tjolt is a pretty good move, and once they see a Kirby copy it they'll expect you to spam it. Once you start using it, they'll expect you to do it again. They'll avoid your projectile and start falling into a pattern. Watch what they do the first couple of times and most likely they'll do it again. Plan which Tjolt will be your last and punish appropriately.

Recovery: Tjolt can make it a lot harder for Pika to try to edgeguard you. With your already great recovery, recover high and mix up the timing to the Tjolts, but not too high where you can be killed off by thunder. Think around the height of the top platform of Battlefield or Dreamland. Of course if you see Pika trying to get in on you, its your job to not Tjolt and avoid it.

ATs

What Not to Do
Use When Grounded At Kill %s: You will be immobilized by the end lag, in the air you can at least control your aerial momentum. Pikachu's up smash will kill you mad early, its best to avoid anything that could make landing that move easier.

Mindlessly Spam: This move has a lot of end lag and you can get heavily punished if you use it in the wrong situation, air or ground.

Synopsis
Its basically an inferior Mario fireball in terms of usage and properties except for the fact that this one travels along surfaces, thus covering a lot of ground space making it easier for you to approach and harder for him. It can also be used as an edgeguarding tool, pressure tool, or even a baiting tool to help with your punish game. With Kirby's multiple jumps, he can use it better than Pika can since it makes it more versitile. Always be unpredictable with these.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
Axe vs Anther Pikachu Dittos SS LQs:
Axe vs Nair Pika Dittos:
:pit:
Pit
Overview

Damage: 5-11% (no charge-fully charged)
Speed: Slow
Range: Amazing
Knockback: Low
Total frames: 45 frames (or 30 frames after release)
Hit frames: 20~ (or 6 frames after B is released)
Shield stun: 4-6 frames (no charge-fully charged)

How to Use
Edgeguarding:

Recovery:

Combo Extender:

Ranged Damage:

Mental Pressure:

ATs
Arrow Loop (AL) - Difficulty: ★★★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

Arrow Angling - Difficulty: ★★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

Arrow Rain (AR) - Difficulty: ★★★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

Arrow Option Select - Difficulty: ★★★★★
Description: The reason many people consider AL and AR not viable in tournament is because as you're looping, you're walking... turning around... crouching... etc. just to get that arrow to loop when in fact you could be applying pressure and playing neutral. What if there was a way to do both? Using arrow option select makes AL and AR A LOT more viable.
How to Perform: Well what is it exactly? To be honest, there is no definite definition to what it is or how to do it. Arrows will loop whether you are doing a move or not, and knowing this wouldn't it be better to Dash Attack, Roll, Aerial, etc. while you are looping? This works because when you do a move, you are locked into an animation for a short amount of time and in that time you can do whatever; usually it doesn't matter what direction you are holding unless it is DI, but also unless you are looping an arrow. Video examples below show this in action if you are still confused.
Note: Not an official term, but any good Brawl Pit will know what this is.


Perfect Aim - Difficulty: ★★★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

What Not to Do

Synopsis
Not as good as Pits, but still one of the best projectiles in the game. At perfect play they are definitely the best, but I am aware not to completely consider that as the norm. Arrows can be controlled with the control stick whether or not you are able to use a move or if you are even alive, and thus can become very lethal if you know how to use them. Be careful tho, Pit can reflect them with his Down-B.

Inspiratoinal/Helpful Videos
Yass' Combo Video: I know, its Brawl, but bare with it this once, the video gets the point across. Watch how he combos and edgeguards with the arrows. Look at how he uses Arrow Option Select. If you're still confused about what Arrow Option Select is 4:02 is a great example. How is he able to Side-B AND loop the arrow? You guessed it!

Cyve's Combo Video: Another example from Brawl, very similar to Yass' in terms of edgeguards, combos, and control. Cyve is one of Europe's best Pits, realize that those tricks are very possible at high level play.

Nairo's Dark Pit vs ESAM: Yeah yeah, literally two different characters in different engines. Besides that, the way Nairo uses arrows is very similar to the idea of using Pit's arrows in PM. I know its a custom, but its a custom that resembles PM arrows. Look at the ways Nairo uses it, when he uses it, and ask why he arrowed in these situations.
:rob:
R.O.B.
Overview

Damage: 5-9%
Speed: Slow, No charge crosses FD in 8 frames, Fully charged crosses FD in 20 frames
Range: Amazing
Knockback: Low-Average
Total frames: 49 frames, 18 frames of hitstun no charge, 33 frames of hitstun fully charged
Hit frames: 25-27 uncharged, 25-37 charged, 25-72 supercharged
Shield stun: 4-6 frames

How to Use
Stopping Gyro Charge:

Stopping Robo Boosts:

Sniping Jumps:

Punishing from Long Range:

ATs

What Not to Do

Synopsis

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
DrinkingFood vs Oracle R.O.B. Dittos BR13 WFs:
:roypm:
Roy
Overview

Damage: 8-50%
Speed: Average
Range: Low
Knockback: Average-Amazing
Total frames: 43 frames tapped, 162 for fully charged, 22 frames of endlag
Hit frames: 16 (above Kirby), 19-21 (in front of Kirby), 139 (fully charged)
Shield stun: 5-24 frames

How to Use
Edgeguarding:

Combo Finisher:

ATs

What Not to Do
Charge while Roy is recovering:
Use in Neutral:

Synopsis
The poor range is not as bad as most think. It has more range than UAir, is disjointed, and sends Roy at a mostly horizontal angle. Fully charged is a OHKO but you take 10% damage.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
:samus2:
Samus
Overview

Damage: 3-25%
Speed: Slow
Range: Great
Knockback: Great, Kills around 100% center stage
Total frames: 31 frames after shot, 8 frames to stop charging, 13 frames of hitstun uncharged, 61 frames of hitstun fully charged
Hit frames: Smallest shot on frame 18, Fully charged shot on frame 16, Shot on frame 3 during charge
Shield stun: 3-13 frames (no charge-fully charged)

How to Use
Edgeguarding: When Samus is bomb jumping back to recover hit her with a charge shot. Since you can go out there with little risk it should be simple to hit. Also if she is offstage, grab the edge and force her to tether; once she gets onstage just ledge jump charge shot.

