Peach Vs Snake take 2

[Dark.Pch]

Ok this has been on my mind for a while now. I think Peach Vs snake needs to be looked into More. I am starting to think that this match up COULD be even. I have played alot of snakes and know that match up. Here is the list of good snakes players I have played offline:

JeasihTG (something like that)
Ether
NinjaLinks
Wigz
Nuro
Gunx
G-Reg

I have been thinking and reviewing this match up alot, with help from vids and just breaking this down into parts. While others think this is crazy (Snake players mostly but of course they would....) I wanna talk about this. as to why I think I could be even. I spoke to NinjaLink about this and he kinda agreed with what I was saying when we talked about Peach Vs Snake. I think I can get a few more good players to back me up on this too.

The Disadvantage Vs Snake:
- he is good and field control. You will have to be aware about the field and him at the same time. He has some nasty set ups
- he can kill you welll and has many options for it
- He can force you to stay away from him or approach him. Pretty much he can control the match.
- he can kill your air game but not by alot.
- He can edguard you well unless you are high up coming to the stage.
- can camp you.
- his moves are pretty fast and have priority at some points.
- He can pressure you well.
- Hard to kill.
- Ground game is better than yours

The advantage Vs Snake:

- Can edguard him well.
- Can pressure him really well.
- air game is better
- Have more combat speed then he does.
- Gimp off the up-B
- Once he is in the air he can be pretty hopeless and not too hard to hit.
- Glide tossing can beat his dash cancel upsmash. or just toss one or Jab him.
- Get damage of of him well.
- turnips used right can screw over his ground game.
- More ways to approach

Situation- Camping Snake
How to deal with it- I have actually camped a snake when he was grenade camping me. and it was going even. Here is the thing though; you need ALOT of patients And if you don't have that, don't bother reading on:

The clock ran out and he won by a few % When he was grenade camping me I did not rush him. i just tossed turnips both air and ground while keeping my distance.

You can send more turnips to Snake than he can with grenades, he can only launch 2 at you. and one does not explode till like 3/4 sec. And if he tosses one early what I like to do is toss a turnip and him then the grenade soon after. and a turnip to follow the grenade. This can screw his camping. Also his shield will be eaten up alot more than yours. Thats the bad think about a camping with snake if the Peach is patient."

 

[deepseadiva]

I'm certain Peach has an advantage on Final Destination.

Otherwise Peach beats him in the air and off stage, can avoid mines and traps, can punish a good amount of his ground game, and has decent combos on him.

She can't kill him though. Like at all. While he can, and rather easily.

I consider it even - slightly in Peach's favor honestly, but I understand no one agreeing with me.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Ok, Lets take this one step at a time.. Lets start out by looking and what is bad about this match up Vs snake. And we will not move on until we have all the bad stuff down. Next we move onto the good.

- he is good and field control. You will have to be aware about the field and him at the same time. He has some nasty set ups
- he can kill you welll and has many options for it
- He can force you to stay away from him or approach him. Pretty much he can control the match.
- he can kill your air game but not by alot.
- He can edguard you well unless you are high up coming to the stage.
- can camp you.
- his moves are pretty fast and have priority at some points
- He can pressure you well.
- Hard to kill.
- Ground game is better than yours



That is all I got for now, any thing else to add to this?

 

[BentoBox]

Peach does not have the advantage on FD if all the Snake does is mortar slide away and spam nades. You're not going to out-camp him and his ground game is better than yours.

But yeah, I too don't really understand why this is considered a terrible match up for Peach. The matches that I lose are mostly due to me not noticing C4s.

About killing Snake, if you can get him off-stage, Peach has like the longest effective edgeguarding range with her turnips and float, so take advantage of that and chase him off.

Fun fact: Peach's jab has as much range as Snake's u-tilt and it comes out faster. When in doubt, JAB MOAR. SNAKE IS TRASH.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Peach does not have the advantage on FD if all the Snake does is mortar slide away and spam nades. You're not going to out-camp him and his ground game is better than yours.

But yeah, I too don't really understand why this is considered a terrible match up for Peach. The matches that I lose are mostly due to me not noticing C4s.

About killing Snake, if you can get him off-stage, Peach has like the longest effective edgeguarding range with her turnips and float, so take advantage of that and chase him off.

Fun fact: Peach's jab has as much range as Snake's u-tilt and it comes out faster. When in doubt, JAB MOAR. SNAKE IS TRASH.