Option Coverage: Cover her double jumps, read her up-b oos, cover her bomb recovery, cover her rolls, cover her techs. D-throw auto tech chases now, and if Samus picks an option and techs in front of you (by teching forward, or in place, or no tech [jab reset]) you can hit her with the charge shot. Same goes with platforms, a properly timed shot can cover all of her options. Know when it kills (around 100%) so that it serves maximum punishment. This also works with NAir, Reverse UAir, Dtilt, etc. Just experiment what sends Samus into tumble and forces tech.

Tech Traps: From a D-throw around the 70-90% mark you can Ftilt samus before she can hit the ground. This will in turn force her to hit the ground slightly later causing her to miss her tech. From there just cover her options. Delay it slightly if you think she will miss-tech roll (most common) so that it can cover roll in. If you think she'll neutral get up or roll away, fire immediately.

Make F-throw Useful: F-throw is known to be pretty "bad" since DI away avoids follow ups, fast horizontal hitboxes will cover this option. So out of F-throw charge shot will combo and kill if they DI away around 100% (kill %) possibly earlier or later depending on stage position of course. At the edges it can kill below 70%, which F-throw can also combo and kill into double jump hammer if they don't DI or DI in.

Mental Pressure: Like DK or Lucario, charging the shot makes Samus want to hit you. Also when you have the fully charged shot it puts psychological pressure on your opponent making them think you will use it. Make them fear every option they make.

Controlling Space: An underused option of the shot would be to shoot it at its minimum charge. It still has a lot of range, and against a character that will try to keep you out with projectiles it is amazing. Makes her second guess thowing out projectiles and makes it harder for her to approach or camp.

ATs
Quick Charge - Difficulty: ★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

What Not to Do
Use at Low %s:

Synopsis

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
HugS vs Plup Samus Dittos Salty Suite:
:sheik:
Sheik
Overview

Damage: 3%, max. 6 shots for 18%
Speed: Quick
Range: Great
Knockback: Low
Total frames: Can be caneclled on frame 8, 1st click on frame 9 Every other click 19 frames apart, 8 frames to stop charging, 40 frames in total. Land cancel is 4 frames, ~14 frames of hitstun per needle un CCed
Hit frames: 11-39 (per needle) Needles come out every 3 frames
Shield stun: 3 frames per needle

How to Use
Edgeguarding:

Ranged Damage:

Option Coverage:

Landing Traps:

Pressure & Baits:

ATs
Land Cancel - Difficulty: ★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

Needle Turnaround - Difficulty: ★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

Needle Grab (w/ Mixups) - Difficulty: ★★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

0 Landing Lag Shield Cancel - Difficulty: ★★★★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

What Not to Do

Synopsis
Dominate large blocks of the stage at a given time while tacking on damage and stopping approaches. Snipe her jumps when recovering for easier edgeguards.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
M2k vs KirbyKaze Sheik Dittos RoM7 WFs:
Flash vs Shroomed Sheik Dittos WSs:
M2k vs Mango Sheik Ditto edgeguard example:
Plup vs Shroomed Sheik Ditto edgeugard example #2:
:snake:
Snake
Overview

Damage: 12% (explosion), 3-1% (grenade hit close range-long range)
Speed: Quick
Range: Great
Knockback: Good
Total frames: Shield cancellable frame 20, 38 frames of tumble hitstun, 18 frames of endlag (after grenade is thrown), Item throw animation takes 24 frames
Hit frames: Grenade out on frame 9, Thrown on frame 26, Grenade thrown frame 9 if B is held and released, Explosion on frame 97-100
Shield stun: 6 frames (explosion), 3-2 frames (grenade hit close range-long range)

How to Use
Avoiding the Tranquilizer:

Long Range KO's:

Combo Starter & Kill Setups:

Recovery:

Shield Pressure:

Defense:

Mental Pressure:

ATs
Jump Cancellable Grenade Throw - Difficulty: ★★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

0 Landing Lag Shield Cancel - Difficulty: ★★★★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

Instagrab - Difficulty: ★★★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

Instathrow & AGT - Difficulty: ★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

What Not to Do

Synopsis
Nades are a really great projectile due to its versatility. You can use it better than Snake in almost every aspect. It can be used before Snake puts you to sleep which will either wake you up before Snake can attack you, or hit you both if you are too close. It dramatically increases your movement and also can set up for flashy combos.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
Professor Pro vs Rolex $100 MM:
:sonic:
Sonic
Overview

Damage: 8%
Speed: Slow
Range: Great
Knockback: Average
Total frames: Selects target frame 24-25, IASA after hit frame 33, 41 frames of landing lag 25 frames of hitstun, 37 frames of tumble hitstun, 70 total frames
Hit frames: 26-40 (or until object hit)
Shield stun: 5 frames

How to Use
Recovery:

Tech Chasing:

Combo Finisher:

Edgeguarding:

ATs

What Not to Do

Synopsis

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
:squirtle:
Squirtle
Overview

Damage: None (watergun), 2% x 7 (bubble)
Speed: Slow
Range: Low-Good (bubble-water gun)
Knockback: Low, Forces tumble (and tech or no tech) at 99% fully charged
Total frames: Shield cancellable frame 20, Windboxes out every 3 frames, 80 frames to fully charge
Hit frames: 26-49, 29-52, 32-55, 35-58, 38-61 ...
Shield stun: 2 frames per bubble hit

How to Use
Edgeguarding: When squirtle is offstage, he has to use up-b to recover which sends him into freefall. If you can get Squirtle to up-b early and above the stage, water gun will blow him away so he falls right past the ledge into the blastzone.