Nice bento but lets keep this organized. for now we are talking about what is bad about this match up. I made a list to start it off. you have anything to add?

 

[BentoBox]

Hmm, let's see.

-Amazing stage control. He can cover up most of your options with his projectiles and punish you hard if you do happen to go for the only seemingly viable option that you have left. (see Ally for more info, etc)

-Extremely heavy, extremely strong and above par range. While Peach does have moves that do come out as fast and/or do have as much range, they are not nearly as threatening; Snake can kill you with pretty much every move in his arsenal. Also, weight wise, he'll prolly live up to 50~60% more than Peach will, and if your Fair happens to be decayed, getting that kill is really hard unless you manage to edgeguard successfully (meaning that he could not recover high and away like snakes usually do).

-Easily outcamps Peach with grenades. Even when floating away in the air, Snake can cook a grenade jump and throw it at you, thus effectively forcing you to approach him at all times... His ground game his better than yours, and he can snipe you down with his tilts as well.

-Not easily punished due to grenades/mortars~

-You can't DI his f-tilt (the first hit) $#%%#!

-Ally.

All I can think of for now.

edit: Baiting with her float is pretty much my most treasured tool in this match-up.

 

[deepseadiva]

Peach does not have the advantage on FD if all the Snake does is mortar slide away and spam nades. You're not going to out-camp him and his ground game is better than yours.

Snake is in his element in small and low arenas. He can manipulate platforms much more effectively than any other character and excels in position control. To counteract this you remove these aspects and go with a wide open space. Everything is in plain sight, nothing for Snake to take advantage of, a large airspace for you to control and move though.

What I'm saying is Snake loses a lot on FD, while Peach can punish more easily. While you can't outcamp him, you can answer it. While mortar sliding will hinder her movement, you have a lot of alternative space to choose from.

This is all IMO of course.

 

[Praxis]

I dunno; campy Snakes can cause Peach problems.

The reality is that, with the difficulty Peach has in killing, you have to be doing two to three times more damage than the Snake is doing back to you to win. While I quite enjoy this matchup and tend to do well, it doesn't seem like it'd be, on paper, Peach's advantage.

Still, it's nowhere near as bad as G&W or MK.

I need to work on killing Snake now actually, I've been having trouble with it recently. I think my moveset isn't catching the local Snakes by surprise anymore and they're DIing way better xD Even then, I've never been two stocked by DSF's Snake in an MM...

 

[Dark.Pch]

So much for keeping this organized.......

I'll say what I said in the other thread about kepping sbakes then I am moving on.

"I have actually camped a snake when he was grenade camping e. and it was going even. Here is the thing though; you need ALOT of patients And if you don't have that, don't bother reading on:

The clock ran out and he won by a few % When he was grenade camping me I did not rush him. i just tossed turnips both air and ground while keeping my distance.

You can send more turnips to Snake than he can with grenades, he can only launch 2 at you. and one does not explode till like 3/4 sec. And if he tosses one early what I like to do is toss a turnip and him then the grenade soon after. and a turnip to follow the grenade. This can screw his camping. Also his shield will be eaten up alot more than yours. Thats the bad think about a camping with snake if the Peach is patient."

Ok now if no one has anything else to add about the bad on snake, time for the good.

- Can edguard him well.
- Can pressure him really well.
- air game is better
- Have more combat speed then he does.
- Gimp off the up-B
- Once he is in the air he can be pretty hopeless and not too hard to hit.
- Glide tossing can beat his dash cancel upsmash. or just toss one or Jab him.
- Get damage of of him well.
- turnips used right can screw over his ground game.

Thats about all I got, anything else that I am missing and peoplewanna add?

 

[BentoBox]

- Once he is in the air he can be pretty hopeless and not too hard to hit.

I would just like to say that his air game is not to be underestimated. While his moves may not come out as fast, rendering them useless close to the ground, high up in the air, I'm almost positive he has more priority and his b-air/u-air/n-air do HURT a lot. His B-air's hitbox extends from the tip of his feet all the way to his head. His n-air will probably kill you if you don't DI appropriately (up and towards, I believe) and deals 20ish, and if he's under you and manages to bait an airdodge, u-air is a fantastic vertical killer~

 

[Dark.Pch]

I would just like to say that his air game is not to be underestimated. While his moves may not come out as fast, rendering them useless close to the ground, high up in the air, I'm almost positive he has more priority and his b-air/u-air/n-air do HURT a lot. His B-air's hitbox extends from the tip of his feet all the way to his head. His n-air will probably kill you if you don't DI appropriately (up and towards, I believe) and deals 20ish, and if he's under you and manages to bait an airdodge, u-air is a fantastic vertical killer~

See that comes with a Price. He lags on all his air moves and they can leave him open. thats why even good snakes dont test snake in the air so much. it is risky for him. One of his weaknesses is being in the air and peach can abuse him well.