Recovery: Not a very good option but reversing the direction of the water gun so that your back is facing the stage will give Kirby a lot of momentum which can be used to fly back towards the stage without having to use any jumps. Very punishable.

ATs
0 Landing Lag Shield Cancel: ★★★★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

What Not to Do

Synopsis
Unlike squirtle's watergun, this move is purely a windbox. Uncharged, also unlike squirtles, does a short-ranged multi-hit bubble move (from Brawl); it isnt very safe or useful in any situation so stick to the fully charged version for now. The charged version will send your opponent in the direction of the water flow.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
:toonlink:
Toon Link
Overview

Damage: 6-10% (no charge-fully charged)
Speed: Quick (with quickdraw), Slow (without quickdraw)
Range: Low-Great (no charge-fully charged)
Knockback: Low
Total frames: Flame stays on ground for 119 frames, 24 frames of endlag, 25 frames of hitstun
Hit frames: 1 (with quickdraw), 18 (without quickdraw and B is tapped), Arrow comes out 2 frames after B is released during a charge
Shield stun: 4-6 frames (no charge-fully charged)

How to Use
Covering Options:

Covering Approaches:

Combo Extending:

Kill Setups:

ATs
Quickdraw - Difficulty: ★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

Battle Christ Arrow Trick (BCAT) & The Jerk - Difficulty: ★★★★ (BCAT) ★★★★★ (The Jerk)
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

What Not to Do

Synopsis

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
:warioc:
Wario
Overview

Damage: 5% per bite, 5% on release
Speed: Quick
Range: Low
Knockback: Low
Total frames: 21 frames of endlag (after grabbox ends)
Hit frames: Active frames 8-18 (if B is tapped) otherwise infinite
Shield stun: None

How to Use
A better command grab: Bite comes out 1 frame before inhale does (frame 8 vs 9), and you have to option to move around in the air while using it. Also when you get it, you will do more damage with bite than you would inhale; starshot always does 10%... and you will most likely get at least 2 bites in. This move does lack in range though compared to inhale, but inhales range doesn't start until much later; and statistically I can say most of the time the extra range does not matter. Overall this move is just one or a few notches higher than inhale, getting it is basically an upgrade. On average you will get around 25% from this. The way you land it becomes an art, good Warios know when they would bite and try to avoid that position at all costs; aka they may not shield in certain situations and throw out a move, which you can bait and punish.

ATs

What Not to Do

Synopsis

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
Coney's Wario good chomp examples vs Kyari: Watch the whole set, look at when and why he uses bite. Main purpose is to catch shields but pay attention thats not all.

Coney's Smash 4 Wario chomp examples #2 vs Tantalus: Its not PM but the way he uses chomp is still just as good. Pay attention to the good bites, notice the bad ones. Ask yourself why the bite at 0:57 was bad. Why was the bite at 1:50 good? Notice how he mixes it up, he doesnt always come down with a bite when landing.
:wolf:
Wolf
Overview

Damage: 3-5% (long range-close range), 4% (gun hit)
Speed: Average
Range: Great
Knockback: Low
Total frames: 44 frames, Airdodge on frame 16, 19 frames of hitstun
Hit frames: Gun hit 11-12 (1 frame above, 1 in front), Laser 16-69
Shield stun: 3-4% (long range-close range), 3% (gun hit)

How to Use
Controlling Space:

Kill Setups:

Edgeguarding:

ATs
Waveland Lasers - Difficulty: ★★★
Description:
How to Perform:
Note:

What Not to Do

Synopsis

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
:yoshi2:
Yoshi
Overview

Damage: 7%
Speed: Slow
Range: Low
Knockback: None
Total frames: Intangibility 7-29 frames after capture, IASA frame 30 after capture, Opponent has 14 frames of intangibility after egg break, 39 frames total (whiffed), 18 frames of endlag
Hit frames: 17-21
Shield stun: None

How to Use
Damaging Command Grab: Similar to Wario's, catching your opponent in the egg does almost as much damage as starshot normally would. The range is similar to Kirby's Dtilt. The IASA frames after egg lay makes movement almost immediate, so most likely you will catch them with a move such as Uair, Bair, or maybe Hammer before they can break out. But because Yoshi is in the egg, he takes half damage from any of your attacks. If you get them with both hits of the hammer they will take 23% damage total. SH Uair > Utilt x2 will do 22% damage total. Experiment to see how you can get the best punish. The reason it isn't as good as Wario's is because the grab-box is out for a smaller length of time making for a more precise execution, and large amounts of damage aren't guaranteed.

ATs
Egg Lay Time Out - Difficulty: ★★★★★
Description: Kirby will attempt to eat yoshi but wont, leaving yoshi standing directly in front of Kirby.
How to Perform: This is where at max range the move does not actually eat Yoshi but just brings him towards him similar to a tether grab. Out of it you can catch them off guard with a move. Aerial, tilt, smash... maybe even hammer! It is very difficult to position yourself for it though.
Note: Dont worry this isnt a stalling technique or anything, it's just the official name for the AT.

Egg Lay Chain - Difficulty:
Description: Yoshi breaks out of the egg only to get eaten again.
How to Perform: This is done by reading the trajectory out of the break out, positioning yourself to get Yoshi with egg lay, reacting to the break out, reading anything other than jump or wait, and then press B.
Note: If yoshi does anything else besides jump out of egg lay, he is open for another one. Psuedo infinite if your opponent is bad lol.

What Not to Do

Synopsis

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
Zudenka Egg Lay Chain in Brawl example:
:zelda:
Zelda
Overview

Damage: 1% x 5 hits, 5% on last hit. 10% in total
Speed: Average
Range: Low
Knockback: Average
Total frames: Intangibility 5-12, Land cancel is 4 frames, around 39 frames of tumble hitstun on last hit, 69 frames in total
Hit frames: Hit and Reflect frame 13, Hitbox out every 3 frames
Shield stun: 2 frames per hit

How to Use
Defense:

Landing & Getting Onstage:

Shield Pressure:

Combo Starter:

ATs
Land Cancel - Difficulty: ★★
Description: After the final hitbox of this move is out, it will autocancel on landing
How to Perform: Position yourself so that right when the move ends you touch the floor. This can happen out of sh aerials as well such as Bair or Uair if you double jump first.
Note: This can lead to pressure or potential combo starters.

Nayru Out of Shield - Difficulty: ★★★
Description: While in shield, you immediately Nayru. It should look like you never left the ground.
How to Perform: Similar to shine oos, the frame Kirby enters the air after a jump (frame 4) press B.
Note: This is a great defensive option to get Zelda away from you during any kind of shield pressure if unsafe.

What Not to Do

Synopsis
Nayru's is great move, especially since it can land cancel. Nayru's is a fast acting move with deceiving range and priority, and also acts as a reflector (which really isnt a factor in the Zelda matchup). It has been used as a panic move from expert Zelda players, for good reason. Multiple autocancelled hits on shield, combined with Kirby's landing duck really makes this move a safe option for shield pressure. This move can even lead to a few combos at lower %s. However, do not be predictable this move, you will be punished.

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
Zhime vs Malachi: Great examples of Nayru's being put to good use. I chose a match against Peach because she is floaty, disreguard the turnip reflects. Zhime uses it for shield pressure at 2:24, think of ways Kirby can keep up the pressure or apply mixups from that situation. Ask yourself what Zhime should have done to avoid getting punished. Also note how afterwards Zhime ues the Nayrus to get back on stage. 9:08 is a great example of its combo potential if they DI in your favor, he couldve still gotten that fair if the dins wasnt there. Think of what Kirby could have possibly done in that situation; Dair? Uair? Hammer? Note the % too, that matters.
:zerosuitsamus:
Zero Suit Samus
Overview

Damage: 4-6% (no charge-fully charged)
Speed: Slow
Range: Great
Knockback: Low
Total frames: 17 frames of endlag after laser is shot, If B is held for 20 frames it will shoot a fully charged laser, 16 frames of hitstun (no charge), 49 frames of hitstun (fully charged), Dash cancel frame 41
Hit frames: 21-53 (no charge) 41-106 (fully charged)
Shield stun: 3-4 frames (no charge-fully charged)

How to Use
Covering Approaches:

Edgeguarding:

ATs
Dash Cancel - Difficulty: ★★
Description: Right as Kirby fires his fully charged paralyzer he can start running forwards.
How to Perform: Done by inputting a dash as soon as you fire a shot.
Note: Kirby can still dash cancel the charged version. O_o
What Not to Do

Synopsis

Inspirational/Helpful Videos
:GCB:+:GCL:/:GCR:
Turnaround-B - Difficulty: ★★
The most basic type of the B-reversals. It's done by tapping the control stick in the opposite direction you are facing and within 25 frames pressing the B button. This turns your character around and activates the move. This is the only one of the three that existed in Melee.

B-reversing - Difficulty: ★★★
This is a slightly more applicable technique however it is only a little harder to do than the first. To do this simply press B then quickly slam the stick in the opposite direction that Kirby is facing within 4 frames. This makes Kirby change the direction he is facing and his momentum will be reversed. This can also be applied to all of Kirby's specials. (Hammer, Rock, Final Cutter, etc.). Shifts your aerial momentum to avoid attacks, or to approach.

Wavebouncing - Difficulty: ★★★★
This is a good deal more useful than B-reversing, but it is definitely the hardest. This technique is basically B-reversing the Turnaround-B. Remember how there are 25 frames where you can turnaround-b while there are 4 frames to b-reverse. To do this consistently, simply tap the control stick in the opposite direction you are facing, and then slam the control stick in the direction you are facing while pressing B within 4 frrames all within 25 frames. It sounds complicated at first, but if you can dash dance it shouldnt be that hard. Simply in the air do, what would be, a dash dance and when you would hear the 2nd click (of your controller hitting the side during a dash dance) press B within 4 frames of that. This can also be applied to all of Kirby's specials.

Synopsis
Easily Kirby's most useful and applicable advanced technique once mastered. It basically is manipulating your direction and/or momentum in the air with your neutral B, and since Kirby has the most neutral Bs in the game this technique is almost required. This can be used to escape pressure, adjust spacing, or to just mix them up. Once you master this start playing around with it you'll start to see many uses for it. You can do B-reverse tricks with all of the Copy Abilities except a few (Samus, Sonic, MK) so it isnt mentioned in any ATs unless there is a significant difference.
 
Last edited:

Ogopogo

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Messages
568
Location
Middle TN
3DS FC
3797-6544-0935
I'm not sure if Olimar's ability really is so good. It's just a pluck and throw AFAIK.

Is Tornado still Brawl duration? Wario's Chomp is Brawl's, so you can tack on quite a bit of percent with it.
 

FreeGamer

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
584
Location
Dream Land
I don't think Nayru's Love is remotely that good on Kirby. Giant Punch should be lower, and Charge Shot and Fire Breath should be higher. Aside from those, I agree with your list.
 

Phan7om

ドリームランドの悪夢
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
1,615
Location
???
I don't think Nayru's Love is remotely that good on Kirby. Giant Punch should be lower, and Charge Shot and Fire Breath should be higher. Aside from those, I agree with your list.
Agree with the changes?
 

Jethroo

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 25, 2013
Messages
249
Location
Alabama
I agree with the fire breath.

Zelda's should be lowered in my opinion especially if it is being used against another zelda who you stole the power from. Against other character it could be more useful, but that would be in a doubles game. I would rather inhale and spit her under the stage to.