 

[SleeplessInKyoto]

I play against one of the best European Snake players nearly every week and i know this matchup really well.

Peach's floatiness and her actual float in general counters many of Snake's moves. F-tilt and Jabs are useless if you're in the air, Grenades planted on the floor can be floated over, U-Tilt wont hit if you space ur float properly, the Nikita can also be floated over (and ur 2nd jump can be used to quickly F-air him before he can put it away) his N-air can be DI'd out of very easily before the smash hit comes in. His B-air, if it misses, you can run straight into him and U-smash sweetspot his belly and kill him upwards at around 105%

You see the thing about Snake is that his air game is probably one of the worst in the game. So if he decides to camp with grenades and explosives, thats too bad, because you can camp with your float and there really isnt much he can do about it.

When it comes to grenades, you've got to know the pattern. Snake has a few options to throw grenades. If he shield drops grenades or throws it gently upwards, they arent much danger to you. Rather those type of grenades are to bait your attacks out in the hope that you'll smack the grenade and cause damage to yourself.

The real ones are the arc-throw grenade and the strong-forward throw. With the arc-throw i strongly reccomend you jump in the air and try to catch these grenades before they explode. Even if the grenade has been cooked - by jumping into airdodge you will dodge the explosion, or if it hasnt been cooked properly, you can perfect shield the explosion once you have caught it.

With the strong throw grenade, you can use turnips to block them. Simply throw a turnip when he throws the grenade and they will clank - then that grenade becomes useless (especially if it has been cooked).

True i agree the biggest dilemma of when it comes to Snake is killing him. But because of his Cypher and the direction it moves in - it is very very predictable to aerial him out of it. Clever Snake's will recover high and drop to airdodges - with these strategy you need to use turnips to mess up his airdodging pattern and then juggle him in the air. Ultimately F-Air is going to be your most reliable kill move.

And incase anyone hasnt learn how to Cypher Gimp - that is crucial. Half of my kills have come from these gimps.

 

[Iwan]

Maybe I missed someone posting it in here, but I didn't spot it. Snake is really, really susceptible to Up throw.

Next time you play a snake, try grabbing>>>Up Throw>>>follow to where they'll land>>>>grab>>>>>Up throw again.....rinse. Repeat.

Snake only has so many options against you tracking his landing spot and re-grabbing him. He can either use one of his terribly laggy aerials (which you can shield grab), air dodge (which you can punish/grab on landing), etc....snake's options while landing aren't very broad. His best option is to drop C4 on the way down, but even that can be perfect shielded (as praxis said).

Peach can make it a really big pain in the a** for Snake to land back on the stage safely once he's in the air. Even at higher percents, tracking his landing trajectory with float can punish a snake player really well. Jump up, float, and track which direction they're going to move in.

Once again, the snake player can either airdodge (try and bait an airdodge and you can punish with nair REALLY well), use a long start up/tons of ending lag aerial that you can airdodge (and then punish with nair)....or, after you've gotten in the players head: Just mess with them.

Good thread, I feel like a ton of peach players fear this match up too much when they shouldn't. Is it in snake's favor? Definitely. Is it as bad as what a lot of people think? Not in my opinion.

Keep discussion going =D

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Don't underestimate Snake's air game - it can be pretty lethal

Fair is a incredibly powerful spike. Uair and Bair have stupidly large hitboxes and both have more priority than Peach's aerials (I think? I know Bair has good priority...)

A full jumped Nair can be laglessly landed if my memory serves me well and I've been caught out a few times when trying to Float towards Snake (make sure you DI out of it though)

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Snake can pull out a grenade to interrupt down air combos (after the first one) so those don't actually exist on a Snake that is smart.

 

[Eddie G]

Snake can pull out a grenade to interrupt down air combos (after the first one) so those don't actually exist on a Snake that is smart.