Also, I think a video of all these moves would be a nice addition to this page if there isn't already one.
 
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SSS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
858
Location
Glendale, AZ (rip Irvine, CA)
I would personally move Sheik down. I would move down Zelda and Wario, and probs Olimar. I would move DK, Roy, Marth, Ike down. I would move Snake and MK up. I would move Link, Toon Link, Charizard, and Ice Climbers up.

Also isn't DDD's just a better version of ours?
 

Phan7om

ドリームランドの悪夢
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
1,615
Location
???
I would personally move Sheik down. I would move down Zelda and Wario, and probs Olimar. I would move DK, Roy, Marth, Ike down. I would move Snake and MK up. I would move Link, Toon Link, Charizard, and Ice Climbers up.

Also isn't DDD's just a better version of ours?
True Snakes and MKs needs to be raised now that I think of it. Also the others could probably move down too. Olimar tho, is a really underrated move, a lot of Brawl kirbies like Chudat and whoever thought Olimar was one of the best ones in Brawl because of edgeguarding, so I kinda assumed the same thing, but then again tethers are buffed so it might be different. I could possibly see potential in TL and Links, but why Charizard and ICs... they dont really seem that good to me. Also there are many things abuot D3's inhale that Kirby cannot do. You cannot maneuver around like D3 when using it aerially, and it pops you upward so if you try to kirbycide they could mash out and survive. So imo, the slightly better range doesnt make up for the things it lacks. I explain these things in the spoiler tab.
 
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Phan7om

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Maybe I should specify what top/high etc. tier means in this situation.
 

Garde Noir

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I like that Falco's is useful while Fox's isn't. It's proof that you actually know what you're talking about. However, I think Tornado (MK) for Kirby is useful, if not just for extra recovery and priority pressure
 

Phan7om

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I like that Falco's is useful while Fox's isn't. It's proof that you actually know what you're talking about. However, I think Tornado (MK) for Kirby is useful, if not just for extra recovery and priority pressure
Im tryin man, im tryin. Thanks for the input.
 

Jethroo

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Idk, I know in the Zelda ditto matchup its a really good move. It can land cancel, plus jump/drop your momentum so its easier to avoid Dins Fire combos. True, it sounds a lot better on paper tho.
Doesn't kirby's naryu have less range then zelda's? Also, i just see bad things happening even if the lag is slightly reduced by land canceling it. It would be a terrible idea to use this on the ground against zelda to. Very laggy and very punishable.

Edit: For snake besides the shot hop inhales spit out, i never really used inhale to much on him. Would grenades be that bad to use in a match?
 
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Phan7om

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Doesn't kirby's naryu have less range then zelda's? Also, i just see bad things happening even if the lag is slightly reduced by land canceling it. It would be a terrible idea to use this on the ground against zelda to. Very laggy and very punishable.

Edit: Besides the shot hop inhales spit out, i never really used inhale to much on him. Would grenades be that bad to use in a match?
I mean, i see what youre saying. But no one would use this move on the ground right next to Zelda. Thats like using a Fireball when Mario is right next to you. It land cancels the same as Falco's laser I thought, so even if they sheild you could grab or whatever due to sheild stun. Plus, it really helps avoid followups with Naryu dives and Love jumps. Though I did recognize that it is a lot worse than I originally thought it was... when making this list it was #3.
 

Garde Noir

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Im tryin man, im tryin. Thanks for the input.
no need to change anything, just saying what I feel.
Personally I never use abilities, just because I like the intimidation of sucking it up. The only reason I put my input is because the Suck doesn't create a ton of pressure on Meta Knight anyways.
 

Garde Noir

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Doesn't kirby's naryu have less range then zelda's? Also, i just see bad things happening even if the lag is slightly reduced by land canceling it. It would be a terrible idea to use this on the ground against zelda to. Very laggy and very punishable.

Edit: For snake besides the shot hop inhales spit out, i never really used inhale to much on him. Would grenades be that bad to use in a match?
Kirby has significantly smaller range on Nayru's.
 

Ogopogo

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I don't think it needs to be increased in size that much. Small guy, small annoying shield.

I'd put DK in High tier, as well as MK. Inhale only really has 2 purposes after copying abilities: setting up hammers and bad DI, and Kirbyciding.
 

Jethroo

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Prepare to have your spit and swallow list changed! Because Nayru's Love just got better for him. I present: The Diamond Dive
The Diamond Dive is interesting. However, Kirby doesn't have the same problem with being juggled and getting back to the ground as zelda does especially against zelda. So, it shouldn't really make her position in the tier list that much better. I'm interested, however, of how potentially different kirby's diamond dive could be from zelda's.

Also, in 3.0 nayru's love land cancel lag was increased slightly. Combined that with fighting zelda and kirby's nayru's inferior range it may in fact be a major disadvantage to use in a fight. This is all my opinions though since i have never really fought a zelda with kirby, but she is my alt so i have at least a basic understanding of her.

I think we will have to discuss doubles and singles as separate tier lists. In singles the abilities will be used against the same character you stole it from while in doubles it will be used against potentially 2 different opponents (if you absorb your teammate's power).

Keep up the good work gohan.
 
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DarkStarStorm

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Thanks man, Ive known the Nayru tricks for a while. It was actually Top Tier, but I moved it down some.
Well this Nayru's trick was just discovered by me. Not even Zhime knew about it sooooo......
The Diamond Dive is interesting. However, Kirby doesn't have the same problem with being juggled and getting back to the ground as zelda does especially against zelda. So, it shouldn't really make her position in the tier list that much better. I'm interested, however, of how potentially different kirby's diamond dive could be from zelda's.