I can't even begin to say how true this is.

 

[BentoBox]

I can't really remember the last time I pulled off a d-air combo on anybody for that matter. Those that were all the rage a few months ago lol

 

[Iwan]

Don't underestimate Snake's air game - it can be pretty lethal

Fair is a incredibly powerful spike. Uair and Bair have stupidly large hitboxes and both have more priority than Peach's aerials (I think? I know Bair has good priority...)

A full jumped Nair can be laglessly landed if my memory serves me well and I've been caught out a few times when trying to Float towards Snake (make sure you DI out of it though)

Of course; you shouldn't ever underestimate any move in brawl, honestly, and snake's aerials are strong, long reaching and powerful.

However, they DO INDEED have very long animations and are from my experience, easily punished. You just have to bait, predict, and observe.

It's getting snake into the air that proves to be difficult against a great snake player; good snake players usually control the stage tremendously.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Snake can pull out a grenade to interrupt down air combos (after the first one) so those don't actually exist on a Snake that is smart.

Thats why I don't bother Dairing Snake when he has a grenade. You can still Dair him and all, just don't do it when he has a grenade.

 

[NinjaLink]

u can still dair the top of his shield because the grenade drops on the ground.

 

[Dark.Pch]

u can still dair the top of his shield because the grenade drops on the ground.

But as soon as he shields and you hit it, it will explode before hitting the ground

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Thats why I don't bother Dairing Snake when he has a grenade. You can still Dair him and all, just don't do it when he has a grenade.

You mis understand. He can pull the grenade AFTER the down air has been initiated before you follow it up with an attack. Effectively, I don't bother down airing him more than once, because on the second one you will take explosion damage which hurts you more than it does him.

 

[Eddie G]

You mis understand. He can pull the grenade AFTER the down air has been initiated before you follow it up with an attack. Effectively, I don't bother down airing him more than once, because on the second one you will take explosion damage which hurts you more than it does him.

So would you suggest following up with a simple nair/fair instead to avoid the threat of nade damage? That's what I do on Snake but if there's another option for racking up some damage, I'm all eyes.

Drop from a dair into a f-tilt/u-tilt maybe?

 

[BentoBox]

Dropping from a d-air just gets you in range of the nade's blast radius. I usually retreat after the first d-air, Snake will be forced to camp his shield till the nade goes off, and you can exploit his shield stun by grabbing him or w/e~

 

[Eddie G]

Dropping from a d-air just gets you in range of the nade's blast radius. I usually retreat after the first d-air, Snake will be forced to camp his shield till the nade goes off, and you can exploit his shield stun by grabbing him or w/e~

I see, thanks for the input. I suppose I'll just stick to following up on the dair with an in-and-out fair, or just retreat, land, and glidetoss/grab. Regardless, thanks a bunch ^.^

 

[EdreesesPieces]

If you see him pull one out after a down air, just retreat and get ready to punish him after the explosion, he'll take damage. You have to recognize it though.

 

[Eddie G]

If you see him pull one out after a down air, just retreat and get ready to punish him after the explosion, he'll take damage. You have to recognize it though.

Will do, thanks dude.

I'm looking forward to meeting you at Genesis as well. I'll most likely be hanging around with Sky and/or Synth.

 

[deepseadiva]

I might be going to Genesis as well. Sounds like fun, but I dunno - I'm still deciding.

 

[BentoBox]

Lol, I might be coming too. I'd pay 400ish just to get there >.< lol

 

[hova]

match up is in Snake's favor

it's not a bad match up and Peach has all the tools to wreck Snake, but if the Snake player knows the match up they have a clear advantage

 

[NinjaLink]

But as soon as he shields and you hit it, it will explode before hitting the ground

dair has an extended hitbox. If u go high enough, it wont make the grenade explode. Not sure if its practical or not.

 

[hova]

dairing their shield while they are holding a grenade is mad good.

fuks up their timing and if they continue to shield while the grenade explodes it pretty much eats their whole shield making blocking worthless against any of peaches aerials

Snake can always roll back, but it's good to have Snake in a retreating position

 

[NinjaLink]

dairing their shield while they are holding a grenade is mad good.

fuks up their timing and if they continue to shield while the grenade explodes it pretty much eats their whole shield making blocking worthless against any of peaches aerials

Snake can always roll back, but it's good to have Snake in a retreating position

good point. Shield breaker. If they roll i'd just fast fall after the dair and throw the grenade if needed.