Also, in 3.0 nayru's love land cancel lag was increased slightly. Combined that with fighting zelda and kirby's nayru's inferior range it may in fact be a major disadvantage to use in a fight. This is all my opinions though since i have never really fought a zelda with kirby, but she is my alt so i have at least a basic understanding of her.

I think we will have to discuss doubles and singles as separate tier lists. In singles the abilities will be used against the same character you stole it from while in doubles it will be used against potentially 2 different opponents (if you absorb your teammate's power).

Keep up the good work gohan.
Look on my channel for Wing-it Wednesdays: Diamond Diving. It shows Kirby doing it in Brawl and PM. It is more useful for Kirby to use it to get out of combos, it's shorter and thus less punishable.
 

Jethroo

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Look on my channel for Wing-it Wednesdays: Diamond Diving. It shows Kirby doing it in Brawl and PM. It is more useful for Kirby to use it to get out of combos, it's shorter and thus less punishable.
I skipped to the end of the video where you show it with kirby and i can't see any reason why this would be a game changer for kirby.
If kirby wants to get out of juggle i believe nair and brick would be more us
My "opinion" is that it is slow, short, and actually puts you in a vulnerable position as kirby. From a 1 on 1 perspective against zelda it is unnecessary and more dangerous then safe. Even against the cpu sheik you used it against, you got Fair because of it. If that was zelda that's a lightning kick.
To escape from juggling i generally rely on kirby's Nair if they are close and brick if i need to get to the ground.

I would appreciate other kirby's giving their opinion to.
 
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DarkStarStorm

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I skipped to the end of the video where you show it with kirby and i can't see any reason why this would be a game changer for kirby.
My "opinion" is that it is slow, short, and actually puts you in a vulnerable position as kirby. From a 1 on 1 perspective against zelda it is unnecessary and more dangerous then safe. Even against the cpu sheik you used it against, you got Fair because of it. If that was zelda that's a lightning kick.

I would appreciate other kirby's giving their opinion to.
It would be used as an evasive maneuver, you can go forwards and backwards with it so it could be used to dodge knees or lightning kicks. But I see your point, by me posting this here it is the Kirby mains opinions of this AT's uses that will determine where it's placed. You're right, it does make you vulnerable, but it still has uses.
 
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Jethroo

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It would be used as an evasive maneuver, you can go forwards and backwards with it so it could be used to dodge knees or lightning kicks. But I see your point, by me posting this here it is the Kirby mains opinions of this AT's uses that will determine where it's placed. You're right, it does make you vulnerable, but it still has uses.
It could be much better then i think because it is untested new technology. That's why i would like other kirby's opinions.
 

Phan7om

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Well this Nayru's trick was just discovered by me. Not even Zhime knew about it sooooo......
Nayru tricks as in how you can Love Jump, Love Drop, and cancel momentum, but I like your new discovery... though if you havent had discovered it, Id probably be the next one in line to do so lol. There are many tricks that I know about a lot of the cast's nB that a lot of the best players dont even know.
 

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Nayru tricks as in how you can Love Jump, Love Drop, and cancel momentum, but I like your new discovery... though if you havent had discovered it, Id probably be the next one in line to do so lol. There are many tricks that I know about a lot of the cast's nB that a lot of the best players dont even know.
I found it back in 2.5 and just never told anyone until now. Could you share some of these b tricks? Especially with Brawl Lucas?
 

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I found it back in 2.5 and just never told anyone until now. Could you share some of these b tricks? Especially with Brawl Lucas?
Well... Brawl Lucas's nB didnt really have anything, the only real thing it did was allowed you to shoot from a platform at high speed if you ran off of it at the right time and autocancel as you touched the ground. PM Lucas' copy ability seems to not be as useful, at least to me, as Lucas' is to Kirby. You might be able to edgecancel or some shenanigans, but im not sure. There are some that dont really have any tricks. Some tricks that ive found (arent groundbreaking to the level of yours) include something like ZSS dash-jump cancel stunner, disable gliding, pikmin pluck b-reverse tricks, and kill setups like Ivysaur, DK, and Roy. I discoverd this stuff myself, but idk if anyone else did before me. (Except the kill setups of course). There is probably much more than this, but a lot of the abilities are not the same.
 

G13_Flux

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i would like to note that when kirby takes ness' pk flash, it gains significant buffs to attack itself. kirbys pk flash can go far below the ledge, and it makes edge guards insanely easy since ness' PKT2 has such a predictable, linear trajectory. It can be hard for kirby to edge guard ness normally because of the slight invincibility and good hitbox on PKT2. taking pk flash gives kirby an extremely potent edgeguard option against ness. The other thing is that as far as inhale goes, its actually difficult to use in a good number of situations against ness, because of disjointed moves like upsmash and fair. ness' will also approach with pk fire a lot. using inhale will just get you punished easier a higher percentage of the time than other characters approaches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMEKqKrl2IM#t=375

the link above is a perfect example of the edge guarding that it opens kirby up to.
 

Phan7om

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i would like to note that when kirby takes ness' pk flash, it gains significant buffs to attack itself. kirbys pk flash can go far below the ledge, and it makes edge guards insanely easy since ness' PKT2 has such a predictable, linear trajectory. It can be hard for kirby to edge guard ness normally because of the slight invincibility and good hitbox on PKT2. taking pk flash gives kirby an extremely potent edgeguard option against ness. The other thing is that as far as inhale goes, its actually difficult to use in a good number of situations against ness, because of disjointed moves like upsmash and fair. ness' will also approach with pk fire a lot. using inhale will just get you punished easier a higher percentage of the time than other characters approaches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMEKqKrl2IM#t=375

the link above is a perfect example of the edge guarding that it opens kirby up to.
True... you right, and I even remember seeing that match go down lol. Thanks for the input man.
 

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Well... Brawl Lucas's nB didnt really have anything, the only real thing it did was allowed you to shoot from a platform at high speed if you ran off of it at the right time and autocancel as you touched the ground. PM Lucas' copy ability seems to not be as useful, at least to me, as Lucas' is to Kirby. You might be able to edgecancel or some shenanigans, but im not sure. There are some that dont really have any tricks. Some tricks that ive found (arent groundbreaking to the level of yours) include something like ZSS dash-jump cancel stunner, disable gliding, pikmin pluck b-reverse tricks, and kill setups like Ivysaur, DK, and Roy. I discoverd this stuff myself, but idk if anyone else did before me. (Except the kill setups of course). There is probably much more than this, but a lot of the abilities are not the same.
I meant Lucas' b wavebounces in Brawl, but nevermind.
 

lightdasher

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I really want Kirbys copy abilities to be buffed or changed, copying abilities is what makes Kirby, Kirby! I mean there are so many people who play Kirby, it's just filled with punches and kicks with the occasional Up B for recovery, I think PM is focusing on the wrong thing with Kirby, here's what I'd like to see for Kirbys copy ability buffs. I'll write it out the same way OP did.

Just something to point out before you read though, I spent a couple of hours on training mode testing each and every ability, so I know what I'm talking about here. (at least I hope I do)

Before I get into the abilities themselves, I'll start with the act of gaining an ability. Swallowing does 3%

3%

Spitting out does at least 9% so why does swallowing do less? You're technically crushing them, surely you'd do more?

First change I would do, make the spitting and swallowing do the same damage. Second change would be when you swallow and your opponent comes out, they should be pushed out a bit further so you don't get punished for successfully catching and swallowing them, maybe throw in an invincibility frame or two.

Now for the characters.

:mario2: Simply give it a little more damage and let the fireball last a bit longer, it's lifetime is shorter than Marios already. Marios fireball does 8%, give Kirby 10%

:luigi2: Exactly the same as above, more damage and longer lifetime, fireballs go shorter compared to Luigi.

:peach: Counter doesn't really work like you'd think in this match up, if we were to keep the counter, give it a shorter cooldown, else just give Kirby Peaches down B

:bowser2: Just needs a damage buff to make it a better use over inhale, works well for ledge guarding, in the current build of PM it doesn't weaken after prolonged use.

:dk2: Just needs increased range.

:diddy: Terrible, peanut just flies right over Diddys head, and his overcharge does no damage, lower the angle Kirby shoots, give them more damage and make Kirbys overcharge hurt, and you're set.

:yoshi2: I agree with OP, give Kirby a buffed Yoshi Up B instead.

:wario: Make Kirby throw his opponent out further, that's it.

:falcon: Super Armor like in Balanced Brawl, decreased start up time, or like op suggested, Side-B

:wolf: Yes, I like OPs idea of giving Kirby his Shine.

:fox: Shine or make Kirbys Fox lasers like Falcos.

:falco: I like OPs idea here too, so I'll leave this.

:popo: 2 Icicles or their down-B for Kirby please.

:zelda: Increased size and remove that weird lag Kirby gets from it.

:sheik: Just make it the same as PM Sheiks really, currently it's Brawls B.

:link2: More damage so if you do hit link with it it's worth it, or boomerang.

:toonlink: Replace with Down B or the chargeable up B. No really.

:ganondorf: Replace with Down B, that's all I've got to say on this.

:mewtwopm: aerial knock back like Mewtwo has please.

:lucario: Give Kirby Lucarios cancels, and maybe even give Kirby the AB Lucario can do. Else let it do more damage.

:jigglypuff: Replace with Side B or rest, either of the two will work for Kirby, preferably side B though.

:pikachu2: More damage, slightly more speed, land canceling.

:squirtle: Make it do damage and able to store the charge by moving, or replace it with Down B

:ivysaur: Just give Kirby the healing thing and that's it, if Kirby wants to shoot another solar beam, you're gonna have to get rid of it and try to get another inhale.

:charizard: Make it either a buffed Bowser or replace with Side B

:samus2: Same thoughts with OP

:zerosuitsamus: Damage increase and actually make the stun the same duration as Samus'

:lucas: Down B or Power up.

:ness2: Let it work the same as PM Ness' PK Flash.

:pit: Damage up, this is all.

:metaknight: It's Brawl Metaknights B, does it need a buff or a nerf?

:dedede: more damage, shoot out further, aerial movement like Kirbys default inhale, done.

:ike: Super armor upon releasing B, not while charging, also aerial movement while in air.

:marth: Either increase range, or give Kirby a faster counter

:roypm: increased ranged, that is all.

:olimar: Make the Pikmin latch on the opponent when thrown.

:rob: more knockback on a fully charged shot, is all.

:gw: damage increase, that is all.

:snake: I'm with OP...

:sonic: make it like Sonics PM B, just more damage on hit, or make it Side B.

Remember, you're fighting Kirby, not a damn mirror match.
 
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Phan7om

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I really want Kirbys copy abilities to be buffed or changed, copying abilities is what makes Kirby, Kirby! I mean there are so many people who play Kirby, it's just filled with punches and kicks with the occasional Up B for recovery, I think PM is focusing on the wrong thing with Kirby, here's what I'd like to see for Kirbys copy ability buffs. I'll write it out the same way OP did.

Just something to point out before you read though, I spent a couple of hours on training mode testing each and every ability, so I know what I'm talking about here. (at least I hope I do)

Before I get into the abilities themselves, I'll start with the act of gaining an ability. Swallowing does 3%

3%

Spitting out does at least 9% so why does swallowing do less? You're technically crushing them, surely you'd do more?

First change I would do, make the spitting and swallowing do the same damage. Second change would be when you swallow and your opponent comes out, they should be pushed out a bit further so you don't get punished for successfully catching and swallowing them, maybe throw in an invincibility frame or two.

Now for the characters.