 

[BentoBox]

If he does roll back though, he'll drop the nade, hence forcing you to chase his roll so as not to be in the blast's radius or move back yourself~ And if you're going to chase him, be sure to get something in before he can u-tilt you~

 

[Dark.Pch]

This is good stuff, this can makes his granade camping not much of a problem.

If snake rolls behind you, you can just bair him easy. So they will motsly roll away, whicj is good cause you have a free grenade for you. If you got them pinned to a corner, it is good ofr us. He will mostly not have much of a choice but to roll back. And thats a bair air for you. Freaking awsome.

 

[SleeplessInKyoto]

If snake rolls behind you, you can just bair him easy. So they will motsly roll away, whicj is good cause you have a free grenade for you. If you got them pinned to a corner, it is good ofr us. He will mostly not have much of a choice but to roll back. And thats a bair air for you. Freaking awsome.

Nuh-uh. You're forgetting F-Tilt or even the jabs. If he rolls back, you can guarentee he'll tilt you away in self defense. These will send you reeling (he can even F-tilt you with the first hit to stun you so the grenade blasts behind you, catching you in the explosion) approaching Snake from the front is never, ever a good idea.

If snake pulls out a grenade while you are in a D-air combo, drop your float instantly and run to grab him. After all the only thing he can do is throw the grenade, shield or roll out of the way. If he tries to throw the grenade or shield his nade explosion, you'll simply catch him in your grab, slap him away then retreat before the nade explodes. I've done this many times before btw.

If he rolls out of the way, that's just great because you've set up another opportunity for D-air **** or you can mix it up and dash attack him - whatever. The key thing is using float to pressurise him to get him to move the way you want. Stage control is useless in the face of Peach's float.

 

[NinjaLink]

Nuh-uh. You're forgetting F-Tilt or even the jabs. If he rolls back, you can guarentee he'll tilt you away in self defense. These will send you reeling (he can even F-tilt you with the first hit to stun you so the grenade blasts behind you, catching you in the explosion) approaching Snake from the front is never, ever a good idea.

If snake pulls out a grenade while you are in a D-air combo, drop your float instantly and run to grab him. After all the only thing he can do is throw the grenade, shield or roll out of the way. If he tries to throw the grenade or shield his nade explosion, you'll simply catch him in your grab, slap him away then retreat before the nade explodes. I've done this many times before btw.

If he rolls out of the way, that's just great because you've set up another opportunity for D-air **** or you can mix it up and dash attack him - whatever. The key thing is using float to pressurise him to get him to move the way you want. Stage control is useless in the face of Peach's float.

guess u dont fight snakes much. Snake can just drop the grenade and go about his business. He doesnt have to roll. He cant ftilt peach out of her float at a certain height if u space properly.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Nuh-uh. You're forgetting F-Tilt or even the jabs. If he rolls back, you can guarentee he'll tilt you away in self defense. These will send you reeling (he can even F-tilt you with the first hit to stun you so the grenade blasts behind you, catching you in the explosion) approaching Snake from the front is never, ever a good idea.

If snake pulls out a grenade while you are in a D-air combo, drop your float instantly and run to grab him. After all the only thing he can do is throw the grenade, shield or roll out of the way. If he tries to throw the grenade or shield his nade explosion, you'll simply catch him in your grab, slap him away then retreat before the nade explodes. I've done this many times before btw.

If he rolls out of the way, that's just great because you've set up another opportunity for D-air **** or you can mix it up and dash attack him - whatever. The key thing is using float to pressurise him to get him to move the way you want. Stage control is useless in the face of Peach's float.

At the right Shight, snake is not touching you with his Jabs or even Ftilts. This happens when you space Dairs on him, his dound attacks are not touching you. Closest thing for him hitting you in this case is his uptilt. Thats why you see smart snakes uptilting Peach.

And how in the world is stage control useless Cause of Peach's down air. You forget you have 2 things to pay attention too. Snake and the stage with his traps. If Snake won't kill you, the stage will. They stage set ups and snake alone is what makes him a pain. And not just for Peach, everyone.

And you for get, If you Dair his shield and he has a grenade, he can just roll away from you. You are not just gonna grab him like that easy Also it is not all about Dairs on Snake. You play that typical Peach, Snake will beat the hell out of you. Snake has ways to deal with the Dair.