:mario2: Simply give it a little more damage and let the fireball last a bit longer, it's lifetime is shorter than Marios already. Marios fireball does 8%, give Kirby 10%

:luigi2: Exactly the same as above, more damage and longer lifetime, fireballs go shorter compared to Luigi.

:peach: Counter doesn't really work like you'd think in this match up, if we were to keep the counter, give it a shorter cooldown, else just give Kirby Peaches down B

:bowser2: Just needs a damage buff to make it a better use over inhale, works well for ledge guarding, in the current build of PM it doesn't weaken after prolonged use.

:dk2: Just needs increased range.

:diddy: Terrible, peanut just flies right over Diddys head, and his overcharge does no damage, lower the angle Kirby shoots, give them more damage and make Kirbys overcharge hurt, and you're set.

:yoshi2: I agree with OP, give Kirby a buffed Yoshi Up B instead.

:wario: Make Kirby throw his opponent out further, that's it.

:falcon: Super Armor like in Balanced Brawl, decreased start up time, or like op suggested, Side-B

:wolf: Yes, I like OPs idea of giving Kirby his Shine.

:fox: Shine or make Kirbys Fox lasers like Falcos.

:falco: I like OPs idea here too, so I'll leave this.

:popo: 2 Icicles or their down-B for Kirby please.

:zelda: Increased size and remove that weird lag Kirby gets from it.

:sheik: Just make it the same as PM Sheiks really, currently it's Brawls B.

:link2: More damage so if you do hit link with it it's worth it, or boomerang.

:toonlink: Replace with Down B or the chargeable up B. No really.

:ganondorf: Replace with Down B, that's all I've got to say on this.

:mewtwopm: aerial knock back like Mewtwo has please.

:lucario: Give Kirby Lucarios cancels, and maybe even give Kirby the AB Lucario can do. Else let it do more damage.

:jigglypuff: Replace with Side B or rest, either of the two will work for Kirby, preferably side B though.

:pikachu2: More damage, slightly more speed, land canceling.

:squirtle: Make it do damage and able to store the charge by moving, or replace it with Down B

:ivysaur: Just give Kirby the healing thing and that's it, if Kirby wants to shoot another solar beam, you're gonna have to get rid of it and try to get another inhale.

:charizard: Make it either a buffed Bowser or replace with Side B

:samus2: Same thoughts with OP

:zerosuitsamus: Damage increase and actually make the stun the same duration as Samus'

:lucas: Down B or Power up.

:ness2: Let it work the same as PM Ness' PK Flash.

:pit: Damage up, this is all.

:metaknight: It's Brawl Metaknights B, does it need a buff or a nerf?

:dedede: more damage, shoot out further, aerial movement like Kirbys default inhale, done.

:ike: Super armor upon releasing B, not while charging, also aerial movement while in air.

:marth: Either increase range, or give Kirby a faster counter

:roypm: increased ranged, that is all.

:olimar: Make the Pikmin latch on the opponent when thrown.

:rob: more knockback on a fully charged shot, is all.

:gw: damage increase, that is all.

:snake: I'm with OP...

:sonic: make it like Sonics PM B, just more damage on hit, or make it Side B.

Remember, you're fighting Kirby, not a damn mirror match.
Wow man I love this! Thanks for the input. Yeah, there are many changes that could easily be made to the copy abilities to make it more useful. Im glad someone else thinks the same way. And yeah, your changes were a lot smarter lol, I kinda got carried away. The only ones I kinda disagree with is your opinion on Ivysaur... healing doesnt work that well in a Melee-ish game like PM. Maybe if he just healed when he got it, but charging it just to heal doesnt really work with Kirby since the power could just come right out of him. He would have to heal a great deal to compensate for that. Another one is olimar. Attatching pikmin is good i guess, but Olimar's purple pikmin when thrown never stuck on, and its one of the best ones to throw. To always be able to throw pikmin with a hitbox is fundamentally better imo.
 
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Ragna22

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I'm surprised you didn't place Dedede's at equal level with Kirby's because it's pretty much just the same thing as just spitting out an opponent as normal Kirby.
 

lightdasher

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I'm surprised you didn't place Dedede's at equal level with Kirby's because it's pretty much just the same thing as just spitting out an opponent as normal Kirby.
It's slower than Kirbys default and doesn't even do more damage, nor can you move in the air while using it.
 

Phan7om

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I'm surprised you didn't place Dedede's at equal level with Kirby's because it's pretty much just the same thing as just spitting out an opponent as normal Kirby.
Yeah just as lightdash said. If they changed it (which they most likely will since D3 can move around in the air) and they made it just as fast/short as Kirby's it would probably be one of the "best" ones to copy. There's a lot of distinct factors that determine where i think they should go... such as how safe the move is, the range of the opponent compared to kirby, the usefulness of the move itself, if kirby can use the move the same if not better than the original, and even knowing that the opponent can use the move back against you. D3s falls into a weird category, its good if you know you can hit with it but isnt as safe as normal inhale. I tried to explain any confusion in the spoilers i put in there.
 
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lightdasher

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I want it so that if you push a direction after pressing b after inhaling someone, you get their B move, like if you push down b after inhaling link you copy bombs, or if you inhale Ike and press side b you get Ikes side b ect
 

Phan7om

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I want it so that if you push a direction after pressing b after inhaling someone, you get their B move, like if you push down b after inhaling link you copy bombs, or if you inhale Ike and press side b you get Ikes side b ect
Thatd be pretty cool, probably near impossible to program tho. This probably wont happen, but itd be funny to think if Kirby could copy like Snakes' up-b or Sonic's up-b and then use Kirby's own up-b afterwards. Too broken! #flanned lmao
 
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\Apples

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I think Samus' ability is placed well, but I recommend an addendum for the explanation provided which just mentions that if Kirby can charge it while Samus is taking her sweet time recovering, he's rewarded with a badly needed long-range punish option versus a character who vastly out-ranges him.
 
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